Watch Culture Warrior today for free. Discover the story of the culture warrior, Don Wildman
>> If we lose this cultural war, we're going to have a hedonistic, humanistic society. Discover the story of the culture warrior, Don Wildmon and how he went head to head with Hollywood playboy, the homosexual agenda and the Disney empire. The movement Don started paved the way for Christians to boldly stand for truth and righteousness in a hostile culture. Watch Culture Warrior today for free. Visit culturewarrior movie.
Today's Issues features a Christian response to the issues of the day
Welcome to Today's Issues, offering a Christian response to the issues of the day. Here's your host, Tim Wildmon, president of.The American Family Association.
>> Tim Wildmon: Hey, good morning, everybody, and welcome to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Thanks for joining us here on AFR. It's Tuesday, July 15, 2025, and, just a few more weeks till football season starts and the attitudes of a lot of people change. Will improve, will improve greatly, until about the third week in the season, and then we revert back to depression. Yeah, no, I'm just kidd. Not all of us. good morning, Ed Battagliano.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Good morning to you, sir.
>> Tim Wildmon: Good morning, Wesley Wildmon.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Good morning. Some of us. Not me.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Or Alabama fans.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, and.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Or you get the idea.
>> Tim Wildmon: Chris Woodward. Good morning, Chris. Yes. No, Wesley, to your point.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Cole, Ohio State fans.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes, Cole, our, videographer in there. Yeah. Who keeps us stringing, makes us look good. Cole Green. How you doing, Cole? Good morning to you.
>> Wesley Wildmon: He's waving.
>> Tim Wildmon: Nobody can see him. He's off camera. He gets no glory in his job. Except he's wearing his Ohio State, hat today. And so I walked by and I saw him wearing his Ohio State. And, and so, I thought, yeah, you're looking forward to college football, you know, going in, you might lose one game. You might lose one game.
>> Chris Woodward: Losing season.
>> Tim Wildmon: and, so otherwise you're just going to thrash everybody for the most part.
>> Wesley Wildmon: And that's. Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: While other fans in the college football world go, I just hope my team, you know, is over 500. I was over five.
>> Ed Vitagliano: We get a bowl game.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes, yes. Yes. Must be nice to be born. Born in Ohio State. Or an Alabama or Georgia fan.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah. That's the school I was really looking forward to because Alabama, you know, they're down to losing two games now, so they're out, you know. Right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: I don't know what's wrong with the world. Alabama lost three games last year.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah. What was it?
>> Chris Woodward: I hate it. Let me tell you.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Oh, you hurt your.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Chris Woodward: I mean, I mourn with them.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Ed Vitagliano: The sarcasm.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, the, the gloom and sarcasm.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Is rich with this one.
>> Tim Wildmon: All right, so anyway, but, hey, college football season will be here. And for those fans who love it like we do here, it can't get here soon enough.
>> Ed Vitagliano: let's start in August.
>> Tim Wildmon: Late August, usually late August. They start with a couple of games.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Big games.
>> Tim Wildmon: Couple of games. That's right.
>> Chris Woodward: And 11am Kickoffs and a thousand degr. Yes.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Labor Day is the kickoff for most m. Of the Labor Day. Labor Day weekend.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And then about a month after the college football season starts, then my mood improves because hockey season. Hockey season.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Preseason starts.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's right.
Chip and Joanna Gaines beloved by millions across America for shows
All right, so, we hope you're having a, good morning, and we welcome you to our program. Today's issues Lot to talk about today, including our visit with Dr. Frank Turek coming up in just a few moments here on the program. I tell you what, we want to set this up now or wait till Dr. Frank gets on. I'm talking about the Chip of Joanna Gaines story. You want to talk about it right now?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, we can set it up. We can set it up now so that folks. And then we can just ask Frank what he thinks about it.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. Well, Chip and Joanna Gaines, of course, beloved by millions across America for their, shows on. On hgtv. And they. They built their following there. And then they. Didn't they buy a network or something like that?
>> Ed Vitagliano: M. I'm not sure.
>> Chris Woodward: Magnolia Network.
>> Tim Wildmon: Magnolia Network. so they did that, and, they've been, I haven't seen much of their programming since they left hddv because I don't.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Particularly care to watch other people build their dream house.
>> Tim Wildmon: I know. Listen, human envy is a strong thing.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Or some of these programs where they go, we want to, to buy or build our vacation home. And our budget is $1,000,000 for their. For their vacation.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's where you got to start on most of these shows. Yeah. In California, you can get a shed for a million dollars. Yeah. Who lives there?
>> Ed Vitagliano: If you can get approval from your local HOA or get a permit from the city.
Chip and Joanna Gaines have a new reality show about 1800s
>> Tim Wildmon: All right, so the situation, is, So they, The gains, Chipping. during the gains, they're. They're in the news now for something. What is that, Chris?
>> Chris Woodward: Well, they have a new show. It's called Back to the Frontier, and it's an HBO Max project in conjunction with their Magnolia Network. And this, the premise of this show.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, what's it called?
>> Chris Woodward: Back to the Frontier. The premise of the show is it's Taking families, to to live in the ways that people did in the late 1800s. So it's a reality show, Back to the Frontier. Allowing families to live like people did in the late 1800s.
>> Tim Wildmon: I'm sorry to interrupt you again. An 1800s reality show.
>> Chris Woodward: It's a reality show set in the lifestyle, of somebody in the 1800s.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So you have you. They have to turn in all their phones and, and whatnot. They dress like it, they have to eat like it. They. Yeah, there's no showers.
