Transcript

>> Speaker A: We inform religious freedom is about people.

>> Rick Green: Of faith being able to live out.

>> Speaker A: Their faith, live out their convictions, no.

>> Stephen McDowell: Matter where they are.

>> Rick Green: We equip sacred honor is the courage to speak truth, to live out your free speech.

>> Speaker A: We also rejoice in our sufferings because.

>> Stephen McDowell: We know that suffering produces perseverance, perseverance, character and character.

>> Jeff Chamblee: This is at the Corps on American Family Radio.

>> Rick Green: Welcome to at the Core with Walker Waldman and Rick Greene. I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution coach. Thanks so much for joining me today. We've got some great, great interviews for you today. I've got, Fr. Frank Pavone with us. We're going to be talking about the whole passing of the Pope. I actually had him on Wall Builders, I guess, really just the day after, the Pope died. And, you know, some pretty, I've been pretty blunt about, the negative impact that this Pope, actually, the culture. And so we'll be asking Father Frank about that and also, just talking about, some of the revival around the world. Just a lot of cool stuff. So we got Father Frank with us. Some other interviews when we come back from the break. But let's jump in with Father Frank Pavone here on at the Core with Walker Wildmon and Rick Green.

>> Father Frank Pavone: It's a pleasure. God bless you, Rick and all you guys at Wall Builders.

>> Rick Green: It just seems like there's good news everywhere we turn. Young men interested in the word of God more than ever. Baptisms on college campuses, but not just here in the US Good stuff happening in France as well.

>> Father Frank Pavone: Yes, in France, in the uk, in various places in Europe. there's been over these, last few years, a real upsurge. And I think, in the last several years it's been like doubled, in France over the last decade in adult baptism. So what we're seeing is a return to the, the waters of life. Right, that Christ has offered us. And, you know, many people speculate, of course, what the. What is the reason for this? What's really going on. Something I've always said, and I noticed that a number of the articles on this, pick up on the same theme, is that, you know, young people, you could say this is true of young people. It's also true of adults, that we need meaning. We need meaning in life just as much as we need food and water and oxygen. And we're living in a world, and you and I deal with these conflicts all the time, that has explicitly rejected truth. If you reject truth, you reject meaning.

>> Rick Green: Yeah.

>> Father Frank Pavone: And, you know, you look at a woke culture that says there is no such thing as truth. We, can redefine reality. A man could become a woman. A woman can become a man. A baby in the womb isn't really a baby unless you say that it is. It's all upside down, inside out. And after a while, the human spirit gets tired of that because it places on the human spirit too much of a burden. We're not meant to bear the burden of being the creators of truth. God never intended that for us. And so people want to say, look, I want to rely on a truth that's bigger than me. I want to rely on meaning that I didn't have to create all by myself, as if life were just one big creative writing exercise. No, I want to see what God has put into the universe. And Rick, I think that's behind what we're seeing here. People just clinging to and trying to find the source of truth and meaning.

>> Rick Green: That is so good, because you're right. I mean, that statement where there is no truth, there is no meaning. Regardless of whether you're a young person, you know, you're in that 18, 19, 20, trying to figure out, what's life about, why am I here? Or Even if you're 50 or 60, and you've spent your life doing what you thought was good for you or your family or whatever, and you're contemplating, well, if there is no truth and there is no meaning, I've spent the last 30 or 40 years for no reason, and what happens after I die? I mean, it becomes a very, you just be desperate, depressed. You're looking, as you said, literally, for meaning. So the lack of truth means the lack of meaning. And so people are searching. And thankfully, the harvest right now is just off the charts that searching. And now the freedom to speak, to share the gospel. There's just this real resurgence right now.

>> Father Frank Pavone: When you look at the freedom of speech being so well defended, especially right here in America, what we do, of course, is affecting the whole world. You look at X as a platform, right? And just this, you know, the backlash, the beautiful backlash that American voters have put in place against the canceled culture and the woke culture and the weaponization of government, the censorship, whether, on campuses or on social media or anywhere, even in churches. It's a, you know, it puts a burden, doesn't it, on the, on the clergy and the pastors. You and I both work with pastors. We try to light the fire in their hearts, right? And it's like, given everything we're saying, given that the. I think of it as Ezekiel preaching to the dry bones, right? They got the dry bones there. And God says, preach to the bones. I say to clergy in my pastor's seminars, I said, well, guys, if you've ever felt like your congregation wasn't listening to you, just look, the field of dry bones, you know, Ezekiel was in that position, but. And the bones came to life. What I'm saying is now pastors should be more motivated than ever for a clear, full throated proclamation of the gospel, in season, out of season, convenient or inconvenient. Because when the Lord said that the harvest is ripe, that has perhaps never been more true than right now.

>> Rick Green: Amen. Amen. And maybe even, you know, do a little bit of a, not a little bit, a lot of a burden and responsibility to say, these people are hungry, they're looking for answers. Now is the time to speak truth and not miss this opportunity. Not just strike the arrows three times, but as many as possible, so that we can actually reap, that harvest and answer those questions that they have. Father, I wanted to ask you about the. Even because you mentioned backlash and the weaponization of government, I mean, all of the prosecutions of the pro lifers and all the things that happened over the last few years, it seems like because the left went so far that almost it helped to bring about this harvest, I think it woke up a lot of people to go, wait a minute, I was okay with live and let live, but this is not live and let live. And do you think that had anything to do with it? It kind of opening people's eyes?

