This is your chance to ask us your Bible question on Fire Away Friday
>> Jeff Chamblee: It's Fire Away Friday. Fire Away Friday on Exploring the Word. This is your chance to ask us your Bible question. You can email your [email protected] or visit facebook.com exploring the word. Exploring the Word. It's Fire Away Friday on American Family Radio.
>> Alex McFarland: You know, years ago, Art Linkletter had a show where he had kids on, and they would ask questions and say clever things and funny things. And that was just a big, hit show some years ago. And I think about that. I'm on the road in front of hundreds of teenagers. I'm in upstate New York, and we're going to go over some questions today, and I'll throw a few questions out that they, posed to me last night as I was on stage.
Exploring the Word is hosted by Alex McFarlane and Jim Stanley
But we welcome you to today's edition of Exploring the Word. This is Alex McFarlane and with me, and I feel so privileged always to gather around the mic with Bert Harper and, and Jim Stanley. And, we're going to go over questions from people and maybe you want to send in a question at some point. You know, you can reach us, whether it's a question or a comment or, even you want to send in something for us to join you in prayer about. you can do that. Wordfr.net, w o r d wordfr.net but guys, isn't it good that we can go and not just have the platform to do the show, but we've got the word of God, the Bible scripture, God's word, to give us a sure, solid, rock, solid answer.
>> Bert Harper: Amen. You know, my opinion doesn't amount to much. Although I've got an opinion about most everything. It really does not amount to anything. I heard about a meeting that they were having with a pastor, interim pastor really was someone they were looking at calling a full time. And he was a professor at a seminary. And they were discussing some issues. And there's this one guy went off and people kind of said, now wait a minute. He said, well, I've got a right to my opinion. And the professor, interim pastor, said, you have no right to an opinion if it disagrees with the word of God. So I pray that if we have opinions that it would line up with the word of God. That's really a prayer request, that when we give that, you know, we're very slow on our opinions. Jim, I think you got three opinionated guys here around the microphones, but we better be close to. Be very careful and hold it close to the vest, not give it all the Time.
>> Jim Stanley: And I think one of the things that helps us, though, guys, is that when we start to give an opinion, we say, this is what I might think. And then we open ourselves up to be corrected by either of the other two. And so we kind of hold each other accountable for that. and so we do want to be very careful with that, because the answers that we base, we want them to be. We want to base them in Scripture. And then if it does wander into an opinion that I might have, I'll usually say, in my opinion, I think it says this. And I've had folks email me and say, hey, we don't care about your opinion. And I'm like, okay, you know, good for you. I just. Because sometimes I didn't know.
>> Bert Harper: You didn't recognize the email address being okay, good?
>> Jim Stanley: No, not at all. none of those. But when that happens, though, it's one of those things that sometimes we want to explain a little bit more, and we want to try and explain it in a way that I can understand it. And so that's why sometimes I will say, and all of us do, but we are very careful to be open to correction from the other two.
>> Bert Harper: The word of God is. Sure, Alex, you got it.
>> Alex McFarland: Amen.
Do not be taken captive through false beliefs, apostle Paul warns
>> Bert Harper: Well, listen, if you got a thousand questions, you better get started with 1,000 kids.
>> Alex McFarland: Well, you know, let me read a verse right quick, and then I'm going to go to the first question. And I think it will kind of touch everybody's heart, maybe. But in Colossians 2, verse 8, the apostle Paul said, see to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of the world, rather than on Christ. Now, the way the King James renders that, it says, beware. In other words, watch out. It's a warning. Do not be taken captive through false beliefs. And that's why I think we do, especially in this age that we're living in, we've got to be vigilant to build our beliefs and our opinions and our perspectives on the word of God. We call that a biblical worldview. But last night, I was on stage and, shared with these precious young people. And then we opened up the floor for questions, and here's what somebody asked, and I want each of your responses, to this. A youth asked me last night, do you ever, worry and wake up and just think to yourself, what if it's all false? What if it turns out there's not a God? What if it turns out there was no Jesus, there's no God. Do you ever lie awake at night and fear maybe none of this is true? And so before I give you what I said, I want what you guys said.
