Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection and the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword BABY or visit preborn.com/AFR hello.
: And welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. And listen, we are going to talk about a topic today that I constantly, constantly get questions about. It doesn't matter where I go, what we talk about on the show, where I see parents in practice and clinical practice, or I see students who are learning to be healthcare providers, or if I'm in my church or if I'm just in line at the grocery store. The one subject that brings the most questions from parents everywhere for the last several years is the issue of technology. It is something that we are just still trying to wrap our brains around and we have this very unique generational gap where we have parents, a generation of parents, whether that's Gen X, whether that's millennials, whether that's baby boomers who are maybe even grandparents raising their grandkids. We are raising a digital native generation. We're raising Gen Z and Gen Alpha who don't just see and expect technology be present. They expect it to be excellent, they expect it to be fast, they expect it to be good, they expect it to be helpful. And it's really hard when we don't have that live experience. We don't know what it was like to grow up with a smartphone. And some of you, me included, are thinking thank the Lord for that. But this is a reality that is facing Gen Z. And what I see is a lot of times very negative messages that go to them like this is a terrible time to be alive and we see the cultural darkness. But today we're going to find hope and help and most importantly, the light of Christ shining through all of that cultural chaos. Screens are everywhere. Our kids are living in a screen saturated world. They are on our walls, they're in our pockets, they're in our kids backpacks, they're everywhere that we go, they're in cars, parents know something feels off, but just so many of us don't know, where do we even start? And most importantly, how do we respond without fear? Because there's so much fear that is driving the motivation and response here. Or maybe besides fear, there's guilt. Like, I don't feel like I'm doing the best, but I don't know how to do any better. Or just the extremes of, hey, let's just all go back to the Partridge Family era. Let's go back to Little House on the Prairie. Like, let's go back to times without technology, or, you know, let's just dive in and have a, Jetsons kind of house here. Today's conversation is about moving from reaction to responding with biblical clarity. And my guest today is a frequent guest. I've got back with me today Dr. Josh Mulvihill. He's a pastor, he's an author, he's a husband, he's a father. He' an executive director of church and family ministry at Renewanation and he has written a book. We did a series all last year called Worldview Wednesday. You can go back and look for those on the podcast at afr.net or any podcast platform where we really walked through how do you be intentional on helping your child develop a biblical worldview? And today I have him back to talk about two articles that he's written, which he frequently writes and puts out resources for families. And we'll talk about a, compelling case that media is neutral, it is a form of digital discipleship, and parents have to lead with intentionality. We can't just be passive about this. And while information abounds, wisdom is scarce. And it's not about banning technology or living in fear. It's about asking better questions. What is shaping our children? Who is discipling them? How do we steward technology for God's glory instead of letting it shape our homes by default? So, Josh, so grateful to have you back. Thank you so much for joining us and, and asking good questions. How are you? How are your family? How's your family? And you have big news to share with us, and I'm excited to share it.
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: Yes, it's good to be back. And hello, Jessica. Yeah. The big news for our family is our oldest son just got engaged a few weeks ago, so we're getting a daughter. Yeah, we're super excited. wedding this summer. That's the first of our kids to go down that path. So, new for us, but very excited.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That is super exciting. You know, it's Funny, because I am, my husband is the only son in his family and so my father in law, he wanted to make sure I knew that he, that I was part of his family. And he's like, you are not my daughter in law, you're my daughter. I'm like, dad, you're gonna have to say I'm your daughter in law because otherwise it's just raising all kinds of questions. Don't introduce, introduce me as your daughter in law. That is okay. But it's so exciting to be in that series of firsts. And you have new podcast coming out too, so that's exciting. Tell us about that.
