Transcript

American Family Radio takes your Bible questions live on American Family Radio

>> Jeff Chamblee: The Bible. It's the word of God. Sharper than any two edged sword. This sacred book is living and active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness. Stay with American Family Radio for the next hour as we study God's word and take your Bible questions.

Burt Harper along with Jim Stanley host Exploring the Word

Welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Bert Harper: Thank you for listening to Exploring the Word. This is Burt Harper along with Jim Stanley. Uh, there's three voices that you hear on Exploring the Word quite often. Alex McFarland, of course, and then I'm here as the co host. Uh, but we're looking at a tri host I guess, uh, what do you call that? Three co hosts. But Jim, I'm glad you're here brother. Always enjoy being with you.

>> Jim Stanley: Well, it's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for letting me come along. Uh, what we have is, uh, we have a very fluid situation because Alex is often in the air and you and Ms. Jan, uh, are on trips from time to time. Um, and sometimes we just get sick and we need somebody to step in. And so I am uh, far from the ace reliever but I do get a call to the bullpen quite frequently. I guess I could be a designated hitter.

>> Bert Harper: Hey, brother, whatever it is, uh, I'm glad you're here and always enjoy it. And uh, you know, the different personalities that each, all three of us have causes certain dynamics to happen. When you're doing the program, that's always fun. I've always observed that how individuals feed, uh, off of each other. And when you and I are on the air, my wife says there's going to be some laughter going on.

>> Jim Stanley: There will be.

Exploring the Word asks questions that are not directly answered in the Bible

>> Bert Harper: So anyway, but today we're going to ask questions that have been asked to us and we're going to ask each other these questions and we're going to attempt to give biblical answers. And some of the answers are easy for as biblical content, some are more difficult because they ask questions that are not directly answered in the Bible. So what we try to do then is take the principles or something as close to it as we can and, and see what the Bible says. Uh, Jim, I found out my opinion does not matter. And the older I get, I thought it was really important. When I was younger, brother, I thought my opinion really, really was important. But the older I get, I found out my opinion doesn't really matter.

>> Jim Stanley: Well, you know, Bert, there was a time and you and I can remember this, I, uh, know I can for sure because I've kind of seen it and you have too as well. There was a time that when the Pastor was preaching. That was the primary feeding of the flock. And then cable TV came along and you had more pastors with more opinions m. And a larger audience, if you would, because of where they were and uh, what network they were on and different things. And then we kind of continued to evolve from cable TV into the Internet and now podcast and, and things of that nature. So you can listen, Whereas maybe what, 30 years ago you listened to the local pastor, or, uh, you may have heard what another local pastor said, but you didn't have the international speakers like we have now. And so the, the local pastor should still be a very dominant force in the believer's life, in the local congregant's life. But now they can just Google anything. I mean, literally google anything. And they can get answers from. And we trust some of these folks. Don't misunderstand me, Bible Gateway and other pastors. In fact, I've got a quote from Greg Laurie here in a moment. And so, uh, we also carry many pastors now on our radio network. And so you have all these different places. So our opinions where once they may have carried more weight than they do now, it's almost like. And we don't have to prove what our opinion is, because it's just that. And we'll even say that during the program sometimes. This is from the scripture and this is Jim Stanley's opinion. And I've gotten a couple of emails saying, I don't care what Jim Stanley's opinion is. You know, uh, and I mean, really, they said, we want to know what the scripture says. And so when we read the scripture and we say we believe this is what the scripture says, we say that with a fervent belief. It's not something that we just speak out. Um, and so I think that has something to do with it as well.

>> Bert Harper: I agree. Uh, there are some great Bible teachers. I listen to some as well, and they feed my soul. And, uh, we praise the Lord for that. But we want to do as best we can, live up to the name of the program, Exploring the Word. And uh, so listen, I want to be biased. I want to be biblically biased.

>> Jim Stanley: Absolutely.

>> Bert Harper: And that's my goal, to read the Word. That when I think of something, what comes to my mind is the biblical truth, the biblical principle, the biblical promise, the biblical direction. And that's what you have to go on.

>> Jim Stanley: Absolutely.

>> Bert Harper: Uh, some of the things we have to deal with is where's the direction of the Bible going? It always goes to life. Always goes to life. It always goes to grace always goes to faith. That doesn't mean it's cheap. It doesn't mean it's weak. Uh, but it means that God is looking. When he came, guess what he was looking for? He was looking for faith. You remember what he said? I have not found so great a faith.

>> Jim Stanley: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: That means he's looking for it. So, uh, we want to be and.

>> Jim Stanley: Looks for it still.

>> Bert Harper: Still we want to be men and women and children of faith.

