Transcript

Hamilton: God has called us to be ambassadors even in this dark moment

Abraham Hamilton III: Darkness is not an affirmative force. It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.

Abraham Hamilton III: This is the, Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Abraham Hamilton III: It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite, delivering people.

Abraham Hamilton III: Out of the bondage of mainstream media and the philosophies of this world.

Abraham Hamilton III: God has called you and me to be his ambassadors, even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment.

Abraham Hamilton III: And, now the, Hamilton Corner.

Abraham Hamilton III: Good evening, everyone.

Abraham Hamilton III: Thank you for tuning into the Hamilton Corner

Welcome to the Hamilton Corner. Abraham Hamilton III here on this evening. Man, what a week. If you, like me, you feel like this week has been three weeks. It's been a lot going on all over the world and in our own country. I, got a lot going on in my family. That's a whole nother story for another day and another time. I'm hearing a little bit of echo. I don't know. No, I'm good. It's good now. We're good. We're good. We're good. Yep, I'm good. Well, thank you for tuning into the program, many of you, and all of the different ways that you're tuning in. Podcasters, radio listeners, live audio streamers, video streamers, NRB TVers. Thank you to all of you for tuning into the program. I am grateful, we are grateful for you doing that. I will. It never is lost on me that in this information age you can go to any number of outlets to get the content that you desire. Frankly, and so the simple fact that you choose to tune into this program, I greatly, greatly appreciate it. And because of that commitment on your end, I will always endeavor, to make your time in the corner worthwhile as best as possible. At this very moment, many of you, if not most of you, are making that transition from your part time jobs where you generate an income, to your full time jobs where you cultivate an outcome as you make that transition. Please understand that the divine creator of heaven and earth, having the wherewithal to unfold human history and his created order in any manner he deemed fit, he expressly chose to make the first institution of his divine creation, the family. He did that on purpose. He did that with specific intention. He did that and recorded it so that you and I, who would come thereafter, we would have access to and understand the, the primacy and the significance that he places on family later on in the program. And Lord willing, I'm gonna have a guest on the show and I'm really excited. I'm trying to get this guest for quite some time. We've been working on it for a while. IJ McMan. The man is busy, you know. well, we're gonna have a conversation about. Even with all of the divisiveness and things that are happening in society, culture, our culture is beginning to wake up to the reality that family is absolutely significant. You've heard me say numerous times, we will never be able to out public policy. We will never be able to out politic. We will never be able to out church deficiencies that are prevalent in the family. A part of the reason is that we cannot seek to sidestep God's ways, yet enjoy God's results. We have an entire bevy of our society. Many of them want the things that God produces, but we don't want to go his way. You have lots of people that want to enjoy intimacy, but they don't want to commit. You have people that want to have high incomes, but they don't want to be diligent. They don't want to look to the ant as proverbs instructs us. They don't want to, toil in winter, and I mean toil in summer to store your goods and prepare for the winter. They want it now. Instant gratification, instant returns. You cannot seek God's results by sidestepping God's ways. And most importantly, we should not have a heart condition where all that we want is, are the things that God produces. You know, I describe that I talk to my children about this all the time, as seeking God's hand as opposed to his face. You know, God is not a cosmic Santa Claus, some, intergalactic vending machine. You know, you put the coin in the right slot and hit the right button, then out comes results. He's God. He should be sought, he should be worshiped, he should be honored, and he must be obeyed. So as you are making your transition from your part time jobs to your full time jobs, may I remind you that what goes on in your house is far more important, far more important than what goes on in the White House. And so, because that is the case, make every endeavor, make every effort to begin discharging the lifestyle of worship before our Lord Savior and soon returning king. Right in our homes. Right in your home. This evening you have an opportunity to labor in our Lord's vineyard and execute the great Commission starting right at home. It doesn't mean that that is the exclusive outlet that your obedience is required within, but it is a primary context in which we must, we must worship our Lord to the word of God.

