Transcript

J. Abraham Hamilton III hosts American Family Radio's Hamilton Corner

Abraham Hamilton III: Darkness is not an affirmative force. It simply reoccupies the space vacated by the light.

Abraham Hamilton III: This is the, Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Abraham Hamilton III: It should be uncomfortable for a believer to live as a hypocrite, delivering people.

Abraham Hamilton III: Out of the bondage of mainstream media and the philosophies of this world.

Abraham Hamilton III: God has called you and me to be his ambassadors, even in this dark moment. Let's not miss our moment.

Abraham Hamilton III: And now, the, Hamilton Corner.

Abraham Hamilton III: Good evening, everybody. Welcome to the Hamilton Corner. Abraham Hamilton III is my name. Welcome to the program. I am joined by the produce extraordinaire. Often imitated, never duplicated. The real J. Mac, ladies and gentlemen. And don't forget to check out his Mac visions. Go ahead and check it out to see what needs to be seen so you can do what needs to be done.

What goes on in your house is far more important than what happens in White House

At this very moment, many of you, if not most of you, are making your transition from your part time jobs where you generate an income, to your full time jobs where you cultivate an outcome. And as you do so, I want to remind you to do so with intentionality. Understanding the primacy that God places on the family, recognizing that the first human institution that he created was in fact the family with marriage at the center. He did that intentionally to inform how we engage. Because simply put, what goes on in your house is far more important than what goes on in the White House. This is stated not to minimize the significance of what transpires in the White House. I mean, this week has underscored just how important that is. but with all that has transpired there, you and I are directly accountable and responsible for what happens in our home. Because we have direct influence and control over what happens in our homes. And if we do not respond accordingly, if we do not respond accordingly, the significance of that, of the impact and the results, it's innumerable. You know, I've often stated, if you look at the metastasizing Leviathan state, it corresponds directly to retrenchments in the family. The scripture says if a man doesn't care for his own household, he's worse than an infidel. The more families have gone away, for example, from caring for our, elderly relatives, our parents and things, government amplifies its efforts to do so. The more the family structure is decimated in the home, the nuclear family is decimated, the more the welfare state expands. It's a direct correlation. And for too long we have not recognized that correlation. And those are kind of what I would describe as external metrics. But if you look at the internal fiber of our nation. As the family is eroded, we are also eroding God's primary mission station for generational Christ following fidelity, because the parents are primarily responsible, according to Scripture, for evangelizing, catechizing, and discipling our children. But as the families continue to be attacked and as the families continue to be eroded, no surprise that the spiritual formation of our nation similarly is eroded. We have not arrived where we are currently overnight, but we certainly have arrived here, due in large part to us, unfortunately embracing a societally normalized diminishment of the significance of the family. You know, I know President Trump's slogan was make America great again, but I'll just tell you plainly, you can't make America great again without making family great again in America. And you can't make family great again without God being our central focus, not just offering mental ascent, but recognizing humility and submission and engaging in the lifestyle of worship, the pinnacle of which is obedience. The pinnacle of the lifestyle of worship is obedience. So as you're making your transition, I want to encourage you to do so, recognizing what God has done in making the family and giving you and I the express privilege to be a part of. Of his work. To the Word of God we go. To the Word of God we go. Trying to get some of this shine off this forehead, Jeff. my forehead looking like an 8head on this camera, boy, but y' all laughing at. To the Word of God we go. Psalm 51. Psalm 51. This, Oh, man, I've been. Been meditating on this, and actually in our family, devotional and worship time, I talk to my children about this. and this is unfortunately a conversation that has not had frequently enough in our society. But in Psalm 51, David makes a statement, and this is when he is expressing contrition, following his horrendous sin, with Bathsheba, and then ultimately the. The attendant sin with Uriah compounding and amplifying his sin. But as he's confessing and repenting, he makes this statement in that expression. Psalm 51, verse 6. Psalm 51, verse 6. Psalm 51. 6. And it says this. Behold, you desire truth in the innermost being, and in the hidden part, you will make me know wisdom. The King James says, behold, you desire truth in the inward parts. Truth in my innermost being, truth in the inward part. Guys, there is no premium you could place on integrity. Obviously, we should be people who are truth tellers and people who tell the truth. But God, as he always does, drills down deeper than that truth. In the inward part, very rarely, and there are some circumstances that are exceptions to this, but usually when people lie, and the lies are lies of commission, where people are affirmatively offering statements to deceive, and there are lies of omission to where people intentionally omit information for the express purposes of deception, people sometimes exaggerate to make themselves look a little bit better than they are. Other times, people diminish others to make them look and see a little bit worse. What God desires of his people, man is truth in the inward parts, truth in the inward parts, and in the hidden part. You will make me know. Wisdom. Wisdom. There are people, man, who will, lie for money. They'll lie for other things.