>> Jim Stanley: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Let's go to the questions. Let's do it. Putting you in the driver's seat right here. And let's go.

Jim Reobo: A chronological view of the Old Testament and even the New Testament

>> Jim Stanley: Alright. The other day you and Alex were on and you guys were talking about books of the Bible to read to get an overall perspective of the Bible. This listener was, and I apologize, I didn't write down their name. It says I was driving and couldn't write them down. Could I get a list of those books? I know the whole Bible is vital and have read it through a few times as well and skipped around but would like to do a plan or a reading plan on the books that you mentioned. What were some of those books?

>> Bert Harper: Well, let me give the qualification is a chronological view of the Old Testament and even the New Testament. Now the Old Testament is very easy to do. It's 11 books, Jim. You start with Genesis, Exodus and then you go to Numbers, then you go to Joshua. After Joshua comes judges, then first and second Samuel, first and second kings, Ezra and Nehemiah. When you read those 11 books, you've read about the history, um, of the Old Testament. All the other. That's 11, 11 from 39 if my math is right, is 28. All the other 28 books are, and I'm using this in quotes, commentaries on the historical of what took place like Leviticus and Deuteronomy in the Pentateuch. First five books, the Leviticus, it is the laws that were given. Deuteronomy means second law. Before they went in, they gave it a second time. And, and so out of the first five books, Genesis, Exodus and Numbers are your historical documentation. Now in the New Testament, what you can do, uh, you got the Gospels and it's not four different Gospels. It is four men who God led to write concerning the life of Jesus Christ. One of those. Now I used John the other day.

>> Jim Stanley: I was going to say, I'm listening to this answer because I know where my bias is.

>> Bert Harper: Yeah, I think because of the second book I'd say normally I'd say the book of Luke, Luke, Acts and then go to first and Second Timothy, when you do that, you've gotten a little bit of a historical preview of uh, the New Testament. It's not as clear as the Old Testament. The Old Testament, it is just those 11 books in the New Testament you have a little bit of bleed over and uh, you get a little bit of thoughts in the epistles that Paul wrote. M. But if you go to Luke and Acts, you do get from the birth of Christ all the way to Paul being in prison in Rome, but he was probably released. And second Timothy probably covers that. But to help you understand it, I think one Timothy does good to read. But those 11 and those four in the uh, Old Testament, 11 and New Testament, it gives you an overall view of the Bible that changed my capacity to put and log in where things happened. Uh, one of the greatest things I ever did is I did a walk through the Bible seminar and we went through the Old Testament in one day. And it was ah, in one day. It helped me more than my college and seminary to get an overall picture of the chronological order of the Old Testament. It was eye opening.

>> Jim Stanley: Well, and if you have a local church that is doing that program and it is called Walk through the Bible, that is a great way to get. You, uh, want to talk about an overview, you are literally flying through the Bible.

>> Bert Harper: You are.

>> Jim Stanley: And uh, it is really neat. It is kind of cool. And no offense to our Catholic brethren, but this would give them a run for their money because you are up and down so much. I mean you get to learn your Bible and exercise all at the same time.

>> Bert Harper: I love the one and I changed it a little bit. But this is where I first thought when you come to uh, Saul, David and then Solomon, you know, it says Saul served. You know, Saul didn't have a heart for God. David had a whole heart for God.

>> Jim Stanley: Right.

>> Bert Harper: And Solomon's life was half and half. But I went back forward a generation and it's true. I, uh, this is exactly right. This just really blessed me. David served God with a whole heart. Not a perfect heart, a whole heart. Solomon served God with half a heart. His heart was turned away because of the wives that he had married. And then his son Rehoboam had no heart.

>> Jim Stanley: No heart.

>> Bert Harper: And that's what I call, uh, I'm going to put something else there for people to write in and ask about. That's what I call generational slide. There's a tendency. There's a tendency. It's not a principle. It's just a tendency for generations to slip down. And there's about four or five areas in the Bible where you can identify those things.

>> Jim Stanley: And, you know, one day we need to do a program on generational slide, because you and I have talked about that at great length and we could get a lot of scriptures in, you know, to support that. And then also talk about the homecoming for some of those. And we don't want to. Some of them aren't they. Some of them wise up, if you will. Unfortunately, some don't. But there is. There is that thing. And so you find it, it's going.

>> Bert Harper: Downstream and you have to fight against it, right?

>> Jim Stanley: Absolutely.

Jim: I have a question about whether the devil can read our thoughts

All right, next, I've got a question. And in fact, Bert, you have a question along the same lines. So I'm going to kind of combine these two. Um, and again, I generally write down every person whose question I'm going to use. And I didn't even bring a cell phone with me into the studio.

