Transcript

Dr. Jessica Peck is prescribing Hope for Healthy Families on American Family Radio

Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of the afternoon, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And we've got a great dose of it here for you today. We are barreling towards the holidays. They are going to be here before you know it. And even those of you, you who haven't put up your tree yet, and that's completely fine, we can still be friends. You, everywhere you go, you are seeing things in the store, you are seeing things at, the street post, in your community, in people's houses, you are seeing Christmas coming. And we know that Christmas brings people who are looking for something. Maybe they're looking for connection with family. Maybe they're looking for that finally to get that perfect holiday card. Maybe it is you looking for something deeper than that. But what we should all be looking for is the real meaning of Christmas. And that's what we're talking about with my guest today. And we, before I get to that and introduce her, let me remind you we are in the very last days of Operation Christmas Child for this year. And I hope you were able to hear the show earlier this week where we heard from a woman who grew up in communist Romania and talked about her experience receiving a shoebox and how that changed her life. You can be a part of sending a shoebox, and I pray that you will consider that with your family doing that as a family activity. Go to samaritanspurse.org/occ and make sure that it's on your to do list this weekend. What we're talking about today is w is a, is looking for Christmas.

Jessica talks with Donna Vanliere about looking for Christmas joy

And we're talking about that with Donna Vanliere Now. She is a beloved Christmas storyteller whose work has moved millions. She is author of the Christmas Shoes. Many of you will be familiar with that song and maybe even the movie the Christmas Blessing, many others that are adapted into major TV movies. And we all want to matter. We all long for a, legacy. Yet most people feel pretty ordinary. The Nativity shows us that God uses the ordinary. He used ordinary people like Mary and Joseph and shepherds and small towns and unsuspecting places to accomplish his extraordinary plans. And so that's what we're going to be talking about, is looking for Christmas, searching for the joy and hope of the Nativity. We live in a world that is often. It often feels so joyless and it feels hopeless. But we can really show to the world how we can find those. So, Donna, I'm so grateful to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us today to help our listeners to look for joy and hope in the Nativity. And as they're making their Christmas preparations. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

Donna Vanliere: I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me, Jessica.

Donna shares her story of faith and how she became a storyteller

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Donna, tell us a little bit about your story and your story of faith and how you came to write such inspiring stories that have touched the hearts of millions.

Donna Vanliere: Well, my story of faith is actually pretty simple. It was. I was in a second grade Sunday school class, and I know that few churches have Sunday school anymore, but, you know, I grew up in a time when Sunday school was very popular. And it was in my second grade class. I remember the teacher, her name was Thelma Cradock. And she, back then they had the felt boards. I don't know if you've ever seen the felt. Yes, ma' m am. Yeah, with the little felt people and their felt clothes that you could put on them. And, you know, she just laid out the story of Jesus and basically said, who would like to make Jesus as your savior? Who would like to walk with Jesus for the rest of your life? And I thought, that's me. I'm in that camp. So. So I accepted Jesus on that Sunday morning. And it just takes me back to the fact that I know that many of your listeners have young children. And again, there aren't a lot of Sunday school classes anymore, anymore. But I know that there are children's programs, you know, some sort of children's service maybe at local churches. And I just, encourage parents to get their kids in those programs because they do hear about Jesus and lives are still being given to Jesus at those tender ages. Ages.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Amen and amen. And God bless Thelma Craddock. That is so beautiful because I think of all of the precious souls who have sat so faithfully in the front of a Sunday school class. I'm a product of Sunday school, too. I'm a fan of Sunday school. And I think about the librarian. At our Sunday school, we actually had a librarian named Ms. Marie who would just always dole out some candy and some messages of the gospel. And some of my favorite childhood memories are sitting in front of faithful people who are there with felt boards, which I say, bring back the felt boards. Because sometimes we can have over stimulation, over programming with all of this, you know, razzle dazzle, Kids are longing for that authentic connection. So I. I love that story, Donna. I'm so glad that you shared it. And how did that story become so many stories that you have written? I'm sure that so many people have probably seen your stories portrayed on television, even realizing it or read your books. What did God put in your heart? How did he put it in your heart to be a storyteller?