We'll go next back to the book of Joshua. I actually gonna be there quite some time

We'll go next back to the book of Joshua. I know we've been hanging in Joshua a lot lately. Because I've been hanging in Joshua a lot lately. I actually gonna be there quite some time. Joshua, chapter 7, verses 10 through 14. this is the portion of time between the amazing victory that the Israelites enjoyed at Jericho and then their defeat at AI. This is the immediate fallout after their defeat at AI when Joshua, prostrated himself before Yahweh because he was flabbergasted, he was flummoxed, he was astounded. Can't believe that, we lost a little bitty, bitty, bitty, bitty AI. And this is how the Lord responded to him. The Lord said to Joshua, get up. Why have you fallen on your face? Israel has sinned. They have transgressed my covenant that I commanded them. They have taken some of the devoted things. They have stolen and lied and put them among their own belongings. Therefore, the people of Israel cannot stand before their enemies. They turn their backs before their enemies because they have become devoted for destruction. I will be with you no more unless you destroy the devoted things from among you. Get up. Consecrate the people and say, consecrate yourselves for tomorrow. For thus says the Lord God of Israel, there are devoted things in your midst, O Israel. You cannot stand before your enemies until you take away the devoted things from among you in the morning. Therefore, you shall be brought near by your tribes. And the tribe that the Lord takes by lot shall come nearby clans, and the clan that the Lord takes shall come nearby households. And the household that the Lord takes shall come near man by man. Now, this is, the historical recordings as to how the Lord, addressed Achan's sin. but I want you to specifically note, not only does the Lord confront the sinfulness that's present, and he tells Joshua to get up to address it. but as it's diagnosed, the Lord explains that the people of Israel will be brought near tribe by tribe first. Then it says they'll be brought by clan, then by household, then by man. You'll notice this is a narrowing of the point of attention. You go from the larger group of the tribe, then from within the tribe, each clan within the tribe will be addressed. Then within the clans, each household within the clan will be addressed, and then within each household, each individual. You see this specified narrowing of focus. And one of the major things that I want to say to you today is that this example provides for us guidance as to how we should seek to evaluate ourselves and evaluate our own lives as the scripture says in the New Testament, that we are to work out our own soul salvation with fear and trembling. Unfortunately, I believe because of really bad theology in a lot of senses, we have people who conflate the prevalence of the sinfulness of mankind with being comfortable with the sinfulness of mankind. I'll never forget my pastor in New Orleans. Man, I'm so grateful that God blessed me with a godly pastor as I was growing up and gave me the opportunity not only to hear, sound biblical teaching, but to get an opportunity to get close enough to watch my pastor's life and to see, that his life matched his teaching. And now my pastor, is 80 years old, still going strong. If you saw him, you wouldn't think he was 80 years old, Pastor Wooten. And he taught, he taught our whole church and taught me specifically this really, I call it a Wooten proverb that I've adopted. Said what you tolerate, you will not change. What doesn't change only increases. What increases will one day bind you to it. That's the maxim. What you tolerate, you won't change. What doesn't change only increases. And what increases will eventually will ultimately will one day bind you to it. It is an absolute biblical truth that mankind is infected with the sin nature from birth. It is also an absolute biblical truth that mankind that is regenerated receives a new nature. 2nd Corinthians 5:17. What happens then within the life of the believer that we'll spend the remainder of our lives in the sanctification process, until our salvation culminates in the return of our Messiah, or until our transition from this side of eternity into the eternal state where we live within the full manifested presence of our kingdom, that in that interim time period we will continually learn to renew our minds, to live according to and consistent with our new nature. There should never come a point in a believer's life or in the life of, believers, plural, where we become comfortable living in rebellion that is foreign to a believer. So when we look at the great narrowing specificity that Yahweh employs when confronting Achan sin, from tribe to clan to household to man, it gives a guideline for us as to how we should seek to narrow our focus into specifically what our issue may be. We talked earlier, wasn't this week, but last week, maybe the week before, about the deficiency and delight if, you recognize, and this is just, you know, just a categorical, you know, 30,000 foot evaluation. If you recognize man, I have all kinds of energy for all kinds of stuff. You know, I can watch a football game, I can watch the Saints, all three hours, maybe four if it goes into overtime of the Saints game on Sundays. I can watch college football all day long. It don't even have to be my team.