Jeff Bennett: Recent phenomenon of pastors having public falls and moral failures

And the thing I want to encourage you with this evening is what do you really see when you look in the mirror? Who is the real you? Not only assessing your conduct and external engagement, but what is the attitude and intention of your heart when you put head to pillow at night? Is there internal conflict or you at peace or, or. Or are you at peace because truth abounds in you? In the inward part, it is greatly disappointing. You know, you have. This is not like the biggest issue, but you have this issue, like with Adam Schiff, you know, the US Senator now from California, US Representative previously from California, you know, declaring a residence in Maryland as his primary residence, clearly in an effort to achieve mortgage favorability. If you know anything about mortgages, you know that you get better rates on your primary residence than you do on a secondary residence. And I'm not even getting into, like, the criminality of it, because that is. That's mortgage fraud. If you're lying about your residence. That's. That's. That's a, That's a criminal. That's a criminal offense. It's mortgage fraud, no doubt. But beyond that, are you comfortable telling lies? Is that okay with you? Is it a circumstantial analysis? You know, situational ethics? I think one of the big problems that we're facing, even with this, you know, relatively. Not relatively, but recent phenomenon of pastors having public falls and moral failures. One thing that I know is that the God that I serve was the God who has revealed himself in scripture. Yeshua Messiah. He's a gracious and loving God. It's the same. This same gracious and loving God that says he chastises those whom he loves. He corrects those whom he loves. I know that there is never any. Well, let me say it this way. I know when there are phenomenon or circumstances where people experience public failures, public Moral failings that those public exposures have followed. God appealing to these people in private before they ever exposed publicly. The Lord is appealing to them by his spirit. The Lord sends people their way. The Lord convicts them personally with nobody else's involvement. But what happens is people stave off that conviction. You know, you had the recent, you know, social media phenomena. I saw this when I was in Phoenix last week where you had the CEO of the Astronomer Corporation, right? He's hugged up with his adulterous spookamaboop at the Coldplay concert, right? And I. And I just. I just want you to just think about this. This man is married to his wife who's not at the Coldplay concert. This woman who he's hugged up with is married to a man who is not at the Coldplay concert. But they, at the concert, you know, they just, you know, they swaying, swaying. And he hugged up looking like, you know, somebody at the junior prom. All the thing they're missing is that the loud suit and corsage, you know, but you know that they know that they are wrong, that they were wrong. And you know that they knew that they were wrong before they got to the Coldplay concert. You know how, you know, as soon as the camera gets on and what do they do? What they do? Jeff, you saw. I know you saw this video. Soon as it. Look, it's a couple's cam. So think about this. It ain't like they're surprised that there's a couple's cam. They just don't expect the camera to come on them. Coldplay the problem. Yeah, yeah. Everybody welcome tonight. Beautiful people in the audience. I see you out there. And then the camera is swirling and searching, you know, then. Then the camera hits them. What is the first thing old boy does? He's under the table. He's under. He's. He ducks. He's ducking. Trying to duck out of camera view. What's the first thing old girl does? She turns. If there was any inclination that them being hugged up at the Coldplay concert wasn't a problem, they never would have reacted that way. But notice this. This is what I'm driving at. Notice it was not until the camera was focused on them did their physical posture acknowledge what they already knew inside. You get what I'm saying? That was a public demonstration of a lack of truth in the inward parts. Because the acknowledgment of the truth required external compulsion. The Coldplay concert camera. And then you have all the attended circumstances. Now they're going to face divorce you know, the. The astronomer CEO's wife is saying she going back to her main. All this other kind of stuff, all of that stuff subsequent. But if there was truth in the inward parts, you cannot tell me that was the first time that they considered man, you know, what we doing, we're wrong. We file out here. I want you to consider that they acknowledge what they were doing was wrong only with external compulsion. But truth in the inward parts would have you recognize it initially. And I'm not talking about just an egregious example like adulterous affairs. I'm talking about integrity, man. We need a revival of integrity. But I know that's only going to come with an outpouring of God's spirit.