>> Chris Woodward: How much people are giggling right now? But yes.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Okay, one of those is probably gonna have to be. You're gonna have to see it to understand it. To understand it.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, so to reset, just. Excuse me interrupting. It's rare, but So. So Back to the Frontier is the name of the show. Yes, it's an HBO Max Max Cinemax. Right. Show that the gains are responsible for creating. So it's not on the Magnolia Network or hdtv. This is a entertainment program like a movie or a series.
>> Chris Woodward: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, I got you. So go ahead.
>> Chris Woodward: Okay. So the controversy regarding this is one of the so called families featured on the show is a homosexual couple with children. And that of course is a concern with a lot of people, namely Christians because Chip and Joanna are professed Christians and Christian fans of this couple, that have followed them for years are upset with them because they are allowing homosexuals and their children to compete on this show.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, in fairness to Chip and Joanna Gaines on this one, gay marriage and raising children was big in the 1880s. Okay. That was all the rage if you read about it. Post civil war. Oh yeah, there's about a 10 year period there where all of America was doing gay weddings, posters and posters and they were, you know, adopted. It was, it was a big thing. So it was a reality. Reality show.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, so it's Frank on Frank. Good morning to you, Frank. Good morning, Frank Turk. Ah, are you. We're setting this up and then you can be unleashed here in a moment. Okay.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Unleash Frank, you hearing?
>> Tim Wildmon: You hearing me?
>> Frank Turek: I, I think you knocked that out of the park, Tim. I don't think there's any controversy here because. Yeah, that was such a big thing back.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, it was a big things.
Chip and Joanna Gaines are creating a TV special about 1880s
So, so we got this situation, where the Chip and Joanna Gaines are creating a, a, A t, a special TV special back to the frontier setting in the 1880s. And it's going to be there three, three families. So they've announced that one of the three families is a two men?
>> Chris Woodward: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Are they married? well, they didn't get married back then, so they were shacked up.
>> Chris Woodward: They're a couple.
>> Ed Vitagliano: They're. They're married now. They're. This couple's. This. Homosexual couples from Dallas. All right, so the, the controversy over this.
>> Wesley Wildmon: I know why you're confused. I can.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. Because I haven't seen it. Go ahead.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, controversy. So these are three families that are modern and they're forced to live as if they were like survival.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Like surviving on an island, trying to survive in the. At.
>> Tim Wildmon: Interacting with you now. Okay, go ahead.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So the controversy here is that this show was promoted by Magnolia Network.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And the gains. They basically, they said that this show is going to be family. the whole family can sit around and watch this together. Well, they got called out for the fact that one of those families is headed by a homosexual couple. And this is clearly contrary to the biblical teachings on human sexuality, marriage and family. And, now, Chris, do you have the response once it started to heat up, the response from Chip, who, apparently is good at building homes and repairing homes, but not too good on social media because he basically doubled down.
>> Chris Woodward: Right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: With a social media post that was pretty hard to understand.
>> Chris Woodward: Yes. He's apparently good at burning down, burning bridges here.
>> Tim Wildmon: Let's just read what. So he was asked. He was asked by Fox News, I guess, was. It was correct. What.
>> Chris Woodward: He, he posted stuff on social media that they reported.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay. Oh, so he got criticized. And, and he, he. He issued a statement, or it was in a statement. It was a text. Go ahead.
>> Chris Woodward: So he responded on social media on Sunday saying this quote, we should be talking and asking questions, listening, maybe even learning. He told critics too much to ask of modern American Christian culture. Judge first, understand later, slash never. He went on to say that it's a sad Sunday when non believers have never been confronted with hater vitriol until they are introduced to a modern American Christian he added with a heartbreak emoji. And then he went on to, keep saying how we're judging.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's a bunch of garbly gook. Is there anything clear that's what he.
>> Chris Woodward: Said from his post?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, let's, let's let Dr. Frank Turek interpret that gobbledygook whose host of I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist heard Saturday at 9:00am Central Time.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes.
>> Ed Vitagliano: On American Family Radio. And Sunday at 4:00pm Central Time. Frank, are you satisfied with Chip's explanation?
>> Frank Turek: no.
>> Tim Wildmon: I mean, what is he trying to say there?
>> Frank Turek: Well, he's basically trying to say we should not judge, when in fact, that's a judgment. Jesus didn't say don't judge. He said, judge not, lest you be judged by the same standard. You judge others. You'll be judged by that standard. So before you try and take the speck out of your own eye, you hypocrite. Notice. Notice. That's a judgment, you hypocrite. Or before you try and take the speck out of your brother's eye, you hypocrite, take the log out of your own eye first. Then you'll be better able to help your brother. So he's not telling us not to judge. He's telling us how to judge. He's telling us to take the speck out of our brother's eye, right? That involves making a judgment. It would be completely ridiculous to say don't make judgments. Number one, it's a judgment itself. Number two, we'd be dead already if we didn't make judgments.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Judgments.
>> Frank Turek: M And Jesus also said in John 7:24, he said, Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment. So Chip Gaines is telling people we ought not judge. And he's judging people for judging, when in fact all we're doing is we're just evaluating what the scriptures have already said about this issue. He's ignoring it. And he thinks that any opposition to immoral behavior is hate, which is completely ridiculous. It's not hate. You're loving people. When you're opposing behavior that's immoral, you're not hating them.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, Frank, Christians for the last 5, 10, 15 years, have fallen under tremendous pressure to go along with the homosexual movement. And this seems to be the one carve out that Christians who claim to believe the Bible, they will carve out this exception to the clear teachings of scripture, I guarantee. I'm just going to ask you for your opinion. Do you think Chip, and Joanna Gaines would have a couple of white supremacists who are married and they have a family and they're racist? But Chip, that's the real world.
