Transcript

Dr. Jessica Peck prescribes Hope for Healthy Families on American Family Radio

>>  : Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. I appreciate you joining me on this Tuesday, wherever you are. I pray that you're having a good day and a good start to the summer. And we had a great start to the summer even yesterday. I'm still thinking about the testimony of Joe and Cindy Ferrini who shared about their now 45 year old son who was born with special needs. It was really a very special heartwarming episode and made my husband tear up a little bit at work and so we had to talk about that. He said, you didn't prepare me. That really got my heart. But that's exactly what we wanted to do.

We're talking about children who are often called prodigal children

And today we're going to talk about something that is kind of tough, but something that I know is impacting a lot of families today. And so I want to approach this topic with a lot of love and care. But we're talking about one of the painful realities that many families face. But really a few, just a few of them feel very comfortable discussing this openly. We're talking about children who are often called prodigal children. Children who walk away from their faith, reject their family's values, reject their spiritual heritage, choose make choices that are destructive and painful. And this is a burden that many families carry. I know because I talked to families in my own church and my own community. Even recently when I was talking with a, co worker who all of a sudden shared what was going on with their family. And it's just so heartbreaking and it's really difficult because we live in a culture that celebrates personal trut and radical autonomy. And I know this is really hard, but I've talked about this before. I've walked this path myself. And we do live in a culture where we're too quick to cut off relationships because we're primed for instant gratification. And we can avoid communication that feels uncomfortable. We even have words for it in our vocabulary, like ghosting people or just not responding to their text, unfriending them, just walking away, saying, hey, I've got to put some boundaries there. And the idea, that idea is, is, is one side of the equation. On the other side of the equation, there are people who walk away and you wish that they wouldn't and you're Just heartbroken. As you watch your kids walk away from your. Your family values, they abandon their faith, embrace destructive relationships, or just make choices that you think, how in the world are they making these choices? Because this is not how I raised them. At the same time, I know that there are a lot of parents and grandparents who carry an enormous burden of guilt thinking, well, where did it go wrong? What did I do? What? Where did I go wrong? But the truth is, waywardness in any form is not a new phenomenon. Scripture is filled with stories of wandering hearts, from the prodigal son and the parable told by Jesus to Jonah to Peter to all kinds of stories throughout the Bible. But today's parents are navigating these challenges amid unprecedented cultural pressures. And somehow it feels like it's more on display because we have more on social media. And people wonder, like, where are your kids? Why are they not in the picture? And why do you see them? You know, I see you with these kids, but not with these kids. Well, our guest today is a friend of the show, someone who's been on many times, and we've had some really good heart to heart conversations. We're here with Lori Wildenberg, author of Messy Journey, how, Grace and Truth Offer the Prodigal Away Home. Lori is a licensed parent and family educator, a coach, a national speaker, she's co founder of First Corinthians 13 Parenting, and she's the author of seven books focused on parenting, grandparenting, mental health, and family relationships. She is warm m. She is approachable, she's transparent, and she has a deeply biblical perspective. And she is here today to talk with me, to offer hope to all of you who are walking through this as one of life's most difficult journeys.

 Why do children sometimes stray? How do parents respond

So today we're going to talk about why do children sometimes stray? How do parents respond with both grace and truth, and most of all, how families can maintain hope while trusting God with outcomes they cannot control. Lori, I'm so glad to have you back. Thanks so much for stopping by today and spending some time with us.

>> Lori Wildenberg: Jessica, I am thrilled to be with you. I'm so happy to be here. And I love it, how our hearts align. And we got to see each other at nrb, which was really amazing. And every time I put on my blowfish shoes, I think of you. Because we like the same kind of shoes. Shoes.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: We do. That's right. Yes. We both had the same blowfish Malibu sneakers.

>> Lori Wildenberg: I love that.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: I mean, our shoes match where our feet are going, where our hearts are going in the same Place. And Lori, just hearing your voice, that already makes me smile. And it makes it easier to talk about a topic that's so tender for so many people. And, you know, you and I are both parents. You're a grandparent. I. I hope to be a grandparent one day. And every parent imagines a certain future for their child right from the. Even before you have children, you dream, Dre. And then you invest years of love and prayer and teaching and sacrifice. And yet sometimes they make, children make choices that just are so contrary to that.