>> Bert Harper: Okay, well, I want to share with that young person who's listening. I struggled with that in my, late teens and early 20s. I was in Blue Mountain College and I was driving home one night from a night class that I was having and it was about a 40 minute trip. And I, that came across. If this is not true, and I want to share with you, I went through, how could it happen? you know, where did God come from? You know, he's alpha and where did he come from? I don't know of anything that, that doesn't come from somewhere. All those things was going through my mind and I had no answers, to be honest, except I'd gone to a Bible camp where you memorize scripture and then you'd go, it's in Louisiana, close to Ringgo, Louisiana. There's a camp now there, but it's a different ministry running it. But I remember the director of the camp going through scriptures in the Old Testament and giving account after account of the prophecies that were given in the Old Testament that they were guaranteed written hundreds of years before Christ. Hundreds of, years before. A thousand even, sometimes. And not a, one of those promises concerning Jesus Christ in prophecies, concerning his birth, his life, his death, his resurrection, every one of them came to pass. When I recognize that and see that it sets me free to believe. Yes, it is real now. That's what happened to me. That's a personal testimony. When you look at the prophecies in the Old Testament and the fulfillment of those in the New Testament, and we've talked about this, Alex. even, television programs, as good as they are, written over like a five year period of time, they'll have discrepancies in it. Like you and I are Andy Griffith shows. And one show, continuity errors. Barney, can sing the next and he can't sing one, he has a car the next, and he doesn't have a car. And they had different writers too. Well, the Old Testament had different writers. The New Testament had different writers. There is no way that could have happened just with man writing it. That's my answer, Jim.
>> Jim Stanley: Well, pardon me. I take everything that Bert just said and I would include that, but I think also at some point our faith has to come in. I watched. There are a couple of movies that I enjoy and I will watch them from time to Time, one of them is the last samurai. And in there, the samurai is in his village and he's looking at a blossoms on a tree. And he mentioned that someone could spend their entire life searching for the perfect blossom, and it would not be a wasted life. Well, if we spend our lives basing our faith on the Lord Jesus Christ and we go about making disciples, we go about doing what the scripture says, we do this, and we do it with the faith, believing that Jesus is who he said he was and that the scripture is true, as the scripture says it is. And we have no other gods before him, and that includes the idols of money, marriage, and everything. God is supposed to take first place. He's supposed to be supreme. So if we do all of that, it would not be a wasted life. But the fact of the matter is, we do know because of some of the things Bert just mentioned, and Alex, I'm sure some of the things you're about to mention, that we will not have a wasted life because our faith is secure and, and a lot more than a flower blossom on a tree.
>> Bert Harper: Amen.
>> Alex McFarland: Beautiful. That's a great illustration. And you know, Bert is right. I mean, the Bible and its continuity, that message is the Savior and how you can know him, fulfill prophecy. Oh, my goodness. You know, I just think about in Jesus alone, I mean, you've got, born of a virgin, born in Bethlehem, he would be of the tribe of Judah, he would be a descendant of Jacob, he would be a descendant of King David. and you think about this. 2000 years ago lived a poor Jewish teacher, a rabbi, who was crucified at Passover. I mean, if Jesus weren't the son of God, I mean, there's every reason that Jesus would have been gone and forgotten. And yet, the majority of the world for 2000 years has turned their eyes, their life, their heart, their hopes to, to Jesus. This as that famous poem, One Solitary Life said, a poor rabbi from an obscure Jewish village. But you know what I think about this? Where the Bible promised that, God would bless Abraham and the seed of Abraham would bless the nations in Genesis 22. And do you know, let me just say this, even Ishmael. Do you know, the Bible prophesied that Ishmael would be powerful in the nations. And it also prophesied that the sons of Ishmael would be wild and would be the opponent of all nations. And I look at, the seed of Abraham and the seed of Ishmael. And my point in this is all of these Bible Prophecies have come true to anybody listening who might be a skeptic. And we love you, we're praying for you. And we've heard testimony of many skeptics that have come to faith. I mean, think about this, guys. Here's the Bible that was, written over about a 1500 year period. And really either this is just an unusual old book from antiquity, or it is absolutely the living powerful word of God. And I mean the whole world today and history itself has, played out exactly to the letter as the Bible said it would. I mean, this is real, this is reality. But the other thing I would say, I've never for one minute, not even for a second, worried that there was no God, Jesus was false, and none of this is true. I've never worried for a minute. now I stretch my mind to figure out how God could possibly love me. How could God love the likes of me? But I know he does. But here's the thing also, I look back over my journey. I'm not who I was at 21. I'm, a different person for having known Jesus for 30 years. I've seen answered prayer. I've seen the Lord transform my life. I've seen the Lord bless the lives of my family and those around us. And I think when you take all this together, the Christian journey itself convinces us that not only is God real, is salvation true? But our Lord is so, so faithful, isn't he?