Donna Vanliere: Well, I think because I always love to read. When I was a child, I was. I was quiet. I'm an introvert by nature. So reading really is kind of like in the wheelhouse of an introvert. So. So it's kind of how I grew up. And I could just kind of hear stories in my head, you know, kind of see storylines play out, that sort of thing, although not really realizing what I was doing, until much later. And I thought, hey, I think I could put that on paper and that might actually be a story. And I actually did not start writing officially until, well, in college. I wrote a, few things, but it was after college when I. When I finally wrote my first book. So. But up until then, I'd just been writing things on the side. So there's a lot of practice, there's a lot of good things that can happen with anyone. If you're practicing your craft on the side. There's good stuff that. That happens during that time because it really helps every person hone their. Hone their skills in, in. In crafting it in. In such a way, you know, crafting it in the quiet and the solitude without anyone looking at it and, criticizing it and, you know, having a lot of things to say about it, but really being able to pick over your craft on your own and to kind of figure it out on your own, figure out how to edit or whatever your craft is, just figure out how to do it before taking it, more public. So I did a lot of that, a lot of writing on the side.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I love the ways that God has gifted us with so much creativity to be able to share the message of the good news, of the hope of Jesus. And you have done that. What was it like for you? Donna, I'm sure many people are very familiar with your song, the song the Christmas Shoes, the story that. That inspired it. What was it like to see those come on the big screen? And where did you see God at work during that process, sharing good news?

Donna Vanliere: Well, I saw God in the process, through the whole thing, because it certainly wasn't because of me, wasn't because of my efforts. Besides the Fact, I wrote the book, that was it. but I truly believe that God just kind of downloaded the storyline into me because we're friends with the founder and the lead, one, the lead songwriter for the group NewSong and they're the ones who wrote the song the Christmas Shoes. But I was backstage at one of their concerts in Knoxville, Tennessee one July, it was sweltering hot. And Eddie Carswell, who was the lead songwriter and the leader, he came up to me and he said, donna, I'm thinking about writing a Christmas song. He gave me a two sentence premise, it was so short. And he said, do you think that would make a good Christmas song? And I said, well, you know, I think that would make a good book. And just kind of tongue in cheek, he said, well get to writing it. You're the one with the computer. And before he even had the song finished because he hadn't written it yet, hadn't gotten with a co writer, I was able to really formulate the outline in my head and to begin writing before they even crafted the song and finished it. And I told him months later, I said, had I heard the song, probably nothing would have come to me. But because he gave me so little information, I was able to really just kind of see everything in my head and kind of, you know, bring it together that way. And before the book was even published, the literary agents that I worked with at the time sent the book off to a production company in LA and they picked it up to be a movie before the book was even published. Wow. So again, that is 100 God. I had nothing to do with any of that. You know, I had nothing to do with it being published. With the exception, again, I wrote the book. But but it was everybody, it was such a team effort. God brought all these people together to make it happen. And I can't take credit for any of the movies. Of course. It's, you know, different screenwriters, they get a hold of the book and there have been so many times where I see the final product and I think, did they actually read the book? Did they hold the book in their hands beyond the title? Did they actually do anything? so that's a very different process. But yeah, again I had, I had nothing to do with any of that. It was all 100% the Lord.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It's so encouraging and inspiring to hear. And NewSong takes me back. That is like the soundtrack of my childhood. I definitely listen to New Song and it's great again to see God gifting people in so many different creative ways, whether through writing, through songwriting, writing books, just storytelling. But really all we're doing is retelling the greatest story that was ever told. And that is the story that is in the Bible, and that is the story of Jesus and you. Your new book that you have is called Looking for Christmas. And I've already introduced it, but it's talking about searching for the joy and the hope of the Nativity. And Donna, I see this as a message that on the surface level, it seems so simple, like, yes, of course, it's the Sunday school answer, right? We all want to look for Jesus at Christmas. We want to find joy and hope. Those are the themes of Advent. Those are the signs that we see in people's yards. And yet when we look at culture, we see a very different reality. And we see people who are searching for joy and hope in all the wrong places. And we see people who are forgetting to search for joy and hope and are searching for self fulfillment and happiness and those kinds of things. How did all of that. How did it inspire you to write this particular message of Looking for Christmas?

