Transcript

Hamilton: Be ambassadors even in this dark moment

>> Caroline: Darkness is not an affirmative force. It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light. This is the, Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

>> Joseph Parker: It should be uncomfortable for a believer.

>> Alex McFarland: To live as a hypocrite, delivering people.

>> Caroline: Out of the bondage of mainstream media and the philosophies of this world.

>> Joseph Parker: God has called you and me to.

>> Alex McFarland: Be his ambassadors even in this dark moment. Let's not miss m our moment.

>> Caroline: And, now, the Hamilton Corner.

Alex McFarland sits in for Abe Hamilton when he is traveling

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome to the program. Alex McFarland here tonight sitting in for attorney, pastor, journalist, broadcaster Abe Hamilton iii. You may know me from Exploring the Word, which now for more than 15 years has aired live Monday through Friday, 3 to 4 Central, 4 to 5 Eastern, and in the time zone of your choice on the American Family Radio Network. But I have the great privilege. Some of you are aware of this on a somewhat regular basis. I sit in for Abe Hamilton when he is traveling. And tonight is one of those nights. And we've got a different kind of show, but a great program, someone that I've wanted to have on the radio for a long, long time. She's a very prolific author, Karen Whiting, and we'll talk about her work.

Many people ask me how I got into Christian writing and being published

But let me say this. one of the questions that I get most frequently as I'm traveling, and if you've ever pondered this question yourself, tonight is a show that I think can be very instructive and very helpful for you. But many people ask me how I got into Christian writing and being published. And, I completely give God the glory. my 21st book just came out about six weeks ago and, you know, I give God the glory. Just this past weekend on townhall.com had an article published on, Christmas. that's what we call, you know, short form op ed. a lot of the sites, whether it be ChristianPost.com or CBN Town Hall.com Newsmax Fox News. You would be amazed, dear listeners, how your articles, 650 to 800 words max, your op eds could get published and could touch lives.

I want to talk about writing as ministry

And I want to talk about writing as ministry. I didn't go into it with the idea to make money. I didn't think about that. You know, whatsoever we do, we do as unto the Lord. And really to talk to us about the ministry of, biblical worldview, the gospel, scripture being conveyed through good writing. Honestly, there's about three names I'm thinking of, one of whom is with us right now, Karen Whiting. She's very prolific. She has been used by God in So many great ways. And I could recommend any or all of her books, but she has got a book about Christmas in Advent and me being the big Christmas proponent and fan that I am, I want to recommend that book. But without further ado, to talk about publishing, getting the gospel out through the printed page, our friend and colleague, Karen Whiting.

Alex: Karen Whiting is well known in publishing circles

Welcome to the program, Karen.

>> Karen Whiting: Thank you for having me on, Alex.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, it's. It's good to have you on. And, before we go too far, I want people to know about you, and I know you've got a website and Karen, Whiting. Whiting dot com. But I want to hear your journey. How did God bring you to this? your name is well known in publishing circles. the Tyndale Focus on the family, many of the people with whom I interact. you are well known. You've written a lot. How did God bring you to this point in your journey?

>> Karen Whiting: Well, as a mathematician and then as a mother of five, I never wanted to write a sentence. So this was very interesting. But God at one point gave me, basically called me to write. And I went on a retreat to pray about that. And while I was on this retreat, God gave me a vision. I thought, I've never had a vision before. And I thought he wanted me to write one book. And he held out what looked like a golden ball. And I said, so you do want me to write a book? And he pulled it back and said, no. And I said, so I'm off the hook. You don't want me to write? And he says, yes, I do. This is a seed planted. It will produce much. And then in my mind, I saw this tree full of books. And I said, oh, you want me to be a writer? And the next morning, I kept wondering where I should sit for breakfast at this retreat. And I said, I think I'm supposed to sit here. And at the end, we were told to turn over our placemats and that they would each have a unique painting. And mine was a painting of the vision. So Proverbs 3, 4, 5 on it. So that was quite a confirmation. I said, all right, Lord, I'll give you five years. If nothing's accepted for publication, even a tiny little thing, I'll, know. I didn't hear you right, but within five years, I had contracts for five books.

>> Alex McFarland: Oh, my goodness. That is great. Now, how did that come about? did you go and meet publishers or did publishers somehow pursue you?

