Transcript

Hamilton: God called believers to be ambassadors even in this dark moment

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Darkness is not an affirmative force. It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: This is the, Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite, delivering people.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Out of the bondage of mainstream media and the philosophies of this world.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: God has called you and me to be his ambassadors even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment.

Jenna Ellis fills in for Abraham Hamilton this evening on American Family Radio

>> Abraham Hamilton III: And now, the Hamilton Corner.

>> Jenna Ellis: Good evening. And this is not the voice of Abraham Hamilton iii. it's a little bit too high, I think, for his, ah, deep, bravado there that I always love tuning into. But, my name is Jenna Ellis and I'm the host of Jenna Ellis in the Morning right here on American Family Radio Network. And it is my distinct honor and privilege to fill in for my dear friend Abe this evening. And it's, it's going to be a great hour and I'm so grateful for all of you who have tuned into this program and who will be listening later, via the podcast because there are always important things to discuss. And one of the first things that Abe always starts with and regular listeners know, is that he talks about how so many people are transitioning from their part time jobs to their full time jobs, which is, to minister to your family.

The family is the first institution that God ordained in the Bible

And that's kind of where I want to start tonight because, a lot of what we're going to be talking about on, the program this evening deals with that key institution that God has ordained, which is the family government. And we need to understand that in the wider perspective of God's sovereignty and how he ordained the universe to which we are presented, and how he describes these institutions that he has ordained in the Bible. And so the key idea here is that God is a God of order. And we see this in First Corinthians, 1433, and elsewhere in Scripture, of course, initially in Genesis 1:27 and 28, when, he creates a man and he says, and for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be united to his wife. The two shall become one flesh. that is the first marriage and it's the first family unit. And we also see this in Colossians 1:16 through 17. I'm not going to read all of these passages, but, for your Exodus edification and to go back and study, God is a God of order, and he's also a God of an authority structure. And as we look at these three institutions, the family, government, of course, Being the first, then the church government and then the civil government. We see that God, who has all authority, has delegated to these institutions and to the humans and that run these institutions a ah, specific delegated authority. And so any authority that is established or controls in any of these three institutions must necessarily be under God's authority in order to live out that institution's purpose for which it was created. And that is true about the family as much as it's true about the church and also the civil government. And to understand these institutions is to understand that God is a God of order and He's a God of authority. He's ordained these three institutions to structure human society for his glory and to give the best opportunity, to us to come to know him, as individuals, to love him and to ultimately accept him as our Lord and Savior. That's the. The key purpose of man as the catechism goes, to worship the Lord. And we do that primarily in the context of family. That's where we live the most of our daily lives. It's not actually at our job. Our vocation, is part of that certainly. And that's an incredible part of Particularly the husband providing for the family. it's a key part of ministry, that can be both, the husband and wife. It can, ah, especially for individuals who are single like me. for example, my life is dedicated to ministry, for the duration of the time that I'm single. but I'm still within the context of a family because I still have my. My two brothers. I still have my parents who speak into my life. And of course the family that is the church as well. We should never be without family. The family is the first institution that God ordained. It was established in creation in Genesis 2, 1824. And marriage was institute, even before the fall. In creation. Marriage is not something that God designed after the fact, like civil society, to ah, promote good and restrain evil. As we'll get to. Marriage isn't a result of the fall. It's something that actually reflects the beauty of our relationship with our Lord and Savior. And the purpose of course, as we see in Genesis 2, is companionship, fruitfulness and stewardship of creation and also of children.