Joseph Parker: God calls us to be disciples and to make disciples

But as for us who are in this audience, man, truth and the inward parts. That is what God desires.

Abraham Hamilton III: A discipleship minute with Joseph Parker.

Joseph Parker: In the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 28, starting in verse 18, it tells us these words. And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

Abraham Hamilton III: Amen.

Joseph Parker: that contains what we call the Great Commission. God calls us to be a disciple and to make disciples. And that's a command God lays before us each and every day. Every day is a day for us to follow Jesus Christ and to be involved in the work of helping and teaching and encouraging others to follow Jesus Christ as well. Ask someone how you can pray for them. Encourage someone to read three chapters in the Bible every day. Pray for God to help you to both be a faithful disciple and to make disciples as well.

Abraham Hamilton III: Shining light into the darkness. This is the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Abraham Hamilton III: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner. Abraham Hamilton III with you. Thank you for tuning into the program. I'm delighted to have on the program with me the CEO of Classical Conversations, Mr. Robert Bortons. Classical Conversations is an organization, a ministry that includes, I would say, an educational methodology that has grown from supporting homeschoolers in about 40 states to supporting homeschoolers in over 50 countries. You heard that? 50 countries. And has become the world's largest classical homeschooling organization under the guidance of its CEO, Robert Bortons. Mr. Bordens, thank you for joining me here on the Hamilton Corner.

Robert Bortons: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be Here. And God is good.

Abraham Hamilton III: Amen. Amen. God is good.

Classical Conversations helps parents homeschool through high school

I want to start simply by asking you to share with the audience here what is Classical Conversations.

Robert Bortons: Yeah, so Classical Conversations was started in my family's basement in 1997 to help people homeschool through high school and give their children a classical Christian education. And so, we've done that for almost, I, ah, guess 28 years now. we curate curriculum, we provide services, and we equip parents to build flourishing homeschool communities. And kind of what we do that's different in the marketplace of homeschooling is we create a local community where your family can go, with other families. Typically around, you know, 20 or 30 families are in a community and once a week have accountability, do things like public speaking, you know, science.

Abraham Hamilton III: Do.

Robert Bortons: Things like debate, all sorts of different activities that you can't really do alone. So we like to call it Home centered Education more than homeschooling, because once you kind of get into it, you, you know, you're very rarely at home with your kids because you're out doing all sorts of things. And so what Classical Conversations does is, use that classical methodology that aligns, kind of with brain development the way that God created us, and, that accountability of community.

Abraham Hamilton III: I like how you say that Home centered Education people, who know in this audience that I'm a homeschool dad, I was, we were talking before we came on the air, that I heard you speak last year at the HSLDA National Leaders Conference. I'm on the board at hslda, and I'm quite familiar with classical methodology, and I love that I get lots of questions about homeschooling. And Classical Conversations is a tremendous option for home centered education because it has, in my view, kind of a great mix of the home being the center of it. But you also, build or participate in a community that is similarly focused. So really you end up having families helping each other out in their efforts to really disciple their children, including the cultivation of their minds. how would you describe the kind of community developed aspect that is unique, to classical conversations?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, well, the Bible says, you know, three strands.

Abraham Hamilton III: Three strands. I'm waiting for the rest of the strands for technology. It's amazing when it works and when it.

Robert Bortons: I'm sorry.

Abraham Hamilton III: Oh, no. That you're back with us. Okay. I can hear you were saying, the Bible says three strands, and that's the last thing we heard.

Robert Bortons: Okay. The Bible says three strands are not easily broken. And so, community helps us lift each other up. Right? If we're on a long journey of education, you're not always going to have a great day. and so you need each other. And so, classical conversations, you have the parents, you have those tutors that are helping the parents. And then you've got, you know, the classical conversations that trying to find the best materials, the best way, to help you out. You know, we have message boards, we have academic advisors. So just a group of people helping each other. It's a truly grassroots movement. It's you know, just, older women supporting younger women, teaching them, you know, what to do. So it's really designed a lot off of what we see in the Bible. And that that community aspect is a positive peer pressure. And it's friends, not just for the kids, but for the parents. Because when you're doing something hard and homeschooling is hard, raising children is hard. Right? Let's not lie to people. it is difficult. And when we can do it together, we can, lift each other up on those tough days and support each other. So it really is a community. And you know, you always get stories every single year that bring me to tears of, you know, someone getting sick or some tragedy happening in that classical convers conversations. Community stepping around that person or that family, making sure that they have everything they need.