>> Karen Whiting: A whole combination of things. Because, my daughter was dating a Young man. And they had just moved to town and that was senior year of high school. So I invited the parents over, thinking they would want to know more people not knowing. The mother not only was from Miami, Florida, where we were living at the time, but she was a writer with Zondervan. And so we started, becoming walking partners. And she took me under her wing to mentor me as I was learning to write. And then I went to my first writers conference where, you know, people gave me different advice. And one person said, if you're a beginner or intermediate writer, spend at least 45 minutes a day writing. And I thought, oh, with my youngest in preschool, that's about what I can manage. And they also said, look at all these things we're handing out. Sunday school. Take homes and everything else and start writing for some of them and get the Christian Writers Market Guide, which is the best book to start with. And I did everything they said and I started writing for a Sunday school quarterly magazine, which I didn't realize was published by Simon and Schuster. I didn't even know who Simon and Schuster was. And after I wrote for them for a couple of years, they called and said, would I do a book? And asked me and I said sure. So I did my first book with them. And from there it just started, snowballing. And I met a lot of people each time I went to different writers conferences and I would write for both the magazine and then put in proposals for the books. And most of the time those proposals for the books got accepted. The articles were, you know, a lot did, a lot didn't on those. Because you're always going to get rejected when you start.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. You know, I've found that writing articles is good because, for one it's practice at least in, in my case, Karen, just like anything sports or playing a musical instrument or anything, the more you do it, the more proficient you can become. And for me, the more I write and tons and tons of what I've written will never see the light of day. But it was just practice and working on things and then things come together and you submit things and they get published. I give God the glory. I had published a lot of articles before I ever got a book contract with Tyndale. And then I self published one book. But, for the aspiring writer, do you agree with that, that it's almost like any discipline, you need to do it and practice it, Just write things, whether or not they'll ever land anywhere. Do you think that's A good advice.

>> Karen Whiting: Oh, exactly. And I actually started writing for my church bulletin in exchange for. They paid for my registration for conferences so that I could become a better writer. Yeah, bartering is always a good thing to do. Yeah, helps out. But then I also. Yes, but it also gives you a sense of what you're good at and what people like of what you write. So you start noticing am I better writing for the younger people or for the older people or what and what should I be writing about? And you get to talk to editors when you go to a writer's conference. I can remember talking to the editor home life at the time. And I had put written up an index card for each one that I wanted to speak with about what I could pitch to them. And I sat with him at lunch and said so what do you want? He says I don't know exactly what I want, but I can tell you what I don't want. And everything he listed off would cross off the three different ideas that I had on that. So he said but I really want something that'll make me laugh. So I told him a very funny story about miscommunication with my husband and myself. And he said that's what I want.

Alex McFarland: Karen Whiting writes about communication skills

Write that up. And it became a feature article for their Christmas magazine. Unwrapping communication skills is what I ended up calling it. And so you learn a lot as you're doing that and when you take these classes, when you become part of a group, a critique group with other writers, which I did, although I'm not currently in one. I just don't have the time right now. I have certain people that if I want something looked at, I'll just send it to them and we'll swap off you know, as we need to for things. And that just snowballed as I started realizing where I really belonged was in writing for, to help strengthen families.

>> Alex McFarland: And let me say this, and I want you to comment by the way if you're just tuning in, Alex McFarland here with Ah, friend and colleague Karen Whiting, a prolific Christian author.

You do need an editor, Karen Whiting says

by the way Karen, before we go too far, what is the best website to direct people to, to familiarize themselves with your work?

>> Karen Whiting: Karen whiting.com okay. And w H I D I N.

>> Alex McFarland: G and I want to talk about, you've written on women of the Revolutionary War era. But let me just say to everybody you do need an editor. Whether it's just a friend to read and give some critique, you know I've experienced like first time writers say, no, God gave me this message and it's got to be printed as written. No, trust me, folks. And I learned this when I was working at Focus on the Family. There were a lot of editors, highly experienced that had written for James Dobson and Chuck Colson. And they gently, and sometimes not so gently, would critique and, you know, give me advice. And looking back, I'm, I'm thankful because multiple sets of eyes to read what you've written and they give critique and advice. It makes it a better finished product, doesn't it, Karen?

>> Karen Whiting: Oh, it certainly does. And when people say to me, well, but God gave me every word I said, you know, Peter might have said that too, but remember when he said one particular sentence and you can go find this and look it up, Jesus turned to him and said, get thee behind me, Satan. That he was basically saying, no, what you have has to be totally stricken. We have to know that we need to be edited. And that is so important. And there's so much that people don't know about the writing. And they will learn that as they write articles. I would write these articles, see it published, and then say, no, what have they changed so I know how I can get even better.

>> Alex McFarland: Indeed, indeed.

You mentioned book proposals. What is a book proposal and how does one begin

You mentioned book proposals. you know, if you would, Karen, explain what is a book proposal and how does one begin? Because to me, I mean, that's a key part of the equation in itself and almost an art form to write a winning book proposal. But speak to that, if you would, please.