Alex: What have we missed by trusting and believing in Jesus
>> Bert Harper: Yes. When you said that, I want to finish off with my statement like this and it has a little bit of following up what you said. Alex. If we're wrong and Jesus is not God, that we just are. Ah, happen, chance upon the earth, survival of the fittest. What have we missed by trusting and believing in Jesus? But if we're right, which in my, 100%, I know we're right. Look what the others, the skeptics have missed. They have missed everything. Have you noticed skeptics are the ones that don't have an open mind. I know, skeptics usually don't have an open mind. Skeptics with an open mind, I would sit down with them and say, this is the evidence of creation. This is the evidence of a flood. This is evidence of the word of God. And, if that is a debate with all my heart, I believe the believer wins.
>> Jim Stanley: Amen.
>> Bert Harper: Because the evidence is there, Alex.
>> Jim Stanley: Well, this is Exploring the Word on American Family Radio. We welcome your questions from Facebook. Our wordfr.net and we'll continue with more of those answers straight ahead.
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Jim Stanley: This is exploring the word on American family Radio
>> Jeff Chamblee: Welcome back to exploring the word on American family Radio.
>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Just give me Jesus Just give me Jesus? There's nothing I desire that can't be found in you? You're everything that I've ever needed? Just give me Jesus.
>> Jim Stanley: Well, I tell you what, you want to talk about a song? Reinforce the question from the previous segment. That's the answer right there. This is exploring the word on American family Radio. I'm Jim Stanley with brother Burt Harper and Dr. Alex McFarland. Want to real quick, before we get on to our next question, remind you that you can see where Alex is going to be by visiting alexmcfarland.com AlexMcFarland m.com and you can find out where he's going to be and also how you can bring him to your church. And, and then brother Burt Harper. You can find his destinations and things coming up, including, I believe you have another fishbowl retreat.
>> Bert Harper: I got a fishbowl retreat in October, Jan. And I will be hosting that. It's up in Linden, Tennessee. And they go to repairingthefoundations.net repairing the foundations. That's plural.net if you just leave it singular, you'll learn how to fix your house underneath when it's falling apart. but it's, repairingthefoundations.net and JJ Jasper has become, a standard there. I want to hear the one year I didn't have him. I got all kinds of complaints. So JJ will be there, and this year, we're going to have Abraham Hamilton iii. And Abe's going to come and light your fire. And so, we want those to be there.
>> Jim Stanley: Now, notice that I gave Alex's website for Alex. All right, but how. I staged that question for you. Answer. Because we've been doing this, what, ten years or more?
>> Bert Harper: eight years.
>> Alex McFarland: Hey, by the way, this is our. July is the beginning of our 10th year.
>> Jim Stanley: Oh, yeah, that's right.
>> Bert Harper: Well, I wasn't here. That was Marvin, wasn't it?
>> Jim Stanley: That was Marvin and Alex and myself.
>> Bert Harper: you guys grafted me in.
>> Jim Stanley: Yeah, well, and it's been a welcome addition, I can assure you.
>> Bert Harper: Amen.
>> Jim Stanley: But, I always seem to mess up, so I staged that that way on purpose.
>> Bert Harper: Guess what, Jim? I recognize that. And I was ready to pull that trigger. Thank you, brother.
>> Jim Stanley: I appreciate it.
>> Bert Harper: Thank you so much.