How do Christians fight for the gospel without first understanding the family

and we need to remember that, going into a couple of the items and the news items that we're going to talk about later. Particularly the Supreme Court case, that's being appealed to the Supreme Court right now that was announced today that seeks to Overturn the Obergefell versus Hodges decision. the same sex marriage decision. How do we as Christians understand that and fight for the truth of the gospel and God's order and authority in society without first understanding the family that was designed and created to promote human flourishing and stewardship of not only creation but also of children? How do we do that without first understanding all of that and understanding Genesis? There are pastors that I've heard teach this and I fully agree with it, that if we don't first understand Genesis as the book of the Bible and take it literally and understand what God is telling us in the very beginning, in the beginning God. If we don't first take that literally, then we fail to understand the rest. we can't understand the necessity of the cross and of the necessity of the church and the church's authority. we can't understand who we are as created in the image of God M Without first understanding the book of Genesis. And so the primary roles are of course the husband and the wife, first and foremost, that primary relationship, together and how God ordained that relationship for companionship, for iron, sharpening iron. And then for those two individuals that are now one flesh and one family unit to then be parents, to train children in the fear and admonition of the lord. That's Deuteronomy 6 and Ephesians 6 as well. To provide physical care, yes, but also moral and spiritual formation and instruction. parents are not a substitute for the state. They are the primary caregivers. Children do not belong to the state. They are entrusted to the parents as the primary method of discipleship. this is, and I've said this on my program so many times that my parents took that very seriously. And the greatest gift, that they provided to me growing up as I was learning about truth and about the world, about God, about everything as children do, they taught me the truth. And they provided discipleship through homeschooling, through the church education, but in being a family unit. And that's what we need to strive for, to replicate the family, in the design that God provides. And that family is ultimately the foundation of society. It's not the Republican Party. It's not the U.S. constitution. It's not the. The social mores or the social compact theory is the foundation of a good society. If anyone asks you that question, what's the foundation of society? It's the family. Healthy families produce stable communities. And breakdown of the family invites social decay and societal Decay. And we can see that clearly also in Psalm 127, Proverbs 22, and elsewhere as well. and we see that just in the evidence that we have of the man and the woman, the mother and the father who are necessary for children, that the family unit is the best form of society and the form of an environment for children to thrive and to come into a knowledge of the truth. And so we have to start with the family. And I've spent a lot of time on the family and this is why I think Abe Hamilton, when he is hosting this program spends so much time in this first segment teaching about the truth of the word of God and pastoring and talking about how you're transitioning from your part time roles in your job and your volunteer in your ministry to your primary ministry and role which is the family. And then we do have the other two institutions that God ordained which are co. Equal in a sense of being under God's ultimate authority. And they're different jurisdictions of course, and that's a separation of those institutions or of powers. It's kind of a reflection of what our founders understood when they ah, created our system of government and had you know, three separate branches of government. We have three different institutions that the Lord's ordained. So the church is where God's people gather. It's established by Christ, in the New Testament for after Christ's earthly ministry in Matthew 16:18 he says I will build. Christ is saying I will build my church. The church is a body in 1st Corinthians 12 and it's also a bride in Ephesians 5. And so again that bride is a reflection, or marriage is a reflection of Christ and the church that he gave himself up for his bride. The primary role of the church is to preach the gospel and to make disciples. we see that in the Great Commission in Matthew 28 to teach sound doctrine in 2nd Timothy 4. because we can have a passion for God but we have to have a knowledge of God as well. We have to know who he is. think about your relationships in your family. How well can you predict what your parents will do or what your spouse would respond to in a given situation when you send them the Instagram reels that you know that they'll think are funny, it's because you know them very well. You have a knowledge of the people that you have relationship with. Sound doctrine helps us to have a better relationship with our Lord and Savior because we know him more intimately through a knowledge of him. And it's also to administer ordinances. First Corinthians 11, Acts 2. it's also spiritual authority to equip the saints for ministry. In Ephesians 4 and 5, take advantage of every opportunity for the days are evil as Ephesians 5 says. And also discipline for purity sake. in Matthew 18 where we, we see the biblical resolution for conflict that inevitably happens as a result of the fall certainly. And then we also come to civil government. but in the church obviously, everyone should be members of a family. We are members of a family and of a traditional family unit. We should also be members of a church that those primary roles are fulfilled. If you're going to a church that doesn't teach sound doctrine or doesn't provide discipline, you're in the wrong church. and so then the third institution that God ordained is the civil government and that's God's minister ultimately for justice. Again ordained by God In Romans 13, government is God's servant to punish evil and commend good. in first Peter 2 we are to submit to our authorities for the Lord's sake, obviously not over and above what his commands are. If there is an evil government then we submit to Christ first. But we submit to our leaders. We pray for our leaders because we recognize that they are ordained by God's authority over us. And again God is a God of order and authority. There's limits of that authority because they must operate under God's moral law. Acts 5:29 Obey God rather than men when in conflict. And so for the Christian in relation to these institutions in the family, model Christ centered love and holiness in the church, serve and edify one another, remain faithful to biblical truth and practice all of the one anothers that are throughout scripture and in civil society, live peaceably and do good. Titus 3, Jeremiah 20:29 Engage, assault and light. Matthew 5, pray for our leaders. First Timothy 2 and all three institutions will serve to bring stability, justice and spread of the gospel. Christians are called to be faithful in each sphere, pointing to the reign of Christ the King above all kings. So when we talk about the family, the church and the civil government, what's going on as we'll be talking about in the next few segments, recognize the purpose of civil society is for justice ultimately for the family. I'm Jenna Ellis filling in for Abe Hamilton and we will be right back with more here on the Hamilton corner and you can listen to my show regularly. Jenna Ellis in the morning from 8 to 9 Eastern, right here on American Family Radio Network, a discipleship minute with Joseph parker.