George Barna: And I.

Abraham Hamilton III: And I'll watch college football. You know, I can watch the, hgtv, I can go shopping, I can do all of these things. And I have never once thought, you know what, this is taking way too long. When I come to the things like this, I get sleepy. You know, I talk to my brothers who like to hunt. Man, you schedule hunting, you plan in advance. You get up early, before the sunrise, you're there, you know, you want to nab a five point buck, you're going to invest the time that's necessary. The simple point is the things that we truly enjoy and that we desire, we never put a time limit on them. You can never get too much of it, and we never get tired when we're engaged in it. So if you recognize that and then contrast that with the things of God, that when it comes to the things of the Lord, when it's time to read the Word, I get sleepy. When it comes to prayer time, I get distracted. When it comes to listening to a sermon, oh, man, this sermon, this past is taking too long. And look, I'm not trying to make an excuse because I might be loquacious. I may be, I may not be. What I'm saying is, if you recognize that there's a deficiency of delight, that the things that you enjoy, you're never looking for a timeline, you're never getting sleepy. But when it comes to the things of the God, the things of the Lord, which you should enjoy, would you recognize that you don't. Don't be content to leave it there, man. Bring that to the Lord. If you recognize other areas in your life, man, it's strong, man. I've been, man, Jeff, I've been struggling with this since I've been saved. That doesn't mean that you're supposed to give up. That doesn't mean you supposed to say, well, I guess this is just the thing that I'm just going to deal with the rest of my life. It don't have to be. It doesn't have to be. We should have the type of specificity and urgency that the things that offend our God are the things that offend us. You've heard me say on this program numerous times, the sin that should be most grievous to the believer is is our own sin. It is only when we are grieved by our own sin, when we have the proper God centered, biblically based, eternally laden compassion to serve our brothers the right way. This type of introspection is one of the graces that God gives us that enables us to contend for the faith that has been once and for all passed down to us as saints in the context and culture that he's planted us in. Without despising the harvest field, when we survey the things that are going on around us, it is high time for the saints of God to be saints of God.

Abraham Hamilton III: Shining light into the darkness. This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Abraham Hamilton welcomes Dr. George Barna to the Hamilton Corner

Abraham Hamilton III: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton iii. And I am elated to have on the program with me a guest who is a brethren of faith, who has been a stalwart, source of information for me over the years, especially during this program. My guest is none other than Dr. George Barna, author of over 50 books, founder of the Barna Research Group, which he's no longer operating, but he did found that organization and he's currently serving as a professor at Arizona Christian University and the director of research at the Cultural Research center at Arizona Christian University. Dr. Barner, thank you for joining me here on the Hamilton Corner.

George Barna: Well, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Abraham Hamilton III: Oh, man, I am, like I said, I'm elated to have you on the program. I wanted to dive right in because you, you, churn out a bevy of content. And as I said in the intro, I, along with many others, utilize, the research that you provide to aid us in navigating this kind of cultural milieu that we have going on in society right now. And one of the things that grabbed my attention that I told Jeff, man, we've got to get Dr. Barn on the program was the study, that was commissioned that you ultimately end up publishing, as a result of your American Worldview Inventory 2022 that revealed the top line of it is shocking results concerning the worldview of Christian pastors.

Only 6% of American adults have a biblical worldview, study finds

I want to ask you first and foremost, what led you to start your research on this particular issue to try to get an idea as to the worldview makeup of pastors in our nation?

