Alex McFarland: Welcome to Exploring the Word

>> Alex McFarland: The Bible, it's the word of God.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Sharper than any two edged sword.

>> Alex McFarland: this sacred book is living and.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Active and contains all that's needed for life and godliness.

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome to Exploring the Word. Merry Christmas. Welcome to a very special edition of Exploring the word. Alex McFarland here. And we are in the Old Testament book of Isaiah and we're going to wrap up Isaiah 28 and get into Isaiah 29. But I want to welcome everybody listening also, as we always do. We will get to questions later on in the show. So I'll go ahead and give that number. You might want to write it down because if you have a Bible question, we will do our best to give you a factual biblical answer. And the number later on in the show is 888-589-8840. And I want you to meet a very special friend. Bert is traveling for Christmas. our beloved Bert Harper is traveling today. But with us today and tomorrow is a very special colleague that I've known for quite a number of years. His name is Dylan Burroughs. And you probably, if you have many Christian books or you read a lot of Christian articles, you've read Dylan's work before. He is a longtime friend, did a lot of work with people like the John Ankerberg show over the years and he's among his degrees are from Dallas Seminary. Just a very special friend of Angie and me and a mighty man of the Word. And he's with us today and tomorrow. Dylan Burroughs, thank you for being with us on Exploring the Word.

>> Alex McFarland: Oh, thank you Alex for having me. It's a pleasure to be with you as we feast on God's Word and share some from the book of Isaiah today. I'm very thankful to have this opportunity.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, indeed, indeed.

Tell us about yourself and your family and your journey with Jesus

And before we get into the end of Isaiah 28, the beginning of 29, just briefly tell the folks about yourself and you and your family and the journey that, that you're on with Jesus.

>> Alex McFarland: Sure. Well, my background, started in small town Indiana where I grew up and attended Indiana State University, home of Larry Bird. And I became very involved in campus ministry during that time and the call to ministry including campus, crusade now called crew and my future wife. Then Deborah and I started dating during that time and had some amazing opportunities in ministry that led us to Dallas, Texas. You mentioned Dallas Theological Seminary. It's the place where I trained and we lived in Texas for a few years and had two of our three kids there before moving to Chattanooga, Tennessee where I've lived for many years. we served with Dr. John Ankerberg with his apologetics and worldview ministry as a writer and editor, and have since gone on to do other writing and been thrilled to also partner part time with Liberty University, where I teach adjunct courses in theology and religion there. But you and I have met many times along the way and doing apologetics outreach and, and writing and speaking events.

Dylan: Isaiah 28 and 29 are some of the most powerful Bible passages

And just thrilled to talk a little bit about this time of season, this Christmas time of year, where we talk about some of the things from Isaiah like the virgin birth, and then talk about the hard parts like Isaiah 28 and 29, that we'll get into today and what that means for us today. A lot of people, get confused by these passages, but they're some of the most powerful parts of the Bible. Let me say this, Alex, that Isaiah, was kind of like the Revelation for the Jewish people in the first century. They were intrigued by what is said about the future. They had lots of ideas. They didn't quite understand it, but it was fascinating to the people then. And as we read it today, I think you'll be fascinated as well as we look at what it says about the future, some of which has been fulfilled and some of which is yet to come.