>> Father Frank Pavone: I think that had a lot to do with it. You know, there's a pendulum in politics where things have to get bad enough for people to say, no, no, no, no, this is not what I meant. Like, take, for example, the issue I deal with all the time, Abortion. Right. So in the pro life movement, it was the extremism of the Democrats on abortion that got a lot of pro choice people to say, no, no, no, this is not for me. When they insist on abortion in the seventh, eighth, ninth month of pregnancy, when they set up an abortion van outside the Democrat National Convention, pro choice people, I mean, most of the people who take that label, right? I mean, we don't, acknowledge that any abortion is acceptable. But people who take a pro choice label are usually simply saying that, well, you know, in the case of a necessity, there should be a little bit of wiggle room. It should be available in certain instances. But These are not people who are like the Democrat party, apostles, ah, of abortion.

>> Speaker A: Right.

>> Father Frank Pavone: And this is where the backlash too. And I think this goes to, back to our original question. Part of the reason we see that, there's a surge in baptisms and a surge in church attendance and what's going on here, I see it reflected in my work in the pro life arena in what I call, Rick, the dead end rule. And that is if you go down a dead end road and you ignore the signs that say it's a dead end, you will soon learn by personal experience that it's a dead end. That's correct. And it's like people can ignore the signs being the word of God, the teachings of the Christian, faith over the centuries that, yeah, hey, abortion is wrong, it's harmful, it's bad, and people can, they can ignore those signs. Well, they're gonna learn, and they are learning by personal experience how devastating it is. And I think especially a lot of the younger people, you know, not only is it that their first pictures of themselves are when they were in the womb, but it's also the tears that they see on the faces of friends and relatives who have been through abortion. And it's devastated their lives. Didn't only devastate their babies, devastated them. And our young people are seeing this and they're saying, wait a minute, this can't be a good thing. Look at how it's destroying my friends and my relatives who've been through it. This is part of what's happening and this is gonna happen. And I think at an accelerated pace with the whole gay and transgender agenda. Aren't we seeing that already? How people are tempted to suicide or their life just goes outta control, they can't have meaningful relationships anymore. and it's like, this is the dead end rule. And when you hit that dead end, you know, one thing that all of us need to know and remind ourselves of each day, you come to the conclusion, I need a savior.

>> Rick Green: Amen.

>> Father Frank Pavone: And if the clergy are preaching, we've got a savior.

>> Rick Green: Yes.

>> Father Frank Pavone: Then what are you going to see? You're going to see more crowds coming to those waters of baptism. Ah.

>> Rick Green: so good. That's so good. I was thinking, as you were telling that story, I was thinking about, you know, Joe Rogan and Elon Musk and all these people that, you know, three years ago called themselves leftist and, and they were totally for the agenda that said just let everybody do whatever they want. And of course Elon in his own personal life with his son and the transition thing and, And. And literally says that he lost his son. you know, Joe Rogan, with the wake up of, wow, this whole, you know, libertarian idea of let everybody do whatever they want has now led us to men and women's sports and all this, that getting to the dead end. And they're seeing that. So they're. They're not quite to Christ yet, but the path is there. And if the church is, as you said, I mean, if we're preaching the gospel and we're telling people here is the answer as they get to that dead end, they're going to be looking for the U turn. They're going to be looking for, how to get to the good stuff. So what a wonderful, wonderful time to be alive and to have the truth to share with, so many people. I can't, you know, and of course, as we said, you know, with the baptisms in France, the growth all across the country is just incredible. I can't let you go without, you know, we scheduled this interview, obviously not knowing that the Pope would pass. what do you see for the Catholic Church, in this next season? I mean, I think you and I are close enough friends that we can be blunt. I was pretty blunt on a program last night. I was like, you know, listen, this Pope was not good for, the church or for policy, in my opinion. And, you know, to tell America we're being unchristian, you know, and to embrace the LGBTQ stuff and all that, and I think you definitely had your differences. what do you think happens now with the church? Will there be a. A shift? I guess. Does it all. How does this work? Does it all come down to who they choose, in terms of where those policies will go, or do you think there's an awakening in the church?

>> Father Frank Pavone: Well, both the people in the pews have a lot to say. You know, in the Catholic, structure, as you know, it's very hierarchical. the people don't vote for their. Neither for their Pope nor for their local pastor, for that matter. But that doesn't mean they don't have a voice. And they should be raising their voices. And I think a lot of them are raising their voices. And I think part of the good news is the same people who went into the voting booths and gave us such a great victory November 5th, many of those same people are sitting in the pews, in the churches, and just like they rejected the WOKE agenda, in the voting booth, they want to reject the WOKE agenda in their churches. Now, it boils down to these 135 or so cardinals that'll be voting, in a couple of weeks on who the new pope will be. A lot of it depends on that. And m. My guarded, optimistic, cautiously optimistic opinion is that they will choose somebody who's going to make, a course correction. Because this pope, I agree with what you said. He's been bad for the church. He's said so many things that not just Catholics, but all of us in the body of Christ have been scratching our heads and saying, what is this guy trying to do? And you, know, I think the cardinals see that, too. And even if. I mean, most of these men were appointed cardinals by Pope Francis, but that doesn't mean they think the same way that he did or that they would govern the Church the same way that he did. I think they're going to realize there's got to be said, there's confusion that's got to be cleared up. And frankly, there are some wounds in the church and division that has been caused, that has to be healed, I believe. I don't think we'll see, you know, them go as far as another John Paul ii. Although that would be a. That would be a blessing. He was beloved.