George Barna: Well, it's a long story. I'll try to make it as short as possible. A, few years ago, I realized I'm an old man now. I don't have that much time left, so I want to finish. Well, what would that look like went back through my most recent 200 national surveys, took notes on what I learned from each of these. And when I looked at the whole list of insights, the thing that popped out was that, you know, everything points back to worldview. It's all about worldview. So we've got to focus on that. So I thought, okay, I'm going to, spend my last years really emphasizing that, because I think that's the most important thing for the church at large to be focusing on. And so we created the American Worldview Inventory that we run out of the Cultural Research center at acu, and we've been doing that every year. But what we found is that only 6% of American adults have a biblical worldview. And to me, that raised the question of, well, wait a minute, if we've got 68% of Americans claiming to be Christian, we've got more than a third of them attending church on a regular basis. We've got more than nine out of 10 households owning a Bible. What's going on here? So we thought, well, let's go back and see what pastors make of all this. And what we found is that more than four out of five of them believe they're doing a great job, helping people develop a biblical worldview. And sat back and thought about that for a while. Something's wrong here. There's a mismatch. Then we thought, well, let's check their worldview, because you can't get what you don't have. And so we went back and did the national survey among the representative sampling of, pastors, all Christian churches in the country, and found that on average, only 30, 37% of all Christian pastors have a biblical worldview. So when you've got two out of three pastors who don't have a biblical worldview, that helps to explain why it is that most Americans don't have one. And, in some ways, Even worse, only 2% of the parents of children under the age of 13 have a biblical worldview. And that's important because we know that a person's worldview is formed between 15 to 18 months of age and 13 years of age. We know that biblically, it's a parent's responsibility to ensure that a child grows up knowing, loving, and serving God with all their heart, mind, strength and soul. That's their biggest task in life. Well, when only 2% have a biblical worldview, again, you can't get what you don't have. 98 out of every 100 of them don't have it. They can't turn to their pastors, typically because their pastors don't have it. So that really kind of describes the challenge that we have in America of coming up with a whole different approach to how are we going to make sure that in the future. This is a nation where people are acting like Jesus because they can think like Jesus.

Abraham Hamilton III: That is, some of the most, depressing commentary that I heard in quite some time. I learned a long time ago what is prevalent in the pulpit often is amplified in the pew. So the phenomenon you just described observing Less than 6% of American adults having a biblical worldview, then saying, well, wait, what about the pastors in our nation? It seems to confirm that maxim to such a degree. Now I want to take a few steps back just in case somebody's listening and they may not know what we mean when we use the terminology. I know what you mean, and I'm confident many of our listeners know what you mean. But just in case there may be some who don't know. When you say a worldview, what is a worldview?

George Barna: Well, everybody has a worldview. This isn't just for the people in the ivory towers. Every individual has a worldview because essentially it is the intellectual, the moral and spiritual and emotional filter that every one of us uses to make every decision that we make. And so as we have experiences, as we gather information, as we ponder different things, it all goes through our worldview. And our ultimate decisions are a result of how we put that information together with what we consider to be important and right and significant and appropriate. And so that worldview really is the decision making center for every human being, every moment of every day of their life. And that's why worldview is so critical. It's shocking to me that we spend so little time intentionally stating about worldview. And it's unfortunate that we spend so little time in our families, in our churches, in our schools, in our personal relationships, strategically and intentionally considering what choices our worldview is causing us to form and what we're going to do to help the next generation, which is currently developing its worldview, develop one that really is going to make a difference by honoring God.

Abraham Hamilton III: And when I look through the breakdown, as you mentioned, 37% of all Christian pastors, in your research, you went further and even broke it down based on kind of some of the organizational roles that are afforded in churches. Senior pastors versus assistant pastors, children's pastors, etc. one of the things that just, you know, it just struck Me between the eyes, man, and in my heart was the paltry biblical worldview among purported children's pastors and youth pastors. And so the combination of that phenomenon with what you just described, parents, 2% of parents having a, only 2% of parents having a biblical worldview, to me that reveals, because I get the question often on my program, Abraham, how did. What has happened to our nation? What has happened? How did we get to where we've gotten? And I say very candidly, we've discipled our way into where we are as a nation. Not affirmatively in many instances, but even by negligence, by refusing to obey the scripture in Deuteronomy 6, Psalm 127, Malachi 2, Ephesians 6, and so on, that we've discipled our way into it. And the only way out is by discipling our way out from that. When you see such a low number of us, low percentage of children's and youth pastors with a biblical worldview, combining that with the poetry number of parents with a biblical worldview, what do those things combine to communicate to you and the observations that you've made from your own research?