Question is, does God forgive pedophiles? When it's asked and answered
>> Jim Stanley: Well, folks, today we're taking your questions from wordfr.net as you heard, Alex is at a conference right now, and so he brought in a question. Ah, from one of the students there. And Bert's going to have a question in just a moment. I have one that's going to be a little hard to hear and that some of you may not agree with the answer on. And I get that. However, when. When it's asked and answered, I think that you'll know that why the answer is the way it is. So the question is, does God forgive pedophiles? Now, guys, that is. That's one of those things that I hope you never have to experience. Bert, I know you said you've experienced it, in the church and, during your pastorship and different things. It's a horrible crime against children. But the question is, does God forgive pedophiles? And so this is coming from someone who has probably walked into that in their life. And when you walk into that and that happens, that is, it's worse than the ice bucket challenge with the way that it hits you. The way that it hits you on so many different levels. Because the first response is usually, not a good one. It's not forgiveness. It's more that, we would wind up needing forgiveness for what we may do in that situation. And so the first. And this is going to be a pretty straightforward answer. And the reason I say that is because here is what the scripture says, and it alludes to something Alex said just a moment ago. And this is Romans 5, starting at verse 6. You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ Died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person. Though for a good person, someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates that's an active verb. God demonstrates his own love for us in this. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. So the short answer is, yes, God does forgive pedophiles. However, they have to come to a place of repentance, as we all do. And so while our sin may not be that of pedophilia, there's probably some sexual sin in some of our lives somewhere. Again, sin is. Sin is sin, and we always say that. But when I think of, pedophilia, I think, and I know that one of you guys will know this reference. I apologize that I don't. But where the scripture talks about if one offends a child, it would be better that it would be better for them to put a millstone around their neck. And in all honesty, there have been times I wanted to help someone with that millstone. And so that's when it becomes a sin for me. and so I'm going to let you guys chime in on this.
>> Alex McFarland: Let me weigh in on this for a second. And Jim, as hard as it is, I'm glad you're bringing this up because, you know, we think of, bad people, quote unquote, and we kind of create a hierarchy from, you know, bank robbers, murderers on down, and certainly, pedophilia. And those that would molest a child is unspeakably heinous. And that's about as bad as you could get. obviously. could they be forgiven? Sure. Anyone who would repent of sin, turn from sin, and put their faith in Jesus, who shed his blood on Calvary's cross. as I read the Bible, any truly repentant sinner could be born again and saved. and so, it would be hard for us from our human perspective to be able to muster up the ability to forgive somebody like that. And let me just say that if somebody listening, you were violated and you were harmed, and you maybe for a long time have carried hatred, and animosity, to the person that violated you. I mean, it's going to take the Holy Spirit of God to enable you to forgive the person that harmed, you. And so we live in, as Jim said, a fallen world. And bad things happen to people, and people do bad things. Praise God, we have a Savior that can, forgive anyone who will turn to him. But, Jim, for a minute, let's camp out on Matthew 18:6. Because when we think about, you know, Jesus said, whoever harms one of these little children, it would be better that a millstone be hung around their neck. And we think about the physical harm, which is very real and serious, of course. But do you know in Matthew 18:6, really what it's talking about? whoever causes one of these little ones who believes in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a millstone around their neck. it's really. I was looking this verse up. causing little ones to stumble in sin and turn away from Jesus. I mean, as bad as sexual violation is, do you know what's even worse than molestation or rape or pedophilia? Even worse than that would be to cause somebody to turn away from the Savior. I mean, that's serious, isn't it?
>> Bert Harper: It is.
Bert and Alex: I believe God can forgive, and I believe in redemption
I would say, I want to go real practical. Y' all have handled, I believe it accurately concerning forgiveness. And we understand forgiveness, the redemption part of it is real as well. Here's after this happened at a church where I was pastoring, and a staff member was arrested, and he admitted it for molesting, you know, for pedophilia. and the prison term m was, served by this individual. And then they got out and they started attending church somewhere. I got two or three phone calls from two or three pastors and asking me what to do. Has the forgiveness taken place? I said, yes. I believe with all my heart God can forgive, and I believe in redemption. But I would put restraint upon that individual. no way and no how should they become a part of a ministry to children at that point in time. I don't know when that happens or when that goes away, guys. I have no. Because we would be held in, responsibility to know that and to permit such a thing here in our little community in Northeast Mississippi. Just yesterday, there was someone, two men arrested for trying to kidnap little children at a public place. They had a van, and they, are telling little children, man, we've got stuffed toys in that van. Don't you want to get them in? And so pedophilia is real. And I m. Know all sin separates us from God.