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: It's called the Gospel Shaped Family podcast. And the, the hope is that it helps people develop a biblical worldview, especially in their parenting and grandparenting. So we talk about subjects along those lines. It's my wife and I. So if you've ever listened to a couple podcasts, they just have a little bit of a fun dynamic because of that aspect. So, so, ah, conversational. Grab coffee with us, as we talk about our life and what that looks like with our kids. And then we hit just a broad range of topics. So we just covered having, you know, how do you navigate crushes with kids? We're kind of down this path obviously with our son getting married and with you know, February, the month of love. Our kids, it seems to generate these things in the world we live in, both in school, especially in February, but just the idea that everybody should have a boyfriend or a girlfriend early on. And so you know, that was one of the recent ones we talked about. we just covered eating healthy in the new year. I don't know. This might, I don't even know if you know this, Jessica. I think I've told you, but we live on a farm. we moved out to this farm like five years ago for the whole purpose of helping us eat healthy. We raise most of our meat and dairy and eggs. It's a lot of work. but it has resulted in a general better health for our family and that was a big lifestyle change for us. So you know that we just, in like that episode, we talked through some of a biblical perspective of food. Our body doesn't belong to us. It's temple of the spirit, it belongs to the Lord. And we want to, you know, we want to treat it well. those are some of the recent ones. But we're all over the map with what we talk about because worldview, Is comprehensive. It, it touches every area of life and, and it matters with our kids, in all areas. Discipleship is, is, is all of life. So come join us. It's on YouTube. It is on, all audio podcasts. And you also, everybody will get to hear Dr. Jessica. we, are also airing the, the Worldview Wednesday episodes. There's about a dozen of them, and you can catch those there as well.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, that is, people ask me all the time, how do you find hope in a world that is as dark as today? And honestly, Josh, I find hope in families like yours. You're right. Hearing that husband, wife dynamic, and you talking about raising your family on a farm in Minnesota, which has that. Your state has been in the news a little bit lately, but just finding hope though, and people who are looking to Jesus despite all of the cultural chaos. Like, I want to listen and tell us one more time, what's the name of the podcast and where can we find it?
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: It's called the Gospel Shaped Family Podcast, anywhere audio podcast, as well as YouTube. You can find them there.
Dr. Jessica Peck: So tell us now that we're on that subject, though, Josh, what is it like living in your state that is all over the national news? What kind of are you seeing? What, how can we pray? How can we pray for your state?
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: Well, it's crazy in Minnesota right now. I'm sure you're all seeing that in the news. you can pray for the Christian witness that we have. obviously there's a very heated exchange happening with people of all kinds, opinions, and we want the Gospel of Christ. I mean, that is the answer for the hurt that we see in our world and in our state. And it's a great opportunity, of course, to share the love of Christ, the Gospel of Christ, with others. you know, it's, it's a challenging time to live in with our state, and we were the center of the storm with, everything that happened and transpired with George Floyd. It kind of feels like round two is happening here. And, you know, I'm always hesitant to jump into, into these kind of cultural issues right in the moment because I want to. I want to give, time for the dust to settle, to get clarity scripturally around some of the issues that are, occurring with the topics that are at hand. You, know, but. So I don't know if you want to go into the whole immigration side of thing, and what's happening in Minnesota, but I will say a couple of things. one, ah, nations and borders are biblical. It's a good thing. you know, borders are where bad ideas end and ah, good ideas begin. You can just see that in the differences between nations. And so with that in mind, when there are people that are in our country, the idea of a sojourner, the idea of a foreigner, there is a hospitality, a blessing that we want to have to them just like we would to anybody that's coming to our home expected or unexpected. You know, we have that biblical hospitality. but what I'm seeing right now, so I'll say with that, you know, we have 10 plus million people in our nation that have come here, you know, in a way that is not healthy and it's transforming our country. And so there, you know, I do support law enforcement getting a handle on that in a way that protects human dignity in the process. it's going to be messy whenever you have ten plus million people come into a country. It's going to be messy to clean up. it should follow law, law in the process. So, you know, with this mindset of what's happening in Minnesota, I'm seeing the same kind of playbook played out that was happening with George Floyd in the sense that we had a lot of conversation about oppression and oppressors and that's a Marxist kind of worldview. And so when we get into the realm of immigrant, if it falls into that same kind of conversation category of oppressor and oppression, it really is moving forward kind of a Marxist playbook. And so I want to encourage Christians not to get caught up in that that kind of ideological argument. And you're seeing that pretty regularly in the media right now, where the immigrant is the oppressed and the government or whoever else is in support is the oppressor. and so we want to break out of that and operate according to