>> Rick Green: I was thinking. I was actually thinking that. I was like, imagine if Trump had a job, Paul ii like Ronald Reagan did, right? Imagine if y'all.

>> Father Frank Pavone: But. But I think. I don't think it'll be another Francis either. I think we're gonna. We're gonna get to, you know, some course correction and. And praise God for that. And, Yeah, you know, I think we'll see you. Look at that. 2025. We got a new president in the U.S. we got a new pope for the Catholic Church, and hopefully they'll be very much on the same page.

>> Rick Green: Amen. Amen. Well, we'll have to get you back soon when. When all that's said and done and, and see what you think. But, Father Frank, just so appreciate your work, man. We, You know, we love working with you and locking shields with you and teaming up on what's going on in the culture right now and just, excited about the victories that are happening and the harvest that's there and. And I know you're the same way we are. It's like, press the gas, press the gas. There's no time to slow down. Let's go get. Let's go gain that ground back, right?

>> Father Frank Pavone: Yes. Amen. We love working with you guys, too. Yeah. Thank you so very much and, looking forward to a lot more good things to come.

>> Rick Green: Oh, man, I love having Father Frank. It's, you know, he's just, it's one of those situations where, you know, you look at the internal battles within each, sect of Christianity and there's no doubt, you know, we have the same issues in the Evangelical church and in the Baptist church and in the, I guess that's part of the Evangelical church, but I mean, it's Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, non denominational, the Calvary chapels. I mean, every group has some sort of internal battle right now over this question of salt and light. What does it really mean? And, and you have those who don't want the church to be salt and light or are they actually genuine? Some of them m. Genuinely believe you're better salt and light whenever you're wimpy. I mean, that's the way I see it. They see it as just being nice and, you know, not ruffling feathers. And they, they have a very limited view of the gospel. It is, it is very much limited to salvation and, and, you know, redemption, but not restoration, not discipleship and the kind of things that, we certainly advocate for around here. So anyway, same thing going on in the Catholic Church and Father Frank, you know, definitely in the middle of all of that. And so it's good to get him on and get his opinion on all these things happening. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. You're listening to at the Core with Walker Wildmon and Rick Green.

>> Jeff Chamblee: At the Core podcasts are [email protected] now back to at the Core on American Family Radio.

>> Rick Green: Welcome back. Thanks for staying with us here on at the Core with Walker Wildmon and Rick Green. I'm Rick Green, America's Constitution coach. Appreciate you staying. you know, that was Father Frank right before the break. Got another, guest that I want to share with you and this one's going to be a little bit weird. I haven't ever, I don't think I've ever done this on at the Core, but I'm actually going to share most of a program we did on Wall Builders because the conversation with our Special guest Steven McDowell is actually in studio with David and Tim. And normally on Wall Builders I do the interview separately and then David and Tim and I do sort of a commentary on the, on the front and back into that. in this case, Stephen happened to be in studio with David and so we did it all together. So this One's going to take, you know, we're going to have to go through the break. We'll get part of it in here in our second segment and then we'll finish it up in the, in the third segment. But it's just really, really good content. If you're not familiar with Stephen McDowell, phenomenal guy. He's been part of, you know, on the board of Wall Builders and part of, you know, with David Barton for years. I've learned so much from Stephen on so many different things. And of course he's part of the American Family association family because he does all these co tours with Tim Wildmon and with Walker and everybody else. And we mentioned this. I think it was Thursday, no, it was maybe Tuesday when Walker and I were hosting together. But we were talking about some of those trips that are coming up this year because I'd just gotten back from Boston and doing the whole Paul Revere's ride and the reenactment, at Lexington Concord. And they're going to go to all those places this year. So not only the Israel trip and Williamsburg, Virginia and all that, but also there to Massachusetts where, I just got back from, mentioned that before. I thought it'd be a great time to have this interview with Stephen here on our program as well and just great information that I wanted to share with you. So let's jump in. Here's the interview with Stephen McDowell, David Barden and Tim Barton all together. Stephen, thanks for coming on again, man.

>> Stephen McDowell: Well, it's always great to be with you, Rick.

>> Rick Green: Well, we could cover so many different topics. I think of all the things I've ever done with you here on Wall Builders, especially when we did the Ten Commandments and we broke it down one by one. I think we spent like 2 weeks or a week. Well, I guess 10 would be 10 divided by 5 would be 2 weeks. Anyway, I don't remember if we combined them or not, but just appreciate you so much, man, all the great teaching that you're doing and what a great. What do we got, year and a couple of months to have 250th this and 250th that. And it's just about every other month there's some really cool celebration, including last month Patrick Henry, give me liberty or Give me death. And then last weekend we got Lexington and Paul Revere's ride. Just a lot of cool stuff to talk about today.