>> Jim Stanley: Right?
>> Bert Harper: But if you read the Word of God, you'll see some sins get to the heart of God more than any other sins. And Alex and Jim, I believe treating children in such a manner is one of those sins. Again, forgiveness, redemption. Yes.
>> Jim Stanley: Right.
>> Bert Harper: But let me just share this. The part of restoration. I do not have that full answer, guys. Well, that's My. That's where I stand. I don't know the complete story of restoration.
>> Jim Stanley: And here's the thing. Bert and Alex, I agree with what you guys said. And Bert, as you're walking that through in the church, there's got to be accountability. All right? If you have someone that has committed a sexual sin, you're not going to put them in the kindergarten area to work on as a volunteer or anything else. and I applaud the churches that are doing their due diligence in looking and having folks go through, background checks to work in their youth and, kindergarten apartments. It's the same statue that bus, drivers have to meet, for whatever city they work in. I know in Lee county, you have to submit to fingerprint and background check before you can drive a bus, before you can teach, before you can do any of those things. And so I think there has to be accountability. It would be like someone who has. And please understand, I'm not making light of this, but if you had someone that was in prison for embezzlement and then was out and was walking through restoration and said, hey, I can help you with your books, you know, you're probably not going to turn them loose to do your books without some accountability and oversight. And, if the person is truly looking for redemption and truly walking through the paths of repentance, I think that they would be willing to submit to that or that they should be willing to submit to that.
>> Bert Harper: Y' all have done a great job in answering that.
Jim: Yes, Jesus forgives and salvation is real, but there are repercussions
And I want to go back to one more thing. Part of this. Jim, you're exactly right. We've not covered this on Exploring the Word, the eight years that I've been helping. you have to look at also the victim. absolutely. When we, if it were in the same church and them come back and, the victim that was hurt was there and it was. Yes, they can go through the issue of forgiveness, and I believe all that. Yet there's got to be some protection there. So when we answer this, and theologically, yes, we do, it's kind of like when Paul was talking to the Corinthians, Alex and Jim, he called them saints. That's who they were. Positionally. But practically, they. They had a ways to go. Alex. They, did, you know, because they were. They had some issues.
>> Alex McFarland: And let me just say this. I, was counseling with the church, they call me, and there was kind of a dust up and a little bit of controversy, but there had been a. That was convicted of A sexual crime. And he got out of jail and came back, but he was a registered sex offender. And, he couldn't be within a certain. I don't know what the restraining order was, but I don't know, let's say 500ft or 200ft. I don't know the exact number. And, the family of this man was offended that the pastor said, I'm sorry, but, basically, if you come in this church building, you're going to be violating your legal, you know, obligations, here. And so, they were asking me to help sort of mediate this argument going on. And I said, you know, I'm sorry. Here's two things I'll say very briefly. Number one, yes, Jesus forgives and salvation is real, but there are repercussions. somebody can be delivered from alcoholism, but they still might get cirrhosis of the liver. so here this man, I don't doubt that he's been forgiven. I don't doubt that in jail he found Christ, but there still are, realities and repercussions of the decision he made. And I'm sorry, but, this family was pressuring the church to kind of fudge on the restraining order thing. But what I would say to pastors and leaders here, the day and age in which we live, this is no time to try to, you know, skirt the rules. I would encourage, as the guys have said, and I've been in Youth Ministry since 1989. Your youth leaders, your staff, your volunteers, we have to be circumspect. I mean, in this day and age, the church has got to be as clean as a houndstooth, if you know what I mean. And so do it right, folks.
>> Jim Stanley: You know, it's interesting he said that about the church because that's one of the things nowadays that we have to watch for, that we as a church body do things that would be honorable to God, that we present ourselves in an honorable way. And then we see the churches that also claim to be of God, that claim to be Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, whatever, you know, whatever the denomination may be, but at the same time they want to condone sin. And by that I mean that they want to open up their doors to perform same sex marriages, to allow same sex partners to participate fully on staff and worship and different things as part of the ministry team. And so we're coming into an age, and even pedophilia by psychiatrists is trying to be deemed non harmful. That's crazy. So that's the day and age that we live in and we don't want to. And this goes back to a conversation you and I had, Bert and Alex. I know that you've thought about it as well. You know, we have these churches over here that are, that are counterfeit. They're trying to be real, but they're not.