biblical categories and biblical framework within how we're thinking about immigration and how we are thinking about the sojourner and the first foreigner. just like race was often co opted by kind of a liberal progressive mindset to you know, this happened right out of the gate with George Floyd. We saw narratives around you know, equity and BLM and it kind of co opted. And of course the Bible says a lot about race and justice equally it does around immigration and the foreigner and the sojourner. So we want those things to inform how we operate and how we think. so I'll just encourage you know, we could, we could build a whole, you know, a whole program, ah, around this. but I'll, that's what I'll kind of focus on right now is don't get co opted by that oppressor, oppression ideology, in this conversation and keep your, keep your eyes open for it because you'll start to see it pop up as that is, as the conversation's happening.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, Josh, it's good to hear your experience. And I mean this, you're right. It's just scratching the surface. You're talking about very, very complex issues that require a lot of care and that are nuanced. And some of these issues are, are difficult to talk about. And we see division even within the church. And that brings us exactly back to what we're going to talk about. And as we're coming up on our first break, I'll let our listeners know that what I am concerned about is all of the social media messaging that happens. And we see such polarization and we see such, characterization of narratives. And this is something that our kids are swimming in. And if they look at one video, then the algorithm detects that curiosity. The algorithm doesn't have a soul. It doesn't say, oh, here's what's best for your kid. Oh, here's the messages about this. And trying to interpret these really complex situations that are happening, that can have disturbing images that they see. The algorithm is not saying, oh, okay, here, here's how to help your kid navigate that. But it is happening. And if your kid, unless your kid is living under a rock, even if they don't have social media, even if they don't have smartphones, they're exposed to conversations with kids who do. This is what kids are talking about. So when we come back, we are going to talk about formation. How do we take all of these messages that are coming in, the conflicting messages, even conflicting messages that happen within the church community, and how do we direct them back to a biblical worldview? How do we find hope in a world that seems to be addicted to the doom scroll? Well, we'll talk about that when we come back with Dr. Josh Mulvihill.
A Preborn Network clinic helps women choose life through a free ultrasound
Listen, I'll see you on the other side of this break. We're living in a time when truth is under attack. Lies are easy to tell, easy to spread and easy to believe. But truth, truth is costly. And nowhere is the cost greater than for mothers in crisis. When a woman is told abortion is her only option, silence and lies surround her. But when she walks into A PreBorn Network clinic, she's met with compassion, support and the truth about the life growing inside her. That moment of truth happens through a free ultrasound and it's a game changer. When a mother sees her baby and hears that heartbeat, it literally doubles the chance she'll choose life. PreBorn Network clinics are on the front lines, meeting women in their darkest hour, loving them, helping them choose life, and sharing truth. Friend, this is not the time to be silent. It's a time for courage, for truth, for life. Just $28 provides one ultrasound and the opportunity for a mother to see her baby to help her choose truth and life. Donate today call pound 250 and say baby that's pound 250 baby or give online at preborn.com/AFR that's preborn.com/AFR.
I Could Sing of Your Love Forever by Sonicflood: Healer set me free I'm happy to be in the truth and I will daily lift my hands For I will always sing of when your love came down I could sing of your love forever I could sing sing of your love forever I could sing of your love forever I.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back friends that is I could sing of your love forever by Sonicflood Some of you are having a flashback to other good Christian music. And I could sing of God's love forever and that today is the encouraging message.
AI is crafting content to send to you to cultivate a worldview
We are living in a world that is addicted to the doom scroll. When we click on the our social media it's starts to auto feed and AI is really impacting this much more than you're even aware. AI is now determining what do you linger on, what do you hover over, what do you click on? And it is crafting content to send to you to cultivate a worldview. And we see events that are happening in the world that are troublesome, that are traumatic, that can be difficult to interpret, that have talking heads trying to talk and interpret what you should believe about this, what you should do about this, what you shouldn't believe about this. This is all related to what we're calling digital discipleship. We used to think of discipleship in a much more traditional way where we help our kids to develop spiritual disciplines and we help them develop a biblical worldview. But we have a powerful force that's in the world today and that source is technology today. I'm talking to Dr. Josh Mulvihill and he is a pastor, an author, a dad, a husband and now a podcast host on his podcast And we're talking today about his experience and views with technology through that lens.
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: I think we underestimate the shaping ability that screens and media have
Josh, let's talk about what you mean when we talk about media as a form of digital discipleship? I think this is something that as parents, we're just not being intentional enough in, folding that digital life into a discipleship narrative. How do we unpack what that means in everyday family life?