Donna Vanliere: Well, I really wanted to take the reader into the Nativity accounts, Jessica. I wanted them to meet the people involved and to go to the places involved and to really bring to life, shine a light on how ordinary these people were and, to reiterate that God still uses ordinary people in his extraordinary story. Because it is an extraordinary story. It's the greatest story that's ever been told, that Jesus came from heaven, was born in a manger, born in a barn basically, and grew up to take on the sins of the world. what a. I mean, what an incredible and beautiful love story from the Father. And the Bible actually says love comes from the Father. Love comes from, from God, and Jesus was sent down from the Father. He's just this gift of love that God has given to us. so that, that's the reason I wrote it, because I, I really wanted in and to meet those people and to see themselves, to see the ordinariness of themselves within these characters and to say, hey, these were common people, really common. And I'm, I'm common. You know, I'm ordinary. A lot of people feel like outcasts. They feel like they live on the, on the margins of society, that they don't really have much value or purpose. And I think that had, any of the people involved in the Nativity, if they'd been asked those questions, they would have said the same thing. I'm Very, I'm very common. I live in such a simple town. Nothing ever happens here. You know, you could go on and on, but God used them in extraordinary ways and he still does it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: But God, that is my favorite two words together in the history of ever. And I think you're absolutely right, Donna. Ironically, in this made for TV movie world where everything is glamorized and we see people in pursuit of fame, in pursuit of platforms, in pursuit of, of worldly things, we forget that God used the most ordinary people in the most ordinary circumstances. And God is working through us. And you know, I think about my own life, Donna, and I think about, you know, where I came from in the origin story that I have and the things that I experienced. Never, ever, ever did I think that I would be used by God. But God has showed up in my life in so many ways, in the most ordinary ways, through the most ordinary people. Just like your Sunday school teacher who sat up there with the felt board. That's what you started your story with. She is the star of your story. And we will talk more when we come back about searching for hope and joy at Christmas. I know there are a lot of people who are feeling lonely, who are feeling disappointed, who are feeling sad and feeling like, what is this holiday going to bring? Well, you have the ability to choose that now because God has equipped you to find hope and joy at Christmas. We'll have more with Donna Vanliere when we come back. A recent Danish study revealed something heartbreaking. Just one year after an abortion, women were 50% more likely to need psychiatric treatment and 87% more likely to experience personality or behavioral disorders. That's not women's health care, that's trauma. But at preborn, women find the real kind of care, the kind that heals. When a woman walks into one of preborn's network clinics, she's welcomed with open arms. She's introduced to her baby through an ultrasound. And for the first time, she sees life, not loss. And she's offered hope filled choices. When she chooses life, PreBorn continues walking with her for up to two years, providing maternity clothes, diapers, counseling and so much more. Preborn cares for the whole woman, body, mind and soul, and the precious baby growing inside her. As you think about your year end giving, consider the greatest investment you could ever make. The gift of Life. Dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250 baby. Or visit preborn.com/drnursemama that's preborn.com/drnursemama all gifts are tax- deductible and PreBorn is a five star rated charity. preborn.com/AFR we were watching with expectation.

Christmas Is Coming by CAIN featuring Mac Powell: We were searching for a sign Then the shepherds there in the darkness Saw a bright and holy light Then the angels filled the sky they said to tell everybody Christmas is coming. The waiting is over. Our God is with us Christmas is coming.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Christmas is Coming by CAIN featuring Mac Powell You can hear him start to sing right there. I know I cut it off before the good part, right? But Christmas is coming. You can add that to your playlist.

Donna Vanliere shares her story of writing Looking for Christmas

And today we are talking to my guest, Donna Vanliere who wrote a book called Looking for Christmas. If you were listening in the first segment, she was sharing her story of writing the book the Christmas Shoes, which many of you may have read, may have heard the new song song or seen the movie about it. But really the star of Donna's story is Ms. Thelma Craddock. Donna, I can't get over it. She is the Sunday school teacher with the felt board who started Donna's testimony. And I just want to give a shout out right now to every person listening who has sat up at the front of a, children's Sunday school class, children's programming, whatever that is, the children's programming in the church. If you have sat before a group of children after faithfully preparing a Bible lesson for that week, felt bored or not, I just want to say thank you because it impacts so much more than you, you can possibly know. And it delights me to know in, to have people like Donna come on and share her testimony in that way. And even all those years ago that she was in Sunday school, that I was in Sunday school with a felt board, we start to think, is that really relevant? But I'm telling you, we are seeing kids who are looking for authenticity, who are looking for things that are different. They don't want to go to church and feel like they're in another rock concert. I'm just going to say that out there there's a time and place for that. But they are looking for authentic measures of faith. And we live in a world that is very hyper noisy, that is very hyper stimulated. There is a lot, there are lots of lights, there are lots of, of, just things, technology screens that are on all the time. And that fuels anxiety and division and performance pressure and spiritual drifting. But here is the good news. Here's where we are finding hope and joy today. The Nativity lands right into the middle of a Chaotic world. A world that was experiencing cultural chaos, that was experiencing social pressures, that was having political. It was a political, really, melting pot that was just very much full of turmoil, full of oppression and silence from God for 400 years. But this same God who showed up in the fullness of time still shows up for today, for us today.