>> Karen Whiting: Yes, the proposal is your first display of your concept to the marketing and, and the content of what you're writing about. And in that it's. The first couple of pages are very key because it lays out what you're doing. Proposals are longer because you also include two or three chapters usually. But in laying it out, you want to give them a description of the book, a hook which is only one or two sentences that could be done in 30 seconds if you were speaking it, sometimes a longer description. Now, all of these are actually used by a publisher as part of the ad campaign. Some will go into ad copy in the catalog. Some will go into little brief things they put out there. And you don't realize a lot of what you put in there ends up being, used by the publisher for, in various ways. Then you're going to put in, you know, how many words do you expect this to be? And what's the intended audience, secondary and tertiary audiences of who will read this to include your marketing Plans. And you don't say, oh, I'm willing to be on tv, radio, whatever, anywhere. No, you need to say I have been on or I have been taking training classes, to be a guest. And that experience or that training is going to go much further than just saying I'm willing to do it because that doesn't show you can do it or that you have done it. One of my first proposals, puppets. And I said, well, should I even put in that I'm a TV host because it's just a show on puppetry. And they said, well, certainly for puppets, but you always should because that makes people understand, you know, how to speak for media.

>> Alex McFarland: Exactly. And folks, that is your platform. And I want to encourage the, the aspiring writers out there to understand. And we'll elaborate on this and much, much more. Plus we will take questions and if you want to, ask a question about writing or communication or integrating, you know, God's word into what you write, Karen Whiting, and I don't say this lightly, but she's an expert. I mean, honestly. And we will take questions in the third segment. But this is the Hamilton corner with Alex McFarland and Karen Whiting. When we come back, we'll talk about the ministry of the gospel through the written word and we'll talk about how your platform plays into the doors that can open for you. Stay tuned.

American Family Radio Network wishes you a Merry Christmas

The American Family Radio Network is back after this brief break. We do wish you a merry Christmas. We pray it's a joyful Jesus filled Christmas. Stay tuned.

>> Joseph Parker: A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker looking in the book of Romans, Romans chapter 12 beginning at verse 1. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. For I say through the grace given to me to everyone who is among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith and individually members of one another. Father, we thank you once again for the wisdom, the powerful grace, the powerful understanding and insight that is ours as we spend time with you one on one in your word each and every day. We thank you and we praise you in Jesus name. We do pray.

>> Caroline: Amen. Shining light into the darkness.

American Family Radio welcomes Karen Whiting to the Hamilton Corner

This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome Back to the program. Alex McFarland here we're talking with Karen Whiting. Karen Whiting.com is her website. You know, it's important to talk about writing and it's important to talk about the ministry. And it is a ministry to write because, you know, it's been said, folks, that your life is shaped by the books you read and the people with whom you associate. And I had a professor in graduate school and he used to always say, tell me who your friends are and tell me what you're reading and I can predict who you'll be in four to five years. And I think about in my own life, my life was utterly changed. The trajectory of my life was set by two books that I read as a brand new believer in college. More Than a Carpenter and Evidence that Demands a verdict by Josh McDowell. And those two books, I had never heard of the word apologetics. But as a brand new Christian, just days into my Christian faith, trying to witness to my buddies at college, I came across two books by Josh McDowell. And little did I know that the next 35 years of my life would be in apologetics and worldview. Karen Whiting, our guest right now.

What books or authors impacted you coming up? Karen?

I'm always curious because I love to hear people's story. what books or which authors, impacted you coming up? Karen?

>> Karen Whiting: Well, one of them was Dr. Bob Barnes writing a book on raising your children for responsibility. So as a parent that was great. And I did end up going into books to help the families in many ways because that book helped me a lot. The other one was a book on how to study the Bible by, Carol Mayhew. And that really changed how I understood scriptures. I'd been reading the Bible since I was about 10 years old. But that made a big difference of how that impacted me and how to apply those scriptures in life and how to help others do that. And that's so much a part of what I do because I've done a lot of devotions where you're using scriptures to help children understand, understand that our women understand that. And then there's other books I do. Even my, when I realized I'm doing this for family and I was asked would I like to do something in the Battlefield and Blessing series on maybe World War II. And I just laughed and said that the editor had already book in time and a book on home for them that I didn't know anything about war strategy, cannons, machine, guns or anything, but I could do a book on the home front and they said, what would even go in that? And I said, oh, that would be those untold stories of women that are behind the men and the daughters and the mothers through all the war times, starting with, you know, the French Indian War. But then Abigail Adams, who had so much to say, about women and the war and did so much to help out. And so that's where, because I know what I'm called to write, I know when to say yes and when to say no.