 How Grace and Truth Offer the Prodigal Away Home

So let's start with you. Your story. What inspired you to write this book? What did you see? What did you experience? Where did you meet parents where they are?

>> Lori Wildenberg: Oh, gosh, all good questions. And, what inspired me to write the book is that, the Messy Journey. How Grace and Truth Offer the Prodigal Away home. we adopted our oldest. And now everything that I'm going to say here, I want all the listeners to know. It is completely fine with every one of my family members. And in fact, my, quote, unquote prodigal helped me write Messy Journey, How Grace and Truth Offer the Prodigal Away Home. So know that I'm not talking behind anyone's back. well, I was inspired to write it because we did have a prodigal. And, when our. Our oldest daughter was, probably in around, I'm going to say, well, she was preschool age, the Lord gave me a heads up that she was going to struggle with her identity. And I also had a sense that she may also struggle with her sexuality. And so we prayed against this. And. And, one of the things that the Lord had shown me was my daughter had asked me, so, mom, you know, who are the girls on Sesame Street? And at the time it was Prairie. Don was the only girl, and all the interesting characters were boys. And that was a moment I knew it was a moment that was important to my daughter. And partly because she is adopted and has and felt like she didn't have a lot of control in her destiny, so to speak. her birth mom had had control in the terms of deciding to make an adoption plan. We had control in deciding to adopt. But the adoptee doesn't. Doesn't get a say. And I think that that has played a lot into some of her. Some of her psyche regarding, identity issues. But we prayed and prayed against her struggling with her identity, and we prayed against any sort of same sex attraction. Well, as my daughter got into, you know, middle school and high school, we would have conversations here and there about what she might be struggling with. And you know, we were, the two of us had a lot of hard conversations, but they were, they were fairly honest. Well then she went off to college and that was the, the time where she started exploring some other things, shall we say. And even though she was brought up, we quote unquote, trained her in the way she should go, right? It, I sort of felt like, gosh, God, you know, we kept up our part of the bargain. Don't you keep up your part of the bargain? We did our part, but I've come to understand that Proverbs is a set of wise saying. They're not promises, but they're wise sayings. And so then I also realized a little bit later, looking back, that perhaps the Lord showed us this early on in our daughter's life so that we, we, my husband and I, would be prepared when things came to fruition with her rather than prevention. He was preparing us. And I had discovered she was in a particular same sex relationship while she was in college. And so I drove up to her school, which was a couple, couple hours away, to chat with her and to find out just how she was doing and what was going on. And I was, I was also prepared that I perhaps might end up meeting, you know, her at the time, girlfriend. so anyway, we, we went and I got to her dorm and I was thankful she was there. And then I asked if she wanted to go out for breakfast and she was quite puzzled as to why I might be at her dorm on a Sunday that was two hours from our home. And I said, well, I just, you know, want to see you. And, and I was prepared that we, you know, might, I might meet her, her girlfriend. And she did ask if her, her friend could come and I said sure. And Jessica, I'm sorry to say that I was I was kind of prepared to have a really bad feelings about this young woman that I was about to meet. And God completely melted my heart when I met her. I, what I saw before me was another young person who was struggling with many things, just like my daughter. And I had a great heart for her. And then my daughter barely ate her breakfast and we, we dropped her friend off at her apartment. And then my daughter and I went for a walk and she was so nervous and I thought, I'm just going to take this off the table because she doesn't know where I'm, I'm not going to put her through having. Just to tell me I'm going to break the ice here. And I said, I know you guys are in a relationship. And then she started crying and, you know, everything spilled out. And she said, I. Are you going to take me out of school? And I said, no, you know, we're not going to do that. you know what God's best is for you. And you also, know that this is between you and the Lord. So, we just sort of, we left it there. But that was, that was the beginning of, of the journey of her, stepping away from what the faith that she grew up with and the, the morals and the values that, you know, our family held. That was kind of the, the beginning of that. And I praise God for giving us a heads up because as I went through and wrote the book Messy Journey, many parents don't have that heads up. And so their first and initial reaction to whatever the prodigal issue is, whether it be, you know, drugs or some sort of addiction or pornography or atheism, whatever, they're wandering, you know, wherever they're wandering brings them, they don't necessarily respond well the first time that they discover the, the path that their, their person, their loved one is on. And I am very thankful to the Lord that he, he had prepared me so that, that I was ready to be able to speak with my daughter without being angry, but just to have a, loving and grace filled and truth filled conversation with her. So that, that was the beginning of this.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Lori, I am so grateful for you sharing something so tender and I'm really grateful that you clarified that you have your daughter's permission and blessing and sharing her story. That is a really important part of this. And I know we're coming up on our first break here, but I know our listeners are wondering, well, how did this turn around? How did she help you write the book? How did you get that reconciliation, that resolution, wherever it is? And when we come back, I promise I'll ask you about that and we'll talk about that, how that happened, because I know there are many families who are still waiting for that.