Chip Gaines accused of being a hater for supporting gay marriage
Chip is going to text people who are critical of that and say, oh, you shouldn't judge. We should, you know, listen first to understand. Let's dialogue with these people. They. They wouldn't do that. I don't guess you can feel free to disagree. Well, why the carve out for homosexuality?
>> Frank Turek: Well, because we. We misunderstand what love is. We think love means approval. Love does not mean approval, by the way. Every parent knows this. If you approve of everything your 13 year old wants to do. Are you loving? No. no. You're enabling evil. If you approve of everything your 13 year old wants to do. And the same thing is true with any issue. If you're approving of behavior that we know is sinful, you're not loving. You're an enabler. You're somebody who is actually hating the person because you're not standing for the truth. That would help the person. As Thomas Sowell famously said. He said, when you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.
>> Frank Turek: And what Chip Gaines is doing now, he may be confused about this. I don't know if this is intentional. I don't know if he has. Obviously he hasn't really thought this through. I mean, he's a very likable guy, as is his wife. Likable show and everything. But being likable is no excuse for having bad theology and therefore then enabling people and affirming people to go down a road that's harmful to them and harmful of others. So we're calling them out here and saying, hey, rethink this, please. You don't love people by telling them what they want to hear. You love people by telling them what they need to hear. And by the way, that's what God Jesus crucified. Well, when I told them what they needed to hear, not what they wanted to hear.
>> Wesley Wildmon: This is Wesley here. We've had just a, major culture shift in the last three to five years on the issue of sexuality. We're having a major shift back to a lot more common sense. And it had to do with people being forced to think about it as it relates to the transgender movement, because men and women's sports and then the ripple effect. And so people are starting to think about it. In addition to that, the, the, the phrase of, don't hate or just, just as a way of confronting someone who disagrees with you. That had its heyday when I was growing up, that. Was that the heyday for saying that, that, that would shut down all disagreement argument by saying you're, what you're doing is hateful. Well, after so many years of hearing that, we've come full circle to the point where my generation now and others, pretty much the whole atmosphere of America can, can finally reach a point where we're like, okay, well, we may disagree, but I'm not buying this anymore that I'm having to defend myself as a hater or not a Hater.
>> Tim Wildmon: Just.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Could you say so. So now that we're past all of that, I feel like. I feel like I'm just shocked that he's reverting back to that old.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Old meaning ten years ago of being accused of being a hater just because he doesn't have two gay people, a gay couple on his TV show. Like, I don't understand. I. I feel like we're going back in time lapse. We should be way past this, should we not?
>> Frank Turek: Well, yeah, I think you're right, Wesley. It's a good insight that, you know, five years ago, that is the way people tended to think. But that mind virus hasn't completely been eradicated. People still think that if you oppose someone's sexual behavior, somehow you're hating them. It's just bizarre.
>> Wesley Wildmon: It is really about it.
>> Tim Wildmon: No. Yes. Well, it makes you. It's supposed to Shut down the argument. End of argument. You're a hater. Yeah.
>> Frank Turek: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Exactly. In an argument. Not going to talk about this anymore because you're a hater.
Chip Gaines response to backlash after Magnolia Network reality show feature same sex man
all right, so just to reset real quick, M. You know, this pains a lot of people who are fans of theirs.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah. There was the Christian version of being Bud Lighted, because that's what's about to happen.
>> Tim Wildmon: Bud lights. Well, here's what's. Here's what's, mystifying. well, I don't know. Chip and Joanna games obviously, are okay with two men marrying. Okay, let's just say it like it is.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And it's not just marrying. Now, they got their kids that they have, these two, Dallas dads. They, they. They have, I think, two kids, two.
>> Tim Wildmon: Boys and a couple.
>> Ed Vitagliano: This gay. This homosexual couple. And I'm looking at a story on the Federalist about this. It says that this couple bought their sons via purchased eggs and rented wombs, because obviously two men cannot have children. So they went through the ivf, the in vitro fertilization process, and basically rented two women's wombs so that these, implanted embryos, fertilized embryos, could then come to full gestation.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So that adds to the unnaturalness of this with these two men.
>> Tim Wildmon: okay, so, again, but the. I guess the most quote, disappointing this is what Reverend, Frank Franklin Graham, said about this situation is that this is the Magnolia Network.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Chip gained response to backlash after Magnolia Network reality show feature Same Sex Man. So is this Magnolia Network, or is this hbo?
>> Chris Woodward: Okay. HBO is carrying it. It's a Magnolia Network product.
>> Tim Wildmon: I got you.
>> Chris Woodward: They. They're so hand in hand.
>> Tim Wildmon: So the point is that Chip and Joanna Gaines would have had control over this.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Yes, 100%.
>> Tim Wildmon: This isn't an outside, This isn't like an HGTV where they just are employees of. And they must do what they're told or lose their jobs. This is them initiating this homosexual,
>> Ed Vitagliano: They thought this was a good idea.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah. And what's another thing that's problematic here is that the world we live in of cancel culture, for a Christian to be able to own its own network, that should be the prime goal for a lot of people. Because then you should be immune to.
>> Tim Wildmon: Being able to be forced to do something.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Because I do. We, work in a Christian environment.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Wesley Wildmon: But I've put myself the best I can and another person shoes who's making a living for their family, and they're being manipulated to do a certain, to not say a certain thing in order to keep their job so they can provide out in the public workforce.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Ed Vitagliano: It's a secular.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Because Secular company. Okay. However, this is not even. There's no. This is not a debate. Should not even be a debate. Like, for example, the Benham brothers. Okay.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Wesley Wildmon: They chose. They said we. They could have easily not said anything.
>> Tim Wildmon: And.