Abraham Hamilton III: M. I want to make sure we get this in and I'll do it again later in the show. But where can people go to find out more information about classical Conversations to consider whether or not it's an option that would fit their family?

Robert Bortons: Well, yeah, of course we're on all the social medias but classicalconversations.com and if you put in your zip code, we're actually going to hook you up with a local homeschooling parent that will answer any questions for you. So it'll be someone probably within 30 minutes of your house, maybe, even in your same neighborhood, that will love to talk to you about homeschooling and classical education.

Abraham Hamilton III: I want to definitely get the classical education, but I want to take a few minutes and just ask you, you referred to God being good. How the Bible serves as an anchor for the classical conversations. methodology in terms of instruction with a home centered, pedagogical development. Your CEO now you said you started the classical conversations your family did in 97 in your basement. How did you come to faith in Christ Jesus?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, being homeschooled, you know, I would say I almost know Jesus from the beginning. when I was five or six, I remember just being in church and hearing a sermon in Seattle, Washington area where we were living at that time. And my mom had recently, said that she believed in, you know, believed in Christ. And you know, my dad wasn't there yet. but you know, just from that time forward I had always just kind of believed there wasn't any particular moment that you know, I can remember. But just knowing God from being very young and that doesn't mean, I mean there's plenty of times, especially as a young adult trying to find my own way and testing the scriptures to see if they were real and just realizing that the world did not have anything to offer us. And so I, would say when I was 27 years old, I rededicated my life to Christ, and just have not, turned to the left or right since then.

Abraham Hamilton III: And how did that, kind of roil over into you becoming CEO of Classical Conversations?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, I mean I always loved being homeschooled. I always tell people if Classical Conversations didn't exist, I would still be homeschooling, my own children. but having that experience of being homeschooled myself, you know, being a parent now is a different, you know, worldview and you know, a different perspective on that whole endeavor. But I just loved being homeschooled. I had an industrial engineering degree from Clemson University. I did that. I worked for some Fortune 500 companies, worked my way up the corporate ladder. And just as Classical Conversations was growing, my mom needed more help and support. And I just felt like God was saying, it was time to come, come home and, and help her out and help other people see that, you know, homeschooling doesn't have to be scary, doesn't have to be, confusing. And so I came on board and started helping out with our marketing department and some of our different services, our testing service at the time and just kind of did a, did a transition with my mom over a couple years to take over day to day operations of the organization.

Robert Miller: There are three stages of learning in classical education

Abraham Hamilton III: Now I know Classical Conversations is kind of in the word classical. we used to understand in America what the classical educational methodology included. Would you just help our audience here understand a bit what is classical education?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, so there's kind of two perspectives of classical education. The first one is just the methodology. And so you might have remembered or even when you're younger, heard of grammar schools now they're called elementary schools. But grammar schools basically means, it's really the art of naming, attending, memorizing, expressing, and storytelling. And children love all of those things. And it's just they memorize copious amounts of information. So they memorize things like the periodic table, the, multiplication table. And those things sound boring to adults, but they. Kids enjoy it and you can do it. So it's a lot of fun by playing games and stomping around and doing jumping jacks and putting them to songs. And so the first step of classical education is just getting in a lot of knowledge inside of the children's brains. They don't necessarily understand it yet. And that's when that next, phase called the dialectic or logic stage, that's typically kind of in middle school or early high school where they've got this amazing amount of information and they're starting to put it together. They're starting to see how.

Abraham Hamilton III: Oh, we pause again. So the grammar stage is basically, like the informational download stage, if you will. Right. the informational download. And we have. I think. I think we have, Robert back. You back with us, Robert?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, yeah, sorry, I'm not seeing the issues on my end.

Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah, I don't. Man, I don't know what's going on. But you were explaining first the grammar stage of the classical educational model. and I just kind of summarized. It's like the informational download stage. it's just information being downloaded, information being input. And then you are about to transition into the dialectic or the logic stage, of the classical method or. And we'll get to it. But the Latin trivium, if you will, but go ahead.