Lori, there are so many families struggling with this issue

But Lori, I also know there are so many families who are struggling with this and there's so much shame and secrecy that comes along with it and so, so many families I see that feel like they are walking through this alone. And I think the title of your book, Messy Journey, really perfectly describes it because there is no perfect journey, There is no perfect answer. There's no storybook, ending for this. It's still pain. But God uses pain God never wastes pain. And we'll talk some more about that, about how. I know a lot of parents feel really powerless. What do you do in balancing grace and truth without losing your relationship? We'll talk about that when we come back.

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>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Making well with my m soul don't let me face this loneliness alone Making well with my soul I need a peace that only heaven knows. Jesus, could you please just sit and cry with me till I can sing? Till I can sing. It is well well with my soul it is well with my m soul Whatever my life, you are still my m God it is well it is

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: well with my soul welcome back, friends. That is make it well by mercy me.

When a child makes destructive choices as an adult, there is very little

And we're touching on a tender topic today. And that is the prayer. I know that song is the prayer of many of your hearts. I know many of you out there are experiencing children who have wandered away, who are what we would call prodigal, who are making choices that are contrary to the way that you feel like you raised them, the values that you gave them. And here's a heart, A, really hard truth. When a child makes destructive choices as an adult, there is very little that we can do about it. You cannot control their choices much of the time, but one thing that you can control is how you respond to those choices. And we're talking today with Lori Wildenberg, an author who has walked this journey. In the first segment, she shared her own very personal journey with her daughter. With her daughter's blessings, she shared her story of that. And she's the author of Messy Journey, How Grace and Truth Offer the Prodigal Away Home. And one of the biggest tensions in, all of this is balancing grace and truth without compromising either one. Sometimes we wander to too much grace, sometimes it's too much truth. How do we balance those things? We tend to just drift towards one extreme or the other. And sometimes you become overly permissive or, you compromise your own values because you don't, you don't want to lose the relationship. And sometimes you tighten control and you become increasingly confrontational because you're so ready to fight for that. And Lori argues that the biblical model isn't grace or truth. It is grace and truth.

You said that your daughter helped you write this and has given you permission

And Lori, I promised that I would ask about the resolution of this. You said that your daughter helped you write this and has spoken into this, given you permission to share her story. And I know there's so many families out there who do not have that but long for it so much. How did it happen in your family?