George Barna: Well, it won't be a popular statement, but you asked me, so I'll tell you, and that's that it's actually a bit of a dangerous place to take your children to a church at this point in American history, because the chances of them understanding what the Bible is, knowing who God is, embracing Jesus Christ for who he is and what he's done for us, I mean, all of those things are not likely to happen at the typical Christian church. Now, obviously there are a lot of exceptions across the country where there are great children's pastors, great senior pastors, great ministries. But I'm a sociologist, so I look at averages, and on, average, what we know is that you're better off not going to a Christian church if you really want to get the real truth about God, about Christ, about your own sin, about eternity, about the Scriptures, all of these things and more, you'd be better off simply reading the Bible and finding someone who is a dynamic person, somebody who does love God, somebody who has committed his life to following Jesus, someone who reads the Scriptures every day, someone who prays to God for guidance and for wisdom every day, and interacting with that person. And oddly enough, what our research is also showing is that's how most people are being most effectively discipled in America today. And so, those are some of the things that go through my mind. You know, I think of children's pastors as being the single most significant pastor in any church. And yet when I find that only 12% of them have a biblical worldview, that's to me more frightening than okay to having a ball. I mean, it's the most serious deficiency we have in American society today.

Abraham Hamilton III: And so when you highlight characteristics like people who have Bibles and read them every day and who pray to God every day, these seem to be characteristics that in some instances, and I'm so glad, that you did not endeavor to paint with a broad brush, which I didn't expect you would eat anyway. As a sociologist, of course there are exceptions, but you're dealing in averages. These are things that oftentimes, on average, that many people who identify themselves as pastors don't do.

George Barna: Well. And we have the evidence of that in the surveys. And so I think this is one of those periods of time in American history where, as we look at our culture, a lot of people are very upset with the direction America is moving right now. And they're feeling enough pain that they're finally willing to maybe make some changes to take more control of the situation rather than handing it over to people in government and schools and other places. They realize it's a government by the people, for the people. And therefore we have a responsibility, a duty, and we have to do our homework and we have to invest time and energy in that process. We're in the same situation spiritually in America where for so long we've sat back and said, let the pastor it. Well, maybe we're in that period of time right now. We're looking at the health and the state of well being of churches in America. Hopefully that's painful enough for most of us who are true followers of Christ, say, you know what? If that's what we've been doing, shame on us. We are the church. And so we need to take up that responsibility and make sure that what we're being taught is biblical, that how we're behaving in the culture is really advancing God's kingdom, that our mindset is right, that our hearts that is right, and that this is, first Chronicles talks about this is a great time for us to get on our knees and repent and ask that God would forgive us and show mercy to us and help us to put things back together properly.

Abraham Hamilton III: Amen. Well said.

Dr. George Barna: Only way forward is to disciple our way out

you really already alluded to this, but I want to ask this question simply to allow you another opportunity to assert your answer. so when people peruse your research and they're even hearing you now. and I made the statement earlier, the only way forward for us is to disciple our way out of it, to evangelize and to disciple our way out of where we are as a nation. what would you prescribe to people who are listening to us who would say those things? I mean, you mentioned earlier, find someone who is a Bible believing Christian in your immediate sphere of influence, who reads the Bible daily, who prays daily and walk alongside them. And unsurprisingly, that actually is the biblical example for discipleship anyway, is it not?