>> Wesley Wildmon: And then, okay, keep your job, make a lot of money. But they say, you know what? We're not going to pull down a, tweet about God's definition of marriage. We're not going to pull it down. And if we get fired, we get fired.
>> Tim Wildmon: And then they got fired. GTV fired them.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Right. But on the other hand, if they had not. I don't know if I would have just canceled them all together. You know, if they would have pulled it down, you know, I would have been disappointed. But I don't know if I'd. But this is not even the case. This is a Christian owning their own network.
>> Ed Vitagliano: That's a good.
>> Wesley Wildmon: I mean, think about that for a second.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, again, I didn't like his response. Chip Gaines responses. If you don't agree with me, you're a hater. Am I reading?
>> Frank Turek: I hate that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: Anyway, hey, listen, you know what? This is what Lauren Daigle, the, singer did. Yes. Three years ago. the Christian. Very popular Christian singer. She was asked about, a gay marriage. A homosexuality. And she said, I don't know.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I don't think.
>> Tim Wildmon: I'm not God. I don't know.
Tim Ferriss: Every same sex couple denies their child a mother
If somebody knows, let me know.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: And I'm going like, it's in the Bible. That's so you haven't read Romans 1.
>> Ed Vitagliano: She wouldn't say that about any other issue.
>> Tim Wildmon: No. Listen, here's what happens with these folks and I understand there's pressure. Sure. Okay. In the business world, you get involved in the entertainment industry, even in the Christian entertainment industry, you must bow the knee to the LGBTQ or you're not going anywhere. for a lot of them.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right?
>> Tim Wildmon: For a lot of them. And so I think, and also they are, they are around people who are all the, in the entertainment, entertainment industry. Almost all of them are pro LGBTQ Pride and all this. And so if you dare say no, I don't agree with that, well, you're going to be in trouble with that crowd. You know what I'm saying?
>> Wesley Wildmon: And I've watched clips of this before and they have normalized in the, TV series, in the previews. They've normalized homosexual marriage.
>> Tim Wildmon: What they're doing for this show.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Yes, the two guys are very, they're always laughing, they're always getting very happy. I mean, they're normalizing that on their network.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, we got, we do have Frank on, Frank, you, have any other things you want to add?
>> Frank Turek: Well, I was going to add the fact that regardless of this situation here, every same sex couple denies their child either a mother or a father.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Frank Turek: And mothers and fathers are different, as we all know, but many deny. So this so called couple denying their child a mother by what they're doing. I mean, you can leave aside the whole marriage issue. marriage is obviously between a man and a woman. Civilization depends on that. But the whole idea that they're adopting, these boys and neglecting whether you said what it was. In vitro ed. Something like that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, I'm guessing, according to this article in the Federalist, that it says they bought their sons via purchased eggs and rented wombs. That it would have to be unless they adopted from somebody else. but this, rented wombs, that just sounds so weird.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, what is that?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, it's, it's, it's how you, with an in vitro fertilizer. Not always. Sometimes within vitro fertilization, a couple male, female, you know, will you implant the fertilized egg into the woman? The, the wife, the mother.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I'm getting m. Lost.
>> Tim Wildmon: I know what it means. I was just being sarcastic.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, all right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, you don't need. I don't need that. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate it.
>> Frank Turek: you don't need a birds and a beast.
>> Tim Wildmon: I asked your question and you answered it. But I was being rhetorical.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Hey, we need to have Frank back sometime.
>> Tim Wildmon: He's gonna stay right now.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, okay.
>> Tim Wildmon: All right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Because, we have a very important question.
>> Tim Wildmon: Are you gonna stay with us after the break?
>> Frank Turek: I'm hanging with you guys because if.
>> Tim Wildmon: You can't, you're a hater.
>> Frank Turek: That's right, I'm a hater.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, If I don't agree with you, stay with us then. You're a hater, man.
>> Frank Turek: Let's just make it a rule. Anybody agrees with Tim is a hater.
>> Tim Wildmon: Hater.
>> Wesley Wildmon: There you go.
>> Tim Wildmon: Sad. Sad at all this hate in the Christian world.
>> Ed Vitagliano: It's everywhere.
>> Tim Wildmon: It's everywhere.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Oozing.
>> Tim Wildmon: We'll be back momentarily with more of today's issues here on AFR. Stay with us.
Over 60% of abortions happen through the abortion pill
>> Ed Vitagliano: This June 24th marks three years since Roe versus Wade was overturned. But here's what you may not know. Abortion numbers have surged to a 10 year high. The battleground has shifted from the courtroom to our homes. Today, over 60% of abortions happen through the abortion pill. Taken in silence, often alone, PreBorn Network clinics are standing in the gap, meeting women in their most desperate hour. And here's what they're Young mothers, terrified and misled, are delivering their babies, tiny, perfectly formed, onto bathroom floors. These precious babies, once called just tissue, now lie lifeless. 11% of these women who take the abortion pill will suffer seriously health complications. Countless others carry emotional scars for a lifetime. When you give to preborn, you're not just saving a baby, you're saving a mother too. You're giving her hope, financial support and the truth. PreBorn has already rescued over 350,000 babies. But there are so many more who need our help. Your tax deductible gift makes this mission possible. To donate now, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250, baby. Or go to preborn.com afr that's preborn.com afr.
>> Tim Wildmon: This is today's issues.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Email your comments to commentsfr.net Past broadcasts.
>> Chris Woodward: Of today's Issues are available for listening.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And viewing in the [email protected] now back.
Frank Turi says the pyramids were already established long before the Hebrews
>> Tim Wildmon: To more of today's issues. Hey, welcome back everybody, to Today's Issues on the American Family Radio Network. Tim, Ed, Wesley and Chris and, Dr. Frank Turi joins us from the, Tar Heel State. and, all right, Frank, you had a recent podcast about the pyramids in Egypt.