>> Alex McFarland: you know, before the break we were talking about, the two P's, the proposal and the platform. And Karen, I remember this is 23 years ago at my own expense, I flew around the country to several publishers and I had some ideas about apologetics. And I remember when everything changed, when I mentioned, and just by the grace of God, I'd been on the radio on one single Salem radio station in North Carolina for about three or four years and it had grown and I was getting speaking invitations and I just mentioned, I said, you know, God's given me a platform. And the acquisitions editor said, tell me about your platform. And I said, well I'm speaking about 75 nights a year all around the country. And I realized that it wasn't so much the content of my proposal, but it was the reality that the Lord had given me a bit of a platform and that's grown.

Karen Kieran: If God has called you to write, pursue ministry

So talk if you would, about the aspiring writer, because I'll say this, I'll throw it to you, Karen. if God has called you to write and if you want to pursue the ministry of writing, folks, don't think about the money you might make because unless you're, you know, Dr. Dobson or somebody, you're probably not going to make a lot of money. I mean it's ministry. But the thing is, it's a 20 year commitment. I mean I really believe that and I praise God for it. But the ramp up of really hitting a stride and becoming fruitful, it is a long term commitment, at least in my experience. But talk about platform and viewing this as, as a long term stewardship. Kieran.

>> Karen Whiting: And there's two things there that stewardship of stewarding and nurturing the people who are your readers. But also you often find you are going to help other people who want to become writers. And that's why, on the board of directors of a group of over 1100 Christian women who write and speak and and I became a writing and marketing coach because people needed that type of help. And so you do have that side, but it starts so small. My first rejection was for a puppet script because I had a big puppet ministry and had a TV show on puppets. they had a little form they could send me and check off anything you did wrong. Everything was checked off on mine, every single thing. And I looked at and no, no, it's okay. I'm a very analytical person. I looked at my husband and said, look, honey, if I write a puppet script and they can't check anything off, they'll have to buy it. And he said, oh, sure, honey. That's what I did. And I had the kids performing. It took me about two months. I sent it in and within two weeks they bought it. So it did help that when you take that criticism and when you hear what people say, you're not doing right. If you can flip that around, then you can start selling. And that's what I did. And that's important. Now, as I said for me, I started with articles because I was told if you want to get anywhere, you have to start with articles, whether it's Sunday school materials and take home materials or whatever. And I went through the Christian Writers Market Guide and I would, jog your pages. I'd read five minutes a night and check off anything that I thought I could write for, especially where they had tips. And I thought, oh, I could do that. And started writing and sending things and making sure I submitted one thing at least every month. And within really just a few months of that, I started selling these different articles, puzzles, pieces, whatever I sent, and I kept track of that. I had a sale of something every month for a hundred straight months. By that time I was a columnist and I just stopped counting any of that. I mean, I. I've sold over a thousand articles now and written quite a few that aren't, you know, that are just free for different reasons.

>> Karen Whiting: But midst of that, I also did the book proposals and started selling those. Well, actually with Simon and Schuster, because I was writing for their quarterly magazine. They called and asked me if I would write a book. And that happened a number of times. I have had people when I thought, oh, I think I'm not getting as much. Maybe God wants me to stop writing and retire from this. I had two or three editors come to me and ask me to write books and to talk about what I could write. So they will pursue you at certain points and you never know when that will happen. You just have to be ready and willing. I had received contracts for four books in the same week of My birthday week one year now, only about two years after I was really into writing. And then I got a no on another book. And I said, oh Lord, I'm so thankful I got a no because I couldn't have done five. And I had to spread out how to do things for the year in order to get that done and, and negotiate the deadlines.

Do you advise Christian writers to use an agent or just do it themselves

>> Alex McFarland: So let me ask you this. and I've got friends in Christian publishing. some are thumbs up, some are thumbs down on this. What about a literary agent? Do you advise Christian writers to use, an agent or, you know, just do it themselves?

>> Karen Whiting: I've had an agent for a long time and I am with an agent and for me that's been good because I don't really like to negotiate contracts. My husband was a negotiator, but I was not. And so that puts me a step away. I don't have to get into a fight over anything. I can let my agent know what's a killing, point for me and what I would like and they take care of that. So the agent looks bad. I don't ever look bad or look like I'm arguing. They also know what's ah, out there and what people want. And that's really through an agent is how I got into Tyndale. I was already writing for some other publishers. I had written for Barber and Concordia and other places. But they got me into Tyndale and that was very good and I've liked that. So sometimes they can take you from where you are and bring you up a step. And they've always gotten me more in the contract than I think I would have gotten on my own.