George Barna: It is. I mean, that's the very kind of thing that Jesus modeled for us. And so a few years back, I'd written a book called Revolution and talked about how for me, I had to go through kind of a personal renaissance where instead of relying upon churches and other people to do for me what God's expecting to do in my own life, I had to recognize, no, I'm called to be the church. So wherever I am, no matter what time of day it is, no matter what the situation is, God put me there intentionally to be salt and light to anyone whose life I can influence at that moment in time. And so, you know, you ask, what do I hope people will think as they read the research? I hope they'll look in the mirror and they'll say, am I part of the problem? What do I need to fix in my own life spiritually so that God can use me in ever greater ways to bring about the spiritual renaissance, that awakening that America needs to have and that we'll be recognizing that our calling is not to make money, it's not to be famous, it's not to have the big house and the Porsche. It's to be a, disciple of Jesus Christ who at all times is thinking about, what can I do right now, right now to advance God's kingdom? Who could I bless right now so that God is on? God is pleased, God is respected, God is seen in all things. These are the kinds of thoughts that we need to be having instead of what time is Keeping up with the Kardashians on Tonight or whatever the name of that program is. So, you know, it's kind of a mind shift, I think, that the church in America needs to be going through. And my job is to be a messenger, just bring in stuff of the information so that we have a more realistic understanding of our conditions, both culturally and personally, so that we can invite God into our minds and hearts to make whatever changes he needs to make in us. So that we can really be the church. We can be a group of people, a community, a tribe that demonstrates our love for each other and for other people. People. Because those are the greatest commandments he gave us. That's what Jesus tells us in Mark 12, 2931. So if we understand that that's what we're supposed to be doing all day, then maybe we can rearrange our schedules and our resources to really be disciples. 24 7.

Abraham Hamilton III: Rearrange M our schedules and our resources to be disciples. 24 7. Oh, profound wisdom from Dr. George Barna. You do not want to move from where you are. I'm so glad that we were able to work out having you on the program, because this in my estimation is the type of conversation that needs to be noised abroad in our nation especially, and in particular amongst believers. You do not want to miss the rest of this interview. Dr. George Barner, professor at Arizona Christian University and director of research at the Cultural Research center at Arizona Christian University.

Abraham Hamilton III: The Hamilton quarter podcast and one minute commentaries are available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Abraham Hamilton III interviewed sociologist Dr. George Barnard about American values

Abraham Hamilton III: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner, Abraham Hamilton III here joined by Director of Cultural Research, sorry, Director of Research at the Culture Research center at American Arizona Christian University, Dr. George Barnard. We've just been having, in my opinion, one of the most important conversations we can have in our country right now and utilizing his skill and his expertise as a sociologist to provide factual foundation for us to have these important conversations. Another one of Dr. Barna's studies that just gripped me as I was preparing for this interview is one that is described as an America's values study. The byline or the headline from this study says America's values identify possible means to national unity. So I want to invite you back in, Dr. Barnard, to just describe for the Hamilton Corner audience what you found in the America's Value study that led to this publication.

George Barna: Well, it's interesting Abraham, as we did all this, we were charged with trying to figure out what are the core values of Americans because we've been looking at worldview, we have a pretty good grip on that now. And one of the primary things that emanates from a person's worldview are their core values, the things that tell them what has worth in our life. And one of the most fascinating outcomes of this study, which we did with an organization called America's One they actually commissioned what we found is that there are a number of values that Americans have in common that Number one, demonstrate that we're not as divided as we're being led to believe. I believe that's something that's being used for political means by various individuals and groups, and that it's not to our best interest that that continues to prevail. Secondly, we also found that there are a number of values that appear to have been in place in America for more than two centuries. David Barton and I, a few years ago, did a book together where we looked at, the course of history and where we're at now and how we got there. And one of the things I did was spend a lot of time trying to identify what were the core values of colonial America. And as we. And then I compare them to the core values of today, we've got about a half dozen values that have been in place for almost 250 years. And I would say, well, that pretty much has to represent the DNA of America. And so let's not lose sight of those things and recognize that we've got this in common. So if we want to rebuild our nation, maybe that's a place where we start looking at these things, things that have always been part and parcel part of the heartbeat of our nation and its people, and recognize this is who we are, this is something that we're not going to give up on. This is the foundation that we can be building upon, and then we can move forward from there. But we are not hopelessly divided. We are a group of people that has more in common than we've been led to believe.