>> Bert Harper: Now, listen, we need to mark that one up as something unusually happened.

>> Jim Stanley: That's right.

>> Bert Harper: Where you not have technology available at.

>> Jim Stanley: Your side, Jim, I'm telling you. Okay, uh, and I apologize to that. But this one was, can the devil and demons ra read our thoughts? They've always been taught no. And this was the troubling part to me. Bert and I shared that with you before we came on. They've always been taught no, but recent experiences have. Not only the listener, but also their pastor, wondering if the devil can do that.

Jim Stanley: God is omniscient and Satan is not

Now, I want to look at that for a minute, and the first thing that I want to do is I want to talk about the fact that God is omniscient.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. And he's not.

>> Jim Stanley: And Satan is not. That's right. God is omnipotent. Satan is not. God is omnipresent. Satan is not. Now, omniscient means simply that he, being God, knows everything. He knows our hearts, he knows our thoughts, he knows our desires, and he knows everything Satan doesn't. However, Satan has some great message takers and I use great not to compliment them, but basically, almost like a military. Satan has demons and minions all over. And sometimes it seems like they are reading your mind. But what happens is once you've spoken that word, once you've spoken those thoughts, once you've acted on that temptation, there's an immediate report to Satan saying this worked or this didn't. And so we're going to come back from the break.

>> Bert Harper: He's going to try it again then, isn't it?

>> Jim Stanley: He's going to try it again. So we're going to come Back from the break, and we're going to impact that a little more. This is Jim Stanley along with brother Burt Harper. And you're listening to Exploring the Word on American Family Radio.

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Can the devil and demons read our thoughts? Recent experiences have led to questions

>> Jeff Chamblee: This is exploring the Word on American Family Radio.

>> Jim Stanley: The difference between Satan's accusations and the Holy Spirit's conviction is that Satan will always drive you from the cross. Jesus will always bring you to it. And that's the quote I have from.

>> Bert Harper: Greg Laurie that matches his ministry. Absolutely. Evangelism. Um, and not too many people are doing mass evangelism these days like Greg Laurie is.

>> Jim Stanley: Praise the Lord. The reason I use that quote from him is because it goes along with what we were talking about. Can the devil and demons read our thoughts? They've always been taught no, but recent experiences have led their pastor and the listener to wondering. And so we were talking about God being omniscient, um, pardon me, that he can read our thoughts. He knows our thoughts. He knew us while we were in the womb. I mean, the scripture points that out to us, Bert. And so, uh, Satan's not. Satan doesn't have that ability. But we were talking about note takers and reporters and. And that Satan has plenty of those. And just like you said, if it worked once, Satan's going to try it again. Paul, um, described it as the sin to which we fall often, um, not continuing sin, but continuing temptation. I can't think of the exact phrase he used, but, um, that's you know, when Satan tries that and it works, then he keeps trying it and then the time it doesn't work, he tries to make us guilty for the time it did work. And so that's why I use that from Greg Laurie, that Satan's accusations, that Satan making you believe that he can read your mind, that Satan making you believe you have to fall to this temptation, that Satan making you believe this or that, those are his accusations, those are the fiery darts that he throws at us. Okay, but we know that uh, in Ephesians it tells us that finally be strong in the Lord and his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, the authorities and the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. If we don't, and I want you to respond to this in a moment but if we don't think that, that we don't live in a dark world or uh, that there is not trouble with powers and authorities and that there aren't spiritual forces at work. Let's look back to what happened in New York last month and the law that was approved for more killing of the babies, that they're going to deliver the baby and then they're going to decide they can still do a post abortion or in fact I don't see how they can't just call it murder.

>> Bert Harper: At that point is what it is.

>> Jim Stanley: Uh, but can the devil read our thoughts? We've established that's a no. But what do you think about the fact of his minions and different things and ah, the onslaught that we face.

>> Bert Harper: They do take notes as you said, for words and actions and be careful what you say. Every idle word will come into judgment. Now it's not just God wanting to hear what we say and make sure our language and everything is right in faith and appropriate, but he's looking at the actions and Jesus could read their thoughts when he was here. Satan could not, but he could tempt. Now if you look at how Satan tempted Jesus there in the uh, wilderness, it was always connected with his ministry and what he was going through. He was hungry, so turn those stones into, into bread.

>> Jim Stanley: Right.

>> Bert Harper: Jesus uh, was about to begin his ministry of people following him and him making disciples. And he said, I tell you how you do it. Why don't you go and jump off the pinnacle and let the angels have charge over you and you don't have to do all this, you can do it the easy way. And then the third temptation had to do with bowing down and worship him because he was God and he deserves our worship. So most of the thoughts that Satan can put into your brain are ones that you've made room for. In other words, it's not like you're an open vacuum and Satan just put it. But he can do that, and he's putting those there. The question that was asked about spoken, uh, does he undermine spoken prayers?