>> Jim Stanley: And so what we do is we don't spend a lot of time explaining why they're not real, but rather we spend the vast majority of our time explaining what is real. It's like when a bank, teller, when they train to handle money, they don't show them counterfeits. They don't train with the counterfeits, they train with the real to the point that they know by touch. When a bad bill comes through, we need to know the word of God by touch so that when the counterfeit arises, we see it immediately.
>> Bert Harper: We have this treasure in earthen vessels.
>> Jim Stanley: Amen.
>> Bert Harper: Let's, let's explore the treasure. We'll be right back with more. Preborn's whole mission is to rescue babies from abortion and lead their families to Christ. Last year Preborn's network of clinics saw 8,900 mothers come to Christ. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate go to preborn.com afr welcome.
Alex: We don't talk about politics during exploring the Word
>> Jeff Chamblee: Back to Exploring the word on American Family Radio.
>> Dr. Jessica Peck: M o your blood in crimson streams oh, your death is hell's defeat. A cross meant to kill is my victory.
>> Bert Harper: Hallelujah. We hope you're walking in victory in Christ Jesus. The victory will never be found anywhere else for eternity except Jesus. And so if you have never come to this relationship that's real in Christ Jesus. I pray you would today. I pray you would say, lord, I am a sinner. I'm lost. There's nothing that I can offer to you. There's nothing worth it. But I know you love me. I know you died on the cross. I know you rose again. I know you, you're with a father right now. And I give you my life. I turn away from my way. I turn to you and ask you to forgive me and come into my life and change my life now and forever. If you haven't done that, I pray you would.
>> Jim Stanley: Amen.
>> Bert Harper: Well, this again. I love this program and God, let me pastor for 38 years full time. And then this opportunity came to be at AFA and AFR and have a Alex and Jim. We've talked about it. Probably the nation's biggest you know, Bible study as far as numbers are concerned. I mean, you know, thousands of people. Yeah.
>> Alex McFarland: Every day I almost have to pinch myself because every day I'm praying and I'm like, I cannot believe how the Lord blessed me and let me become a part of afa. And so I get you, man. It is such a blessing. And to everybody listening and, you are the blessing to everybody. We open up the word of God and we are so enthused about scripture, as you can tell, I hope. But we just want Jesus and his word to be real in every one of your lives.
>> Bert Harper: It is. And one more thing. I'll hand it to Jim. I'm going to, The question I had is not near as important as the one he has. And so I wanted to hand it off to him. But, just for Tim Wildmon, looking ahead and saying, you know, we have these programs. Yes. Like Brian Fisher, he has the first segment. It's always going to be a prayer and Bible study, a short one. And a lot of the others, they have a biblical worldview and they bring that into the world of politics and culture. But he said, you know, at 3:00 clock central time we just need to turn that off and go to the Bible and share the word of God. And I'm glad I'm a part of that. And Jim, I think that was good.
>> Jim Stanley: Program and brother well, you know, it's one of those things that Tim, Tim has a great vision for what he wants to do with talk. And the same was true with brother Don. And so when we were looking at this, and the way that it got set up, it was for a mid afternoon break. And so this time that we spend discussing the scripture, we feel is more important than the time that we speak talking about politics. And that's why a lot of times, unless it's a cultural issue, a moral issue, we don't talk about politics during exploring the Word. Now sometimes it seems that we may delve into church politics, but you know, when you're.
>> Alex McFarland: That's a different story.
>> Jim Stanley: and Bert, I appreciate this. This is a question that also came in from Facebook and it's one that we get a lot and we get [email protected] as well. And so we, I really hope that one day we can develop some FAQs. Now I know someone that has a wealth of those, a plethora of those, if you will, anywhere around, you know, he's right next door via microphone. And I want to incorporate those into our site at exploring the Word. And of course be sure to give Alex credit for those. And then Also take even some of the answers that we give audibly, maybe kind of have an FAQ for those as well, and start stacking some of those in. we can look at our producer now and say, hey, man, he's got.
>> Bert Harper: Some work to do. Amen.