>> Frank Turek: Well, we were just in Egypt.
>> Tim Wildmon: Talk about that.
>> Frank Turek: Well, a lot of people, well, not a lot, but there are several people that think, well, maybe the Hebrews, the Hebrew slaves built the pyramids? No, the Hebrews weren't there at the time. The pyramids were built at least a thousand years, many of them anyway, prior.
>> Tim Wildmon: To the Hebrews being there, by aliens. But go ahead.
>> Frank Turek: That's right. We think that, the exodus, according to the Bible, took place in 14. 1446 BC the pyramids were already established long before then. and we, think that the conquest began in 1406 at Jericho. And the archaeological evidence seems to show that the walls of Jericho did oddly, fall straight down and out, unlike any other city in the world. Normally when you overcome a city, you batter the walls inward. At Jericho, the only place they've ever found this was the walls just fell down and out. And so the Israelites just, just walked right up into the city and took it. And that's what the, that's what the archaeology shows.
>> Tim Wildmon: So, so, so, so, so what about, Okay, what about the pyramids, though? So you're saying the Egyptians built the pyramids?
>> Frank Turek: How many Egyptians built them? Or, or maybe they had other slaves building them. But, it wasn't the Hebrews. The Hebrews weren't there at that point.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, but the, the. You're saying the pyramids were already there when the Hebrews were there?
>> Frank Turek: Yeah, absolutely.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Frank Turek: In fact, the.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Go ahead.
>> Frank Turek: The, the oldest pyramids go back almost to 3000 BC like 2800 BC. Wow. And we think maybe, we think maybe, Joseph got there somewhere between 1800 B.C. that's a thousand years later.
>> Tim Wildmon: And I got you.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Somewhere in there, I saw there's some guy, I forget his name, he's some Greek guy. That's. That I, think is a host some show. I don't watch these things because they're silly. But he's always talking about how aliens built everything. Like the pyramids.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And I saw this funny, this funny meme someone posted, and it's this guy, he's got his hair sticking out. I forget the guy's name, but he says, well, if aliens aren't real, how did they build everything? Which is just kind of circular reasoning. But, because they were.
There have been recent claims about massive structures beneath the Egyptian pyramids
The reason I thought this would be good to talk to you about, Frank, is, there are there been some recent claims about massive structures beneath the Egyptian pyramids. And, there's like a group of Italian researchers where. Which, honestly, that's probably. That's problematic.
>> Frank Turek: It means it's a pizza oven.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Italian research, that is what's below. But they're claiming to have discovered giant structures beneath, one of the pyramids. and so, you know, when I saw Italian researchers, I thought m, this probably isn't going to end well. But.
>> Tim Wildmon: I got to defend the Italian researchers right here. I don't care if they were great at making pizza, doesn't mean they can't be great at exploring pyramids.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well that is true.
>> Tim Wildmon: You can eat.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I'm a self loathing.
>> Tim Wildmon: You can walk and drink and eat crust at the same time. so, this was. But the the pyramids, how many pyramids are there, by the way?
>> Ed Vitagliano: There's hundreds.
>> Frank Turek: Yeah, well there's, there's, I can't remember the exact number. Somewhere between 100 and 200 in, in Egypt. You know, not all of them are the, you know, the famous ones are the three Giza pyramids there. But there are other pyramids around the country.
>> Tim Wildmon: was it a part of the religion of the Egyptians?
>> Frank Turek: Well, they were tombs for pharaohs. Yeah, that's what the pyramids were because they thought that they had to establish what the pharaoh needed to have in the afterlife. And they also wanted to hide his body and all of the riches that they put in the tomb because the pharaoh supposedly would take these riches into the afterlife. and here's an interesting biblical connection. You know how the scriptures talk about God hardening Pharaoh's heart and a lot of people have consternation with that. Well why is he blaming Pharaoh then? Because, you know, Pharaoh didn't have free will. Then he just hardened his heart and he used him as he wanted to use them. Well, first of all, if you read Exodus, you see, Pharaoh hardened his heart first and then God completed the process. Much like Romans 1 says, if you turn away from God, suppress the truth, he's going to give you up to a depraved mind and give you up to a, depravity, what you want to do ultimately. But I digress. The main point here is that this hardening of the heart shows that Moses knew the Egyptian culture. Why? Because in the afterlife, a pharaoh's heart was put on a scale against a feather. And if the heart or if the feather outweighed the heart, meaning that the pharaoh was a good pharaoh, he had a light heart, then he would be admitted to the afterlife. But if the heart outweighed the feather, Then his heart was devoured by a demon goddess known as the Ammit. And you see this in the Egyptian Book of the Dead and on some, some tomb walls. It's this beast that is part crocodile, part hippo and part lion. The Three most feared animals of the Nile. That demon goddess known as Ammit would consume the pharaoh's heart. If he had a hard heart, a heavy heart, because it meant he was a bad guy and he wouldn't make it to the afterlife. So when Moses is saying that Pharaoh has a hard heart, he's essentially saying that Pharaoh is a bad guy. And by his own theology, he's not going to make it in the afterlife. And so you see. And by the way, all the plagues, the 10 plagues are all slams on Egyptian gods. They're not random catastrophes. They are slamming the Egyptian gods. You know, they worship the Nile, so he turns the Nile to blood. They worship the sun. He blots out the sun. They worship the pharaoh himself. So what does he do? He kills the firstborn. There's no heir to the supposed divine pharaoh. These are all slams on the Egyptian gods. And so when you read the book of Exodus, you're reading somebody who knew what the culture and the theology of that area was at that time.