Robert Bortons: Yeah, the trivium. Yep. So the dialectics, the second stage. And it's really where you're putting these ideas together and synthesizing them and understanding them. And then the final stage is the rhetoric stage where you can explain it to other people. And so, you're doing things like debate and mock trial and, writing papers and doing all those sorts of things. And so that's the stage of learning. Those three stages of learning you go through when you learn anything. So even as an adult, if you want to, say, learn how to change the oil in your car, right. You got to know, the grammar of changing your oil and the dialectic and the rhetoric is actually doing it. And so you do that. And then the other thing that the classical method is you go read original source documents so you don't read some woke professors. Interpretation of The Federalist Papers. You read the Federalist Papers and see what they're actually trying to say as they're creating our government. So you go read our constitution and someone else's constitution and you say okay, you know what, what do ah, other countries constitutions say? What does our say? Why does, why is ours. Why is ours stood the test of time? and, and things of that nature. So you go read like Plato and you go study Latin or Greek. And so you're trying to see what have the best minds in human history, come up with what has stood the test of time, both good and bad ideas. So yeah, we'll read Karl Marx and understand, you know, why so many, communist countries have had, you know, pain and suffering and all the terrible things that go along with it. So that we understand the world around us. So you know, if you don't know your history, you're doomed to repeat it. All about reading what the best minds have offered over the last 3,000 years.

The classical method was the predominant method of instruction in America before government funding

Abraham Hamilton III: Now this is, and you may be able to help our audience understand that, understand this. The classical method was pretty much the predominant method, of instruction that we had in America before there was really this, this mainstreaming of a government educational kind of complex. This is the way our founders were trained. This is the way for example Thomas Jefferson was trained. George Washington, you go down the whole list. am I articulating that accurately that this classical understanding and this approach to education was the way we did things in America since our founding up until a relatively recent. The recent past. Is that right?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, absolutely. So, the founding of America, roughly 90% of people were literate. And I only had the Bible, some reading readers and the local newspaper. And so, you didn't need ah, the government, funding education that actually came in after the Napoleonic wars, from the country of Prussia. So our truancy laws and public education systems, only about 200 years old. so for the first 50 to almost 100 years, depending on what state you are in, everything was classical education. But when Prussia lost the Napoleonic War, they wanted to have a fighting force, and someone who would obey their king. And so they created public education. And then people like Horace Mann, wanted to bring that sort of education to the United States and they did and installed our public education system.

Abraham Hamilton III: And, and people remember in our audience here, Horace Mann is the, the wonderful gentleman who I've referred to as quote in his lectures, on education, who said, we view those parents who have given Children to our public education system as having given hostages to our cause. In quote, Horace Mann is the one who said that. That he viewed the parents, who had surrendered their children to his, Prussian informed educational approach, diverging from a classical method that was anchored in scripture. I would argue, frankly, as having given hostages to their cause, which I've said. I don't view anybody who would say that my children are hostages as someone who's trying to help me. Is it that Horace man you're talking about, Robert?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, absolutely. The one that has about a thousand public schools named after him. And, I think, Topps baseball cards just released a baseball card with his face on it as a hero of American society. So, yeah, the guy whose reason why we have 34%, ah, literacy rate in the United States and why, you know, Jay Leno and people like that can make fun of, a man on a street, episodes of asking people, you know, who's the governor of their state or what city's the capital of the United States, or why we send money to foreign countries that no one can point onto on a map. That horse man.

Abraham Hamilton III: Yes. So the three components, the grammar, dialectic, or the logic phase of the classical trivium, and the rhetoric phase and accompanied with the original source reading, all of that was jettisoned. Would you say, that was an accidental phenomenon that transpired in our country? Would you say that was something that occurred intentionally?

Robert Bortons: Oh, it was absolutely intentional. you can go back and read their writings, what they were planning to do, and quite frankly, it worked. I mean, even Ronald Reagan in 1980, and I think most people would say, oh, our education system wasn't that bad in 1980. He said, if a foreign adversary put our education system, public education system on our country, we would declare it an act of war. And, it's only gotten worse since then. and we all recognize that during COVID and why, you know, the number of homeschoolers spiked from, you know, roughly 2 million to somewhere around 4 million, depending on whose numbers you want to look at. But, yeah, no, it was intentional. It was gradual. and, yeah, now we are tasting the bitter fruit of it as a society.