How is the Bible relevant to me today navigating chaos and culture

So, Donna, let's dive into that Nativity account. How is that relevant? Because this is something we hear a lot. How is the Bible relevant to me today? What do I need to know about the Christmas story? How is that relevant to us navigating chaos and culture?

Donna Vanliere: Well, the Word of God is living and active. It is still breathing today. It is a word that breathes. It has life. It's not stagnant. It's not dead. So when we look into the Word of God, it's actually speaking into our lives. And, when we think about the Nativity account. And again, love comes from the Father to know that Jesus is love. And he came from the Father for us, and he came to do it to us, to. To bridge away for us to be with the Father forever. and he took all of our sins on the cross when he died. Every single sin, every addiction, every, every abuse, every trauma. He took all of it on. On Himself, again, bridging the way for us to be with him and the Father forever. And it. Again, it's the greatest story ever told. And you were talking about the. The noise and the chaos in this world. It is so noisy and so distracting. And I. I, think the enemy. Well, I know the enemy uses that to keep our focus away from the Nativity story. As a matter of fact, Jessica, you know, when we think about Valentine's Day, what do we say? Happy Valentine's Day. Halloween. Happy Halloween. Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Happy New Year. But then when it comes to that date that says Christmas on the calendar, wherever we go, we hear Happy Holiday. Oh, yeah. the enemy has totally twisted it because he cannot tolerate us celebrating the birth of Christ. So everything else gets a happy in. In front of it. But. But with Christmas, no, it's Happy Holiday. Let's just turn to an ordinary holiday. Nothing special. Not the birth of Jesus, not the birth of Christ, the Lord. So he's totally stripped that. And it's just like him to make this season so noisy and so chaotic and so distracting. So busy. If you. If you have little ones at home. You know how busy December is. there. There are parties every. Every week. Somewhere something's going on. You've got school Parties. You've got parties, house, at church, wherever. There's a lot going on. And it's just like Satan to keep us as busy as possible so that we can't be like Mary. We can't treasure these things in our heart. We can't ponder these things. He doesn't want that. but it's. It's what the Nativity calls us to. We're called to ponder these things, ponder what Jesus did, what he gave up. He gave up the splendor of heaven for us. And to really treasure these things in our heart. Treasure the hope and the joy and the peace. Jesus is the Prince of peace. Treasure the truth. Because Jesus himself said, I am the way. I am the truth. I am the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Our truth was born in that manger. Our hope, joy, peace, love was all born in that manger. And what a. What a time to just still our hearts and just calm down, rest for a few minutes and treasure up these things and just have the Prince of Peace wash over us. This Christmas season.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You gave me a twist I didn't see coming. And thinking about all of those holidays that we say happy, which inherently in itself not a bad thing, but it reminds me of another guest I had, Jill Garner, who. We had a discussion about this, about the world's pursuit of happiness. And we talked about Happy Meals and the Happiest Place on Earth and all of the companies that use Happy Meals happy in their taglines. And Donna, that's the part that is dangerous when we talk about the thief coming to steal, to kill, to destroy. And it's such a distortion because the world's message is, hey, the pursuit of happiness. It's even in the Declaration of Independence, right? Which we. We do want to pursue, that God does want us to have lives that are full. We. We know that because Scripture tells us that. But when we make that, that the only thing, the primary thing, that we are to be happy above everything. Donna, I think we are always going to let ourselves down if that's what we're looking for, is we're looking only for happiness. However that comes, whatever that means, whoever might get hurt in the process. Because my happiness is the primary thing, it's no wonder we're feeling exhausted and disappointed, because we are not enough to fill that vacuum inside ourselves. And I think that's one of the reasons why we're talking about this epidemic of loneliness that is happening, because we're looking for companionship and fulfillment from ourselves and from other people. Knowing that humans are not going to fill all of that. We have to ultimately look for those things in Jesus, look for those things in Christ abiding in him. And I think that's a really powerful message for us to have. And when we look at the Christmas story, Donna, there's so many relatable characters in there, and I want to talk about them just a little bit and dive in a little deeper with that.