Do you feel like the public is reading like they did

>> Alex McFarland: Do you feel like the public is reading like they did? I mean, I've read articles, Karen, about that. We are literacy, levels are slipping and But before we go there, let me ask you this. some of the iconic writers like CS Lewis, CS Lewis. Mere Christianity Chronicles of Narnia. Lewis. He died in 1963, but he's an iconic writer and an absolute icon in the world of apologetics. Mere Christianity is a tough read. I mean I've read it many times. I've taught through it, at the college level. Here's the question. Could C.S. lewis get published today?

>> Karen Whiting: You might have to be more creative. You know, one copy of Christianity is actually done as a comic book form. And that's how we taught our children was with that one. Especially since the 2 year old, as opposed to the 16 year old, liked all the Pictures and liked to look at wormwood and everything and whatever. I guess that was a screw tape, letters that was in the car. Yes. And so I think sometimes they. He may have had to find a creative way to do that. But certainly I. His book is still so iconic. I think that same books that he would have written would have gotten through. I don't know know, you know, I sometimes look and say, would my books have the early ones that I did? And I really don't know. Although many of those sold quite well. everything changes all the time. All we can do is say if God has called me to it, I have to do what he's called me to do. I may become a great writer, I may not. I may be a supporter of other writers than other things that I am doing. You know, you look at Luke and he wrote two books, the Gospel of and Acts. And he was a detailed resource writer. I would say that was a historic resource that he gave us. And whereas Paul wrote many letters, Peter only wrote two because he was busy in a leadership role. And so we have to look back at how God used those different people that he called to write and how he may be using us, not to aspire and say I have to get to 100 books or 50 books or whatever. I, I thought if I get you one, that'll be amazing. And you know, I'm at 34 with three more releasing in the next couple of years. And it's always praying about what does God want me to do and where is he going to open the door. And is this a book or is it just an article or series of articles which if they do very well, that could later be a request for you to do a book. I did so well on one article I did on prayer. That was a number one article on Crosswalk that I got a contract to write a book on family. Prayer for families.

>> Caroline: Mm

>> Alex McFarland: We're gonna take calls in a few moments, folks, if you want to get in the queue. The number is 888-589-8840. Triple 858-98840. Maybe you've got a question about how to get published and what to write.

Karen Whiting writes fiction and nonfiction for Focus Family magazine

our guest is Karen Whiting, a SME. An SME. A subject matter expert, really. And let me ask you this, Karen. did you feel like you were called to fiction, nonfiction, or can someone adequately write in both worlds?

>> Karen Whiting: friends who write in both words. I was called to write in the nonfiction world and Focus Family actually twisted my hand to have me write one short story for Clubhouse for the Kids magazine and they had to write it after I wrote it and I had somebody else help me with it. And I thought, see, I'm really not the fiction writer. I started with a non fiction article I wanted to do for them and they wanted me to turn it into a fiction story and it was humorous and they did use my little situations of humor, but that's not my forte. And yet I use fiction technique to write a lot of storytelling that I do within the books that I write. So if I'm doing a devotional, those are right very well as a story. If I'm doing an article that is perhaps, an interview of somebody, sometimes that's better to write their story and put it in a good storyline rather than to write it as a Q and A or some other format.

Social media has diminished people's attention spans, says Karen Whiting

>> Alex McFarland: What do you think about how much people read and the attention spans? I personally think, social media, Internet has, at least to a degree diminished people's attention spans. Has that impacted how you write?

>> Karen Whiting: Yes and no. Because I will find that I write a lot of books where there's a lot of little blocks. But that's because I am writing for young people a lot. Even when I write for adults, I'll. I'll still put a little box of a key thought or an application to break up the text and that will help. You know, now where I'm writing a deeper subject for the tweens that comes out in 27 of biblical archeology for children. Digging deep, uncovering God's truth through biblical archaeology. That's a big subject. But we're taking the biblical story. Jesse Floria from Focus in the Family and I. Jesse. Yeah, We've done four books together. Okay. So at any that was taking the Bible story and making that really fun creatively and then taking the artifacts or the dig that was found and writing that in a more scientific way and you know, various other things that we did within it. I mean, we added in jokes and some fun things and factoids for the kids. Kids. So we have these breakups and these parts where the children can put in their words. And so for kids that can be very, very good. And that's why even for adults, like a Bible study isn't just done as a lecture. You have the parts where people respond and places for them to fill in because it helps them break up and pause and think about things. So I, I find that people who want the subject will read the book.