Abraham Hamilton III: You're listening to the Hamilton corner or watching the Hamilton Corner. My guest is Robert Bortons, CEO of Classical Conversations. We will continue this conversation when we come back from the break.

Don Hawkins hosts American Family Radio's weekly show, Encouragement

Abraham Hamilton III: When you hear this. This is American family news. You know, what follows is the truth. Your news from a Christian perspective.

Abraham Hamilton III: Hundreds of, teachers are going to have to walk into that school building and they are forced to swallow political.

Robert Bortons: Ideology that in many cases violates their very faith and conscience.

Abraham Hamilton III: If you miss it at the top of the hour, American Family News podcasts are available at AFN. And sign up for our daily news [email protected] hello, I'm Don Hawkins here to tell you about encouragement live. 55 minutes of industrial strength radio encouragement featuring resourceful guests plus practical biblical insights to help you face life's challenges. We'll be taking your phone calls, so plan to join us, for Encouragement live Saturday at 7:05pm Central, 8:05pm Eastern, here on American Family Radio. The Hamilton Corner podcast and one minute commentaries are available at afr.net back to the Hamilton Corner on American Family Radio.

Robert Borton is the CEO of Classical Conversations

Abraham Hamilton III: Welcome back to the Hamilton Corner. My guest is Robert Borton, CEO of Classical Conversations, the world's largest classical homeschooling organization. before we went to the break, we were talking about the trivium and how our nation has diverged intentionally away from the classical methodology. How Ronald Reagan observed in the 80s that had a foreign nation imposed upon us what the government educational system has imposed upon us as a nation, it would have been viewed as an act of war. Yet we have embraced it and we even fund it with our own tax dollars, much to our own detriment. Robert, reading your bio, I know that you also are on the academic board of the Classical Learning Test. I know this is a standardized test, one that is an option available, in contrast to the SAT and the act. Would you share with the audience here a little bit about the Classical Learning Test, what it is and why some might prefer to go with it as opposed to more conventionally known standardized testings for their children as they matriculate from primary education.

Robert Bortons: Yeah, the Classical Learning Test seeks to destroy the duopoly of the ACT and SAT and those college exemptions. Exams are driving curriculum. So they're part of the kind of woke agenda that's destroying our school systems. And so the CLT stepped, in and created a exam that shows, you know, that students are prepared. It's an alternative to it. It's being adopted in many states and even many colleges. It was a grassroots movement and now it's a national movement so that, our, academic institutions, our K12 education opportunities, can be classical and have an option for getting into college more readily. So it's, it's been around now for almost a decade. They actually have K through 12 options now, so you don't have to use those kind, of left leaning, of grade test either. So yeah, the Classical Learning Test is a huge step forward for educational independence and freedom, in our country in a way for colleges to see that these classically educated students are getting a great education and give them scholarships and things like that. So it's ah, Jeremy Tate and the team there have done a tremendous job.

Abraham Hamilton III: So with the Classical Learning Test, as you mentioned, to destroy the duopoly of the ACT and sat. ACT and the sat, is this something that is gaining momentum in terms of being a college entrance exam? And are colleges recognizing CLT scores, to make admission determinations for students? Currently yes.

Robert Bortons: So it started off by just knocking on doors and starting with private Christian schools. But now our Defense Department, Pete, Hegseth, has declared that our Air Force Academy and our military academies will all take it as part of the entrance exams. I think the state of Florida is taking it. Texas is working on it. So there's many states are going to be taking it in their public schools if they aren't already. And almost every single private school is taking it. And so what I say is if the institution doesn't take the clt, that's probably not where you want to send your kids. So I think it's a good barometer for parents who are trying to see what college colleges out there would be acceptable to keep their kids, sane and not have them come out as woke leftists. The CLT is a good barometer to say that they have education, independence, mindset and we'll look at other worldviews at their university.

Abraham Hamilton III: I want to make sure I put this information in the show notes. Jeff, the link, to Classical Conversations. Robert, where can people learn more information about the CLT?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, you can. the website I think is cltexam.com, but I'm not 100% sure. Just Google Classical Learning Test and you can find out a lot of information about it. there.