Jessica: How do you think people today can relate to the shepherds

Let's talk about the shepherds first. Because really, the shepherds were not the upper echelon of ancient society, and yet God used them in such a powerful way. How do you think people today, some people today, even more so than others, can specifically relate to shepherds in the Christmas story?

Donna Vanliere: Well, shepherds were on the low rung of the social ladder. They weren't invited to anybody's party. They couldn't even testify in court. People look down their noses at shepherds. I mean, they had a smelly job. I mean, it was. It was a pretty thankless job. The Jews didn't like the shepherds, but they needed them to guard their sheep because these were the sheep that would be used in, you know, in temple sacrifice. These were the pristine sheep without flaw or blemish. So they needed them, but they didn't like them. And I think there are many people who feel that way. They feel like I'm looked down on. I'm just doing this job that I don't necessarily like, but I have to do it. I've got to. I've got to pay the bills. I. I'm not invited anywhere. You know, I'm not on anybody's social calendar. There's a lot of people who feel stuck that way. They feel overlooked, they feel unworthy because people have made them feel unworthy and unloved. And for God to not only break that 400 years of silence that you just mentioned first, he broke it with the angelic visitation to Zachariah, an elderly man, which I love the fact we can get into him. but also he, you know, he broke the silence with the shepherds as well, with that. In that host of angelic voices, that were ringing out to the shepherds on that hillside. But not only that, God's glory hadn't been seen for 400 years, and he revealed his glory to those shepherds. I just can't imagine what they felt like. It's hard to wrap our minds around what could have possibly been going through their minds. But, but, but for the angel to say, a savior has been born, Christ the Lord, a Savior has been born for you. And, you'll find him. He's wrapped in swaddling clothes. He's in a, manger. Well, hey, this is shepherd language. They know exactly where to go. They know where to find them. And to think that these, these lowly, common shepherds were the first ones to get the invitation from God himself to go see the King of Kings. And I'm telling you, God still does it today. He is giving that invitation out to everyone who feels common and worthless. And they feel unloved, they feel overlooked, they don't feel worthy. They don't feel like they have a call or a purpose. God is sending out that invitation still. Come, come see my son. Come come visit him. Reach out to my son, and he will accept you. He'll invite you in. Jesus still invites in outcasts. I love the shepherds. I. I think there. I would really have loved to have seen that scene. And one day when we're in heaven, Jessica, I know God will replay it and see a replay of, what happened in a lot of these events from the Bible.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I hope that is true. And it's funny because even today, when you see modern representations of nativity, when kids especially are doing this, nobody wants to be the shepherds, right? I've even heard it. They say, I don't want to wear my dad's bathrobe again. You know, give me something, you know, more prestigious than that. You bring such a good point. And God works in the most miraculous circumstances. And, and that's the. The beauty of the gospel. Just doing those ordinary things. And, And Donna, I want to take you up on your. On your, little cue here about Zachariah.

Donna Vanliere: God reached out to this older generation first

Let's talk about him, about being older. You mentioned specifically being older. And I just read an editorial this morning that was written by a young person. And my listeners will tell you I am a big fan and a cheerleader of Gen Z. And I see God rising up leaders. But I. Some young people who speak very negatively about older generations, like, they're out of touch, like, what do they do anymore? And there's people who think like, I'm retired. Like, what is my purpose now? What, what is there. What can. What can older people, which I'm rapidly becoming an older people, as my kids remind me every single day, what can older people learn from that part of the Christmas story?