>> Jim Stanley: I was coming to that one next.

>> Bert Harper: Here's what it does. Some prayers deserve to be spoken silently, right? And, uh, that's the reason you do it carefully. And yes, that's the reason public prayers sometimes, uh, we say, well, they're not as genuine as, you know, when you're in your closet privately, you remember what it says. Go into your closet and pray. Guess what? That's private. Uh, guess who you're else. You're closing off so folks can't see you, and you're making yourself look like a hypocrite. Because if you make your loud prayers, it's also that private prayer time with the Lord that Satan cannot intervene with.

>> Jim Stanley: Well, and that should some of that. And even in the closet, you know, in the prayer closet, uh, needs to be silent.

>> Bert Harper: Exactly. Go in there and be silent.

>> Jim Stanley: And you know, Bert, when you said that, it made me, uh, think of the fact that, that we often pray for our children and we have devotion every morning here. We have staff devotion, and there's prayer after that where we lift things up in prayer. And so sometimes the unspoken request is the best request because you're making that request between you and God, but you're letting your fellow believers know that you need to be lifted up.

>> Bert Harper: You got it.

>> Jim Stanley: And sometimes we think it's a cop out when someone's praying, that we turn from a plea to a pharisitical prayer. Um, and I say that because sometimes we just simply say, and God knows all your needs. And we kind of look at that as a catch all because, uh, I don't write the names down. If I want someone prayed for by name, I call on Brother Joseph Parker, because Brother Joseph takes notes every morning. But what happens is that we kind of cop out on that when we shouldn't. That shouldn't be a cop out. That should be part of a firm and declared prayer to the Lord that God, you do know the hearts of everyone that works here, and we ask you to meet them at the point of their need.

>> Bert Harper: Amen, Jim.

>> Jim Stanley: That should be something that is just as powerful and Genuine. Because then we're not calling out the family members that need prayer. We're not calling out the afflictions that need covering. We're not calling out whatever that person's weakness may be that day. You know, somebody may say, hey, I need you to pray for my finances. Well, once you've put that out there, then guess what's going to happen? You're going to wind up with a flat tire or a busted engine or something because you've given you, You've told Satan where you're weak, and he. Sometimes he will attack you where you're strongest because you've taken pride in that. Other times, he's going to hit you where you're your weakest so that you continue to, to be in misery rather than being able to walk through life. And I don't. I really don't mean that as a cop out, but you, you're a pastor. You prayed that. But the thing is, is that when we ask God to take care of it, then I don't think we're being pharisitical when we just stand up and pray on and on and on, but we're asking God to meet specific needs at specific times and specific people. And you know what? God knows the hairs on our head. He certainly knows the needs and desires of our heart.

>> Bert Harper: Amen.

Jim Harper: Can Satan undermine your spoken prayer? Yes and no

Jim, two things real quickly. One is that I honestly believe, like at a prayer meeting or in a small group, you could say, how many of you have needs that are wise not to express or difficult to express. Would you just kind of wave or something? Give them an opportunity to express that, you know, because those are usually the deepest needs. Now, the reason I use that, it's like when Paul referred to the church like a body, you know, our body. What are the most important functions and organs in the body are those that are not seen. The heart, the lungs, the brain, you know, you can feel the spinal cord, but it's unseen. Um, I believe some of the most important people in the church are those that don't have the voice of preaching or praying aloud or either singing. They're the prayer warriors. So. And they're what, Hidden, Right? And I believe some of the most effective prayers are those that are not voiced, but they are petitioning to God and interceding for God for certain people. So Satan is a limited foe, and yes, he will try. They say, you know, when a saint falls on his knees, uh, Satan runs and he bends down there beside you and whispers in your ears.

>> Jim Stanley: That's right.

>> Bert Harper: And, uh, so you just stay With God, read the word, pray scripture. When you can, you find a scripture, pray scripture. That is very effective.

>> Jim Stanley: Well, and now specifically to this, can Satan undermine your spoken prayer? I believe the answer is yes and no. Because yes, he can take what you've prayed verbally and use it against you. But once you have made that, you've made that prayer to God, you've asked it in Jesus name, then at that point, God has also heard that prayer. And it goes back to what we talked about a minute ago. God is omnipotent, Satan's not. And God, he's all powerful. He's all knowing, he's all seeing, and Satan's not. So can Satan undermine your spoken prayer? Yes, because you've made your needs known aloud. And so Satan knows where to attack you.

>> Bert Harper: Have you ever had a victory without a battle?