Classical Conversations has grown from supporting homeschoolers in 40 states

Abraham Hamilton III: All right. Now one of the things that we mentioned, and I mentioned this and this is in your bio that Classical Conversations has grown from supporting homeschoolers in America in about 40 states to now to over 50 countries. And we were talking before we came on the air, that you're seeing amazing growth internationally. What are some of the countries, that Classical Conversations just happen to be exploding in right now?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, before COVID we had about 3,000 international students and now we're gonna have about 15,500 or so this fall. and a good portion of those are in Brazil. South, South Africa, is growing as well. We just launched in India. we've been in Singapore and Japan. Of course, Canada is continuing to grow as well. So homeschooling, freedom and independence isn't just popular here in the United States, it's growing internationally. And because homeschooling, you know, kind of started its renaissance here in the US we're able to go into these countries and you know, propel them forward faster, give them you know, a stronger curriculum from the beginning and really support, them. You know, we've got, you know, like I said, nearly 30 years of experience here at Classical Conversations, homeschooling, and we can pour, you know, that experience into them and help them, you know, not make the same mistakes that we made and just encourage them. So it's been just a tremendous blessing. And we're even in countries that are closed down, homeschooling is not legal in every country, but we support homeschoolers in many closed countries. Being, a Christian, of course, we know, not legal in every country, but we're supporting Christians, in some of those countries as well. So, you know, God said, go to all the corners of the earth and preach the gospel. And that's what we're trying to do at Classical Conversations is give a robust Christian education, to every corner of the, of the world. And you know, maybe Elon Musk will take us to Mars.

One out of every eight Gen Zers will have homeschooled for a year

Abraham Hamilton III: Now you mentioned like some of the nations that we've talked that you mentioned, like India and Brazil and South Africa, these, Japan you mentioned, these nations are clearly very different culturally, linguistically. What is the driving force for homeschooling to expand in those nations?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, I mean, I think it's the same thing we saw here is that parents love their kids and they see that the state run organization of, you know, government schooling is failing them, that they are just becoming cogs in a machine and that they are, you know, not holding the same worldview and the same values that is, you know, their family holds. And so they want to be able to pass those ideas along to their kids as well as give them a great, classical education. So we didn't lose just classical education here in the US we lost it all over the world. And the modern education problems that we see in our public schools, foreign countries have, have those same issues in theirs.

Abraham Hamilton III: So in terms of growth, are you seeing similar growth here domestically as you're seeing internationally or is one outpacing the other?

Robert Bortons: Well, about 90% of our students are in the U.S. so, you know, we're growing about 30% a year or so internationally, which has been tremendous. you know, we used to do that all the time here in the US but as we've gotten larger, it's harder to grow at those same percentages. So we're still growing here in the US Starting new communities. you know, we would like to see one in every single town so that every single family can have access to classical conversations. And if we don't have one in your area, you know, part of our process is to help you get one started. And if you go to classicalconversations.com we'll help you get one started today.

Abraham Hamilton III: Man, it's so interesting, how this is just unfolding. And you mentioned that as following the shmovid lockdowns, a lot of parents got to see things for the first time that they hadn't seen before. And it led to a pretty significant growth in homeschooling here in America. but we still don't have, about maybe 4 or 5 million maybe, people. Generally speaking, that's not an exact number, but it's still a very, very small percentage, that is, that are homeschooling here in America. What do you think it would take for more people to be willing to take upon themselves as parents the responsibility for educating their children in a home centered fashion?

Robert Bortons: Yeah, well, I think.

Abraham Hamilton III: I think too man, technique, technology is great when it works, but when we have challenges, it is challenging. but I know you're back with the. Go ahead, Robert. Go ahead. I think you heard the question.

Robert Bortons: Yeah, no. yeah. So I think, part of it's just seeing that it's working. So I think it's naturally growing and it's going to continue to grow. I've seen research that suggests 30% of people are going to be homeschooling within the next 20 or 30 years. One out of every eight Gen Zers will have homeschooled for at least a year. So it's just becoming a normal part of life. it'd be helpful if pastors started preaching the Old Testament and holding the father's feet to the fire. You know, it says, hear my son, your father's instructions forsake not your mother's teaching for their graceful garland for your head and penance for your neck. Proverbs 1, 8, 9. you know, it says, you know, in Psalms and Deuteronomy and Ephesians, you know, they all say, parents, teach your children. And so, the Lord says that when the father's hearts turn to their kids, he will rescue their nation. And I think that's what we need right now.