>> Stephen McDowell: Well, and Rick, you guys were up there. I, I saw a post on social media where y'all were there that night? I, I know you took some of the interns with you, from Patriot Academy up there. What, what was that like? How late did you stay up? Because Paul Revere, obviously, it was, it was a bit of a late night for him. And when the British arrived the next morning, it was a very early morning. how true do they stay to that story? And how short or long was your night?

>> Rick Green: Well, just to the embarrassment of wall builders, I, I, I snuck up the road and knocked Paul Revere off his horse and took over. And, just so that he would finally not get caught, you know, that he would not only make it to Jonas Clark's house, but then leave and not get. No, I'm kidding. I was tempted. I'll tell you what, guys. Having a filming permit makes all the difference in the world. We did not have one this time. Ten years ago, we had one. We're right on the front row. Getting to see everything this time. Wow. The crowd was huge. And, we were a little bit buried in the back, but it was still pretty amazing.

>> Stephen McDowell: Well, I know this is not the point of the question, but I do feel like had you taken Paul Revere's horse with your 1911 on your hip, you were probably a little better armed than he was. You might have navigated. Right. The British wouldn't have known what to do with a. This repeating firing mechanism in your hand they haven't seen before.

>> Rick Green: I'll tell you what was the coolest thing, though, guys, out of all of it. And we did. We, you know, we stayed up most of the night. In fact, the kids slept on the green so that they could save us some good spots. Not, all the green, but on the, on the grassy knoll above the green. And, so, yeah, we did the Paul Revere ride thing. We did the, the reenactment there at Jonas Clark's house. Of course, the emphasis being the pastor's house, which we talked a lot about, and then the shot heard around the world. And then, then we went to the monument and got to do an Easter service at the monument. It's all cool, but I. Rick, Rick, Rick, wait.

>> Speaker A: Wait a minute. Why do you assume anybody knows the relationship between Jonas Clark and Paul Revere and Lexington?

>> Rick Green: You're right.

>> Stephen McDowell: Now, wait a second. We do have a historian friend with us as well.

>> Rick Green: That's right.

>> Stephen McDowell: Sitting right beside us, Steve McDowell. And so the worst game you can play is trivia with historian friends, right? Because anytime you feel like you have them, they're like, oh, well, let me ask you a question now. So not to put right our friend Steve McDowell on the spot, but I feel pretty confident if anybody is going to be able to tell the story. Paul Revere, pastor Jonas Clark, Lexington Green, the people on the Green church connection, he's probably going to know it. So, Steve, not to filibuster, since you're joining us actually kind of in studio today, will you tell the story, the connection, who is Jonas Clark and why did this matter for this significant ride? And then the shot heard around the world.

>> Rick Green: And before you answer, Steve getting you. So one of the reasons that this guy should obviously know why the pastor would be involved, the name of his organization has an interesting word in it. Providence. So anyway, sorry, Stephen, go ahead, man.

>> Stephen McDowell: You know, I love Longfellow's poem Listen my children, and you shall hear of the midnight ride of Paul Revere on 18 April in 75 Hardly is now alive who remembers that famous day and year. I learned that in school. But what I didn't learn is that shot fire that was heard round the world took place on the church lawn of Reverend Jonas Clark. And it was his members of his church who were primarily the ones that stood out there that day. And what, eight were killed, 10 were wounded. And that they had been prepared. Their deacon Parker had for months. Every Sunday when they, they come to church, they'd bring their guns. Part of his responsibility as a deacon was to run, these troops through military drills in case they had to defend themselves if it ever came to it. So that important event took place on the church lawn with members of Jonas Clark's church. And as he would say, someone asked him, will you fight? Will your men fight? And he said, I prepared them for this very hour because, see, he had been teaching ideas of resistance against tyranny to his people for years. They were well grounded in understanding these concepts of just war. And so when it came time to it, God providentially chose. All right, I'm going to start this important event, this shot that not only led to the liberty of the United States of America, but the United States has been an example of liberty to the world. Liberty began to, advance throughout the world after the birth of America. And the whole thing began on a past church with the pastors, parishioners, who had been prepared with the character and worldview necessary to stand up against the tyrant. So this to me is what's a revelation.

>> Speaker A: Hey, I'm going to jump in on this because as it turns out, Steve and I Today were just. We were together, but he was reading a sermon from 1747. It's called an artillery sermon. Artillery sermon is something that goes back to 1633, where in Massachusetts, once a year, as they would elect the officers of the militia, they would have a minister come in and address all the citizens, address the military and say, hey, here's why we, as Christians are in the military, and here's what we do with the military, here's the proper use of the military, etc. And even as we were just talking this afternoon, he was kind of going back through some of, that sermon and talked about how the pastor, Pastor William Hobby was going through and talking about why Christians make better soldiers than others and the whole worldview. So Steve kind of covers some of that.

>> Stephen McDowell: Yeah, he says in this sermon that the Christian life is a warfare and that every Christian is prepared to really be the best soldier because he's taken up his cross, he's died to himself, he's not afraid to fight the battle that's necessary to give his life. It's necessary for the cause of liberty. So when you enlist in Christ, you're part of Christ muster role is what he says. So you're enlisted in the army when you become a Christian, and that's why they make the best soldiers.