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: Well, it shapes who our kids become and the beliefs they hold. Whether the, whether the people that influence them are in flesh and blood or are on a screen or in audio, they're still shaping who we become. So that's what we mean by discipleship. Actually, just read, a research article that showed how, since the smartphone came into existence in like, I Forget, it's like 2007, 2008 time frame, how it has shaped the voting preferences of men and women based on you, something you just said, Jessica. The, the, the feeds that they're getting, and there's no, there's no, at least this article said there's no like, nefarious, motives other than they're trying to generate views and the algorithms are trying to feed people what it is that they're wanting. And for, for women versus men, the voting gap is about, I think it was 25 points that females have gone left versus males, based on. And you can see the, the voting change, the voting, changes that happened as the smartphone came in. And I'm just stating that as a example of how screens, and media shape us, sometimes that we don't even know as we're looking at, not only as our kids, but us as adults as well. And you know, we start seeing what's on these screens and we think, oh, I can withstand. I'm, you know, I'm set in my beliefs or I'm locked in. you know, I know God's word really well. It's not going to move me. but it's a, I mean it is a powerful, powerful thing. What we have with screens so 100% is, we're, you know, we're in the forming process forever. you know that the early days are the most impactful from a worldview shaping standpoint. but it's just super critical for all of us to be really mindful about what is going into our children's minds, their hearts and their minds as well as our own. And so it is shaping them. You know, the average amount of time that a child spends on the screen today, this is elementary age is seven hours. And for teenagers it's nine hours. And so you start adding up the amount of hours in a year it ends up being over a hundred hours. I mean, 100 days combined when you add that daily. And you think, man, if I was going to put my kids in some kind of shaping environment, that, you know, that's a third of their year, that's just, it's so impactful. And I think we underestimate the shaping ability that screens and media is having in our lives, and with our kids. And it's, as you said, it's not a, we don't, you know, this shouldn't be a fear inducing thing. We don't want it to be a guilt ridden thing. It's an awareness raising thing. And it's really easy. I got, I got five of my own kids. Some of them are still young. I've got one that's in grade school still. The rest are all teens. and it's just, you know, screens are invasive and it's, they're, they're the thing we all deal with. You know, we're not going to go back to the era of, you know, Laura Ingalls Wilder and have no screens, but we do have to. Yeah, but where, where? I think there's some critical questions. I'd love to hear your thoughts about these, Jessica. and these are questions every parent asks. When do I invite a, when do I give my child a phone, a smartphone? how much time should they spend when they are on devices? what, you know, when should they access social media? Those are good questions. I'd love to hear what your thoughts are on that, Jessica, and what, what you've done with your family.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, Josh, I have thoughts. I definitely have thoughts. And first of all, in response, I'll answer your questions here in just a second. But it really strikes me how much the world has changed because I think about my generation, even, which I'm not. You know, I don't think I'm that old. My kids troll me for being born in literally the previous century because it's boggles their mind that I was born in the 1900s. But you know, I think about growing up, I lived with my grandparents for a long time. I mean, we would watch Walter Cronkite or another news media anchor that delivered the, the news in a more factual way than it's done now. Cable news was just in its infancy there. It was just the rise of talk radio where we had all these commentaries. So you would see the facts and you would unpack them with your family and you would talk about them around the dinner table. And you would interpret that through that lens. And now I'm so concerned about the RO of vicarious credibility. It is so easy for an influencer to get credibility. Oh, if so, and so that I respect follows them well then this person must be credible. And they have, we have all of these competing messages, but the one thing that cuts through all of that, the one thing that's more influential is the family relationship. And research shows that if you have a strong relationship, parent, child relationship, that that influence will last all others. And so instead of trying to be the talking heads in our kids lives, we need to be the relationship connector. And then that gives us credibility.
When should kids get a smartphone and when should they get social media?