Jenna Ellis: Assembly Bill 495 would allow child kidnappings in California

>> Joseph Parker: Proverbs, chapter 15, verse 1. A soft word turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up, anger. Proverbs, chapter 16, verse 24. Gracious words are like a honeycomb sweetness to the soul and health to the body. Words are powerful. our words can do things far beyond what we seem to realize. Words can make someone's day, and words can ruin someone's day. Words can give people hope, and words can help people feel hopeless. As the scripture says in Proverbs chapter 18, verse 21. Death and life are in the power of the tongue. Those who love it will eat its fruits. We are wise to pray the prayer found in Psalm 141. 3. Set a guard, O Lord, over my mouth. Keep watch over the door of my lips.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Shining light into the darkness. This is the Hamilton corner on American Family Radio.

>> Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. Welcome back. This is Jenna Ellis filling in for the great Abraham Hamilton, iii. And we've been talking about the three institutions that God ordained. The church government, the civil government, and the family government. And of course, the civil government's obligation is to protect our pre political rights that come from our God of order and authority. And when our civil government runs afoul of that command and that mandate, they are going against the authority of God himself. And right now, California, there is a bill that does that very thing. And so this is coming from the Christian Post. Pastor Jack Hibbs warns Christians may need to, quote, pack up and get out of California. If this bill passes, I'm going to ask you to leave the state. So this is Assembly Bill 495, and Pastor Jack Hibbs of Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills, joins me now to discuss. Pastor Jack, I'm so grateful that you are shining the light of truth on this assembly bill. tell us why, this is so dangerous.

>> Frank Gaffney: Yeah. Gentlemen, first of all, thank you for having me. And if somebody could imagine this, that if whatever has always come down in California, bad legislation, bad ideas, bad bills. This is, the crowning moment of the Democrat rule in California. This is a bill that. Jenna, it's going to be hard for your listeners to believe this, but it is a bill that grants access to a individual who prints from the government website an affidavit that is in alignment with this bill. You can print it out, you can sign your name and the name of a child in the public school system that you want to, receive custody of. You just fill it out. You go down to the school, you request this child's, person. The school, number one, is not obligated to contact the parent. Number two, the school does not ask for id. This individual does not have to produce a background check, a driver's license, an address, nothing. This individual then can take custody of the child. And once that happens, the school is under no commitment whatsoever to reveal to the parents who this individual was, even their name. and so this is why I made the statement to the congregants that if this passes, that as much as I would love people to be at our church, that they would have to, take their child out of the state of California if they were, if they were going to not put them in either private school or homeschooling. Now, Jenna, I gotta tell you, I have been updated with this information, and I don't think I can say the attorney's name. But you know him. He's a friend of yours. He said, jack, it's worse. It's worse than what you think. It is worse than what you think. So you can tell Jenna, by the rhetoric online, by those that are pushing back on my comments and now the comments of many others, they're saying, oh, it's, they're being, you know, they're exaggerating this. It's not as bad as they think. But the legal minds that have looked at it and continue to look at it are saying, no, it's actually worse than that because it's so vague and dangerous that we can no longer have our children be safe in the California public school system.

>> Jenna Ellis: This is utterly insane. I mean, this is basically what you're describing, Pastor Jack, is legalized kidnapping. I mean, I mean, it's, it's just going in and saying, I'm handing over this affidavit. I'm taking a child as a non relative even, and the school just has to turn over a child to anyone and then not inform the parents. I mean, what is even the potential pretext to why California would say, you know, hey, we're going to sell this as a good thing? I mean, obviously they lie when they say, like, you know, these kinds of things are good, but what's their pretext here?

>> Frank Gaffney: Yep, great question. I'm glad you asked it. And here it is. This is basically an anti Trump immigration action that has been spearheaded by the California legislature and adored by Gavin Newsom.

>> Ryan Walters: And here it is.