>> Stephen McDowell: Well, I think that's a pretty bold and, and significant contrast, guys, as I guess it was yesterday morning, that the world was notified that Pope Francis had passed. And one of the things that I remember very well, when Donald Trump was elected and actually even recently when Donald Trump was, deporting some of these criminal, violent, illegal alien offenders, the, The Pope said that truly unchristian, to, to. To try to remove these people. Right? You shouldn't be building walls, you should be building bridges. And the irony that like the Vatican is surrounded by this impenetrable wall, I mean, there's so much in this. But I say that because it is an interesting contrast where some pastors, preachers, spiritual leaders have come today as compared to where ministers, pastors and leaders were in many cases early America. And of course not every pastor in early America was on the side of the cause of many against it. But certainly there was a very vocal, group of leaders of these pastors and ministers who were very clear on what these biblical positions were. And, and Steve, as you were, as you were acknowledging that it, it. I chuckled a little bit in my head because I have dealt over the last several days talking with people about some of this Christian Nationalism conversation. And if you're a Christian and you think that that biblical value should be a part of the nation and involved in this, you know, for some reason, then you are a Christian nationalist. If they thought you were a Christian nationalist for just thinking that that traditional biblical value should be applied to the nation, I cannot imagine what they would say if they went back and reviewed or even had conversations with some of these early pastors who were so vocal about one of the most godly, Christlike things you can do is not just promote your nation but, but fight for your nation, at times even kill to defend your nation and freedoms and liberties. Pretty, significant contrast to say the least.

>> Stephen McDowell: Many ministers preach sermons around the time of the American Revolution, before fighting had begun, when it first begun, they were preparing the members of their church. Okay, a defensive war and a just cause, a sinless before God. That's the name of a sermon Reverend Jones preached in M. 1775. So these were not just a bunch of rabble rousers who went out and drank too much and took out their guns, started shooting people. These were people who were prepared with principles from the Bible of why it's so important to stand up against the tyrant. Because if it wasn't for that, we would not have become a free nation. And if it wasn't for that, we would have not had the great liberty that exists around the world today, which people take for granted. But, it was people like this prepared by the pastors to stand for this truth.

>> Speaker A: One of the things that's interesting too is when you have wars, they're fought by soldiers. And soldiers or citizens, you know, I don't care what country they're from, it's the average people that become soldiers. They can be used for good or bad, depending on what your nation is. But specifically, when you look at going into war, all these guys were equipped to go into war. I mean, as Steve was mentioning these sermons, this is one of the things that was out there. And this goes all the way back to, if you go back to St. Augustine in the third century, he's already talking about just war and helping Christians understand that, look, wars are part of it. the Bible says there's going to be wars, there's going to be rumors of wars. We know that even at the very last, the last participation we have in Revelation 19 is we'll be warring with Jesus Christ and that great fight at the end. So wars are all the way through the Bible. And so way back in the third century A.D. you have St. Augustine laying out, look, here's what the Bible says about war. It's really clear. Here's what makes a just war, makes an unjust war. And every individual needs to know that when he goes to war, he doesn't want to participate in something unjust. And then even as you go a thousand years later, you, get St. Paul, Thomas of Aquinas, same thing in the 1200s. He's going through and talking about wars. There are wars. There's always wars. There's wars and rumors of wars. There's always a time of war. But what is right and what is wrong about war? And I think that's one of the things that most average citizens today don't have the biblical understanding to say. This is what makes it right. This is what makes it wrong. And as an individual, and by the way, every citizen back then was trained to be part of the military, the militia you had to rouse around to defend your town or your community or your church or whatever was going on. I think most citizens today would have a difficult time knowing what's just and unjust. Biblically, it's more like, well, I was told to go, and this is what my commander told me to do. And that just wasn't the case back then. The individual interpretation of the Bible through the traditional lens of biblical interpretation, every individual knew that Bible and studied it because their preachers really helped them be equipped in case war ever came. And if it did, what are we going to do when it gets here?

>> Rick Green: Well, that's part of why it's so important to remember the former days and to know the details. Like Ronald Reagan said, if we forget what we did, we won't know who we are. And forgetting what we did, on that incredible day on April 19, 1775, not knowing that Captain Parker and these others had been trained by a pastor in just war theory, as you mentioned, Stephen, the fact that his words were so important, don't fire unless fired upon, and that it was defensive, that, you know, David, one of the best gifts you ever gave me was that sermon of Jonas, Clark on the anniversary on April 19, 1776, when he lays out like a lawyer the details of what happened that morning on April 19, and proves that it was the British that fired first, that he had taught his men not to be offensive, that you had to play defense in this case. And so, yeah, just another great example of teaching the truth. But like Stephen, you're saying it without the pastor's influence, it would have been what you said a Bunch of guys just going out and drinking at the tavern and pulling out their guns. No, this was a community and a group that had been taught by that pastor for years. That's why when we did our Chasing American Legends episode, we came to the conclusion that, that on the field that day, the British fired first. But in truth it was actually Jonas Clark firing with the pen, writing his sermons for 10 years, 12 years, sowing those seeds of liberty. I wasn't familiar with. You said that was Pastor Jones. What was the name of his sermon? Because it sounds like it was very much like what Clark and others were teaching.