Donna Vanliere: Well, I, again, I think it's just so beautiful that God reached out. He broke the silence with this older generation first. With Zachariah and Elizabeth. He could. He could have sent the angel to Mary or Joseph first, but he didn't. He reached out to this elderly couple who'd been crying out to God for how many decades, we don't know, but year after year, crying out to God to. To have a child. And you know, Jessica, in their hearts, they must have been praying, lord, you did it for Abraham and Sarah. Do it again. Do it again for us. but. But the fact that they were. They were living their lives long, obedience in the same direction. They were faithful. They were righteous. They didn't live in a, glamorous part of town. I mean, he. Where he was a priest. I mean, it was. Who wanted to be there. Well, nobody was clamoring to be there. But again, when you think about God's plan, it was. It was his rotation, his priestly rotation that was in the temple that day. And it happened to be Zachariah. He was the one. He was the one that was put there for a reason. And I just love it that he. He went to this older generation first. Because so many times here in our generation, like you just said, you know, as we get older, we think, okay, well, what now, Lord? What am I supposed to do? I'm not 20 anymore. You know, I don't look this way. I don't act that way. How in the world am I supposed to be useful for your kingdom? But we have many more laps to go. We don't know how many more laps we go. And to finish those laps in strength. Don't. Don't limp on those laps that, we don't want to be limping on those final laps. And to think that Zachariah and Elizabeth, they. They didn't limp on those final laps. They were so strong and faithful to the very end. And we. We don't hear anything else about that. Them after, after this story, we don't know what exactly happened, but we do know they left a legacy of, faithfulness and obedience right until their old age, which is what we hope for all of us, that we'll be faithful and obedient. And again, we won't be limping across that finish line, but we will walk across it in strength and still glorifying God, still being used by him.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Amen and amen. And we have just scratched the surface of, how we can relate to these biblical characters, how those emotions and those human experiences that are underlying are just so incredibly relatable. Like you said, Donna, the word of God is living and powerful, and we will explore it more. Looking for Christmas with Donna Vanliere when we come back, you won't want to miss it.

The war against biblical principles rages on numerous fronts

Buddy Smith Jeff Chamblee: We live in a day when America's families are under attack like never before. Buddy Smith, senior vice president of the American Family Association. The war against biblical principles rages on numerous fronts. The Internet, Hollywood, Washington, D.C. america's corporate boardroom. And the list goes on. At American Family association, we're committed to standing against the enemies of God, the enemies of your family, and we recognize it's an impossible task without God's favor and your partnership. Thank you for being faithful to pray for this ministry, to give financially and to respond to our calls for activism. What you do on the home front is crucial to what we do on the battlefront. We praise God for your faithfulness, and may he give us many victories in the battles ahead as we work together to restore our nation's biblical foundations.

O Holy Night by Crowder & Passion: O holy night the stars are brightly shining it is the night of our dear Saviour's birth Long lay the world in sin and error pining Till he appeared and the soul felt its word A thrill of hope the weary world rejoices for yonder race a new and glorious morn Fall your Night. When Christ was born.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back. friends. That is O Holy Night by Crowder and Passion. And today we are preparing our hearts to remember that night, that day that Jesus came to earth. I'm talking today to, very celebrated author Donna Vanliere who wrote a book called Looking for Christmas A Search for the Joy and Hope of the Nativity. I encourage you to get a copy of it and to read something like this for Christmas. Have a devotional, have Advent with your families. We've talked about before. But this book in particular is really encouraging you to look for joy and hope, which is something that is very needed. Jesus mission on earth began in the manger, but it is still continuing today through us. And we're talking about what Christmas means for us this year. When Jesus was just 12 years old, he said, I must be about my father's business. And that mission of seeking and saving the lost, it still goes on today. And there are so many things that we can relate to this ancient story that are timeless truths. And as you're driving around looking at Christmas lights and you see a nativity, I want you to ask yourself, what character in this story do I relate to God? What can you teach me through the story, through the Nativity here? And Donna, you and I were just in the middle of talking about some of the characters, and we talked about the shepherds, we talked about Zachariah and Elizabeth, let's talk about the people in this Christmas carol.

What can we learn today about the Magi and the Christmas story

I mean, the Christmas Nativity and the Christmas story, that a lot of times we see the kids volunteer. They want to be the Magi, they want to be the wise men. Right. They want to wear the crown, maybe ride the camel, carry the gift and come in on the majestic moment. What did you learn? What can we learn today specifically about the Magi and the Christmas story?