>> Wesley Wildmon: I think dad was really wanting to get to the aliens. Well, I can see his face right here.
>> Tim Wildmon: I didn't mind listening to all that. That was good stuff right there by Frank.
>> Ed Vitagliano: But by the way, when I said hundreds, there are actually around the world.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: There are thousands of pyramids. But M. Frank's right about the Egyptian pyramids. There's 118, 135. But there are thousands there. There are, you know, there are pyramids which you might call ziggurats, in, you know, what we consider the new world. And anyway, it's just fascinating that, you know, the.
>> Tim Wildmon: It's fascinating that they would have built, pyramids in other parts of the world, not knowing.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: About the Egyptians.
>> Tim Wildmon: The Egyptians. But unless I gotta tell you, had HGTV been around back then with the pyramids.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: You know what I'm saying? They'd had their own show about the pyramids for sale. You know, saying and showing people around.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Tim Wildmon: so. And how, Well, they can. You know what I'm saying? Where you can store your treasures.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Frank Turek: You think they'd fix up one of those pyramids for a gay couple?
>> Tim Wildmon: Fixed. Apparently that was just wrong, Frank. We had moved on and you brought it back up.
Dr. Frank Turek's radio show airs weekends on American Family Radio
All right, Frank, what's coming up on your show this weekend? Or do you know yet?
>> Frank Turek: Well, we're gonna probably have Jonathan Isaac on. I don't know if you who Jonathan Isaac is. He is a forward for the Orlando Magic, a Christian who stood when Everybody else knelt during the George Floyd stuff.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes.
>> Frank Turek: And, we're going to have him on because partially, he came to faith through apologetics. And, he stands for the truth in a difficult place to stand for the truth, the NBA. by the way, I also want to mention we are going back to Egypt and Israel in October. And so if people go to our website, crossexamine.org and click on events, they'll see that we're going to Jordan, Israel and Egypt. This October is going to be a phenomenal trip. We're going to have the best guides, go to the best places. We'll see some of the pyramids, of course. We'll also see all the big sites in Israel and even Jordan. We'll visit Petra and that whole area. And we'll see if the Holy Grail is there. We'll see if, Harrison Ford is still trying to find it.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So you want to go back to Egypt, huh?
>> Frank Turek: Huh? Oh, I loved Egypt.
>> Tim Wildmon: I like the way you did that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Those leeks and those onions. You miss those, don't you?
>> Frank Turek: That's right. I miss them.
>> Chris Woodward: That verse has always boggled my mind. Like, whoever craves an onion, like, you have to be really whiny to be like, man, I could go for an onion.
>> Frank Turek: Hey, my wife craves onion rings.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Close, right?
>> Chris Woodward: Anytime you deep fry.
>> Ed Vitagliano: That's understandable.
>> Frank Turek: That's true.
>> Tim Wildmon: So long, Frank. Talk to you next time.
>> Frank Turek: Hey, God bless you guys. Thanks.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, you too. That's Frank. Frank, Dr. Frank Turek from the Cross Examined radio show.
>> Ed Vitagliano: He does a great job, by the way. Sometimes at lunch, since there's no hockey, I can't watch hockey highlights. I'll watch some of Frank's, exchanges with college, kids. And he does a great job.
>> Chris Woodward: You know, I never. He talks about how the plagues were, Basically, God's going. God going after the. The false gods. Little G. I'd never thought about that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I just thought that was Exodus 12. Maybe verse 12, maybe Exodus 12:12, where it says that God judged not only the people and the animals of Egypt, but it says he judged the gods of Egypt. And. And it's. And all of those, like frogs, all of those had counterparts in the pantheon. That's a Greek word. But the pantheon of Egyptian, gods. And it's, No, it is. It's very fascinating.
>> Tim Wildmon: So Frank's radio show is weekends. On the weekends, yes.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Saturday at 9:00am Central Time, Sunday at 4:00pm Central on AM right here?
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes, right here on this radio station. Dr. Frank Turek's radio show. It's excellent. And you want to be sure to join him each weekend. When does it air again?
>> Ed Vitagliano: It airs Saturday, at 9:00am Central, and then Sunday at 4:00pm Central time right here on American Family Radio. And folks, if you're interested in apologetics, Frank is awesome at, that ministry. You can go to afr.net and there's a little menu at the top that says podcasts. And you can click on that and then scroll down to find, I, don't have enough faith to be an atheist. You can listen to all kinds of shows that are still there from past programs of Frank's, and you can get yourself up to speed on a lot of these kinds of issues and questions, answers to questions that maybe your unsaved family and friends might ask. It's a. It's a great way to kind of get your feet wet on Apollo.
So to review, the heart versus feather thing. The heart weighs more than a feather
>> Tim Wildmon: So to review, the, heart versus feather thing. What was that? What was it? Where we ever come out on that one?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah, I was.
>> Tim Wildmon: I can tell you Chris was paying attention. Chris.
>> Chris Woodward: They put a. They put a feather on one end of the scale, and they put the. The heart on the other. And if the heart was lighter than the feather, that mean he had a good heart.
>> Tim Wildmon: But m. Do you have, like, a referee? Is there, like, somebody who's like, well, you know what I'm saying, Wearing a.
>> Chris Woodward: Striped shirt, saying, all right, yeah, I wasn't there.
>> Tim Wildmon: Put it on there because I'm ready to. Ready to make a ruling.
>> Chris Woodward: I wasn't there. And I only have a ba. In communication. But I'll tell you this. The heart weighs more than a feather, so odds are you're getting devoured by a demon God.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. That's disappointing. You think, you know, you go to.