>> Frank Gaffney: It is an act by which any person can take custody of the child rather than the state of rather than the federal government, because they say it is a compassionate bill. It is a bill that protects the child from, being taken by federal government authorities. if the parents are illegal aliens. That's what they're saying. You see, it's a good bill, Jenna, because it's our way of making it so easy that anybody can get Susie out of class and take custody of Susie, rescuing her from the bad and evil immigration officers of Donald Trump's ICE and dhs because their parents could be illegal aliens. Here's the thing. The devil in this case, gender, the devil is not in the details. It is so vague that anybody with that affidavit can utilize this and for nefarious reasons. And so, I mean, this is a pedal. I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, Jenna, but this is a pedophile's dream come true. If some guy has been eyeing your daughter or your son from down the street of your house and they happen to know your business hours or your work hours, that guy can go to your kid's school and without being questioned, take your kid out in the school. You're going to have to find your child because the school is under no obligation to notify because they believe that they're working in part with this legislation, as a compassionate act to protect this child and, or illegal parents from the mean Orange Man.

>> Jenna Ellis: Wow, that is, so utterly disgusting, but also so typical. I think, Pastor Jack, that, that the pretext is always orange man bad. You know, it's always just, oh, we're say anti Trump and we're sold, you know, according to the state of California and the leadership there. but this is so fundamentally against the right of parents to safeguard their children and to determine who, when and where can have, you know, temporary, custody of them for purposes, you know, in this case of, of education. And to think that a non relative in any case, I mean it's not even just if they have proof that the parents are illegals or that the parents have been taken by ICE or you know, some even modicum of rationality that would be a correlation to this nonsense. I mean, to just say that anybody can come for any child for any non disclosed reason with this affidavit, I mean, that's beyond insane. And yet it has a likelihood potentially of actually passing in California.

>> Frank Gaffney: Well, here's what's going to happen. And please, all of you in 49 other states, please listen up. This is what happens when the California government is unchecked because it is a Democrat super majority. The Democrats own everything in California, so they don't any longer have to put anything to the public for vote. They just rubber stamp things through. So, Jenna, here's where we're at. it has been making it through committee, and it is going to, make its final showing on Friday this week, and it's going to be approved. and then on Monday or Tuesday, it will then go to Gavin Newsom's desk to become law. The reason why you and I are talking right now, Jenna, is because Tuesday I am asking everybody in the state of California, I mean everybody, to show up at the state Capitol. We've got to permit to do this. And we are going to rally at, the state Capitol, and we are going to be, doing what we've done before in the past, Jenna.

Parents in California plan to protest school choice on Tuesday at 9am

Not all, attempts have failed us when we have shown up in force in Sacramento. Newsom has backed down in the past. He has actually tabled his voting power to put it into law. He's actually kicked it down the road. And here's the fun part about this. Gavin Newsom is actually a politician, which means he, he actually goes with who makes the biggest noise. And so if he looks out his window and sees 5,000 people, which has happened before, and he sees that we are against this, he's got presidential aspirations. And so I'm asking all of America to pray for us on Tuesday, and I'm asking all of California to show up on Tuesday at 9am at the State Capitol.

>> Ryan Walters: I'll be there, among others.

>> Frank Gaffney: And we are going to address the governor and we are going to make our voice be heard. Because like I said, for many of us, this is the last stand. if it passes, then a parent can no longer assume that they'll be able to pick their child up at the end of the school day, that their child will even be there.

>> Jenna Ellis: Wow. And so this is, next Tuesday. So that would be the 19th, is that right? Of August?

>> Frank Gaffney: That is correct.

>> Jenna Ellis: So the 19th of August, 9am M. Pacific Sacramento, the state capital. If you are in California, I would encourage you to be there. as Pastor Jack said, they that he has a permit. And I know from speaking to state legislators around the country, if they get even 10 phone calls on an issue, they are like, oh, somebody's paying attention. If they get 100, they're really paying attention. But if you get 5,000 people outside say that are parents that are saying, this is not okay, and we will leave, that makes national news. That makes Gavin Newsom, who's probably eyeing 20, 28 and wanting to look a little bit moderate. that makes him very uncomfortable because I think you're right, Pastor Jack, that ultimately he's a politician, which means that you can't count on anything that he's going to do. And we as Christians can use that to our advantage to hopefully encourage him to, to do the right thing in this case.

Assembly Bill 495 could undermine parental rights, says Pastor Jack Hibbs

And, so this is, ah, Assembly Bill 495. And is this, to your knowledge, is this just for picking up kids from school or could this be from, like daycare, after school activities? Are there any limitations?