>> Stephen McDowell: Yeah, Defensive War and a Just Cause is Sinless before God. That summarizes the whole concept of just war just in the title of it. And there's many sermons like that were preached. And by the way, if there's anybody who's listening that wants to go, go to Lexington and Concord and Boston and see this for themselves. This fall in October, Tim and I are going to be leading a tour. It's open for everyone. We've got folks from all over the country, that American family, radio Tim Wildmon and his sons are, we're going to be having a tour of the Boston area. Plymouth, Boston, Lexington, Concord. So we're going to go to these sites, we're going to see where they took place. We're going to be telling you the story. So if you want to know more you can go to spiritual heritage tours.com spiritual heritage tours.com see what we're going to do, sign up, come join us and learn that marvelous story.

>> Stephen McDowell: So for all of the American history nerds who want to go experience the non woke version of American history and hang out with Steve McDowell and I, we would love to have you guys join us. We're going to have some links also on the Wall Builders website, we're going to send out some email blasts. We would love, love for people to come and I'm saying that we're taking a couple buses so there is definitely limited availability for people to be able to go. But we would love to have your family join us if you're able and available. If you want to have your kids come see firsthand. If you've never been up to like the Boston area, seen them, Freedom Trail, there's just so many cool things up there. We would love to have you guys join us. And here's some of this history firsthand from people like Steve McDowell who really know what they're talking about. And I'll probably Repeat a lot of what he says to sound really smart as well.

>> Rick Green: All right, stay with me, folks. We got a quick break and then we'll be back with David Barton, Tim Barton, Steven McDowell and myself. You're listening to At the Core with Walker Wildmon and Rick Green.

>> Jeff Chamblee: At the Core podcasts are [email protected] now back to At the Core on American Family Radio.

>> Rick Green: We're back. Thanks for staying with us here on At the Core with Walker Wildmon, Rick Green, David Barton, Tim Barton and Steven McDowell. We've been talking about the trip to Boston and all the cool places that they're gonna go. I just want everybody to know, if you want to, if you want to donate to the bail fund, then I'm organizing that because I'm just thinking about this. Stephen McDowell, Tim Barton, Tim Wildmon, Walker Wildmon. This group is going to be in Boston on the Freedom Trail and then Lexington in Concord. I just have a feeling another revolution is going to happen with these guys getting together. So, I guess David, you and I will go raise the money to bail them all out because they get their muskets and start some kind of skirmish before this thing's over.

>> Stephen McDowell: I mean, don't be surprised if you see my social media posts and I've got like this William Wallace face paint.

>> Stephen McDowell: Right?

>> Stephen McDowell: this is, this is that moment coming back. Let's go.

>> Rick Green: Well, and you know, you've made this point already, but I just want to reiterate, there's nothing like walking in the footsteps of the Founding Fathers and having somebody there, they could tell you the true history. Unfortunately, most of our national treasures have been co opted by these leftist Marxists and they change the story and they emphasize bad or they make up the bad and they ignore the good. And so they get to go do this and to go do the Freedom Trail. Go see where the Boston Massacre happened. And Tim, you know when you talk about Crispus Attucks and you talk about all of the things that happened in the revolution, it's just powerful. But to be able to stand there while you're telling the story and be where it happened. Go to the Old South Meeting House and talk about Dr. Joseph Warren. And I mean, you guys, this, this is an incredible opportunity. What is, by the way, the best place to find out the schedule, the dates, how to get there and sign up and that sort of thing? do we go to AFR or.

>> Stephen McDowell: Well, you can go to spiritualheritagetours.com spiritualheritagetours.com and it will have the schedule, the dates, the events, the things that we'll see. And you also. We do a couple of other tours of Washington, D.C. Jamestown, Williamsburg in mid June and mid Sept. And those are other options for you, but that you can get right away. You can go that today and see all that information.

>> Rick Green: It's going to be so just such a great opportunity to teach people what it is we're celebrating. Every time we have one of these 250th celebrations, we need to be emphasizing not just the shot or the people or whatever it was, but as we just talked about in the first, part of the program, the principles, in this case, the biblical principles of just war theory. But now we're going to be getting into the principles of when you form a nation, what are the foundations upon which are the principles upon which you'll build the foundations of the country. So this is a really good opportunity over the next year or so.

>> Stephen McDowell: Yeah.

>> Speaker A: And I think that America is going to get re. It's going to have an opportunity to be re. Exposed to a lot of history that it hasn't really heard formally in a long time. one of the things that I really appreciate about what Trump is doing with the 250th celebration of America is he's going to start it really early. It's his plan to start rolling stuff out this Memorial Day. So essentially, we're talking 14 months before the actual anniversary. And I thought he really set a good tone just a few weeks ago when he did that proclamation on the 250th anniversary of PAC. Patrick Henry, give me liberty, Give me death. And that was one of those big kind of seminal moments that kind of really helped crystallize people's thinking in some area. And so you look at that and imagine all the things coming between now and next July 4th that he's going to be talking about and highlighting. And it really is the traditional kind of history stuff, the approach that really makes you feel, I don't know, maybe we say that it's a Christian nationalist approach, because if you look at his Easter message, that was really Christian Christian. And by the way, I've just got to shoot down this Christian nationalist stuff. Nationalist, by definition, is someone who has an affinity to or a loyalty to their nation. I have a loyalty to America. I have an affinity to America. I love America. And I also happen to be a Christian. So by definition, that's a Christian nationalist, and that's not what they've redefined it into. But by definition, I am a Christian who has a love for and affinity for my country. And I think God put us here. This is the nation he chose to put me in. He didn't choose another nation. I hope everybody else in all their nations are also nationalists for their nations. If everybody would seek the best of their nation, it would be really good. So, anyway, I just think it's going to be really good for all of us, the amount of history that we'll be exposed to over the next 14 months or so.