>> Ed Vitagliano: All that trouble, and this demon God, I met. What. I forget what it. What it was. The name of this woman. Woman Demon God.
>> Tim Wildmon: Woman Demon God. Not what. Just one. You wanted to make that clear.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I want. I want to make that clear.
>> Wesley Wildmon: You don't want that.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I just wanted that the pharaoh at his last act on earth.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Be judged by a woman.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay, yeah, well, and.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And. And she apparently had the, something to do with crocodile, hippo, and a lion.
>> Chris Woodward: She was some sort of hybrid.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Imagine the politics that could get involved in that with, like, No. A bigger feather.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Where the. Where's the ostrich feather?
>> Chris Woodward: I just can't imagine. Imagine when they first. First built the first pyramid, like, they were all standing out there, and then he, like, the foreman's explaining to them. All right, I want to build a big triangle. And somebody got some guy goes, what is that?
>> Tim Wildmon: I mean, like, you know, right, I know. But yeah, the Egyptians, give them. Course, you can do a lot when you got thousands of slaves. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you can, you can be creative and if it doesn't work, you just start over. He just, yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: So we got time.
>> Tim Wildmon: We got time and we just. All right, so, you're listening to today's issues on the American Family Radio Network. Tim, Ed Wesley and Chris. Chris, next story.
House committee to hold hearing on universities' handling of on campus antisemitism
>> Chris Woodward: well, speaking of Egypt, they obviously had an issue thousands of years ago with anti Semitism. And unfortunately, in the year of our Lord 2025, anti Semitism is still an issue even in these United States of America. Even though President Trump is still in office, or back in office, anti Semitism is still a problem. And I bring this up because on Capitol Hill today, leaders from various universities, UC Berkeley, Georgetown University, City Universities of New York, you name it, they're all testifying before a House committee on their handling of on campus antisemitism. Today's hearing is focusing on faculty funding and ideology. And I have a bit of audio here from a UC Berkeley graduate by the name of Danielle Sobkin who says anti Semitism on campus is Nothing new.
>> Frank Turek: Clip 5 Long Jewish students at UC Berkeley are being treated as second class.
>> Tim Wildmon: Citizens and we finally have an ally.
>> Frank Turek: In the White House, President Trump, that is taking these institutions to their accountability. It's the environment that's been fostered for decades. It's nothing new. Jewish students have been treated as second class citizens for decades, not only at, UC Berkeley, but I across the country. And October 7th was a breaking point. But it's not new and it's been rooted in the ideology, the way that we treat anti Semitism and the way that we foster it amongst everything that we do. But it's not just a Jewish problem, it's an American problem because this hate goes against everything our country stands for.
>> Chris Woodward: Now she mentioned it's not just a Jewish problem, it's an American problem. I can tell you from a lot of the First Amendment, religious freedom attorneys and law firms that we talk to, they've often said that what people are doing to Jews, they will have no problem doing to Christians because in the world's eyes, we're the same. So I think, you know, Christians should be aware of and care about these matters even though they're Jewish people.
>> Ed Vitagliano: No, I absolutely agree this because as Tim always points out, this is a spiritual thing.
>> Tim Wildmon: I Ah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Mean, it does have its roots in this world in certain ideologies, one of which is radicalized Islamic, but cultural Marxism as well. But this is a spiritual attack, and the. The Judeo Christian worldview is the target. So Jews will be targeted, and Christians will be targeted as well. By the way, when I say Judeo Christian, I. What I'm talking about is. Excuse me, is the, the political thought forms that, came from Christianity, which came from the Jewish faith. We talk about Old Testament ideas, New Testament ideas. So, I'm not. I'm not equating Judaism and Christianity as routes of salvation. I just want to make that clear.
>> Tim Wildmon: Well, listen, there are stereotypes in the world that have existed forever having to do with all kinds of people. Ed referenced the stereotype about, Italian engineering researchers. Researchers, yeah. Which, you know, was funny. Coming from an Italian. Yes, coming from an Italian.
>> Ed Vitagliano: But. But that is true. They. They. Italians have always been thought of as being.
>> Tim Wildmon: They're food people, though the contributions that the Italian people have made to the world of food are probably nobody else.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And, not just art and architecture.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: I mean.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right. But engineering, not so much. Right. Would you say, that tower still leaning? Right, Right. Hey. Still brings in the tourists.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, you got to have. So you got some engineering.
>> Tim Wildmon: So here's my.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Here's my.
>> Tim Wildmon: Here's my. To make Coliseum just respond to this. Okay.
There's a lot of prejudice against Jews because they're business people
>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay.
>> Tim Wildmon: The, some of the anti Semitism out there. By that we mean hate specifically for Jewish people. Disdain for Jewish people because they're Jews is because. Okay, so the Jews. The Jewish people, are only a tiny percentage of the world's population. I don't know. In America, I think they're 1% or.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, I think 2.2 points of Americans.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, but that's. Of Americans. But, they are, by, their numbers, extraordinarily intelligent. Yeah, extraordinarily, innovative. Innovative business savvy. you know, one of the old thing. The old, clicks, like stereotypes was the Jewish bankers. Right, okay. That control the world's money. Am I right?
>> Ed Vitagliano: That was. That was a. An insult, a stereotype that was meant m. To be insulting.
>> Tim Wildmon: But the Jewish people, by, you know, as a group, know how to, make money and do business on a level that's almost unparalleled. This is my interpretation here and what I've seen so that there's a lot of jealousy and animus and animosity towards the Jewish people because they're great business people, for the Most, for the most part. And so they do have an inordinate influence over you know, business for their numbers I'm talking about.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And by the way I looked it up, they are the, the global Jewish population constitutes approximately.2% of the world's population.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. So that's incredible.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Worldwide.