But to answer your questions, I do have some specific. You said when to get a smartphone, how much time should they spend on it and when should they get social media? I actually have some really simple answers for this. So when should they get a smartphone? First of all, delay it as long as possible. As long as you can. Every family has different situations. There are some families who may be navigating a divorce where parent, you know, kids are going from one household to the other, or other specific situations. Maybe they're working out on the farm and they need a phone, you know, to be able to communicate or that kind of thing. But so look at your family situation. But there actually is a tool that was put together by at&t and by the American Academy of Pediatrics that's actually pretty good. You can search it on the Internet and it talks about developmental readiness. What is, where's the starting point for a conversation on that? So I say as long as possible until at least age 13, longer if you can, and then when your child is developmentally ready. Another important thing for me on this, Josh, is that not every kid in every family is going to be ready at the same age. I think that's a big mistake we make as parents to say, set milestones by age. You can have a smartphone when you're 16. Everybody gets one when they're 16. No, everyone gets one when they're ready. And make it contractual in nature. When you exhibit the, these characteristics, these developmental traits, these responsibilities, then you get this privilege. It's all responsibility and privilege. Question number two, how much time should they spend? This is super interesting because the shift has gone away from time because time restraints really position parents as the phone police. And nobody wants to be the phone police. And every, every place is different. Some kids may have screen time because they're taking an online class, you know, at a, at a community college for dual credit or something. Like that. It's all about why. It's all about the purpose. It's all about what am I trying to accomplish when I am on here. It's about minimizing that mindless scrolling that just, you know, where two or three hours disappear. That's really sobering. Josh. When you say a third of their lives and then the third of their lives they're spending sleeping and then a third of their lives they're spending being human. You've got to eat, you've got to, you know, you've got to have hygiene, you've got to go places and do things. That is, that is really. Technology is a thief of time. Third one, Social media again, as long as possible delay, that shouldn't even be an option till age 13. That is the age set by federal law and the Children's Privacy Act. But Josh, we are so callous as parents to terms of use. We just scroll down to the bottom of that legalese. Yeah, yeah, that's an inconvenience. Click yes. Okay. But if your child gets on a social media platform before the age of 13 and violates that terms of use then you can void any legal protection available to you should something bad happen to your child there. And parents don't intend for that, they don't want that to happen. But if your child has identity issues, social media is going to make it worse. If they have self esteem issues, social media is not going to help. And our kids often will kind of gaslight us if we're being honest like everybody else has it. Mom. And this is affecting me so negatively and I'm missing out and it's really making me feel sad and we just have to be the parent and just say I am. you were given to me by God to steward and I see that you are not ready. So that's, that's the answer to your questions. You have any, any follow ups, anything you want to respond to on that?
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: I love your answer. And delay as long as possible. And I would agree with that a hundred percent. there's so many research statistics out on the impact, just the mental health impact, the impact on a person's self identity and the impact on the sleep and all. I mean there's so many things, the addictive nature of it and they tend to be on the not great side when you start to see those kinds of things. And so I also agree with what you said. You know, what's the purpose for having these things and should there be a good purpose? It makes total sense and you know, these are tools just like any other tool that we have in life. So they do have great value when used properly. but when they're used for entertainment purposes, predominantly when they are used for communication to a. That's a good one. But it could be negative if they're used, our kids can have a whole lot of improper uses, communication wise with them as well. So, with our family, we've gone down the path of, 16 is when they get a cell phone when they drive. And we figure if they can handle, the responsibility of a big vehicle, their own life in their hands, they can do that with a phone as well. And, with social media, we've held off till 18. my, you know, my perspective is essentially, effectively a person's childhood ends when they get on social media and largely on the Internet because the kinds of things they are now, exposed to are. It's the world of adult ideas and it's, it's, it's heavy, it's a lot. And so as a father today, I want to delay that as much as possible until, foundational maturity and in biblical truths are established as much as possible in the hearts and minds of my kids. And the challenge for me. I don't know if you've seen this, Jessica. We did this really well with our older kids. but as they got phones, so we have two of our five have phones at this point. They sit on the couch and all the younger siblings gather around and they look over their shoulders. Now we're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Time out. Like, come on, guys.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Like, it's called shoulder surfing. There's actually a term for that. It's called shoulder surfing. And so people think like, oh, my kid doesn't have a phone. I don't have to worry about that. But shoulder surfing is a thing.
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: Yeah, so we've got the shoulder surfing. I didn't know that was the term for it.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's the term.
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: I learned something new here. yeah. So, you know, then we've had to think through how phones are used by older siblings with younger siblings. And they've had to have some conscience, intentional usage, just to, you know, because some things are totally fine. Like we'll some. Sometimes, you know, some reels on Instagram are hilarious. I mean, we can have a comedy hour just by watching the third 30 second reels. And they're funny. I mean, they are funny. And I, you know, so there's things that. It's great, it's wonderful. I don't I don't mind that. but as I sometimes say, you know, these are like, these are like razor sharp knives and guns and things that, you know, we use regularly in our lives out on our farm, but they can also do a ton of damage. We wouldn't give our kids those kinds of tools without proper guidance and training. And I, in my view, screens today fit in that same kind of category. They are very useful. They're a wonderful tool. Well, when proper training and guidance is given. But we need to treat them with that same level of respect that it can cause as much damage as those other kinds of things in their life.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Life.