Abraham Hamilton III: Man, I see you have those beautiful guitars behind you. You're strumming my note. You're strumming my note. because this is something I've been said, I unaffectionately describe our national and legacy media as Goebbels, Inc. In dishonor of Hitler's, Joseph Goebbels, his minister of propaganda. because our nation is not as polarized as Goebbels, Inc. Purports it to be. And the note that I'm talking about that you're strumming. That's my note, is that if we're not as polarized as the media purports us to be, then why is this presentation the most consistent and ubiquitous presentation? We even have a complete transformation of our information centers based on this polarization. and it's largely because there are people, especially politicians, that profit, that benefit from this perception of this extreme polarization as opposed to understanding. Wait a minute. There are still lots of things that, as you pointed out, that are not only core values in our nation, but that trace back all the way to America's colonial and founding period. So I want to ask you, in light of that, what are some of those values? I guess this is a twofold question. I know you love those compound questions. Two fold question. What are some of those values that date back to America's founding period, the colonial era? Era, and then moving forward, what are the primary core values you've been able to identify, based on this American, America's value study contemporarily?

George Barna: Well, the one. Yeah, the ones that we've had in carbon, for hundreds of years include, first and foremost, family. We believe that that needs to be the building block of our society. We believe that that's a centerpiece of our own lives, that we invest ourselves in that, that it's important and that we're not going to give up on that. We look at values like being financially cautious, being careful with money, about how we think about it, how we use it, how we spend it, as opposed to what the federal government is doing right now, which is just throwing that kind of financial caution to the wind and saying, yeah, we're overspending by a trillion dollars a year, we'll just make up more money. Well, that's not an American ideal. That's not how we think about money in our own lives. other kinds of values that are critical to us, hard work. Americans do believe that you should work for what you get. Now. We believe that you should be rewarded for your hard work. But we're not afraid to put that kind of work in. We find humility is one of the values that's lasted for a quarter of a millennium. And of course that certainly is a core biblical value that we're called to, is to be humble before our God, to recognize it's not about us, it's about Him. And we're willing to have that kind of humility. And interestingly, moderation is a big value for Americans. And I say it's interesting because you look at the people who tend to be in political power today, they're not operating in terms of moderation. They want radical, rapid change. And what we found in this study related to people's values, because we also looked at how this relates to their political desires, is that people are saying, we don't want radical change in our society. We want to stick with what's made America great. We want to go back to the basics. And apropos, Abraham, to what you were talking about before, about the selfishness of people. What we discovered is that a huge majority of Americans, three out of four Americans said that they believe our political system is not broken. The problem is that it's being abused by many people who are empowered today. They're looking out for their self interest rather than the public interest. And we need to get people who are really going to recognize the common good rather than the politicians personal good.

Abraham Hamilton III: M well said, Very well said.

8 out of 10 Americans say they would die for family, study finds

as I, perused your study, I was ah, in a positive way, surprised to see how prevalent, ah, across demographic boundaries or different demographics, how prevalent the contemporary, value of family registered in our nation and in our time, it stood out as, one of the main sources of responses that you got as you, did this study. What do you think that says about our culture, considering how prevalent family, figured in your research?

George Barna: I think it's getting a short shrift in the public conversation. What's being talked about in the public square. We found that 8 out of 10Americans said that they'd be willing to die for or fight to defend the family. They'd be willing to sacrifice precious resources for family. there was nothing close, frankly to that second on the list in terms of values that were important was happiness. But I mean, that was a little bit farther down the list. So family is a big, big deal to Americans. And rather than pushing that issue aside and say, well, let's think about other things, that really needs to be what we go back to and we have some hard, difficult, honest conversations with each other about what does family mean? What does it look like? What do we need to do to defend it? Why are we willing to die for it? Why is it so important to us? And get back to the fact that, you know what? It's because God planted that inside of us. This is the cornerstone of society that he gave to us wasn't our idea, it was his idea. And so the more that we're willing to work with him to defend and take care of family, the better off we're going to be.

Less than 2% of American adults have a biblical worldview, study finds

Abraham Hamilton III: M and now, weaving together what we talked about in the previous segment and what we're discussing now, it would be robustly clear that when you see less than 2% of adults have a biblical worldview, less, less than only 37% of Christian pastors have a biblical worldview. When you, extrapolate that or apply it into the context where family figures prominently, it would be relatively obvious that there are many in the American populace, in our constitutional republic who wouldn't necessarily adhere to a biblical morality concerning family, do you think? Well, one, do you agree with that assessment? And then two, do you think that lack of biblical morality is an impediment to. To have the type of dialogues in our society about family that are necessary?