What is it about baptism that makes it seem essential to salvation
>> Jim Stanley: So here's a question. What is it about baptism that makes it seem essential to salvation, but actually not, but is essential to our walk with the Lord and in discipling others?
>> Bert Harper: Amen. Alex, I want to make a statement. I want to turn it over to you, to you. To start. I thought about this, and I did have about 45 minute, advantage on you of thinking it through. But I thought, I think this is an issue, and you've spoken to it, and you've helped me a lot. The baptism by water and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are not interchangeable. But what many do. They look, if you see the word baptism, rather it's talking about being baptized by fire or baptized, by the Spirit, which. Both. That's the same. They look at its water baptism. So having both of those words used both ways, I think brings some confusion. Would you think so as well?
>> Alex McFarland: yeah, because the New Testament does use the word baptism in several different senses. And I understand people, they'll ask this question that's kind of a blanket, one size fits all question. to go to heaven, do you have to be baptized? Well, Romans 6:3 says that all of us have been baptized into Christ who have believed in his death, deity and resurrection. And so, if you've put your faith in Jesus to be saved, you've been baptized, baptized, put into Christ. But, the water baptism. And, you know, after I was saved, my mom and dad, my parents were devout believers, and they're in heaven now, but they were lifelong Presbyterians. And I had been sprinkled as a baby, and then I got saved. And I was in this Baptist church, and I understood as part of, being a member of this church was what we call believers baptism. And my mom and dad, they were upset with me. They were glad they had seen the change in the life of their son. But they said, well, you know, you've already been baptized when you were about six weeks old. I said, and I explained, well, just like a person gets married and they wear a wedding ring, it wasn't putting on a wedding ring that got you married. Because, you know, Angie and I tried on our wedding rings in a jewelry store when we went as an engaged couple, you know, we tried on a wedding ring, putting on that wedding Ring in the store didn't get us married. Standing there at an altar in front of the preacher and the witnesses. And we said, I do. And we were married. Baptism. Water baptism in the church is like a public display or a public proclamation of the reality that's taken place in your heart. So, First Corinthians 12:13 says, by one spirit, we're all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, slaves or free, made to drink of one spirit. I read Romans 6, 3, 1 Corinthians 12:13. Salvation is we're baptized into the body of Christ. but then water baptism, which is something that the church does when somebody becomes a believer, it's a fine thing to do. It's an important step of obedience. But it's not the water baptism that converts you into Jesus, is it, fellas?
>> Bert Harper: It is not. But I want to give you this scripture that different people all over use to share, say, yes, water baptism is essential. Here it is, and you guys know it when I say it. Acts 2. 38. I want to read it. Then Peter said to them, repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. And in my study, Bible that I have, I've underlined the word for F O r. Yes. And the Greek word, that is a small word as well, and it's translated in different ways at different times, isn't it, Alex?
>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, yeah. well, it is. And it really means upon the remission of sins, you know, in other words, to be baptized. And I would say, I will grant you this. I think, when you really get into Acts 2. 38, that it means, you know, we're baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus, upon the remission of our sins. In other words, once you're saved, you ought to get baptized.
>> Bert Harper: Not in order to. That word that. For that's not a bad translation, but I hate to use this term, but it's according to what for use it. It doesn't mean in order to. But as you said, upon having received the remission of your sins.
>> Jim Stanley: Well, guys, let me challenge you with this. And this may be a little bit of a curve ball, and it's not meant to be. Well, maybe we'll see when we look at this. And what you guys are dwelling on is important. However, obedience also comes into play because we are called to be obedient to the example of Christ. And Christ gave himself for baptism. Christ didn't need to be washed. He was the living embodiment of the Word of God. And we know that he was holy and lived a sinless life. But even Christ yielded to baptism to be obedient to what his Father had required. I believe that we need to be baptized. Like you guys. I don't believe it's essential for my salvation. The essential part of my salvation was paid for at Calvary. When we take and we look at what price Christ paid for our sins, that payment was taken care of. The atonement was made. However, we, as obedient, we are called to be baptized because it is supposed to be an inward or an outward sign of the inward experience and our first, if you will, public declaration of Jesus being alive in our lives. So I think obedience is a part of that. And so, I do want to make clear that I think it is good to be baptized.
>> Bert Harper: I think.