Donna Vanliere: Well, the fact that, we don't really know how long it took them to get to where Jesus was. We do know that it says when they got to the place where the child was. And the word child is different from infant or baby. So we know that Jesus was, what, a toddler maybe at that. Because it would have taken them so long to come from Persia on the back of a camel or a horse, you know, whatever they were traveling on at that time. And they would have been in a pretty large caravan because it wouldn't have just been three of them, which is what our greeting cards and our Christmas pageants always portray, because of, because of risk factors alone and because they would need so many supplies. It would have been a fairly large caravan. And they even asked when they got into Jerusalem, they. They said, where is this king of the Jews that we can, you know, worship him? And it says that their presence there alerted King Herod. Well, we know three. Three people asking about some baby being born, that's probably not going to raise much of a ruckus. But if you got a big caravan man, and they're all asking, where is this king of the Jews? Because we want to worship him, and they're all dressed the way that they are. Yeah, that's going to cause. That's going to raise some eyebrows, and that's going to cause some concern, particularly if you are King Herod and somebody's talking about a king that has been born. But the fact that they even, the magi said, we have followed his star. They called it his star. I mean, they were coming specifically to worship Jesus. And when they got to the place where he. Where the child was, it says they bowed down and worshiped him. They didn't worship them. They didn't worship Joseph. They didn't worship Mary. They bowed down and they worshiped him. They worshiped Jesus because it was all about Jesus. And the fact that these, they were Gentiles. What did they know? They didn't know anything except they were stargazers. They'd heard about this star, this scepter that was supposed to rise, you know, in this particular part of the sky. They'd heard that over the years, so that when they see this star and, you know, they were the ones to start following it. But how interesting, Jessica, that they were the only ones who took notice of this star. You know, for most of us, we. We kind of live our lives, you know, looking our. Our eyes maybe to the top of a tree line, but we don't gaze all the way up. but they did. That's what they did. And they kept following that star. And I love the old adage, wise men still seek him. And wise men still do that today. They look up and they still follow the light of Jesus. And the light of Jesus lives in every single one of us who calls ourselves a Christ follower. His light shines within us, and people should be able to see his light in us. And the Bible even says, says, give an answer for the hope that's within you. He is the hope. He is that light. He is that star shining within us. So the Magi were, just truly incredible that they were swept in over however many months it took for them to get there. And then again, like Zechariah and Elizabeth, they're never heard from again. That's it. They came in, the first Gentiles, to, To bow at the, at the. Before Jesus. They were the very first Gentiles to do that. But then we're. We don't hear from them again. And the fact that they. They left another way, they. There was something in them that knew. When King Herod said, will you go find them? And then you come back and you tell me, because I'll go worship him too. There was something in them that said, no one away. We're not going to do that. And God protected them, rerouted them, and got them, got them out of there before King Herod knew anything about it. It's all again, just part of God's remarkable story.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And we see seekers today exactly like you said, wise men still seek him. That is on a big star on the top of my Christmas tree, actually, that is the centerpiece of my trees, as wise men still seek him. And when we look at these characters that we've been talking about, the shepherds, so unlikely, the outcast, yet God sent angels to them, the Magi, Gentiles, that weren't even part of Jewish culture that God called to look. And we look at all of these parts that everybody wants to play in the Nativity. And what we see is that all the little girls want to Be merry. Right. We've seen this played out in the best Christmas pageant ever. And, you know, the competition that's there. But the ironic part about that, Donna, is that m. Mary may not have wanted to be Mary, because when we look at her part in the story, she was in a very scary place. A, ah, place where her very life could have been threatened because of. Because of being pregnant, because of being unmarried. And I think there's a lot of people who can relate to the Mary and Joseph just being faithful, ordinary, obedient people who God called to something extraordinary. How can we relate to Mary and Joseph today?

Donna Vanliere: Well, they had a hard road ahead of them because, like you just said, she could have been stoned for being pregnant out of wedlock. Basically, they were betrothed. They'd already said the vows, but that's different than what we consider it, because they weren't officially married, which is what we would call, you know, our, our marriage ceremony with. With the reception. They'd already said their vows, but that wasn't considered being married married at that time. They were just betrothed to one another. So they knew they were looking at a hard road and they would have been scorned for the rest of their lives. Oh, yeah, right. You were pregnant by God, huh? Uh-huh. I mean, who would believe that? Nobody would have believed that they would have lived their lives with people looking down on them for the most part, for the rest of their lives.