>> Frank Gaffney: that's a great, great question. I'm going to, I'm going to default and answer you this way. Our legal counsel has told us that this written so vaguely is a attorney and a liberal judge's dream come true because it can be applied in so many different ways. So I guess to answer your question is it appears that it could be used for any, adolescent or child situation where, the ploy or the supposed intent is that we're protecting this child by taking this child from the authorities, because there's an illegal parent involved in the mix. And yet it doesn't exactly say that. They do say that's why they wrote the bill.

>> Jenna Ellis: And I think we're. Go ahead. We lost you for just a couple seconds there, Pastor Jack. So you were saying, you know, this is, this is why, you know, they're writing the bill. And in my view as well, in reading of this, this may even include, child care staff at a church. For example, you know, you have somebody coming in. Here's an affidavit to the child care staff of a church. What happens in that instance? I mean, I know what your church is going to say, but.

>> Frank Gaffney: Yeah, but you are exactly right. Here's the thing. Where does it apply? To whom? is there anyone exempt from this? There's this blanket affidavit.

>> Frank Gaffney: Gosh, I'm sorry, I should have sent it to you, Jenna, before the program because I actually have one. it is absolutely ridiculous. It seems to be more difficult to get a dog license than it is to get this affidavit. Affidavit. To get some child that might live down the street from you, or like you said, a non relative can take your child out of school without you knowing. If Newsom passes this bill, it's.

>> Jenna Ellis: This is just wild. And I'm so grateful. Pastor Jack Hibbs, he's the pastor of Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills, that you are sounding the alarm on this and that you are informed on this, because this is so incredibly concerning. And you're absolutely right that the left and those in, power in the state of California, they care more about who is, you know, licensed to have dogs than they do about children. And there's a reason for that, of course, which is that they believe that the state is the substitute for the parents, and the state can determine welfare of the child. And when they have any pretext they want, they can ultimately undermine parental rights. And that's what's going on here. They are not abiding by the established authority of that God gives solely to parents. And, Christians need to stand up and fight against that.

>> Frank Gaffney: Yeah, absolutely. Well said.

>> Jenna Ellis: And. And so this is called the Family Preparedness Plan act of 2025, which is, you know, their cute little way of saying, this is a good thing, you know, because who doesn't want Family Preparedness Plan? Right. I mean, these, these bills, you can never trust, what they're saying. And, this I'm sure, as well, Pastor Jack will face legal challenges if Gavin Newsom ultimately signs it. And of course, you know, you're encouraging people to go to the state capitol, Sacramento, at, 9:00am Pacific Time, next Tuesday on August 19th, and to basically have your voices heard. Tell Gavin Newsom, don't sign this, but in the event he doesn't listen, goes ahead and signs it, then I'm sure there will be litigation on this. Right?

>> Frank Gaffney: Ah, yeah. Jenna, I'll just say this. At this time, you are correct. We are, we're already circling our wagons. We're talking to the right people. we are preparing ourselves for Newsom to sign it. if he doesn't, hooray. If he does, he's going to need to hang on because I think there's going to be a lot of mama and Papa bears very upset. Then they're going to remind them, about this, immediately and certainly when he attempts to run for president in 2028.

>> Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And as. As you should. Absolutely. Pastor Jack Hibbs, I'm so grateful that you joined us, tonight. And this is where we as Christians need to be as savvy and strategic as those on the left. and I'm thinking, you know, of outfits like the ACLU and, you know, some of these that immediately when President Trump signed, you know, his 200 executive orders, they were prepared with lawsuits. They came right away and said, you know, we're challenging this for all kinds of, you know, other frivolous reasons. but they challenged it immediately. And so it's a great thing that we have people like Pastor Jack and, others, and, lawyers who are willing to stand up and say, we are going to be prepared. If it reaches that point, we'll be prepared to litigate it. And we need to pray, as the church, as families, as Christians, that this kind of evil would not ultimately prevail in California. So you can follow Jack Hibbs at RealJackHibs on X. I'd encourage you to do that on Instagram as well. You can see the videos he puts out. That's how I found about out about this, because I follow my dear friend Pastor Jack and I want to know what's going on so that you can know what is going on. And we together can hopefully protect parental rights in this country. We'll be back with more here on the Hamilton Corner. I'm Jenna Ellis filling in for Abe.

If we lose this cultural war, we're going to have a hedonistic society

>> Frank Gaffney: If we lose this cultural war, we're going to have a hedonistic, humanistic society.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Discover the story of the culture warrior Don Wildmon and how he went head to head with Hollywood playboy, the homosexual agenda and the Disney empire. The movement Don started paved the way for Christians to boldly stand for true truth and righteousness in a hostile culture. Watch Culture Warrior today for free. Visit CultureWarrior.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: Movie culture is a product of us being placed in a particular location. And it is God's desire that his light bearers would culture or cultivate a particular area.