George Barna: Yeah, definitely, Abraham. I mean, when we look at the data, what we find is that fewer and fewer people believe that the Bible is a trustworthy guide for life, that it's reliable as a guide and relevant as a guide for life today. And I think what that shows is the erosion of people's trust in God's word, largely through the most influential source in American society today, which is the media. And so if we can help people not simply feel good about their willingness to give up on God's word, but maybe take a few steps back and start thinking philosophically about what life is, where it comes from, why it's important, all of these kinds of seminal questions about why you should even bother to get out of bed in the morning, these are the kinds of things that Americans no longer think about. What I found over the course of doing this type of research for more than 40 years now is that Americans are not reflective people. We're people of action. We like to go make stuff happen. We like to do things. We like to have a, list of our accomplishments that show us how significant we are, how capable we are, how strong. And yet the reality is, at some point, we have to go back and answer those fundamental questions about how did I get here, why am I here? Those types of things, so that each decision that we make every day, whether we want to be active or reflective, either way, we've got to go back to the foundations, the basics, and figure out how it all fits together.

Three out of four millennials say they don't have a sense of purpose

Abraham Hamilton III: I m have two questions. I'm not going to ask these in a compound fashion, in light of even observing the active nature of the American people as opposed to being reflective, but the necessity of doing and participating in both. What are the kinds of conversations you think we need to have concerning family, considering how prevalently it figures in the hearts and minds of most Americans?

George Barna: Well, Abraham, I think one of the first questions that we need to be talking about is, what do we perceive to be our purpose in life? It's interesting. We did a huge, national study with millennials a little while ago, and what we discovered is that three out of four of them say they don't have a sense of purpose for their life. But when you don't have purpose guiding you down a particular path, any kind of activity is Admissible, Any kind of choice that you make seems just as good as any other. And so, first of all, figuring out what is the purpose of life and what is the purpose of my life is a good starting point. And then following that up with the question of how would we define success in life? Because what we find is that the vast majority of Americans do not believe in the biblical perspective on that which is success is nothing more but nothing less than to consistent obedience to God. M. Now, a lot of people would argue with that faith, consistent obedience to God. I'm not even sure I believe in God. Great. M. Let's make that our third question. Does God exist? How do we know that? What do we know about him? what difference does the existence of God make in your life and in the world at large? These are the kinds of trails that we want to go down answering questions that really matter, so that when we decide, how am I going to spend my time today? How am I going to use my resources today? We have a purpose, we have a success objective, and it's all founded, it's all based upon a realistic perspective of what life is about.

Abraham Hamilton III: M. Your answers are so profound on a number of fronts. because in our modern day, and I'm pretty confident that this is directly attributable to the diminishment of a biblical worldview in our society. but a lot of the things that we purport today as being a pursuit of liberty isn't a pursuit of liberty. It's a pursuit of human autonomy. Liberty as understood by our founders, included a function that was consistent with our designed, ah, distinction as God created us. Now we're seeking to employ kind of a humanistic autonomy. And the other question I was going to get to, but I hear the disrespectful music. We won't have time to get to it. Maybe I have to have you back on so we can get to this. you make the observation in your research about core values and how they are aided by peripheral values, but because we're running out of time, we won't get into that. So. And I won't ask you on the air, will you come back? But we'll ask you off air if we can set up a time, to have you back when I've set the set up time. Time now. But we'll. I'll get Jeff with your schedulers and see if we can have you back. Is that okay with you?

George Barna: I would be honored to come back. I enjoy talking with you about things like this. Because they matter. I don't want to talk about peripheral issues.

Abraham Hamilton III: Amen.

George Barna: I want to talk about the stuff that matters. Because America is losing its focus on the things that matter.

Abraham Hamilton III: Well said, Dr. George Barner. Ladies and gentlemen, the views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.