Donna says Mary went to visit her cousin Elizabeth during pregnancy

And I love in the scripture that it says that Mary was. Went to visit her cousin Elizabeth. And it's such a great reminder that when we are going through hard and difficult and challenging times, we need to be around those family members who will love and encourage us and bring us in and embrace us. And I know some people say, I don't have family like that. Well, you have the family of Christ who can come alongside you and bear your burdens. And so I encourage everyone. If you're going through those deep, deep places of hurt, hurt and disappointment, and you're in terrible circumstances, find those believers who will come in and nestle in beside you and help you. And the fact that when Mary entered Elizabeth's house, it said that at her greeting, the baby leaped within Elizabeth's womb. John the Baptist recognized Jesus. And it said that Elizabeth, was filled with the Holy Spirit at that time time, the one and only person in history to be filled with the Holy Spirit just because their baby jumped inside of their. Inside of her womb. And John the Baptist was also filled with the Holy Spirit before He was even born again, the only baby in history, in utero, to have the power of the Holy Spirit before, even being given birth. But what a beautiful picture of just family and then them, helping each other and being a comfort to one another. And as you know, Zachariah, he couldn't even talk. He was silent at this time because he didn't believe the angel. When the angel said, elizabeth's going to have a baby, he was like, oh, yeah, right. I mean, what a. Which is. It's so promising for us because he was such a faithful and obedient servant. But then when the, when the, you know, when the, rubber met the road, he was like, ah, I don't know if that's really from God, you know, which is us. We doubt.

Dr. Jessica Peck: So relatable.

Donna Vanliere: Yes. so he was silent. And so what a gift from the Lord that, that Elizabeth had Mary. And they could talk to one another during this time of pregnancy, and they could be a comfort to one another. And it's just such a beautiful picture of the body of Christ coming alongside of each other and helping each other. So all of these stories, again, they're so common with these common people and how God just reached down and said, you're mine, mine. You're part of my extraordinary story. And I. I want to use you for this and that. They all did. They all said, yes, I. I will do this. And Joseph never speaks a word in any of these nativity stories. He. He's silent throughout. But every time an angel contacted him via those dreams, he got up and he acted in obedience and faithfulness every single time. Time he jumped into action to save his family and to lead the way. We know he had to be such a good man. Two of his sons were early church leaders, and so he had to be teaching the scripture to these kids, which is. Was common at that time for the man to do so. He was just a good, faithful, obedient person. And, you know, he was chosen too. It wasn't just Mary. Joseph was chosen to be her spouse and to be. Be Jesus's earthly father. He was chosen for a reason. And he's such a good godly example for, for husbands and fathers today.

Dr. Jessica Peck: All of these things you're talking about, Donna, are so relatable. I mean, obviously there's the supernatural component of this story that, that cannot be replicated and, and that we are not have. That is a miraculous event that happened. But all of the relationships, all of the calls for obedience, all of the responses to God's Call in your life and the family conflict and the social conflict and the cultural conflict and the political conflict and how they responded to that. That's where the lessons are. And every Christmas morning, my husband reads the Christmas story from Luke, Chapter two. Before we even begin our day. That's the first thing that everybody does when everybody's eyes are opened or halfway opened, depending on how early the first one gets up. And one of my favorite verses in that is. But Mary treasured up all these things, pondering them in her heart. And I think we can learn from. I relate to that, Donna, because, you know, we all love. Probably one of the most beloved Christmas carols is Silent Night. And Christmas is anything but silent. We have that, you know, two minutes of, of singing that song by candlelight in the church. And I would encourage people to really look for Christmas to ponder these things in your heart. Get a copy of Donna Vanliere's book, Looking for Christmas, a search for the joy and hope of the Nativity. And Donna, you actually have, an extended podcast that explores this more. So I would love for you to give our listeners an invitation to listen in.

Donna Vanliere: I do. I actually have a few guests that come on with me and we kind of, dig into this a little more. It's not a rehashing of the book. We do look at Mary and we look at Joseph and Zachariah and Elizabeth and some of the others. But I got some very special guests who come alongside of me and it's on YouTube. looking for Christmas, Donna Vanliere my name and on Spotify under Looking for Christmas. And I should say also that the YouVersion Bible app did a one week devotional based on Looking for Christmas. If your listeners would like to do a devotional that's on the YouVersion Bible app. And I'd just like to finish up by saying that, you know, Jesus said, I came to seek and save the lost. That was his mission from. From his father. And at the very end of the book, I take readers directly into the salvation message.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Donna, that is amazing. And it is all about salvation. And we are at the end of our time together. Listen, I pray as you're looking for Christmas, the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. And I'll see you right here tomorrow.

Jeff Chamblee: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.