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: And if we saw, you know, if we saw a screen with that same, you know, held that same kind of respect for it and said, okay, let's.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Think through, it would change everything. It would change everything. Josh, we're already at our second break. I can't believe that. But I said that, you know, parents are so worried about weapons at school, but almost every child carries in their backpack a weapon that is so powerful because it holds the power of the tongue. And we know what the Bible, what James does tells us about that. And I have so much more to say about that. I love Josh that you delay as long as possible. And setting certain ages allows you the opportunity to strengthen your relationship, to be able to maximize your influence. Listen, we got a lot more about digital discipleship when we come back.
: The AFR app is a powerful tool, but it does have limitations. You can't use it to change the oil in your vehicle or get rid of carpet stains. It won't walk the dog, won't pick up the dry cleaning or take the kids to practice. But while you're doing those things, you can listen to your favorite AFR content through the app on your phone, smart device, or Roku. Just go to your app store or visit afr.net listen to AFR.
: Wherever you go with the AFR app.
Known by Tauren Wells: It'S so unusual it's frightening? You see right through the mess inside me? And you call me out to pull me in? You tell me I can start again and I don't need to keep on hiding? I'm fully known and loved by you? You won't let go no matter what I do? And it's not one or the other? It's hard truth and ridiculous grace to be known fully known and loved by you? I'm fully known and loved by you.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is known by Tauren Wells and hey, this is a powerful Truth today, because kids today are more digitally connected than any generation before them. But what this generation wants more than anything is to be known, to be seen, to be known, to be loved. And we have such a great opportunity as their parents, as their grandparents, as other adults who are in, invested in spiritual formation for Gen Z, Gen Alpha, and the generation already being born behind them, yet to be named, we have such an opportunity for digital discipleship. Now. We have always been invested since the beginning of the spread of the gospel, we have been instructed on how to disciple our families, how to communicate the truths, and how to create a rich legacy, a heritage of faith. But in today's world, that discipleship really needs to ignore, extend to the digital arena. And I'm talking today to Dr. Josh Mulvihill, an author, a speaker, a pastor, a dad, a husband who is living this with five kids of his own. And we're talking about how do we even start? And I think, Josh, you know, once parents recognize this, they tend to just kind of get stuck and get paralyzed by fear. And we need to move that awareness to action. Now, every family is a little bit different. And we've even talked about how our families have been a little bit different. But the, the commonality is being intentional in the approach. And Josh, I have been that family. My husband and I have been that family. My kids know what they will call as the humiliation of a flip phone. They had a flip phone before they got a smartphone because we gave them responsibility in that incremental period. And yes, it was true. All their friends around them had a, a smartphone. But we had already established that we, as your parents, have been given to this great privilege, this great blessing of raising you. And we are going to steward that in the best way that we know. And what I know from research is that those uniqueness, those. My family does things this way and confidence in that identity, it's actually good for kids. And they can know that, yeah, my family is weird. We do it this way, but I'm confident in that. So we never had TVs in the bedroom. We always had computers out in a communal space where anybody could walk by. There was never any private streaming. We always have phones checked in in the kitchen. Nobody has their phone under the covers. Looking at things in the dark of night when you know that pull for and temptation. And you talked about, you know, the exposure that they have. Josh, one of the things that I really think about that we don't think about enough, I think is the responsibility that they have, because when they See their friends for example saying making claims of you know, ah, of self harm like saying I want to harm myself. Then once you see that you have a responsibility to act that. And 13, 14 year old kids are usually not ready for that.
Josh: Having clarity on why you have media in your home is really helpful
And so Josh, I would love for you to talk about just kind of that transition from awareness to action. Like where can, how can you encourage families to just take that stand and, and not to look at it as a limitation, as being the phone police. But how these boundaries, these healthy boundaries are actually the path to freedom, to spiritual freedom.