>> Alex McFarland: Indeed. You know, we were in Isaiah 28 a couple of days ago, and, it was kind of hard to read, some of these words. They're just unthinkable that the ministers, of Ephraim, the priests, were drunkards. And there's judgment on this. But there is, as Isaiah 28 concludes, there is this remnant. And it seems like even though there were pervasive times of backsliding and falling away, and even idolatry. Chapter 28, says that God has, has laid a precious cornerstone. And really this is reference to Jesus in like Romans 9, 33 and 1 Peter 2, 6. Let me read the concluding verses of Isaiah 28 and we'll segue into 29. It says, Give ye ear and hear my voice. Hearken, or listen and hear my speech. Does not the plowman plow all day to sow? Does he not open and break the clods of ground when he hath made plain the face thereof? Does he not cast abroad the the fitches, or scatter the cumin? This is talking about sowing seed and cast in the principal wheat, and the appointed barley and the rye in their place? For his God doth instruct him to discretion and teach him. Now, the bottom line, the seed of the word of God is Not sown in vain, but the faithful man of God, has to do God's work, God's way. They can't be like the drunkards of Ephraim. And it's talking about seed bread. Corn is bruised, verse 28, because he will not ever be threshing it, nor break it with the wheel of his cart, nor bruise it with his horsemen. This also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel and excellent in working. You know, Dylan, very often agricultural illustrations are used in God's word. Seed that bears a harvest bread ground. That's like the human heart to be tilled, and made ready. and then the workman, the husbandman, the vine dresser, you know, there's this imagery here of a field that, human will might lead people into sin. And sin has repercussions like falling into the hands of the Assyrians. But God's will, God's word will go to its appointed, purpose. And here is the thing in verse 29, that the wisdom and the counsel of God are wonderful. And as they were told to do then, so today we must listen to God. Verse 23, as we'll conclude chapter 28. Give ear and hear my voice. Hearken and hear my speech, Dylan. The, Holy Spirit of God is still calling people to hearken and listen and follow God. The Holy Spirit is still making that call, isn't he?

>> Alex McFarland: Of course. And so many times you hear people say, I wish I knew what God wanted me to do with my life. Well, one way you can know for certain is to read the Bible. Because God has revealed many things in Scripture very clearly for us. We don't have to guess. We don't have to wait for a text message from God. It's right there for us. It talks about the council, the and excellence and guidance that God gives us. many of the details that we have in daily life may not be answered in Scripture, but the main issues of the day, are answered clearly then, just for our time now, so we can look at it with confidence. And like we see here, there are times of judgment that are given to those who disobey God. But it always ends with a message of hope. And we can look forward to those times when we stand faithfully on God's word, that we may not be blessed financially or even physically or in other ways in this life, but God has a promised future hope for those who follow him.

Dylan Wildman: The book of Isaiah is very, very important

>> Alex McFarland: Well, chapter 29 is fascinating because in chapter 29, God addresses Jerusalem as Ariel a r. I e l, a lion of God. but it says in chapter 29, Ah, that Ariel, the city where David dwelt add ye year to year, let them kill sacrifices, and yet I will distress Ariel. And that means, you know, God's lion. And it can mean hearth or altar. And in so many ways, Jerusalem is like the altar of the whole earth. But there's going to be distress upon the city for their unfaithfulness. And nations are going to fight against Jerusalem. Their vision is at least temporarily blinded, so they don't understand. And of course there's going to be a very familiar quote. I'm jumping ahead and Dylan, we can go back. But in Isaiah 29:13 says, Wherefore the Lord said, for as much as these people draw near to me with their mouth and with their lips, they do honor me, but their hearts are far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men. And, you know, Jesus cites this in Matthew, chapter 15. And by the way, Dylan, let's camp out on this a little bit. The book of Isaiah is very, very important. And you mentioned in that first few, moments about how it's almost kind of like the Book of Revelation of the Old Testament. But Jesus quoted Isaiah heavily during his earthly ministry, didn't he?

>> Alex McFarland: Yes, he did. And it's interesting to me that the Gospel of Matthew, which is the one that probably quotes the Old Testament more than any of the four gospels, quotes Isaiah more than any other prophet. And one interesting fact about the Dead Sea Scrolls, for those familiar with it, a collection of over 200 biblical scrolls found during the middle of the last century. from the early time period around when the NewSong Testament was written, the copy or the scrolls that were found the most of any one book were from Isaiah. There were several copies of Isaiah. It was fascinating to the people then, during the time of Jesus, quoted frequently. And there was so much that people were trying to figure out. And I think of that story in the Book of Acts where the Ethiopians, leader comes and says, is this talking about, the prophet or something else? And even then, Isaiah was the passage that was used to lead people to Jesus Christ. And it's something that, if we understand it well, we can use it to help lead people closer to Jesus.