>> Lori Wildenberg: Well, first I want to say that, we don't have the wonderful bow to wrap around it and say that, you know, she's married and has three kids. You know, we aren't there. And, perhaps that isn't where her story is going to go. But what we do focus on is because, as I said earlier in the segment, this was between her and the Lord. And God desires holiness. It's not that she has to be heterosexual. She needs to be holy. And what, what is holy? And that may not involve her being in, a traditional marriage, as we think of may be that, like Paul, she's going to be single. And, and that is, you know, also a, blessing. Sometimes we, we think that, okay, well, the end of the story is that it all gets resolved. Sometimes it doesn't fully get resolved because there's a sin propensity there and it's. And to avoid the sinning, and that. That's the thing. But that's kind of. That can be such a struggle to, to avoid our sin propensities. And we all have them. And I think that is the attitud to embrace. So if we can maintain, I would say, relationship with our loved ones who have stepped off the path. And one way to do that is through humility. That is knowing that we all have been a prodigal at one time or another. Now, we might not have the same struggles, but we've all been a prodigal, every single one of us. And if you look through Scripture, the only one that really did not struggle with wandering off was that I can see, was Jesus. everyone else had at least something going on with them. Even, even Joseph in the Old Testament, you know, he. He was bragging about, you know, the coat. The coat that he had and the dreams that he was having. And so these. These are things that I think we need to remember to have that humility and. And to walk in grace and truth. And one example in Scripture, I think is so powerful that totally demonstrates grace and truth is when the woman was going to be stoned and Jesus was drawing in the sand, and then he said, you know, he who has the. Who's, you know, not sinned or whatever can cast the first stone. So he was demonstrating grace to the woman. He was also demonstrating truth to those who wanted to stone her. And then when they dropped their stones and walked away, and then he said that whoever, no one was there that was condemning her any longer, but go and sin no more. So there was truth to her too. So she got the. Both the grace and the truth. And that is how the Lord wants to work with us.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Lori, when you talked earlier about, about the. The scripture train up a child in the way he should go when he is old, he will not depart from it. You made a really important distinction. And I think this plays into this because we often treat that as a promise. And it's not a promise. It's wisdom. It's wisdom, Scripture. And so often I think that, you know, we take on as parents this air of entitlement with God. We really do. If we're really honest with it, we think, okay, if I do this, then God, you will do this. And that is. That's just not the way that the world works. And like you said, you know, you had, you felt like you had some, some. Some messaging from the Lord, said to prepare your heart, you know, for the struggle that was ahead. Sometimes that happens, sometimes that doesn't. But how do we address that? Because there's a lot of parents who feel angry and maybe even feel bitter towards God like I did everything right. How could you let this happen to me? What do we do with those very honest, very human feelings that are very normal and really we see those reflected in scriptures that just all throughout the Psalms. But how do we reset our heart and attitude towards God on entitlement and expecting that our kids should show up, you know, and grow up? Great.

>> Lori Wildenberg: I think it's such an honest emotion when we're like that. You know, does seem like if you've done it right, it ought to turn out right. And sometimes God's going to use things like that. I, I believe that he's using our journey to help other families who are, are going through hard, you know, hard journeys where there's a wayward child or you know, a loved one who's decided that they're turning against faith. And yeah, I think we can grieve that. We can grieve those expectations that that is a loss and it's okay to grieve that. And I think that we should. But I also think we shouldn't sit there because so often we get mad because we're sad, right? That mad's a little more powerful emotion, but often it's a secondary emotion and often it is birthed out of grief or sadness. That is often one of the emotions that brings up anger. And so, yeah, go ahead and grieve that. But I would encourage people not to stick there, not to camp at that grief place, but to look at. Okay, what is the reality, what is the reality of the makeup of my child? The makeup of my child is that that her sin propensity is she is same sex attracted. Now I want, I'm not going to call her gay or homosexual and I'll tell you why. Because that's calling her and identifying her by her sin. And I will say she's same sex attracted. just as you know, I would say that someone is struggling with their faith versus maybe calling them an atheist. I think it's, it's important that we don't call people by their sin. And I, that is one thing that we can do. But as far as like dealing with those expectations, okay, we had them, maybe we even name what they are and then decide, okay, Lord, use me. How do I respond in this situation? Because often the anger at God also comes back to the why? Like we're asking, what, why is this happening? Why is this happening to me? I did everything right. Why? Why is this happening? I, you know, I prayed for my child. Why is it happening? But rather than ask why? Perhaps we need to change the question up and to ask how, okay, Lord, how can you use me in this situation?