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: Well I love the some of the principles that you just mentioned and I think those are super good, super healthy to have and I would encourage families to have those kinds of things in place both to help children and protect them. You know most of the stuff that our kids find online, they're not doing it at least to begin. There's no, you know, many of them it finds them. There's just, they're just online doing their thing and boom, this stuff finds them. And and, and then they go down a rabbit hole as they get exposed to it. And so you're you know protecting from that is is important. But you know your question, how do we move into action? I think having clarity on why you have media in your home is really helpful. You mentioned the why and that intentionality is critical. Is it for entertainment, is it for communication, is it for homework, is it for you know, what purpose? Is it actually work related? you know there's different usage and you know if it's a lot of our usage is entertainment based and those that specific usage in our home, we use it for that at times but we greatly limit that and we want other alternatives. you know we are, you know our usage goes up right now this time of year in Minnesota it's below zero today it's super cold. and so these times, you know, then you know we'll gather around and we'll probably. We're our family loves to show. All Creatures Great and small just released again for the year, the new season. And you know we'll watch stuff like that at this time of year getting into the, you know the warmer months of the year, we find replacements for for screens and I think that's a good alternative for our kids. there's a phrase you can, if you're going to take a bone from a dog, give a dog a bone with more meat. I think I've even mentioned that here before. but it's good. As a reminder, there are. If we're going to take screens out of our kids lives, let's put something better in place and for our family that's outdoors. There's so many wonderful things outdoors. That's books. We try to, we try to put great books in front of our kids. We have a library in our house. Literally a room that's just floor to ceilings with books. And we read a lot. And when we discover the joy that's in pages and we discovered the beauty that's outside, and the things that we can do with hobbies and enjoyment. Screens, kind of lose their luster a little bit. It. Because a lot of what happens in screens is really living vicariously through someone else in a simulated adventure. And so if we can replace that with our own life adventures, both in the pages of books and in real life, you know, there's not as much draw when we see that on a screen. And with our family we, that's part of why we've moved to a farm. We live an adventurous life. We could literally be a reality, reality TV show with what we deal with literally. Like when I'm, I love getting texts. I'm getting texts from my son and wife as I'm right now that the. We had to give water to our cows and it, the water froze because it's so cold out. No, you know, like this is just our life. It's this.
Dr. Jessica Peck: That's awesome. Ah.
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: You know, we don't, we don't need to watch this on the screen because we're living now. That's not everybody. but we have chosen to And sometimes we feel like man and there's a little too much excitement in our life and that's, you know, that's okay. But I would say what's the. Why, what's the intentional use of media that is in your life? we do want to limit some screen usage. So I'm not going to say what that looks like for each family. I think that's a question that we need to discuss. But what I think screens have replaced relationships for kids. Kids today, that's a big deal. And so I think we need to just monitor how our kids are doing relationally and with communication and engaging with other people. And if that's being replaced by screens, we especially want to limit the usage on that front for the flesh and blood kinds of relationships that we have. And so I, you know there's other reasons as well. We would limit but that's, you know, that's a big one. and I would say, you know, as parents, none of us like to, disappoint our kids. We don't, you know, we want to see them happy. But this is an area where I think we need some backbone at times with our parents because the request, you know, the requests are endless and the onslaughts are ongoing and it just, just wears you down as a parent. and so I think if we can have, you know, a predetermined plan and communicate that graciously and then enforce that consistently. What are our boundaries? that becomes less of a, you know, less of a decision that has to be made on the spot versus trying to negotiate some usage all the time. So if you've not as a, you know, as a parent or, you know, as a couple kind of sat down and thought, what is our. What are our boundaries? How do we want media used in our home? That would be a good thing to sit and actually, what's your plan? Have a plan and then implement the plan so it's not a fly by the seat of your pants.
Monitor the messaging that your kids are exposed to in media
the last piece I'll mention here with this is, monitor the messaging that's happening in the media that your kids are exposed to. So the principle for my wife and I is wherever our kids are in media, we want to be there as well. And that takes a lot of commitment and a lot of time. so we try to listen to the music they're listening to. We want to be watching the things they're watching. We want to, you know, this isn't an invasive way. and we're not sermonized. You know, we're not sermonizing all the stuff as, you know, as they are listening and watching. But we want to know if is this healthy for them to be engaged with it primarily. And sometimes we get to have a lot of fun because we're watching, listening to the same things, and it's enjoyable and it builds family culture that way. and other times we say, okay, you know, there's probably some better things out there for you. What, what could those alternatives be than, you know, one of my sons wanted to listen to Morgan Wallen, who has some really catchy music. he has a lot of music that sings about drug or alcohol and sexual lyrics and some swearing. Not a ton, but enough that I'm like, you know, there's probably a better alternative than Morgan. His m. His music's just got some low level stuff in it that's just, you Know, this doesn't align with what I would see in Scripture. Is there a better alternative out there? And yes, there is.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Is.