>> Alex McFarland: Sure. we've Got a break. We're talking with author and really writing coach and publishing expert Karen Whiting. This is the Hamilton Corner with Alex McFarland on the American Family Radio Network. As always, you can listen to this show again. It's archived along with so many other [email protected] and, I would encourage you, if you're aspiring to minister through the written words, listen again. And when we come back, we are going to take phone calls. The number is 8885-8988-4088-8589-8840. Your questions on publishing Christian writing and the ministry of the word through the printed page. Stay tuned. More with Karen Whiting after this.

Andy Miller is president of Wesley Biblical Seminary in Mississippi

>> Karen Whiting: Hello, my name is Andy Miller and.

>> Joseph Parker: I'm the president of Wesley Biblical Seminary based in Ridgeland, Mississippi.

>> Alex McFarland: We are developing trusted leaders for faithful.

>> Karen Whiting: Churches and we do that based on.

>> Joseph Parker: The authority of scripture and in the.

>> Karen Whiting: Reality that Christians can be transformed. We do that also through bachelor's, master's and doctoral degrees. We'd love for you to learn more about Wesley Biblical Seminary at wbs.

>> Joseph Parker: Edu where we're developing trusted leaders for faithful churches.

>> Karen Whiting: Jerusalem, oh, Jerusalem. How many times I would have taken you under my wings.

>> Alex McFarland: They had everything that was necessary for.

>> Karen Whiting: Them to know Jesus and follow Him.

>> Caroline: and they went their way.

>> Alex McFarland: I think for nations, for individuals, there is a day that you have to make the decision to respond to the Lord. And it might be that the door of opportunity after that shuts. Exploring the word weekdays, 3:00pm Central on AFR.

>> Joseph Parker: Islam in America. This is David Wheaton, host of the Christian Worldview. Those bent on fundamentally transforming the United States have settled hundreds of thousands of Muslims in our country in order to diminish our Christian ethos and to build their modern day Babel. The problem is that Islam is not about assimilation, but political takeover and subjugation of non Muslims. Just look at what has taken place in Dearborn, Michigan, Minneapolis or NewSong York City. Jesus told his disciples to be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves. Christians should be shrewd about not letting this false religion take over our land and yet innocent in living pure lives that proclaim and exemplify the gospel. Hear our most recent program with Darrell Harrison on [email protected] and then tune in this weekend for a special Christmas program.

>> Karen Whiting: Listen to the Christian Worldview with David Wheaton Saturday mornings at 8 Central on American Family Radio.

>> Caroline: The Hamilton quarter podcast and one minute commentaries are available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Some of the most iconic life changing pieces have been created through writing

>> Alex McFarland: You know, I, think about writing and some of the most iconic, life changing pieces that have been created were just little personal projects. I love the movie It's a Wonderful Life, of course directed by Frank Capra. but it began as a little essay in a Christmas card that a man self published. There are only 200 copies, but it was called the Greatest Gift. And it was a little story that was put in Christmas cards. And just in the providence of God, it found its way to Frank Capra, of course, Jimmy Stewart, Donna Reed, one of the great pictures. And for many a family, my own included, it's just not Christmas to. You've seen It's a Wonderful Life that Mark Twain self published. CS Lewis self published his first work. And so folks, you can minister through, writing and the Holy Spirit of God can use your creativity. I would just say, go into it to give God all the glory. And our guest Karen Whiting has certainly done that and been used by God in a great way. And we're going to take calls. The number is 888-589-8840. But Karen, for anyone listening that wanted to, you know, not only avail themselves to your books, but get to know you or maybe solicit your help in as a writing coach or mentor, how could people get in touch with you?

>> Karen Whiting: Well, they can email me at author Karen Whitingmail.com. there's also a contact form on my website that they. And they can follow me on Facebook and chat with me there and Pinterest and other places that I'm at. I am always on the online conference that Marlene Bagnell does, the Christian Writers Conference. Let's see the. It's the, I'm trying to think if it's right for him. but that conference, which is held in August, they can get to know me there and be part of whatever group I'm teaching because she often has me do a continuing class or a clinic there. I do other conferences during the year. I'm not sure what I'm doing next year yet. I have to think about that a little bit.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, we're going to take a few calls. hold that thought.

Author Karen Whiting is writing an autobiography of herself

let's, go to Alabama. Allen in Alabama. Allen, are you there?

>> Caroline: I'm here.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, welcome to the program and our conversation with Otter. what am I saying? Author Karen Whiting. Allen, what is your question?

>> Caroline: Hey, Ms. K. How you doing? Alex, I want to let you know that. I'm Allen from Emmanuel Baptist Church in Vicksburg, Mississippi. First of all, I got you to come there and speak for us, several years ago.