It's hard to walk the tightrope between grace and truth

How can I be a, bridge back to you in this particular struggle? Because whatever the struggle is, it is not against the parents, although it might appear to be, but it is really against the Lord and his word and his statutes. So we want to maintain relationship as much as we can, as much as it depends on us to find those. To put all that frustration, that grief, that anger into figuring out ways to connect with our prodigal child and to. To find that, find those places which. It could be as simple as a dad going to a ball game with a son. It could be as simple as that. when Courtney and I go out and she had to put a little boundary on me because every time we were together alone, I think, okay, now's my chance to talk about this stuff with her and to, you know, get in just a little bit more of, you know, why I believe what I believe, or try to feel like I'm moving her rather than the Lord moving her, me participating in moving her in the right direction. And she'd say, mom, we're going to go out for lunch, and we're going to have a nice time, and we're not going to talk about all these things right now. And the truth is, she knows what we believe, and she actually believes what we believe, but she struggles with that. And so we don't have to talk about it all the time, because she knows and we know. she has told us that. What has been very helpful to her is that Thom and I have never given up. We've always, you know, persevered through the whole thing. And that's what throughout the book on, at the end of each chapter, I have never give up because that's. Courtney said that that has been the most important thing and equally as important is that we have always been consistent. And I had told her, courtney, if you can find where in Scripture all of this is good with God, believe me, it would be so much easier for me to jump on only grace and be good with all of. Is so hard to walk the tightrope of grace and truth. It. That is one of the hardest things to do and. Or even, you know, just like you said, come down really hard on truth. but either way, you know, one is too harsh and the other one isn't true. And so you. You can't do either one. But what you need to do is to build that relationship. And when I, When I think of scripture, you know, I wonder sometimes, well, when do I talk and when do I leave it be? And I've realized that I have to be in constant prayer regarding that. Because if you look at the prod, this, the prodigal father, the son of the prodigal who left and took his inheritance and squandered it, the dad actively waited. He waited for his son to return. He actively waited and hoped. And yet, when there was a lost sheep, the shepherd left the 100 and went. Went, left the 99 and went after the 1. So sometimes you chase them down and sometimes you actively wait. And it all depends on how the Lord is moving you. And I have discovered that a lot of times we are to do the opposite of our natural inclination and let God do the rest. But it can change moment by moment. Okay, Lord, is this, Is this time for extending grace and compassion or is this one of those times where it's a, go and sin no more kind of a conversation? You know, I don't know, Lori, you.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: You've covered so many important points. And when we talk about balancing grace and truth, I think it's important for parents to really accept the fact that, that they are going to mess that up. They are going to, they're. You're just going to, you're going to make mistakes. And you talked about having humility earlier, Lori, and I think that's really important when you over extend grace. And then, you know, maybe there's a misinterpretation of that or you over emphasize truth. And then there's, there's resentment or hurt that comes from that. You just have to constantly apologize. And that can be hard for parents to do when they feel like, no, but my child is the one in the wrong, so I'm doing the best that I can in this world. Horrible situation. I shouldn't have to apologize. But I remember you saying before, Lori, in one of our other conversations, to even own your 1%, even if it's 1%, even if it's.001%, you own that and you just constantly walk in humility. Another important thing that you talked about was that identity language. I talk about that all the time. And that is applicable for any parent of any age and stage, prodigal, rebellious or not. We can have really great kids, kids who struggle with one thing. And once we start using that identity language, why are you such a liar? Why are you so lazy? Why are you so disrespectful? Why are you just so unsuccessful? They will believe that identity, that we speak over them and the, the thought of never giving up. I really believe that kids need to see in our eyes a reflection of God's image of them, of the way that God sees them. And God never gives up on us. God always hopes because he is God is love. And love always protects, always perseveres, always hopes. And love never, ever gives up. and when we come back, we'll talk more about dealing with the, the grace and that with grace and grit. Be right back after this break.

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>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Through the darkest night in the hardest time through the valley The Lord held on to me When I'd had enough? Almost given up in my weakness The Lord held on me. What a God you are. You are strong and true. There is none more faithful and there is none like you. What a God you are. Your presence is secure. nothing is for certain. Your promises are sure. What a God you are. What a God you are.

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How do you balance grace and truth when life is messy

And that's exactly what we're doing, talking about how is God good even when it seems like your circumstances aren't? Today, we're taking a very careful look at parents and families who struggle with children, who walk away from their faith, who rebel, who make choices that are contrary to your family values. How do you balance grace and truth? And today I'm talking to Lori Wildenberg about that. She's the author of a book called called Messy Journey. And it is messy. There is, like, Lori said, there is no bow wrapped around this. You don't. I found that in these journeys. By the way, her book is called Messy Journey how grace and truth offer the prodigal a way home. And I've learned that many times when people are sharing their story, it's not because they have all the answers and they figured it out and they're going to give you. Here's this path of what you can do to make your life perfect again. They have found the courage to say, hey, my life is not perfect. But here's how I found help and hope and healing along the way. And here are the ways that I have found that God is still good, even when it seems like life is not. And Lori, I mean, before the break, you were just dropping a lot of truth bombs there. A lot of things that are really hard to hear, but that are really important.