Abraham Hamilton III: Yeah, I mean you mentioned the Old Testament, the New Testament. You refer to Ephesians. That was one of the passages the Lord used to, to wake me up. Ephesians 6, 4 fathers, do not exasperate your children, rather rear them in the nurturing and admonition of the Lord. And that phrase nurture and admonition comes from the Greek phrase paideia and newia of the Lord. And paideia literally means the whole training of the mind and the morals. And when I saw that, I was like, whoa, wait a minute. The whole training that we've kind of adopted this comfortable bifurcation to where kind of moral instruction and academic matriculation, those things have been bifurcated. But searching the scriptures, no, those things will never to be bifurcated. Then I'm saying, oh, as a dad, God is going to hold me accountable for this man that convicted me and, and, and really gripped me.

When God saved me, we spent some time praying about children

And it's one of the things which really leads into my next question. my wife and I both, you know, public school, you know, every people listen to the show, they know I'm from the hood in New Orleans, man, but God saved me. And then when God saved me and as I was approaching marriage and even before my wife and I had children, we spent some time praying really and fasting about should the Lord bless us with children, what are we going to do with them? You know, and then the scripture unsurprisingly has something to say about that. And so we were convicted primarily in recognizing that man. It's our jobs as parents to disciple our children. How can we do that effectively if we allow them to have their minds cultivated, frankly in a Christ opposing system of instruction? I felt like we would be working against ourselves. So it was recognizing that scriptural mandate, frankly from God that convicted us and led us to the decision that we made.

Parents domestically and internationally are choosing to pursue a home centered educational process

What are you finding as CEO of Classical Conversations? some of the reasons why, parents domestically and internationally are choosing to have to pursue a home centered educational process for their families.

Robert Bortons: Well, I think through Covid and just the rise of the homeschooling here in the US we've seen a lot more people choosing it for academic reasons and not necessarily for the moral spiritual reasons. But you know, those are still, very important to many families. And you know, they see that there is a failure of the. Those ideas being perpetrated in public school. And so they're taking it upon themselves because of our academic success. but they're also seeing it for moral reasons as well. So it's all sorts of different ideas. And internationally I would say it's definitely more of the moral reasons that families are homeschooling. you know, they they see the academic success but they are having the same sort of challenges, with different identity crisis that, that we're seeing here, internationally as well. So each family has a different idea of why they do it. But I think the thing that they all cherish most once they get into it is that strengthening of the family bond. And they didn't really, you know, necessarily anticipate that when they first were getting started.

Robert Borton: There is more academic focus in America regarding homeschooling

Abraham Hamilton III: Now m. When you make the observation that internationally people seem to be more inclined to having kind of a moral development reason for their decision to have a home centered educational process, is there any particular observations you would make from that? When you see m. It's morality in other nations around the world, but it's more academic focus in America as to what's driving that decision, what do you think could be contributing to that? Obviously I'm not saying that you are geopolitical experts expert, but I'm saying what just in your own observations, what do you think it could be underpinning that.

Robert Bortons: I did stay at Holiday Inn Express last night? No, I mean, I think it's just that kind of settlers mentality, versus the establishment. Right. So for here in the United States, you know, people had to be, you know, in the 80s and early 90s it was more a moral reason for homeschooling. And then they proved that the academics were worked and were outperforming, you know, every single other institution. And so parents are felt secure in making that leap because they, they could see the results versus in other countries. Yeah, they might have trouble getting into college still in their country if they homeschool versus Going through the government, you know, model. And so they're having to kind of have that. They know that it's working academically, but they're having to make a very moral choice there compared to what we have to do here in the United States. Just because it's become, it's become commonplace. You know, it used to be that you may have met a homeschooler. Well now you probably work with one or, you know, sit next to one at church or at whatever community group that you're in. So, it's just, proliferated here in the United States. it's a normal choice that people will make. And so it's not, it's moved beyond kind of those, fundamental, people who are going to make this choice because they feel like it's a moral imperative, like it was here early on in the United states.

Abraham Hamilton III: Got it. Classicalconversations.com. is that the website, Robert?

Robert Bortons: Yep. Classicalconversations.com and you, can go to refining rhetoric.com to listen to my podcast.

Abraham Hamilton III: Hey, Robert Borton's Finding Rhetoric. Classicalconversations.com. you all have a great evening. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.