>> Speaker H: Join Abraham Hamilton III as he presents the Biblical case for cultural engagement. It's a powerful video resource from the American Family Association's Cultural Institute series.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: You and I create the culture of our country.

>> Speaker H: Visit afastore.net Climate change is truth exchange.

>> Joseph Parker: This is David Wheaton, host of the Christian Worldview. When God created Adam and Eve, he gave them a dominion mandate to wisely rule the earth in worship God. Instead, man rebels against God and worships himself and the earth. This has led to all manner of foolishness with the environment. Cows and crops are bad, oil and gas are bad, and humans are especially bad because we cause climate change. Their failed predictions of doom and gloom prove they are false prophets. Romans 1 says, they exchanged the truth of God for a lie in which worshipped and served the creature rather than the creator. Hear our most recent program on climate change with a christian [email protected] and then tune in this weekend for another topic that will sharpen your worldview.

>> Ryan Walters: Listen to the Christian worldview with David Wheaton, Saturday mornings at 8 Central on American Family Radio.

>> Abraham Hamilton III: The Hamilton quarter podcast and one minute commentaries are available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

The Supreme Court is formally asked to overturn a landmark same sex marriage ruling

>> Jenna Ellis: Welcome, welcome back to the Hamilton Corner. I'm Jenna Ellis, regular host of Jenna Ellis in the Morning right here on American Family Radio from, seven to eight Central, eight to nine Eastern. And have the distinct privilege of filling in for my good friend Abraham Hamilton iii. And we've been talking throughout the program about the three institutions that God ordained. First and foremost, the family government, the church government, and then ultimately the civil government that is supposed to protect and preserve the rights of the family, which is to keep marriage intact, to keep parental rights intact, and then the church's authority, to exercise, all of the things of teaching the truth of the gospel of Christ, church discipline, all of those things that the church is designed to do. The civil government is designed to preserve and protect that while the civil government isn't doing such a great job, here in America currently. but we have an opportunity to remedy one of those wrongs. And that comes as the Supreme Court is formally asked to overturn a landmark same sex marriage ruling. That, of course, is Obergefell v. Hodges. And in a petition for writ of cert, that's just the fancy legal term for asking the court to hear the case. this coming from ABC News, last month, Kim Davis, remember her? She's a former Kentucky clerk, who refused to issue marriage licenses to gay couples. She argues First Amendment protection for free exercise of religion immunizes her from personal liability. But then she's also arguing more fundamentally that extending marriage rights for same sex couples under the 14th Amendment's due process protections was, quote, unquote, egregiously wrong. And this is the first opportunity, really, that the Supreme Court has head on a decade later to agree with that and right this egregious wrong. So let's welcome in Mike Donnelly, who is an attorney, who has been a constitutional law professor, has taught me a lot about, the U.S. constitution and also international law. You can follow him on X at Donnelly Speaks. And, Mike, let's talk about overturning Obergefell.

The Supreme Court will hear arguments on whether to take Obergefell case

>> Ryan Walters: Well, Jenna, yeah, let's talk about that. And first of all, the court has to decide whether or not they're going to take the case. Obergefell was decided about 10 years ago and it is extraordinarily unusual for the court to revisit precedent of that magnitude in such a short period of time. It's almost never been done. There are a few cases where precedent was overturned within a year or two, but almost never. interestingly, Justice Kennedy, who wrote the majority 5, 4 opinion back in 2016 timeframe, was authored two opinions that overturned cases related to Obergefell. Of course, I'm talking about Windsor, which invalidated the Defense of Marriage act, or part of it anyway, back in 2013. And then before that Lawrence v. Texas, which was a case which struck down anti sodomy laws, in 2003 out of Texas. And so Kennedy, going back a long time, has been writing opinions about this issue of homosexuality, of LGBTQ rights, typically been on the side, on that side affirming and pushing forward those rights, so called rights. And now the Court is going to have an opportunity to consider whether or not they want to overturn Obergefell. Which, let's remember what happened back in, when that case was decided over 30 states, maybe 32, 31 states, had already codified in their Constitution that marriage was defined as between a man and a woman. That means that Justice Kennedy and his four liberal justices who joined him at that time swept away the wishes of tens of millions of Americans who had already decided that in their state. This is how they wanted to define marriage. And let's remember also that the United States Constitution does not say anything about marriage. In fact, the marriage, the family, those issues have been primarily left to the states until the Court started getting into what Clarence Thomas has called for, a repudiation of which is substantive due process. And we can talk a little bit about that if you want to for the folks. But ultimately the Court has to decide one, are they ready to overturn precedent that was decided 10 years ago, which Justice Roberts, by the way, Chief Justice Roberts wrote an incredible blistering, indignant dissent against Obergefell, basically saying, who do we think we are? That's exactly what he said in his dissent, basically criticizing the Court for overriding the, separation of federalism, of washing away tens and tens of millions of state voters decisions when he wrote that dissent. And I think that if the Court does take this case, which I'm not sure if they will, but if they do take it, I'm virtually, certain that it'll be to overturn it.