>> Stephen McDowell: Well, dad, to your point, that's Jeremiah 29. 7 For those that want to do a quick Bible study. right, where Jeremiah tells the, Israelites that are being carried captive into bondage into Babylon to not despair, but seek the peace and prosperity of the land to which they're being carried away. Captives. Pray to the Lord for it, for when it goes well with the land, it goes well with them. This is the idea. And by the way, we can go through a lot of scripture. When you look Even at Hebrews 11, it's. It's known as our faith hall of fame. We're told to look to the Hebrews, the faith who've gone before us, and their lives are examples to us and those great moments of faith. It's quite interesting how virtually every single person in Hebrews 11 was connected and involved with government on some level. And so our greatest heroes of the faith were political leaders in the midst of them following God's call on their life. just a lot of connections with this. So just to, to give a caveat for people that want to discount the idea that as Christians, we only care about one kingdom, and that's God's kingdom. And of course, that is the primary kingdom. But as long as God has us here, we need to be good stewards of the place where God has planted us. And that means taking some level of stewardship and being engaged and involved to make the place better where God has us now. With that being said, guys, for us, we've talked a lot about how we see God on the move, move all around the nation. but Steve, I know that you do stuff even outside of the nation. we, it seems like every now and then we're talking.

>> Rick Green: Are you saying God's God? Not just in America. Wait, you're interesting. Okay, this should be good.

>> Stephen McDowell: Well, you know, when we think of places that, revivals happening, there are places right now that, like France, that we, we never thought we might be talking about, about the baptisms and revival in France. And, and as you look at the nation. It's not, not just America, but the nations around the world. It's clear that God's on the move. And Steve, you've had opportunities now, it seems like for decades you've been doing stuff around the world. Are you getting any sense that there's some of the same revival type thing happening? and I'm saying central South America because I, I know you kind of go that way somehow sometimes. What are you seeing in your travels?

>> Stephen McDowell: Well, God is definitely moving in many, many nations. For the. I've been traveling to Latin America for the past 30 years, probably been there 15 or 20 times, many of the nations. And I just got back from Colombia and, it's amazing what God is doing. You know, I have a friend of mine, he's a pastor. He's 85 years old. His father is head of the gorillas. And the 1950s, he got saved out of the guerrilla camp. But when he got saved in the early 60s, there's 10 or 15,000 Bible believing Christians in Colombia today. There are 10 million. That's 20% of the population of that nation. That's happened really since I've been going there 30 years. And they're starting new churches, Christian schools, but they're also getting involved in shaping their culture, in government, in many different, areas. And that's why I'm going there to teach these people, what does the Bible say concerning how do we govern our nation in accordance with biblical truth? Because they want the fruit of obedience to God, which is flourishing. It's liberty. And so, in all kinds of areas, and that's happening not just in Colombia, but in Brazil and in Chile, lots of parts of, Asia and Africa, that there's an unprecedented outpouring of the spirit of God in the nation. You know, more people have gotten converted in the world today since we've been alive. David and I have been alive, same age and getting kind of older then all through the last 2,000 years of the Christian faith. So God is at work doing something mighty, transforming nations. And they've never seen anything like it. You know, Columbia didn't get religious liberty recognized, by law until about 20 years ago. And their whole history, this was a brand new thing for them. You know, in America, we think we've had liberty since, fortunately, 400 years. They've had it for 20 years. And so God is at work. God is moving. He's doing something unprecedented in many nations, today, and that the kingdom of God is advancing.

>> Rick Green: Yeah, I was actually surprised over the last couple of years, Stephen. Even to see other nations leading the way before us on some of these things and even on the liberty issue, watching some of these nations that were seeing a return to basic liberties, and it was almost like it gave us courage a little bit, to be able to stand up for those things as well. Hey, Stephen, what's the best, for a person that's listening today, and they're seeing all of these new things like the tariffs and just all kinds of, economic, new topics that they're not familiar with in the past. You've got so many good materials on economics. What's the best place to start to just get a basic understanding of biblical economics?

>> Stephen McDowell: well, the newest book I wrote is called Steward in the A Biblical View of Economics. You can find that at providencefoundation.com, you can get it at Amazon as well. Well, that I would say is a great introduction to get an overview of what God has to say about this very important topic of economics. Because God created the world to be productive, and that's at the foundation of a flourishing economy. So that's what I would point people to.

>> Rick Green: First, the title, one more time.

>> Stephen McDowell: Steward in the Earth A Biblical View.

>> Rick Green: Of Economics and Providence foundation. Foundation.com calm. I was going to say dot com, but every time I say dot com it ends up being dot org, so I should remember that. Anyway, providencefoundation.com Stephen McDowell, our special guest today. Stephen, thanks so much for joining us, man.