How do you deal with the personal emotions and your own personal healing

And I've said many times through this, I think there are a lot of parents who feel very alone in this because they want healthy boundaries and biblical truth, because that matters. But the relationship matters. And if you lose the connection, you lose the opportunity for influence. And a lot of times what I see is parents feeling so alone and so ashamed, they just. They can't even talk about it. And I think their kids inherently know that. We talked a lot about identity. How do you start to deal with the owner personal hurt that you have and just that part of your life that feels like it's just a corner of your light that all of a sudden the lights just go out. Like it's just dark. It's there, but it's not really there. How do you deal with the personal emotions and your own personal healing? Aside from just healing the relationship, which of course that's what we all want, how do you work on healing yourself?

>> Lori Wildenberg: I am so glad you asked this question. I was actually really thinking that.

Jessica Early talks about the shame parents feel when their children stray from expected path

Oh, boy, I hope we get a chance to talk about some of that shame that we feel when our kids have wandered off the expected path. There is a lot of shame and. Oh, my goodness. And I think it shows up almost more in the church, which is so, we are meant to be there for each other and to, to encourage one another and to build one another up and to pray for each other. But yet when our kids wander off the expected pat, suddenly there's a multitude of things that happen with a parent. They feel shame that they maybe didn't raise them correctly, even though they thought that they were. You know, there's. That they did something wrong thought, or there's. There's the thought that, people will think less of them because of what their child is involved in, or they will think less of their child, I mean, no matter what. But we are the parents of the prodigals, and parents are protective of their kids and they don't want people thinking badly of their children. So what happens is they kind of go underground. The parents do. I had done a class at my church, regarding prodigals, and they didn't have to be. There were some people there that had, Young people who were prodigals because they were involved with, you know, various activities like either porn or gosh. One was into gambling. you know, all kinds of different things. Stepping off, off of, you know, believing in, you know, Christianity, maybe going towards something else or, or perhaps maybe they were same sex attracted or were struggling with identity type issues. And, and we went around the class and each couple gave their story and one couple gave their story and we went around and everyone else finished with theirs. And then we came back to that first couple because the the father or the, the husband raised his hand and he said, I want you to know this is the first time we have spoken of this outside of our home.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Home.

>> Lori Wildenberg: And I said, well, how long has your daughter been struggling with her, with her struggles? Right? Seven years.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Wow.

>> Lori Wildenberg: They were so afraid of talking about what was going on in their home because of the great shame that they carried and also wanting to be protective of their child, their young adult child. Child. We've got to get past that because believers are. What do we say? We're saved sinners. Right? We're still sinners, but we're saved sinners. And to have that attitude and realize when, when I work with parents, you know, it's easy for a parent to say, well, you know, my, my two year old is having temper tantrums terms. They, they might not have trouble admitting that when the, when the kids get a little bit older and then the issues get bigger and kind of end up into that moral and value kind of, kind of box, that category, they are less and less likely to speak about it. Now you have to be smart in who you talk to. Obviously you have to figure out who you're, who your tribe is that you could ask for prayer or, and I think that's really important to be able to, in order to move, move past that being stuck place that you were talking about, Jessica, where you know, you're sitting in that either anger or great grief or shame in order to move past that. Prayer is one of the critical components. And sometimes we just can't pray because we are, it's just too much. And we've prayed and prayed and we feel frustrated because the Lord hasn't answered us. It's so. Or hasn't appeared to answer us. And it's so important that we have other believers surrounding us because sin is sin and we do not need to be grading it and be thinking which one is worse. That's not our business. We just need to be able to say, here's what's going on with a trusted group of people who will be able to receive things with both grace and truth. Because if, if you're going to get someone who says, well, what, you know, what are you worried about that for? Wouldn't bother me if that was in my family. Right. That that's not helpful, you know, or to have somebody else shame you and say, well, this isn't God's design. That's not how things are meant to be. You know, that's hard, too.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: It is hard, Lori. And, you know, I have a lot of brokenness in my own family, and I. Early on, it's really hard. It's really hard when people ask you about a specific person and you, you know, you don't really know what to say because maybe you're estranged, maybe it's strained, maybe they're making choices like, how do you even say that? And I found a lot of comfort in just giving a very simple explanation and saying, you know, I'm not sure our relationship is strained right now. They're having some struggles. I'd appreciate your prayers. And if they press for details, just say, you know, the details are, are between us. But I do appreciate your prayers and I, I would appreciate that. And just saying that and it just kind of like, just made it go away. Like, it wasn't like I. I didn't feel like I was being dishonest and like, lying and saying, like, oh, they're fine, they're fine, when it's all like, they're not fine. And then there were some people, Lori, who would really step through that. Some people I trusted, some people who really loved us and who would follow up and say, hey, I'm still praying for that. Hey, I really care about that. Hey, I. I want to check in and see how you're doing. And that's really beautiful.