>> Alex McFarland: Even still today, Indeed, indeed, very important part of God's word. Chapter 29, okay, Ariel is a reference, to Jerusalem. And verse four says, well, verse three, and I will camp against thee round about, and I will lay siege against thee with a mount and Raise forts against thee, and thou shalt be brought down and shalt speak out of the ground. And thy speech shall be low out of the dust. See, when you're on the ground, like, you're in the dust, even your speech is like, coming up from a very low place. And thy voice shall be as one that hath a familiar spirit out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust. Now, let me say this, folks. If you ever read in the Bible a familiar spirit, that is not a good thing. we want to be filled with and led by the Holy Spirit, but not a familiar spirit. But what opened them up to this was their idolatry. And, you know, Dylan, it seems like the habitual sin, into which the Israelites would fall over and over would be the sin of idolatry. Which is so sad because, I mean, they, they knew the true and living God, and under the Jews were entrusted the oracles of God. But their, their backsliding, their sin, their idolatry, would bring them down over and over. Dylan, I've got, one book of world history, and it says that the city of Jerusalem has probably been at war, besieged, attacked more times in history than any other city, in the world. And folks, if you go there and we'll be going, I'll be going, in March, 3-10-18, with Wildmon Tours, Tim Wildmon. And, if you want to come along, there may still be space, but when you're in Jerusalem, you can just sense there is a spiritual dynamic there that's hard to put your finger on. But, you know, it is the city of Jesus. Jerusalem is God's city. And yet, Dylan, that city has seen its share of turmoil, trouble, and even battles over all the centuries.

>> Alex McFarland: Hasn't has. And you think it goes all the way back to when the Ten Commandments were first revealed. There was Eryn and the golden calf and the people worshiping the calf instead of the one true God. Exactly. In contrast with what the Ten Commandments said. You shall have no other gods before you hear God's calling. This, this besiegement, that you're talking about, which we believe was talking about the Assyrians who came against Jerusalem in about 701 BC. So we have a specific historical time that that happened, but this has happened throughout the history of the Jewish nation. we know that for a fact. You know, from the first century A.D. until the 1900s, Israel didn't even exist as a nation. And then miraculously, in 1948, it was restored as a nation after World War II. And we see God working in special ways in the land of Israel and among the Jew still today. So despite all of these repeated efforts to bring down God's city and God's people, God still has a plan, God's still fulfilling it. And God still has a future hope for the Jewish people as well as those of us who believe in him through Jesus Christ today indeed.

>> Alex McFarland: This is Exploring the Word with our very special guest, Dylan Burrows. Alex McFarland here. Got a brief break. More of Isaiah 29, plus your calls and questions when we come back after this brief break. Stay tuned. Exploring the Word is back after this. Jesus, the king on a manger throne.

Exploring the Word offers answers to your favorite Bible questions

Welcome back to Exploring the Word. You know what, What a great song lyric. kudos to Brent Austin. All month long he's been picking out really great music. And, we're in Isaiah chapter 2:29. If you're at a place where you can get a copy of God's Word and follow along with us, we'd love for you to do that. Isaiah 29. And then of course, later on, get in the queue if you want to and call in 888-589-8840 and we'll get to your Bible questions. Myself and Dylan Burroughs. Bert is traveling today. But, you know, if you've ever had a dream, ah, maybe a good dream or a bad dream, but you dream and then you wake up and you realize, oh, it's not real. I was just asleep and dreaming. It's kind of like that in Isaiah 29, verse 8. So Israel is out of God's will, and it's made them very vulnerable. There's going to be the Assyrian attack. they're going to be brought low. They're not of a right frame of mind because they're away from God. And sin does that to you. And it says in verse eight, it's making these comparisons to what it is that the power, the presence, the protection of God is withdrawn. And it shall be, even as a hungry man who dreams. And behold, he eats, but he wakes up and his soul is empty. Or as a thirsty man who dreams. And behold, he drinks, but he wakes up, and he is still fainting from thirst. And it says in verse nine, stay yourselves in wonder. Cry out, cry. They are drunken, but not with wine. They stagger, but not with strong drink. For the Lord. This is very frankly, convicting and almost frightening. Verse 10. For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes. The prophets and your rulers, the seers. He has covered. Dylan, when, the knowledge of God is forgotten, when the revelation of His Word and God's truth is no longer known, and when leaders that should be calling the people to God and truth and His Word, when they're absent from their position, a culture, not only Israel, but any culture, our own culture, when you've fallen away from God and don't know the way back, that is a bad place to be.