>> Jim Stanley: I think it's good to agree. But if it's not a believer's baptism, all you did was get wet. Either sprinkled, poured, or dumb.
>> Bert Harper: No matter what.
>> Alex McFarland: You know the old saying, you went down a dry center, you came up a wet sinner.
>> Jim Stanley: That's right, Jim.
>> Bert Harper: I agree with you. For if you're going to be a disciple, and that's what Jesus came, Amen. If you look at the Great Commission, it was not go and make converts, it was make disciples.
>> Jim Stanley: Amen.
>> Bert Harper: And in order to be the disciple Christ wants you to be, baptism is essential to be the disciple, not saved.
If you believe that baptism is essential for salvation, there is no hope
But for that, I want to give you this, guys. and I heard Dr. Adrian Rogers share this. If you believe that baptism, especially immersion, is essential for salvation, and you're on a plane that is going down and you're sitting by someone who is ready and desiring to know Jesus Christ as Savior, if immersion is essential, there is no hope for that person that you're talking with. Is God limited by circumstances? Is God limited by geographical means? Or why send someone to the desert to try to evangelize nomads when there's not enough water for immersion? Or why send someone up into the farthest reaches of the north with. I, mean, you know, those things God is. I'm getting. Jim's here waving a handkerchief saying, preach it. But Jesus Christ is in his gospel, and his mercy is not limited to those circumstances and to those geographical locations.
>> Jim Stanley: Amen.
Mark 16:16 says whoever believes and is baptized will be saved
>> Alex McFarland: Let me throw one more thing in here. And, you know the Acts 2:38, if it were the only verse we had about this, I'll grant You there might have been a little bit of ambiguity in question, but when you look at all the verses, I mean clearly by faith we are put into Christ, baptized into Christ, Spirit of God indwells us and fills us and uses us, and we're baptized into the Holy Spirit, we become a member of the larger worldwide body of Christ. So we're baptized into the church. But I want to give you one more verse. And I think this is interesting in Mark 16:16, because generally the people who say, well, you got to be water baptized to get to heaven. And their backup verse is Mark 16:16. and it basically says, whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who disbelieves will be condemned. Let me unpack this for just a second because the English often raises questions that can easily be resolved if you look at the original language. It says in Mark 16:16, the one having believed and baptized into will be saved. So the word there baptized in Mark 16:16 is literally a word that means baptized into. What are we baptized into? When we believe what has happened? We're into Christ. And then it concludes and it says, but the one who doesn't believe will be condemned. It doesn't say the one who doesn't believe and wasn't baptized. It simply says who wasn't believed. So in Mark 16:16, my point is this belief and being baptized into Christ are really synonymous. That if you, you say, I am sorry for my sins, I believe Jesus is the Son of God. I'm turning to Christ to put my trust, my faith in Christ. Then right in harmony with Galatians 3. 27, you are baptized, you're put into, wedded to, joined to Jesus the moment you believe.
>> Bert Harper: I have a dear pastor friend who's with a denomination that talks about the essentials of salvation through, with faith and baptism. I want to make sure I get that right. And he started working for a hospice, his bi vocation working for a hospice. And he had this individual man that he was working with and he started sharing Christ with him. The man desired, he prayed, received Christ. But this minister that I love, this is a real story, could not baptize him physically. It was one of those impossibilities. And he went back with that issue with a group of guys that were that same denomination. He said, what does God do with those people? And they were kind of quiet. And my friend said, there's no way God would keep that individual out.
>> Jim Stanley: Amen.
>> Bert Harper: And listen, it is by grace through faith in Christ alone. In faith, in grace alone. Guys, it is Jesus.
>> Jim Stanley: Amen.
Folks, you've been listening to Experience Exploring the Word
Folks, you've been listening to Experience Exploring the Word with Dr. Alex McFarland, Bert Harper and Jim Stanley. And we appreciate you listening today. Don't forget, during Fire Away Friday, we'll take your [email protected] or from Facebook. Alex, have a great weekend.
>> Alex McFarland: You guys, too. Thanks very much for having me.
>> Bert Harper: Thank you, Jim, for sitting in and being a part of it. We hope that you tell someone about exploring the Word, but more importantly, tell somebody about Jesus.
>> Alex McFarland: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast do not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