>> Jenna Ellis: Well, I haven't yet read the full petition, for writ of cert, but I hope that the lawyers who crafted it quoted Justice Roberts to himself as, as they're the, the Court is going to be reading this petition. So that he can be, confronted with the fact that, he said this 10 years ago. And that's still true. And you know, as, as you mentioned on my program this morning, Mike, and you're mentioning right now, I mean, this is something that, for those on the left who are crying out, well, what about democracy? And you know, all of this, the gerrymandering nonsense, blah, blah, blah, you know, like democracy, democracy. And what about the people? Well, what about the people? What about the states that their opinions, their const, their own state constitutions were undermined and overridden in an unconstitutional fashion, a federally unconstitutional fashion by this outrageous opinion? what are they saying to this?

>> Ryan Walters: Well, they're wringing their hands and they're very afraid, and they should be because you've got a 6:3 majority. And you know, I think that would overturn this if they took it. And the question is going to be whether they're ready to do that or not. They should. this opinion was wrong when it was written. It's been on a collision course with the Constitution since it was written. And it's just like Roe v. Wade, was wrong when it was written. It's based on very poor logic. You know, Kennedy tried to twist the equal protection clause to redefine what marriage is. And that's what he did, saying that, you know, there's no difference between men and women essentially, when for thousands of years, and God's word says that marriage is the union between a man and a woman trying to redefine a word that we all agree to, that virtually every civilization in the world agrees to. This is what. And if you want to do something different at the state level, you want to have a civil union or you want to do something that recognize long term interests among people who have these very close relationships for whatever reason, fine, you can do that. that's not marriage. And you know, the Supreme Court in the United States had no constitutional authority to redefine the word marriage for Justice Kennedy's own personal views with his four liberal friends. So, yeah, and that's what it's about. Are the states going to decide, are we going to continue to move the needle back towards federalism, where we are a, you know, a republic, and we rule ourselves. We are not ruled by judges. We get to make our own decisions. And if the states want to do things a little bit differently in areas, that's fine. And that's what we're doing with abortion, although I think we are, we've gone in the wrong direction. I think the states are getting it wrong there. some of them got it wrong here. But at the end of the day that's what a republic is and I would rather have that than being ruled by nine men or women in black robes from Washington D.C. yeah, well said.

>> Jenna Ellis: And I'm speaking with Mike Donnelly is an attorney. You can follow him on X. I would encourage you to do that. At Donnelly Speaks, he, pontificates. They're almost as snarky as me quite often. I think we have an ongoing battle.

>> Ryan Walters: I tried, I'm not even close because.

>> Jenna Ellis: I think we have an ongoing battle of who can be the snarkiest. And I'm, and you all heard it here, that, that I'm winning that clearly. So woohoo for me, the queen of snarks. yes, I love that. I'm going to put that on my business card actually. But, and, but, but practically speaking, you know, when, when Dobbs overturned Roe, there was legislation in place that was, you know, so called trigger legislation that would immediately have protections, in place for, unborn babies. And you know, of course that's all being litigated and all. And so if the court were to take this case, overturn Obergefell, what happens to the state constitutional amendments that were in place prior to Obergefell?

>> Ryan Walters: Well, they would be back in force. and you know, people are like, oh no, what about, you know, people who have gotten married and that sort of thing. And there is federal legislation that was passed in 2022 called the quote unquote Respect for Marriage act, which I should call it the Disrespect for Marriage act, whatever. Congress passed that and that law basically says that if a marriage is valid when performed in a state, then it must be recognized in other states and by the federal government. So people who have relied on Obergefell and went through and have same sex marriages that were, you know, valid in the state, then those will continue to be recognized. but going forward the states will be able to decide for themselves whether they're going to recognize those marriages or not.