>> Alex McFarland: It is. And, recently I have to tell this story. I went to get my eyes checked. My vision is not quite the same as what it used to be. And they do this nice scan now where it's full color. They zoom in on your eye and you can see every little vein. And you realize that the difference between seeing clearly and not seeing clearly is the lens that you have to look through. And for many of us, we're looking at the world through a, worldly lens. We see the things around us. We compare ourselves with those around us, better or worse. But when we compare ourselves to the Word of God, we see that oftentimes we're walking with the spiritual blindness, just like the Israelites of long ago. And when we do things that are wrong seem like they're right, where we can be. Like the, time that I saw the saying that said, you know, lord, lead me not into temptation, but, oh, who am I kidding? I know a shortcut. Let's go. And, you know, there's that idea that you know the right thing to do, but you'd rather do something that's more fulfilling and to your own self, pleasure. And that's what we see in this passage. There's a lot of focus on, I know the religious things I'm supposed to do to please God. I know what he wants me to do, but there's this blindness that makes it look like the wrong thing is the right thing. And, and that is what we see over and over again throughout Isaiah. And we see that even in our culture in many ways still today, don't we, Alex?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, Dylan, I've heard, an old preacher one time, he said, many, many Christians, they don't let the Bible get in the way of what they think and what they do. and that's kind of reminiscent of, verse, 13, which Jesus quoted this people draws near to me with their mouth and with their lips. They honor me, but their heart is far from me, and they don't fear the lord anymore. Verse 14 talks about some of the repercussions. here, therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvelous work among this people, even a marvelous, a wonder. For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden. Prudence is wisdom and discernment, but even that's going to be in very short supply. Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord. And their works are in the dark. And they say, who sees us and who knows us? Folks, the Bible, this phrase is in the old King James. God is, him before whom we have to do. The reformers, like Luther, use the phrase coram Deo. Everything we do is before the eyes of the Lord. Now, God loves you. God is merciful. God is patient. But most certainly be aware what you do, what you think, what you are planning, or perhaps I should say scheming. God knows it. So listen, the omniscience and the all knowing, mind of God, it should convict us and maybe even put a little fear into us. But then we should humble ourselves and repent and turn and say, lord, I forsake sin. doing things my way, the world, the flesh, and the devil. That's not going to be my, my habit anymore, Lord. I'm going to follow you. And Dylan, one thing about it. Throughout Isaiah, there are a lot of severe reprimands and judgments. But here's the thing. God acts redemptively. I mean, the Bible says God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. But God loves us so much. There was a man years ago, listen to this, folks. Sheldon Vanliere Aken. And he was a, friend of C.S. lewis, actually, and he wrote a book called A Severe Mercy. And it was the story how his young wife died of an illness, but it brought him to God. And he said God has a, mercy. Is God merciful? Sure, but it's a severe mercy. And that might sound like a bit of a contradiction, but what Sheldon Vanliere Aken was saying was God loves us so much that even if it takes some pretty harsh judgment to get our attention, he's willing to do that because he is ever trying to act redemptively in our lives.

>> Alex McFarland: And that's such a good word. to encourage those who are listening.