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: Let's find those. And so, you know, we're having those kinds of conversations regularly with our kids. And I'm sure as parents, it's helpful to guide our kids into some, Some good options. And there are tons out there. There's a lot of good media that we can, we can utilize as families.
Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, it's just so encouraging just to hear your personal testimony, Josh, of living this out, because these are tough conversations and these are tough boundaries to. To have, but just to hear about, hey, here. This is how we're wrestling it out. You know, not walking it perfectly, but being intentional and thinking about it. And I thought of three things as you were talking. First is, parents do need to have a backbone and let their yes be yes and their no be no. I have seen so much negotiating that goes on with parents and just like you said, wearing them down. But if you just make a habit of, you know, of taking time, if you need time to make your decisions and think, okay, I need to think about this. I'll give you an answer tomorrow morning, and then that's it. Like, I'm going to talk about it. I'm going to seek wisdom. I'm going to talk to your dad. I'm going to, you know, talk to the other parents involved or whatever it is, and just making that your yes be yes and your no be no. That has been really transformational for me. And just being comfortable that sometimes your response makes your kids uncomfortable emotionally, that's okay. And I tell them I love you enough to let you be upset about that. That's okay. And one day you're gonna see it my way. I hope and I pray, but I'm comfortable enough to say no. That's the first thing I thought. The second thing, oh, my goodness, Josh. I cannot even cheer along enough in providing a, compelling alternative. And you're right, maybe not everybody can move to a farm in Minnesota, but wherever you are, I'll give you an example. Really lived out for my family just over the holiday break. So I have a son who's in college, and he invited some friends over. I made brownies because I know if you feed them, they will come. You know, it's really that simple. You just make food. And I was working myself on a jigsaw puzzle. And, so they came, they were curious because this. These kinds of things make Gen Z curious because it wasn't a screen and so they sat down, started eating brownies, started doing the puzzle with me. The next thing I knew, we were playing Trivial Pursuit. And then they asked, my son, hey, can we do that again? That was really fun. M playing Trivial Pursuit with your family. And they came over and that's like, become our thing. Oh, hey, can we have a family night with your family and make brown brownies, do a puzzle and play Trivial Pursuit? Kids want connection. So providing that alternative. There's so much that you can do in leading your family, whether that's saying, hey, I'm going on a walk. Kids are curious. They may want to go with you. It can be just that simple. It can't just be, get off your phone, get off your phone, get off your phone while we're sitting there on our phone. The third thing I thought is exactly what you said. Affirming. Being involved in their media sources, listening to what they're listening to. It's one of the reasons why it's good to delay it as long as possible and having those conversations and asking questions like, how does this music artist, how do their lyrics align with your spiritual values? And sometimes they just don't. And asking those questions are really great ways to go. Well, Josh, again, once again, we're running out of time here, but I'm so grateful to you and to your wife, to your family for just trying to live out your. Your, your walk with Christ and to be intentional about helping your children develop a biblical worldview. Once again. You can listen back to the series that Josh and I did last year, Worldview Wednesday. Josh, tell us once again what the name of your podcast is and where to find it.
Dr. Josh Mulvihill: It's the Gospel Shaped Family Podcast. Anywhere podcasts are available.
Dr. Jessica Peck: So if you want to hear more about how. How do you feed the cows when the water is frozen? Let me tell you, we don't have that problem here in Texas. Now, the cows may get out on the road quite a bit. We actually do have a lot of problems with cows that can come up, but not that the water is frozen. Listen, wherever you are in your journey to provide digital discipleship, to be a good influence to individual influence your child's worldview, to help them cultivate a worldview wherever you are, in that I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make your. Make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you. We are holding out hope for you and we are continuing to offer help for you. There is hope in this world. We can be the light of Christ as such, a hope. Listen, I'll see you right back here next time. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion. And every day their network clinics rescue 200 babies lives. We join PreBorn in loving and supporting young moms in crisis. Save a life today. Go to preborn.com/AFR the views and.
Jeff Chamblee: Opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