>> Tim Wildmon: So do you. So, so now a lot of people turn that around against the Jews and say see their shysters or they control they control the banks and, and, and, and, and the world commerce and they keep people oppressed. I mean these are, this is what Hitler did, right?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Then he used these arguments, he says.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And he, and he claimed that the communist movement was founded by Jews because Karl Marx was Jewish.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And ah. And the Nazis hated the communists because the Nazis were fascists that focused on nationalism. Communists in my opinion are also fascists, but they want a worldwide fascism. And by that I mean the, the superiority of the state over everything else. And that's why the communists and the, and the Nazis fought is because the Nazis hated the communists because they didn't care about Germany first. They cared about the worldwide international communist movement.
>> Tim Wildmon: But, but Hitler said that the Jews caused the problems post World War I.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: And for the Germans that's really, that's why he was able to convince them to, to put them in concentration camps.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. If you think the Jews are in charge of the international economy.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And Germany is suffering, which it did tremendously economically between the two world wars. If, if the economy's lousy and Germans are getting hammered and Jews are in charge of the worldwide economy and Jews are the villains.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right. And that's what Hitler used to motivate the Nazi movement. Am I right?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Okay.
>> Wesley Wildmon: I was going to add in the, in 1948 when that's when Israel was become, did become a country. Become a country again.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah.
>> Wesley Wildmon: They were also, the Jews were then buying up a lot of Palestinian properties that they were willing to sell. And then once, once the Jews got a hold of it after the Palestine's having it for decades, they begin to develop it and grow crop and make it into a Profitable.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes.
>> Wesley Wildmon: And then all of a sudden the Palestine's wanted it back. Palestinians, Palestinians wanted it back. To your point, they can take something that doesn't look like much and yeah, they're very, very.
>> Tim Wildmon: The Jews are very, What do you call it?
>> Wesley Wildmon: Innovative.
>> Tim Wildmon: Innovative. And very smart people as a whole. So anyway, how do we get here?
Tim: Your Boston accent is not as pronounced as some who
>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, we were talking Italian researchers.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yes. We were talking about anti Semitism in the world, why it exists.
>> Wesley Wildmon: Sure.
>> Tim Wildmon: And, maybe even outside of the spiritual dynamic, which the Bible talks about, a lot of the Jews are hated because they are God's chosen people. And so the devil, the enemy of God, wants to wipe them off the face of the earth for that reason. Am I right?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: Can I get an amen?
>> Ed Vitagliano: Amen.
>> Tim Wildmon: Amen. Can I, You know what they say in some country churches, in addition to amen?
>> Ed Vitagliano: What's that?
>> Tim Wildmon: Come on.
>> Ed Vitagliano: M. Come on.
>> Tim Wildmon: You heard that, hadn't you, Brent? Come on.
>> Chris Woodward: I've heard it before.
>> Tim Wildmon: You've heard it before?
>> Chris Woodward: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Come on. There's a guy in the back, he says, come on.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Come on.
>> Tim Wildmon: Come on. What are you gonna say?
>> Wesley Wildmon: That's. I was gonna say that's a better, impersonation, though. yours was.
>> Tim Wildmon: He's from Boston. He was better than mine was. Wow. Okay, then.
>> Ed Vitagliano: In my defense, Tim, I've lived here since 1980.
>> Tim Wildmon: That's true. That's true.
>> Ed Vitagliano: You're catching up. I'm catching.
>> Tim Wildmon: You're catching up. Your Boston accent is not, as pronounced maybe, as some who.
>> Ed Vitagliano: It's. It's. It's. It's not. I can still park the car.
>> Tim Wildmon: Right.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And I did in Nashville, New Hampshire. But, you can still go back. That's how you. Normie. It's a, little fact. It's, Italians.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. Are we sitting at the bar? Cheers. Now, what we're doing here.
>> Chris Woodward: Yeah. instead of Norman's.
>> Tim Wildmon: Ed, wasn't that a Boston setting?
>> Ed Vitagliano: It was.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. That's what I thought.
>> Chris Woodward: That's where everybody knows your name.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Steve Paisley: John MacArthur was a well-respected Bible teacher
All right, so listen, after the break, Steve Paisley Jordan will be in the studio. We have not mentioned this, but we'll talk about it after the news. And that is the passing of Dr. John MacArthur, the, well renowned Bible teacher. And he had a very popular radio program for many years.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Written some excellent books.
>> Tim Wildmon: Yeah. And, had a huge, huge following. Did John McCarthy and.
>> Ed Vitagliano: And, John MacArthur was. And I know we're getting to the break here, but, he was one of those people that he. He was a Calvinist, reformed, and there are m. Armenians and they clash. Okay. But a lot of his writings and his books were so solid, anybody from any background would enjoy and get, you know.
>> Tim Wildmon: You know, I've kind of learned over the years Wesley and Ed and Chris.
>> Ed Vitagliano: What's that?
>> Tim Wildmon: as long as the. As long as the teacher or pastor is solid on their reverence for the Bible and they believe in the. In the inerrancy of Scripture. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
>> Ed Vitagliano: You can learn from them.
>> Tim Wildmon: I can learn from them, even if I disagree on something.
>> Wesley Wildmon: On their eschatology. Something perip.
>> Tim Wildmon: Something. Yeah, yeah, but, so I'm. What I'm saying is I wasn't raised a Five point Calvinist.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.
>> Tim Wildmon: But I could learn a lot from somebody like John MacArthur, who would be described as a.
>> Ed Vitagliano: Yes.
>> Tim Wildmon: Five point Calvis. I think I'm 1.5. We'll be back in a minute. The views and opinions expressed in this.
>> Frank Turek: Broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