Relationships with your other children can be collateral damage when conflict arises

And one of the hard things that I have seen, Lori, is that sometimes it's hard for married couples to even talk about this with each other because you may disagree with how to handle something. You may disagree over a boundary or what the balance is between grace and truth. What advice do you have for fighting for your marriage? Because I know that this kind of conflict comes after marriages with a vengeance.

>> Lori Wildenberg: Oh, my goodness, this is so hard. Because other relationships, marriages and also relationships with your other children can be collateral damage.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Yes.

>> Lori Wildenberg: And, well, I'll start with the kids because that's the easiest one to start with. But if, if you're noticing that your other children are, are really suffering because all of your attention has now been diverted over to the prodigal. All your energy, all your worries, all your concern, because everybody else seems to be fine. You got to put a stop to that because we have to remember that the Lord has given us, if you've got more than one kiddo, that each little soul in your house is important and not to let those relationships go by the wayside. I remember there was one situation where things had blown up at our house, and it wasn't even this particular issue, but it was, it was a big issue. And I was supposed to have plans with one of my girls to go shopping for a dress for promotion. Now, on one hand I wanted to say, let's reschedule this dress thing because of all this stuff going on. And I just heard from the Lord, don't do that. Because that person that, was going through the issue, the, the issue, sadly, was going to wait for us. And. Yeah, and I needed to be able to put energy and importance into that other child. So, so not to let that difficult, that, that really energy sucking relationship suck the energy out of your relationship with the rest of the family, including your marriage. And what Thom and I, well, I kind of finally figured out is that guys want to solve the problem. That that is their deal. And of course I'd like the problem to be solved too, but there are some problems that the Lord. It's just up to the Lord and we can't solve that problem. And so if I would come to my husband constantly and want to talk about this issue at length and, you know, look at it maybe from all different perspectives and like I can do with a girlfriend. Right? that's not something for our, for the men, they, they don't. It. It almost breaks their heart because they can't fix it. They can't make it better. So they go through so much more stress if we, you know, their wives do that. So what I realized is it was more important for me to give my husband, I would say, the cliff notes of what was going on. And then I've got a prayer partner who I completely trust, one who I, I wouldn't have to say, you know, God knows the details. We'll trust him with the prayer. Right? But I would be able to tell her everything because she was a confidant, someone that I could trust. She was my person that I could talk to at length about it. And she would be, she would do that with me. She would listen and we'd have these conversations and it didn't cause her stress or angst like it would cause my husband, for him, he would need to get out and be with his guy friends and maybe go fishing, do some activity. For me, it would be maybe going for a walk with a girlfriend and talking about things. And regarding boundaries, I think, of course boundaries are meant for the boundary setter because you can't control how the one who's receiving the boundaries is going to respond. So the boundaries need to be for us. How are we going to respond? say, for instance, your child is, is into, maybe drugs and you've noticed that they've been stealing money from you or, or they're asking for money for something, but it's really for drugs. So a boundary may be, well, we don't give them money. You know, there's, that's a, that's a boundary that we can enforce or we can, you know, keep things out of the, the realm of them being able to get at it. So boundaries are for the boundary setter and to have those conversations and really to do your best to come to a consensus, because when you have a prodigal, they will try the divide and conquer idea.

>> Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, you're so right. And I think, a last word that I would give to our listeners as we end our time together is that sometimes these boundaries need to be set with some professional help. Sometimes you need a support group. You need a Christian counselor. You need somebody who's going to walk you through those things. Because sometimes these problems are just too big to handle on our own. And having, having the courage to reach out and say, I need some help with this can be a really healing thing to do. The book is called Messy Journey How Grace and Truth Offer the Prodigal A Way Home. It's by Lori Wildenberg. And wherever you are, I pray that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace. And I'll see you right back here tomorrow.

>>  : The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.