Sometimes we look at our lives and we either have one or two views

Sometimes we look at our lives and we either have one of two views. One, we think we're better than others, or two, we think that we're not good enough. And obviously neither of those are exactly right. Biblically, we need to compare ourselves with God's word. But we see many times in our culture that people fail to repent until they get caught. And that's what this passage talks about in verse 15 and 16. It talks about who sees us, who knows us. They think that they can get around. Nobody will see the wrong things they are doing. But we all know that God sees everything that happens. And it's just like Jesus is sitting with us in the room when we're looking at that wrong thing on the screen or we're having that wrong conversation. So it's a strong calling to us in terms of application that we don't get away with the things that we think we're getting away with, do we? It's really something that God sees all along. And are we willing to confess it? Are we willing to act and change and do things differently? even when it's difficult? And even when it's hard, like you talked about?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, verse 16. Things really kind of get turned upside down in Israel. And it uses that word, turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay. For shall the work of him that made it say, he made it not, or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, he hath no understanding. You know, Dylan, in doing family counseling and, you know, working with sometimes teenagers that parents, going through a struggle, more than a few times I've heard a teenager retort and say, well, you know, I didn't ask to be born. listen, just as the clay doesn't smart off at the potter or the thing being built, debate the one building it. We really. It's wrong for the stubborn human heart to try to be defiant against God. Now, the good news is, there's coming a time. This is how Isaiah 29 really concludes, when the blind would see again and God's name would once again be sanctified and revered. And Isaiah 29 reminds us that we are to sanctify Christ in our heart. that's in 1st Peter 3, 15. Sanctify the Lord in your heart. Remember, Daniel sanctified the Lord in his heart. Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself, with the things of this world. We are to serve him not only in our words and actions, but really in our heart and mind. Dylan, let me read a couple of scriptures, and I'm going to, throw it back to you. in that day, the day of God's blessing, where Lebanon will be turned into a fruitful field. And the fruitful field will be esteemed as a forest. In other words, God is going to give not just a harvest, but materially, but the greatest harvest of all, which is a turning back to him. the deaf will hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness. The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy one of Israel. For the terrible one is brought to naught, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off. Those that are looking for sin, Dylan, I'll throw it back to you, but here's the thing. The terrible one, the Assyrians, the, agents of judgment that God allowed in because of the sin. When we repent, when we return, God does give a reprieve. I've said this. God always, if we're willing, will act redemptively. And the, the repercussions of sin, God will not only forgive, but take back if we will return to him.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, spiritually, that's true. And one thing I love about this passage is that it also foreshadows what we see in the ministry of Jesus. It talks about the deaf shall hear, the blind shall see. And then Jesus comes along in the first century, and people are wondering who he is, what his teachings are, how he teaches with authority, how he's different. And suddenly he's doing these exact miracles that Isaiah spoke about 700 years. And they realized that this guy is more than just another rabbi. He's more than just a Jewish teacher who's gathering a following. This is the Messiah, the Son of God. And when we make that realization in our own lives, that's when God, changes us from the inside out. It's not about the power is within us. It's about God's spirit comes within us. And apart from God, we could do nothing. But through God, all things are possible. And we see a changed life where we can make an impact to those around us and to the nations. And it's a beautiful contrast with all of the wickedness, all of the sin, all of the idolatry we see earlier in this chapter. And it's really the calling that God has for each of us is that we don't stay stuck in sin, but we turn around and see God change us and transform us and transform the lives of those around us.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, you know, that's one of the beautiful things about the word of God. I mean, this was written to Israel of old and you know, there's so much about the Old Testament that is applicable just to the Israelites. Let me say, as a 21st century Christian, neither any of us listening is ever going to be called on to fight Canaanites or Amalekites. But the principles of repentance, turning from sin, humbling ourselves before God, calling out, trusting in his forgiveness and his mercy, it might have originally been written to the Israelites, but it's applicable for all of us today. I'm going to digress just a moment from Isaiah 29, Dylan. I know you know Jeremiah 29, 11, 13, where God is saying to Israel, for I know the thoughts I think towards you, thoughts of good, not of evil. You know, every now and then I've had somebody, kind of reprimand me and they'll say, well, that Christians can't claim that that was to Israel. Well, yeah, but the principles are the same, Dylan. I believe anybody that wants to come to Jesus and wants to walk in his ways, and anybody that says, lord, you be my master and my leader, and I will be your disciple and father, God, help me, guide me, lead me, even though this was originally written to Israel, I mean, the principles, any one of us can avail ourselves to these, can't we?