>> Stephen McDowell: Great to be with you guys.

>> Rick Green: What a cool time having those guys. Always a good anytime to have a conversation with David and Tim Barton and Steven McDowell all at once and, really like talking about, what they got coming up this year. I'm set it a bunch here on the program. I'll say it again. If you can walk in the steps of the Founding Fathers, if you can go experience these things first, firsthand, you gotta do it. There's just no substitute for it whatsoever. Taking that big group out there, especially the young people that we took on that trip, was just so rewarding. All right, we're gonna. Before we close out today, I want to hit a couple of the headlines that, haven't been able to talk about yet. I just gotta say, I think whoever's calling these shots at the White House for President Trump, maybe it was him, maybe it was his idea, but this whole idea to line the driveway with all of these pictures, pictures of all of these thugs, these rapists and murderers and criminals and gang members that have been apprehended and deported, to put that in, you know, front and center, so that everybody's got to think about it, so that the media can't hide from it. Because, you know, every interview gets done out there and you see all of those, all of those pictures, and everybody's wondering, who are those people? Well, this is brilliant. And the reason it's so brilliant is because this issue cuts so, so favorably for President Trump, for good reason. Anyone, Anyone with common sense, with two brain cells to rub together, that's actually going to be honest. So this, you know, they're gonna be honest. This cuts out a lot of the politicians and most of the media and, frankly, most political hacks. But anyone that's gonna actually be honest about this issue, if you say to them, would you like for known rapists and murderers and gang members from other countries, These aren't even Americans. They're from other countries. Would you like for them to be released from prison? In a lot of these. Maybe not quite Third world countries, but they're definitely, they're not America. Would you like for those kind of people to be flooded into your neighborhood? Neighborhood? Would you like for, those people from other countries to illegally be transported into the house next to you, or maybe even into your guest house? But, but, but let's keep it, you know, where anybody has to rationally think about this. Would you like for those people, rapists, murderers, drug dealers, gang members, you know, the worst of the worst, to be released from prison in other nations where they've been very hardened as criminals, and then put into the house next to your house next to you and your children? Would you like that? Anyone that is being honest would say no. And, and that's what this is really all about. And when it gets down to it, that's what President Trump is stopping. Because you can try to think that this is only happening to Texas or, you know, to New Mexico or California, Arizona, you, you could think that it's only happening to border states, but it's not. It's happening to everyone in the country. And that's the reason Donald Trump won the election in a landslide, because he kept pointing that out and he kept showing it, and he. And he kept highlighting the murders of innocent Americans by these people and saying, I will fix this, I will change this. I will get these people out of our country and stop. Stop letting them in. And he's done both. He's. I mean, what is it, 99% apprehension now? I think there's a handful that have still gotten through and Gotten, through I don't know where, but somehow got across. I don't know if we apprehended them or not, but, I mean, bottom line is 99% have been stopped. And then all of these, not all of these, but a ton of these that were let in over the last four years by a president and a secretary of Homeland Security that should be absolutely jailed for treason for what they did to this country. because of what they did, all of these millions are here. And you may say, well, Rick, but millions of them aren't gang. Well, actually, 700,000 that we know of. 700,000 that we know are criminals. Now, you could technically say they're all criminals because they came in illegally, but I'm even gonna separate it from there. And so I just think the fact that President Trump is doing this successfully, making all of our communities across the country success, safer, and, doing it and keeping people thinking about it is brilliant. I think he should have these pictures up everywhere. I think in every speech he gives. Start with, well, the total today is this. We've deported this many rapists and murderers and gang members and drug dealers and other thugs. And I just think if he continues to do that, we win the midterms. we keep the favor of Americans. The marketing here is phenomenal. Now, more importantly, the actual policy is good for America, is good for our future. But just in order for the policy to continue, he's got to do the marketing side of this. He has to keep winning the American people's opinions, because the battle still rages in courtrooms all over this country where these judges are out of control and thinking that they're going to make policy. The battle, battle still raging in these blue cities where these mayors and others would prefer to protect the rapists and murderers and drug dealers than to protect the citizens that they're supposed to be protecting. And so that battle goes on, which is why the marketing is necessary to get the American people to still support the president's policy so that, you know, they can go on and continue to do this. Anyway, just a phenomenal, phenomenal move by the White House. Continues to be winning, winning, winning. All right, out of time for today, folks. Thanks so much for listening. You've been listening that before with Walker Wildmon and Rick Ring.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Preborn celebrates that Roe vs. Wade has been overturned. Roe has been responsible for the slaughter of over 63 million babies. Now the decision to abort a child will be left in the hands of the states, and sadly, abortions will continue in the most liberal states over the past 16 years. Preborn has positioned their clinics in the top abortion cities where 50% of abortions occur. PreBorn's work of saving babies lives continues at an even greater level as they save babies lives and defend their centers from the radical hate groups who want to shut them down. PreBorn's response is dependent on you, the pro life community. Be a part of rescuing lives and changing hearts for Christ. $28 sponsors one ultrasound and $140 will help to rescue five babies lives. Dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby or go to preborn.com all gifts are tax deductible. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.