>> Jim Stanley: That's right.

>> Bert Harper: And, uh, you know, I use this illustration about church league softball. Did you ever play church league softball, Jim?

>> Jim Stanley: Brother, let me tell you something. Uh, not only have I played church league softball, I've been an umpire for church league softball.

>> Bert Harper: Oh, my God. And you're still alive to tell us about it?

>> Jim Stanley: I am still alive, but let me tell you, you want to talk about some prayers needed, There are some coaches that are church league softball coaches and players that, uh, they need a little bit more Jesus. But that goes back to the spirit of competition and all that. But, boy, let me tell you.

>> Bert Harper: So, yeah, here's what I did. And there'll be a few times that the other team did not show up. And we just won because the other team didn't show up. You know, and I don't remember going home and telling my wife, Jan, about that other team didn't show up. But when that other team showed up, I never hit home runs. But, man, I could knock it right over the infield, you know, and get that running, uh, winning run in. I'd go home and tell her, right. You know, I never talked about a game that, that had to be disbanded because the other team didn't show up. But I talked about the ones where the victory and the challenge was, oh, yeah, this challenge is real. And I'm not making light. Don't use my analogy of softball. Uh, you know, is. But, you know, we do have an enemy.

>> Jim Stanley: We do.

>> Bert Harper: And he is. He is all out to kill, steal, and destroy. And he wants to dishearten you. He wants to discourage you and defeat you. And he's watching every move. And when I say he, he's his minions. I figure his demons are after me, I figure Satan himself is after bigger, bigger fish than Burt, you know, but, uh, his demons are looking and studying to see how we can be defeated. So let's walk in faith.

>> Jim Stanley: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: The Bible says, walk in the spirit and not fulfill the lust of the flesh. The lust of the flesh. Let me just tell you, Jim, I don't know about you, I. I have more trouble with Bert Harper than I do the devil.

>> Jim Stanley: Oh, yeah.

>> Bert Harper: Okay. Um. And it says, don't give room to Satan. That's what you don't want to do, and that's what you be careful. Don't give room to Satan with your habits. Don't give Satan room with addictions. Don't give Satan room with, uh, your attitudes. Uh, stay right with God. And, uh, he is a defeated foe. And we need to know that greater is he that is in us than he that is in the world. And we need to walk in the spirit.

>> Jim Stanley: We do.

Bert: When you start complaining about church, you're giving room to Satan

And one thing you said there made me think of. We talk about the battles in the spiritual realm as well, and how we are just. By the way, Bert, my hamster was turning on the wheel while you were talking about that. And, uh, the word I was looking for earlier was being besetting. Sin. The sin that doth so easily beset us.

>> Bert Harper: Hebrews, chapter 12. Yes.

>> Jim Stanley: And so when we think about that, when we think about what you've just said, think about what happens immediately after church. And you get in the car. Do you have pastor for lunch?

>> Bert Harper: Roast preacher.

>> Jim Stanley: Roast preacher. Roasted choir, roasted soloist. And the guys can't even. Guys or ladies, whichever it happens to be, can't even take up the offering. Right. You know, and so those are things that, when we talk about it being a spiritual war, those are simple darts that Satan throws. And so often they hit, you know, and if you're focused on those things, then you're not focused on the word M of God that the pastor spoke. So when you get in the car, you're not talking about, man, what a great sermon that was. This applied to me here and this applied to me there. But instead it's. Did you see how short that girl's skirt was? Can you believe that they wore those boots, man, did you see those ragged jeans that so and so had on? You know, And Satan uses that.

>> Bert Harper: I want to tell you a story about that. There's this family that went to church. It was a mom and dad, a brother and a sister and grandma when they got there and. And listen to the church, the sermon and every. The songs they went to the car. And here's what took place. The conversation. Dad said, I can't believe that preacher preached that long. And grandma said, well, I don't. I was all right, but he sure was too loud. And, um, the wife said, well, could you believe what so and so had on?

>> Jim Stanley: Right.

>> Bert Harper: And the. And the daughter said, well, those young people didn't speak to me. And the little boy out there heard all that. And he saw what took place at the offering, and he saw what his dad put in. He said, well, I thought it was a pretty good show for a dollar.

>> Jim Stanley: That's true. Uh, that's true.

>> Bert Harper: So be careful. That's what you're talking about.

>> Jim Stanley: Exactly.

>> Bert Harper: When you start complaining like that, you're giving room to Satan.

>> Jim Stanley: Absolutely. And that's what I meant by that, is that you're allowing Satan to take you and draw you away from the meat that might have been served. And you're hitting on the discontent. And a lot of times that comes from inside.

>> Bert Harper: It does.