>> Alex McFarland: And that's so true. And that's the example we see in the NewSong Testament. The apostles of Jesus, they followed him, and they didn't necessarily become rich and famous, but they did become people who lived a different life and transformed the lives of others. We see that in the early church, and we see that throughout church history and still today, that those who are willing to humble themselves and call on the name of Jesus Christ shall be saved. But we're not just saved for heaven in the future. We're saved to do good works. Now, that's what the NewSong Testament teaches, is that we're. We were made to do good works to accomplish a purpose that God has for us. And that changes things. When we realize that our lives are filled with purpose, we are filled with meaning. And we're not just hopeless, we're not just meaningless, but we're a part of God's eternal plans from before the creation of the universe. And that should fill us with joy, that should fill us with motivation and a heart to serve those in need, regardless of their status in this life, to help bring everyone possible to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

>> Alex McFarland: Amen. Amen. I've got to read the last couple of verses. By the way, the voice you're listening to Dylan Burrows, who is sitting in today for Bert, who's traveling. Ah, Alex here also. In the next segment after this upcoming break, we'll get to your Bible questions. And we do have a couple of lines open, so if you want to get in the queue, you'll get through today.

Isaiah chapter 29 concludes that Jacob will not be ashamed

But this is so beautiful. As, Isaiah chapter 29 concludes, therefore saith the Lord who redeemed Abraham concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale. A ah, pale face means fear. The color drains from your face. In the Old Testament when it talks about being ashamed, I mean, that was in a state of judgment, not right with God nor man. And God is saying, Jacob will not be ashamed. But when he sees his children, the work of mine hands in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name. In other words, they acknowledge what God has done. They honor his name once again, the holy one of Jacob. They'll fear the God of Israel. But this is beautiful. Listen to this, folks. They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding. And they that murmured shall learn doctrine. Dylan, interesting. The word murmur. There is a word for complaining, isn't it? Those that were grousing and complaining against God that they're going to learn truth.

AFA took a stand against the war on Christmas 20 years ago

well, I hear that music and hey, before we go, to the break, Dylan, briefly, briefly give your website. Do you have a website?

>> Alex McFarland: no. I would just encourage people to come see us at Exploring the Word and talk more about this today. And when we come back we'll take some questions hopefully and hear more from our audience.

>> Alex McFarland: We're back after this.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Almost 20 years ago, AFA took a stand against the war on Christmas. Tools like the Naughty or Nice list showed which companies banned employees from saying Merry Christmas and the Christmas buttons. Need I say more? As the war grows into an all out assault on the gospel, AFA keeps fighting back and your financial gift helps. As our thanks this month we'll send you a 10 pack of Christmas buttons to wear and share. Visit afa.netchristmas2025 to give today.

Exploring the Word welcomes your Bible question for Merry Christmas

>> Alex McFarland: Welcome back to Exploring the Word from heaven to earth. A, savior. What a great story and its reality. Jesus came and we do wish you Merry Christmas. Well, here we've got some lines open. If you've got a Bible question, you will get through. dial the number 888-589-8840. That's 888-589-8840. Dylan Burroughs and I would love to hear your Bible question today. And, Dylan, I had the privilege over the last several months, did about two, four, six, eight high school assemblies for Turning Point usa. And I have got a, just in the last day or two, over 170 questions from teenagers, that have come in. And may I pose one to you right now, Dylan?

>> Alex McFarland: Of course, yes. I don't think we'll get through them all, but let's take one on. Let's do it. Yeah.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah. this is from a high schooler in Georgia who says, And I'm sure they might have read this online or something. Why were there so many books left out of the Bible, like the Book of Enoch? So this relates to the question of canonicity. But, Dylan, are there any books that were, quote, left out of the Bible?

>> Alex McFarland: Oh, it's such a good question. You hear it, because it makes for good fiction, it makes for good film. But the reality is the books that we have today have been well known throughout the centuries. The biggest question people usually will ask are about those deuterocanonical books, the ones that are called the Apocrypha between the Old Testament and the NewSong Testament that Roman Catholics and some other traditions use, but that Protestants don't. And that's something that is, a matter of debate a lot of times. But the ones that we know of from the 39 books of the Old Testament, the 27 books of the NewSong Testament were established very early. the Old Testament books would have been known by the time of Jesus. He quotes from several of them himself in the NewSong Testament and the Gospels, and then the NewSong Testament books. By the first three centuries, the church had established pretty clearly who those authors were, what those books were. And we had that list of 27 that we have today, 1700 years ago. So it's not like there's some book out there that's lost. But we do have books that are mentioned in the Bible. The Book of Enoch is one, and there are others. The Book of Jasher, I think, is another one that's mentioned. But it doesn't mean that they're scripture. It just means they're books that are mentioned in the Bible that are referenced by the people who write in those portions. So we want to be careful that we, don't deny that there are other books that are quoted in Scripture. That's not, an issue at all. It's the issue of which books are considered inspired scripture. And those were determined by Jewish and early Christian leaders hundreds of years ago.