>> Alex McFarland: Thank you very much.

>> Caroline: Alabama. I moved to Alabama to be around my grandbabies, and I wanted to learn the Coosa River. I'm a big fisherman. I'm a bass fisherman. And I was fishing a tournament one night, and just the Lord spoke to me about writing a book. Okay. So I'm in my fifth chapter at the moment, and the book is going to be called Fishing, for Christmas. And I just, I'm putting it all together to where, you know, I'm letting him speak to me through it. But, you know, you got to believe into what.

>> Caroline: What.

>> Caroline: What you're throwing, where you're at, conditions you're in, things like that is how my book is being laid out. But I know nothing about what I'm doing. I mean, all I know is this.

>> Caroline: I have. I am writing an autobiography of myself, and, But he led me to do this, and so I've been doing it, and I really don't know what I'm doing, so.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, Karen, now I'm just thinking, initially, I mean, this would be a good book marketed to men. But, what advice do you have for Allen? Karen?

>> Karen Whiting: Well, two things. Because he's a pastor, right? I would make sure that he keeps contacts with wherever he has pastored and rekindle any that he has left behind, because they are going to be a great source for him for a platform for him to speak and for him to contact them. Do a postcard campaign to let them know once a book is out. The other thing is, he says he doesn't think he has any idea. And the first thing in writing is just write. Then you go back through, start editing and start reorganizing and say, oh, this part belongs in this other chapter. I just was thinking it through, and it just flowed out. But I see it doesn't. It doesn't have the adhesiveness to be in this chapter, and it would go there. So first write, then start reorganizing and editing and get someone else to edit. Not just your wife or someone who loves you, because they're always going to like the book. You need to find someone who's going to be more critical of the book and give you very constructive feedback.

>> Alex McFarland: You know, I have found that, English teachers are really, really good readers and editors, you know, and, in fact, there's. There's one in particular, Linda Kiger. Who is a just wonderful retired teacher and I let her read almost everything I write and she, you know, gets out the proverbial red pen to help me. Ah, we say this, iron out the wrinkles. So Allen, that helps to get some objectivity.

Word count for Christian books depends on the book

And Kieran, let me ask you this. So let's say he writes his book. Did you have a word count you would go for? Like most of my books are 50 to 60,000 words. But what word count count do you go for or does it depend on the book?

>> Karen Whiting: It depends somewhat on the book. Okay, so your general non fiction that's going to be Christian living is usually 40,000. If you're doing a 365 day devotional you're going to be at over 80,000. If you're doing apologetics or a more serious topic that can go to the 60,000. So it does depend a, ah, fiction can be anywhere there. no, never over 90,000 though, I would say. And a lot will stop at 75,000. What you have to think if you start having a huge amount of words is you probably have more than one book and you can divide that up into two books, sometimes three books because you thought everything you wanted to say you could put into one book. And sometimes God has more for you to say than will fit in one and you're trying to cram it in and it's going to be too jumbled up and you need to separate it out and figure out how many books you really have.

>> Alex McFarland: Thank you, Allen. let's go to Iowa. Patty in Iowa, thanks for holding.

Author Karen Whiting speaks about Cedar Falls Bible Conference

Welcome to our conversation with author Karen Whiting.

>> Karen Whiting: Hi Alex. And Karen. I met you, Alex, a couple of times at Cedar Falls Bible Conference. Visited with you after you spoke one evening.

>> Alex McFarland: Oh yes, I gotta say. Hang on, Patty. For those that may not know, the Cedar Falls Bible Conference is one of the great treasures of our nation. For over 100 years, the city fathers planned a century ago that there would be an annual Bible conference. And they've had Erwin Lutzer and John MacArthur and great speakers over the years and it's been my privilege to be there on several occasions. And you ought to Google it. Our dear friend Matt Reisner, is the leader of it. But people come from all over the Midwest to the Cedar Falls Bible Conference every summer. And That's right, Patty, that's you. You've been there many times and God bless you, sister.

Karen Whiting wonders if there's Any market anymore for poetry

What, what question do you have for, Karen Whiting?

>> Karen Whiting: Well, I wondered if there's Any market anymore for poetry, and even maybe turning some of it into hymns. Okay, markets for poetry, they have always been somewhat slim. And yet if you can do more than just poetry, and again, you can start with writing for some magazines. You know, Decision magazine usually has one poem in it. And I would say if you're doing that, think of a page spread, not just a poem. Can you put a sidebar with that poem? So maybe the poem is on grief and the sidebar might be tips of what to say to someone who's grieving. And, poetry is still a good sale for children because they like the rhyming books. But for adults, one of the problems with poetry is people who write poetry. When I ask them, most of them don't buy poetry, they think, well, I'll just write a poem. And so if you're not going to buy within your own genre, who is going to buy it? And one way to get known is to write poems that are short that you can write for greeting cards. If, though, if your verses can become very popular there, it makes it much easier to start selling books. And that's, some of the ways you can do it. And when you do do poetry, remember that the spoken word is becoming more popular. So when you're writing poetry, start doing a podcast or a very short Facebook live all the time of reading poems out loud so that you will start building a platform of followers who like your words and your poetry.