>> Jim Stanley: It's something that you're struggling with as a person. And instead of addressing what we're struggling with, we want to address what that church was struggling with. Several weeks ago, I visited a church, and, um, I came out and said, well, the pastor sounded rather angry. And I was thinking, I probably shouldn't have said that.

>> Bert Harper: Yeah, well, uh.

>> Jim Stanley: Because he delivered a great word, but he sure sounded a little angry about it.

>> Bert Harper: I get kind of loud. Listen. We're fighting against self. Satan in the system.

>> Jim Stanley: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: Three S's, the world system. And, uh, don't give room. Don't. Don't let self rule. Don't let Satan have room. And don't let the world system carry you away.

>> Jim Stanley: Amen. Explain. Exploring the Word continues right after this.

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>> Jeff Chamblee: Exploring the word on American Family Radio. Connect with Alex and Burt on the Exploring the Word Facebook page. Facebook.com exploringtheword.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God

>> Jim Stanley: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God. And the Word was God, nothing but his word, the very living word embodied in Jesus Christ, who came to earth born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, died on a cross, rose on the third day, and is ascended to the heaven now by the Father making intercession. Jesus is praying for us. The living Word of God is making intercession for, for us today. And Jesus does know our hearts, and he does know our needs, and he knows them better than anyone. And so that's what, when we heard that song, your Word brings life. That's why it can. And by the way, not only has he now ascended into heaven, he's waiting for the Father to say, go get my children.

>> Bert Harper: Amen. I'd like to remind our listeners this is a prerecorded program, and in the last segment, we usually take phone calls, but we're going to continue answering questions. We are, but they've come in at [email protected] and on Facebook and on Facebook. So if you have those questions, we may not answer it personally. Some of them are, and some of them are taken. And we answer on the, uh, air. And we do it different ways. Keep people guessing, don't we?

>> Jim Stanley: That's right.

>> Bert Harper: But I thought of this about exploring the Word, what you was just saying real quick. Got to just get this in. You know, it's also all about Jesus, you know, the living word, exploring the Word.

>> Jim Stanley: That's right.

>> Bert Harper: You know, it's about the written word. But on here, we, we make much of Jesus.

>> Jim Stanley: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: And, uh, Jesus is, you know, do you explore? Well, it's a life worth exploring. I put it that way.

>> Jim Stanley: Oh, it absolutely is. And the reason that we do explore is we'll look at the Old Testament. That points to the New Testament, that points to the risen Savior, that points to the writings of Paul, because Paul is simply making much of Jesus in his writings, and Peter does the same. And even into the Book of Revelation, uh, when you go into that and you begin to look at that, all of that Points to God, and it points to the reunification of man with God at God's house.

>> Bert Harper: M. Not our house. It's about Jesus. Even in Revelation, you may not know who the horsemen are. You may not figure out the bowls and the vials, and I tell you what, but Jesus on the throne and the angel singing, worthy is the lamb. That's good. Anytime, anywhere, all the time. Worthy is the lamb. It's Jesus Christ.

Question: If a person is clinically dead, has their soul already been released

>> Jim Stanley: Well, this question comes in through our Frequently Asked Questions page. And, uh, it doesn't have who it's from, so we're going to go ahead and roll with it. But the question is, if a person who is considered clinically dead or brain dead, has their soul and spirit already been released to heaven. Now, Brother Burt, there's a question right there that will make you scratch your head.

>> Bert Harper: Uh, as Pastor Jim, you know, I pastored close to 40 years before. I'm still pastoring, still pastoring, but, you know, not all the way in the office at the church. I'm here at afr, but I'm still pastoring. That question's been asked me many, many times. In reality, I've been at that emergency room. I've been in that intensive care coronary care unit. And they come out and they say, we can't bring. We don't see any brain activity. They're still on the breathing machine. They're still. And they turn to me, well, Brother Burt, does that mean they're already gone to heaven if there's no brain activity? Now, here's the idea. Let me share this with you. Uh, they are measuring brain activity, and as best they can, they're measuring it. Hear those words. As best they can.

>> Jim Stanley: Right.

>> Bert Harper: Uh, probably it's gone. Uh, it was that way with some family members that I've dealt with, too, in my own family, real close to me. And you have to look at that. What I suggest is give it a few hours and then come back. My opinion is there's at some point in time, and the Bible does not say, except to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. It talks about when Lazarus was escorted into the very presence of the Lord. Lazarus was thrown on the trash heap. Uh, not the one that was raised from the dead, but the rich man, Lazarus. The story that Jesus told, he was thrown on the trash heap outside of Jerusalem, but guess where his soul was? It was escorted straight to heaven with those angels escorting him in.