>> Alex McFarland: you know, we could do literally we could do a week of shows about this, but, I believe absolutely, as Dylan said, that the Old Testament, that we have 39 Old Testament, 27 NewSong Genesis through Malachi, Matthew through Revelation, I believe that is the canon. God gave. One, book that I've mentioned a time, and there's so many I could reference. But, Norm Geisler, who was my mentor in graduate school, he and a man named William Nix, they wrote a book called From God to How We Got Our Bible. And there are many others. Neil Lightfoot is one ff, Bruce, many good books on canonicity, but, you can be sure the Bible we have is the Bible that God gave. Well, we're going to go to Mississippi. we're going to speak with Jason. Jason in Mississippi. Thank you for holding and welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Caroline: Thank you. Merry Christmas.

>> Alex McFarland: Merry Christmas.

During Millennial reign, will there be animal sacrifices? Dylan, you want to start

>> Alex McFarland: my question is, during the.

>> Caroline: Millennial reign, will there be animal sacrifices?

>> Alex McFarland: Dylan, you want to start on that one? That great question?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, yeah, there will be for a little while. Yeah. Well, it is an interesting discussion, but yeah, the Bible does talk about a millennial kingdom, which to be clear, is this 1,000 year period of Christ reigning on the earth before the final new heavens and new earth that are described in Revelation 21 and 22. And it talks about these, ritual sacrifices or animal sacrifices that will take take place. And so we do believe that those will take place. We don't understand everything about it, but there are places like Isaiah 56 where Isaiah talks about that, Jeremiah talks about that. I believe in Jeremiah 33, Zechariah talks about that, and Ezekiel talks about that. I think Ezekiel is your best source for that because in the final chapters of that book, he's talking about this future time period where there would be a millennial kingdom, millennial reign. And he goes into detail about what sacrifices will take place, and it includes some of these ritual animal sacrifices. The issue to keep in mind though, is that in this future time period, it will be a ritual sacrifice that is distinctly different from the Old Testament because it looked forward to the coming Messiah. Whereas during the millennial kingdom, Jesus is there as the Messiah and it's celebrating and worshiping him. So that I hope that gives you a quick short answer to it. There's a lot more that could be said. But a, great question. Appreciate you asking it.

>> Alex McFarland: Well. And yeah, the millennial kingdom with the animal sacrifices, it will not be for the atonement of sins. Jesus paid the atonement on Calvary's cross. Dylan, I Think during the millennial kingdom, that is the most revelation the human race will ever have. The Bible has been fulfilled. Christ is physically present. And yet there still will be some, that rebel and turn against Jesus. So the sacrifices. And by the way, this is like in Ezekiel 40, 48. it's a memorial and a witness, not an atonement. But thank you, Jason. We're going to go to Texas. John in Texas. Thank you for calling, and welcome to Exploring the Word.

>> Caroline: Well, thank you for having me this afternoon. Merry Christmas to y'.

>> Alex McFarland: All.

Joseph: I believe in the eternal security of the believer

>> Caroline: And I've got a question for you. Out of Hebrews 6.

>> Alex McFarland: Okay, okay.