>> Alex McFarland: Patti, thank you for that really good question. You know, Karen, I love to read myself and I think about reading and I encourage people, folks build a library because I know we all read on screens and the Internet is ubiquitous. But many a study has shown when you handle a book, the term is haptics. The haptics of handling a book, turning the page, I mean a book book. Okay. our assimilation and recall is stronger. We assimilate new knowledge into the existing knowledge we possess and then we're able to recall it more. And, so build a library. You know, there's a quote attributed to John Wesley. I don't know if he really said it, but I've read this quote. those who read lead, regardless of who originally said it. It's good admonition. And regarding that, Patty, best loved poems of the American people. That is a must have book in my opinion.

Alex: Karen Whiting has written a book and a blog

Let's go to Texas. Jerome in Texas.

>> Joseph Parker: Yeah.

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome to our conversation with Karen Whiting.

>> Karen Whiting: Jerome?

>> Caroline: Yes.

>> Alex McFarland: Are you there, Jerome?

>> Caroline: Yes, I'm here, I'm here.

>> Alex McFarland: You're on what you Got brother.

>> Caroline: Oh, okay. Yeah. I just wanted to say thank you. And, I think radio is going on, so I'm going to cut this off. Can you still hear me, Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: We can still hear you.

>> Caroline: All right. My. My niece came up to me during a concert, and she told me that God told her that I'm supposed to write a book about my sordid life before crisis, during and after. I've been really not doing good at going back to some chapters that I wrote. And I just wanted to ask Ms. Whiting, is it okay to have affiliate of writer's block and then go back to it? Because I didn't get that confirmation from God. But, if my niece got it and God says do it, then I guess I got to do it. So I just wanted to get her hear her thoughts on this.

>> Karen Whiting: All right. A little bit cut out on me. And that was the part about the blog. So did you start writing a blog and now you're turning it into a book? Is that part of what you're saying?

>> Caroline: No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Miss Wife. She told me to write a book, and I started writing chapters, mostly about my childhood, my family members. And I wanted to, The name of the book is going to be called, Take the Deal. And it's going to curve into, you know, Trump being the deal maker and God also having a deal for us that is just foolish to refuse. So I want to bring it into ministry. And I've started out just talking about my family members, and then I just went into writer's block and got, you know, I got thrown, off and. Yeah.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah.

>> Caroline: I just want to know, is it. Is it a good idea to go back and let me hear your thoughts on that? Thank you.

>> Karen Whiting: Okay, so you've written the book and you've also been writing a blog. And should you go backwards to that, that's always good. Because when you're writing a blog and you're getting feedback, you understand what touches people and what they care about more. And that way you can go back to the book and say, are there parts in here that is just for my family? And no one else would understand it. But the main story, if I strip away some of the details no one needs to know, might be the best. And what part, if I did a similar thing that was a blog, hit people, that I have to make sure that's what I'm going to emphasize in this part of the book. Each time and each, with each story, what should I be Emphasizing that is the lesson is the message God wants them to have. So I think, again, because writing develops your writing, just the practice of it. And therefore the blog and the book are both practice and each can make the other better as you look at the components of them and what you've learned and what feedback you are getting on them.

Karen Whiting: AI is polluting how people read online

>> Alex McFarland: Karen, let me ask you this. And by the way, thank you, Jerome. Best, regards and God's blessings, in your writing endeavors. Karen, what about AI because when I'm reading articles online, I'm talking even major news sources, you can spot AI content from a mile away. AI is that polluting how people read and certainly how content is generated.

>> Karen Whiting: It's certainly putting too many more words into the online space. And because people are using AI to write things that are not facts.

>> Alex McFarland: there's so much error. Forgive me. We're almost out of time. I didn't realize how far we are along. Karen, whiting.com we've got to visit with you again. I appreciate you so much this evening. I wish you and your family a very merry Christmas. We'll talk again soon. in the meantime, folks, remember, for the Christian, all of life is stewardship. Let's serve Christ and serve him well. God bless you all. The views and opinions expressed in this.

>> Caroline: Broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of.

>> Alex McFarland: The American Family association or American Family Radio.