>> Jim Stanley: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: And so at some point in time for somebody to say, now is the time. Uh, but it is in that time, the answer is, if they are clinically brain dead, they are with the Lord Jesus Christ.

>> Jim Stanley: Well, and that is a very hard thing to counsel because there is a difference in being in a coma where there is still brain activity and being clinically dead and the machines are breathing. For you, this goes back, uh, and for me, it goes back to what we've talked about before, the breath of God, because God is the sustaining breath in our life. And so if we come to the point that only a machine is keeping us breathing and there's no clinical activity, then we're already dead, you know? Ah, during the break, you and I were talking, and I said that I have, uh, we were talking about living wills, and every family, every person needs to go ahead and have a living will done, because then you've made your thoughts known on how you want to be treated at your end of life. And you're not putting that burden on your family to decide whether or not they want to, quote, unquote, pull the plug or turn off the machines, because that's very difficult for someone who loves their mom, who loves their dad. And so I have a DNR that I do not want resuscitated because I want to go home to be with the Lord. And so we have to look at that in that light, if you will. If a person is in a coma and there is still brain activity, then I would say no, uh, for that. But if someone has clinically died, if their hearts stop beating and someone has been in a horrific accident, their heart stops beating, there is no brain activity, Everything is flatlined. That person is ready to go home. I, uh, think we need to do that. But a living will sure will help with that. And that's not to make light of this situation, but the fact of the matter is that God breathes the life into us. And if we now have a machine breathing life into us, then I think. And our brain is clinically flatlined, then I think we've already left and there's just a shell. You know, dirt to dirt, ashes to ashes.

>> Bert Harper: I agree. And let me just add this. Um, it's called a medical directive as well. With living will or. And a medical directive, take the pressure off of your children, uh, and get that done. Uh, you know, uh, we talk about stewardship, Jim, uh, and most of the time, we think of it only in the area of finance. But stewardship has to do with your abilities. It has to do with your life as well. And I call it the stewardship of our citizenship to vote and be involved in the affairs of this society, government that we need to be involved in. I call it citizenship, stewardship. But we also need to be a stewardship of her life. And, uh, having that medical directive that living well done, do two things, get that done. And also tell the person that if you get a certain age, uh, you know, you have that person that's over your finances. You also can appoint a person that's over your medical decisions as well. And so make it plain. Don't hedge around. Well, don't say, well, you'll know what to do. No, uh, we wanted to hear what you want, be plain. And if you're a believer, I'm not saying you go to heaven, uh, man, yes, as quick as you can, but you go to heaven when God calls you, and that's what you want to be ready for. And if heaven is real and you're really saved, that you know Jesus Christ as your savior, uh, death, I'm not saying it's easy, but it becomes a. A passageway, it becomes a doorway, and we step out of time into eternity. And at funerals, I say, while we're saying goodbye down here, we're saying hello up there.

>> Jim Stanley: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: And, uh, so that's a tough question. Pray a lot, but try to get your loved ones, whom you are looking to care for, to make a living will. Uh, do a medical directive and let them hear you. And give someone that medical authority to make those, help you carry out your decisions. Not their decisions, but carry out your decisions.

>> Jim Stanley: And that's the thing. That's what the medical directive in the living wheel does, is you may have someone that can do that, but the fact of the matter is that you've already taken care of it. And at that point, they step in and say, look, this is what Jim said. This is what Bert said.

When parents die, then the gloves come off. And I don't mean that flippantly

I want to touch, um, on one other thing about this as we talk about end of life and different things. The other thing that's important for you as a believer to do to keep from causing conflict with your family members is do your will, last will and testament, because we don't want Joni and Sue fighting over the silverware. And that may sound. And I don't mean that flippantly, but.

>> Bert Harper: What happens, it's real.

>> Jim Stanley: It is when parents die, then the gloves come off. The gloves come off. Exactly. And, you know, I do a program on Saturday mornings with Peter Rosenberg, uh, Standing With Hope. And so that program, we deal with some of that on there. And we've had several callers who call us during the Morning and say, hey, look, this has happened. And now we were a close knit family, but now we're not, because they are fighting over the remains because there was no will. So folks, as a believer, as a follower of Christ and simply as a good parent, as a good husband, as a good wife, take that fight out of their hands. Don't leave room for Satan to come in and say, well, you know, you deserve that silverware because you're the oldest. Or, uh, you deserve that piano because you're the oldest. Or you deserve those quilts that are up in the attic in storage and mothballs because you loved them as a child. And I know that sounds silly, but I mean, some of that, uh, are things that really become fighting objects. Who gets what?

>> Bert Harper: And the more of the stuff, the more of the possibilities. Now, again, I'm from a family of nine children. I'm the youngest of nine.