>> Jenna Ellis: And so would, would that sort of precedent, then just encourage, if Obergefell was overturned, just encourage California and Vegas, basically, who I'm sure will be perfectly fine, to continue same sex marriages even after, we get rid of Obergefell. Would, would that then just encourage same sex couples to go to those states and then they could return to their home state and basically compel the home state to say, well, I was validly married in California or Vegas. And so you got to recognize it.

>> Ryan Walters: Yeah, I think we would have another case that we'd have to decide after that. And I think the answer is probably yes. I mean, that's what's happening with, the life issue. You know, some states are trying to make themselves out as abortion destinations, which is so sad and shocking. But at the end of the day, that's the battle we're called to fight. You know, there's truth and there's falsehood. There's good and there's evil, and we live in the world where both exist. And we need to point people to the truth, which is the gospel. I mean, at the end of the day, everybody needs a Savior. And whether people are in a homosexual marriage or have had an abortion or thinking about having an abortion, at the end of the day, there is forgiveness from Jesus Christ. And, you know, he forgives all sin. He did it on the cross. And so all people need to do is confess their sin and they will be saved, and then he will lead them into living a righteous life. So at the end of the day, that's the most important thing. But we still have to stand for truth. We have to protect what is right. And, you know, we have to communicate God's word to people about what is true and what is just.

We hold our civil government to the ultimate authority from which they derive their powers

And there are good reasons for doing that.

>> Jenna Ellis: Absolutely. And we have to hold our civil government to the ultimate authority from which they derive their powers, which isn't just in our constitutional republic, consent of the governed. We actually have a higher authority than we, the people, which is God himself. And our declaration points to that, calling God the supreme judge of the universe, talking about the laws of nature and of nature's God. And it's God's authority and the order, that he has, that in his three institutions that he's ordained. That requires us to compel our civil government, to promote good and restrain evil. And so this is one of those times, and in just the last few minutes that, we have, on the program, but also with you, Mike.

Mike Donnelly: Ultimately this affects children and it affects parental rights

Donnelly, what about the implications and the public policy argument here that this isn't just about marriages and, you know, two consenting adults and that whole kind of libertarian bent. but ultimately this affects children and it affects parental rights as well.

>> Ryan Walters: Well, that's. That is for sure, Jenna. And, you know, marriage has always been about other people and not about the two individuals, but the homosexual, you know, interests and the lobby. And that movement, unfortunately, you know, makes it more about the feelings and the, the pleasure and satisfaction of the individual person. But that's not what marriage is about. I mean, if anybody's ever been married, they know it's not about you. Even though you want it to be about you, it's really about the other person. And it's about the future, future generations. You know, marriage is about procreation. It is. God has ordained the family as the institution where children are born and they are to be brought up with a mother and a father. They need both. And God's ultimate purpose is that we as parents communicate who he is to future generations so that they are able to come into relationship with him through Jesus Christ and can be saved from the sin that stains all of us. and that's why it's important to fight this battle, so that people hear the truth. Not just that, oh, you can do whatever you want. It's about autonomy. We get to deliver our lives however we want. That's the lie that was sold to Eve in the garden. You can be like God and decide good and evil for yourself. No, we don't get to decide that. There's good, there's evil. God has ordained it. He's communicated it to us. He's written it on our heart. And we need to teach that to our kids. That's what marriage and family are all about.

>> Jenna Ellis: I love it. And so well said. And that's, entirely what we need to focus on as Christians is ensuring that we are protecting the family where. And we're protecting the institutions that God has ordained for the purpose that he ordained them. Because remember, in the very beginning of this program, the purpose of Christians in relation to these institutions. We talked about the family. To model Christ centered love and holiness and also to provide, in the context of marriage between one man and one woman, but in the context of parentage, to provide the environment to train up a child in the way he should go. Because discipleship is given to the parents, not to the state, not to anyone who claims that they want to be a parent. children are given to parents for training and fear and admonition of the Lord. we should also be members of a church that, calls us to serve and edify one another, remain faithful to biblical truth and in civil society. Let's engage a salt and light on these issues. Pray for our leaders, pray for the Supreme Court, pray for Gavin Newsom as he's contemplating signing this horrendous bill. We have to be the salt and light. so Mike Donnelly, thanks so much. You can follow him at Donnelly Speaks. You can follow me at Real Jenna Ellis. And as always, you can reach me and my team, Jenna fr.net and it has been such a great privilege to sit in for the great Abraham Hamilton III right here on Hamilton Corner. And, be with you tonight on af.

>> Speaker H: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.