>> Jim Stanley: Boy, you're out of luck.

>> Bert Harper: Have I ever told you the story about the family Bible and me being listed, uh, in the family Bible, the Harper family Bible? My mom and dad had, uh, they had room for eight children, and so I'm the ninth one. So the big debate was, where do we put Bert? You know, in place of adding a page or putting it in, they put me over on the. It says things to remember Bert Harper. How do you like that?

>> Jim Stanley: Well, Bert, I knew you were a page turner.

>> Bert Harper: I just didn't realize it went all the way. So I have things to remember. But my mom, I mean, we didn't. They didn't have a lot, you know, but this Bible went to this grandchild. Uh, this picture went to this grandchild. She loved it. We, uh, took mom and dad to the funeral home so they could pick out their casket so that nine kids wouldn't be up there arguing over which one would be best for mom and dad. And it went really smooth. The more, the more specific you can be, the better it will help.

>> Jim Stanley: Absolutely. And the answer you don't want to hear when you're working on that as a family is, I don't care. Do what you want. Because then a year later, it does. It does. And so, you know, we're. I don't mean to give legal advice. I'm not a lawyer. I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently. But from a biblical perspective, I can tell you that when Bert talks about stewardship, when we talk about stewardship, that's part of your life. And being a good steward over the things that God has entrusted you with. And I liked what you said, because, you know, really at that point, it all is just stuff. You know, uh, we've got stuff in a storage room. We've got stuff in a storage building at our old property that we still need to go through and see what we want to keep. And we are. We moved several months ago, and a lot of this stuff is in still boxes. And Bert Harper, you know, Jim Stanley. What does Jim Stanley want to do with those boxes? And so there's some grief there, but it's just tough.

>> Bert Harper: You know what I'm telling my three sons, we're storing up stuff that you can throw away when your mom and I die.

>> Jim Stanley: That's right. A lot of truth today. Um, my wife's grandmother, she, um, had a barn, and we went in there and we found Life magazines back from years ago.

>> Bert Harper: National Geographic is hard to throw away.

>> Jim Stanley: They are. They've always got something.

Given Old Testament account of Lot, how can Peter refer to Lot as righteous

All right, I don't know if we have enough time to get to this next question, but I'm going to throw it out there. Given the Old Testament account of Lot, how can Peter refer to Lot as righteous? Well, God referred to Lot as being righteous. So if it's okay with God, it's okay with us. But I, uh, think what they're talking about is what happened at Sodom and Gomorrah. But Lot maintained his faith in God. He didn't want to give the angels over. He stood out and defended the angels, and then he couldn't. Now Lot couldn't find what God asked him. And I think there's a very real correlation between America today and Sodom and Gomorrah of yesterday. I think it's getting harder and harder to find true believers because we begun to. We want to be politically correct. We want to be warm and fuzzy. Uh, we want to do all these things, but so many times we leave the scripture behind. But if God counted Lot as righteous, who are we to say no?

>> Bert Harper: Well, let me add this one. If you have trouble with Lot, go to the church at Corinth. And when Paul wrote to them and called them saints, when some of them were.

>> Jim Stanley: I'm going to use that word.

>> Bert Harper: Sleeping with people they shouldn't sleep with. Okay. Taking each other to court, getting drunk at the Lord's supper table, all this was. And he said, saints. There's a difference in your standing, in your position and your actions and circumstance. Righteous Lot has to do with his standing with God.

>> Jim Stanley: Absolutely.

>> Bert Harper: He knew God. He did trust God. But his actions, yes, they were lacking. They were not what they should be. But it was that way with everybody. I want to tell you. Um, there's none. Good. No, not one.

>> Jim Stanley: Not one.

>> Bert Harper: And Paul, uh, you know how he started out? He started out the least of the apostles. You know how he ended his life? The chief of sinners.

>> Jim Stanley: Amen.

>> Bert Harper: The closer I get to the Lord, the more I find out his mercy and his grace is beyond measure. Because in Burt Harper there dwells no good thing.

>> Jim Stanley: Amen. Good stuff.

Jim Stanley: Exploring the Word is a great resource for Christian evangelists

Well, folks, you've been listening to Exploring the Word here on American Family Radio, Jim Stanley with Burt Harper. I'm sitting in for Dr. Alex McFarland today, and I would invite you to visit AlexMcFarland.com AlexMcFarland.com he's got some great resources and he. You can also find his calendar, see where he's going to be, and you can even invite him to come do an evangelistic service at your church. Again, that's alexmcfarland.com be sure and tell folks about Exploring the Word, but be extra sure to tell everybody about Jesus.

>> Bert Harper: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast do not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.