>> Caroline: Verses 4 and following. When it talks about someone who apostates, it appears to be talking about a believer who has actually turned their back on their salvation and walked away. I was wondering if you could chime in some thoughts on that, because we also know that we were told that no one can pluck us from his hand, but this appears to say that we can jump ship. Looking forward to your thoughts.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, let me speak to this a little bit. This relates to the subject of eternal security. And one of the best books that I could ever recommend on this. It's a small book, it's not large, by Charles Stanley, wrote Eternal Security. Can you be sure? and let me say this. This is one of those doctrines that equally good godly people might disagree on. I do believe in eternal security. I believe if a person is truly born again, regenerated in their spirit, name is in the Lamb's book of life, indwelt and sealed by the Holy Spirit. Ephesians 4:30. You mentioned John 10:28, that nothing can pluck us out of his hand. I believe in the eternal security of the believer. But, I don't think this is an issue on the level of, like, the deity of Jesus. So I know that there are equally godly people that disagree on this. But, Dylan, long story short, and you feel free to disagree, I think the Hebrews 6 is somebody that would once verbally speak for Jesus, then repudiate and deny. I don't think they were ever born again in the first place, really. But. And you may disagree, Dylan, the floor is yours.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, I would agree with your take on it. And let me say this. This usually comes up when we see someone who's claimed to be a believer, lived what we would think is a Christian life, and then at some point leaves the faith and says they're no longer a believer. What do you do with those situations? Did the person really know Jes Jesus and then later not be a Christian anymore, or was that person ever really a Christian to begin with? Who knew Christ? And I think First John is the best book in the Bible when it comes to salvation and our security in Christ. I think of First John 2:19. It says they went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their going showed that none of them belong to us. And it sounds a little wordy, but the idea is that those who last are those who are truly saved. And ah, we don't necessarily have to make all the judgments ourselves. We'll let God do the judging at the end. But when someone falls away like that, it's often a case where you see that it's a person who never truly believed. There are times where people can backslide in their faith or sin in their faith and then later be restored. But in many cases it's like Alex had just mentioned, it's someone who appeared to be a Christian but never really had a change of heart or a real relationship with Jesus Christ.

>> Alex McFarland: Well, we need to make sure the Bible says, you know, make sure, examine, yourself and see if ye be in the face. Most important thing ever. Joseph in, Louisiana. Joseph, thanks for holding.

>> Caroline: yes, I'm, sort of like a new believer. And I've been reading, that we should pray always. And I've been fighting myself at work. I wear a hairnet and a hat and I find myself praying. But I think I've read somewhere where we should remove our hat when we're praying to God. What is your thoughts on that?

>> Alex McFarland: Great question, great question. And I think this is one we've never, never had. You know, a lot of people I've been at, you know, places like a ball game where, somebody, the men will remove their hat during the playing of the national anthem or if there's a prayer. I really think NewSong Testament Christians, that we're under grace, not under law. but if you feel in your heart as a sign of reverence to remove, you know, your head covering as a sign of, you know, we bow our head, we show humility before God. I guess in the life of a born again Christian, I think it would be kind of a personal conviction whether you do or whether you don't. But Dylan, do you have a feeling on that?

>> Alex McFarland: Well, in American culture, people typically take off their hat to show respect when they do the national anthem or when they pray. And anytime you're doing that as a sign of respect. That's a great thing. But there's, this biblical controversy about it, too, that goes back to First Corinthians 11 that talks about men dishonoring Christ if they pray with their heads covered. Well, that's where the tradition comes from. But I think it's really misunderstood that, to be honest, if you and I were having a prayer time together and you were wearing a hat and I was not wearing a hat, it, doesn't mean your prayers are worse than mine. That's not what it's about. It's about reverence and respect when we pray. And as long as we're doing that, I don't think God is so concerned about what's on our head as he is about our heart.

>> Alex McFarland: Indeed. Thank you, Joseph, and blessings to you in your walk with the Lord. Brent Austin, I think, Brent, you have one, and I see Don from Virginia. Jeanette, we're going to do our best to get to you guys. But, Brent, did you have a question from an online viewer?

Does God harden hearts today like he did in the Old Testament

>> Jeff Chamblee: Yes.

>> Alex McFarland: Katy on Facebook, poses this question.

>> Jeff Chamblee: Does God harden hearts today like he did in the Old Testament?

>> Alex McFarland: Okay. you know, the Bible talks about, God hardened Pharaoh's heart. Bert Harper and I have talked about this at length. I kind of think. And by the way, CS Lewis would concur with this. People sort of harden their own heart. And the NewSong Testament warns about being calloused. You know, I got calluses on my hand even though I haven't really done work on the farm in 20 years. I miss it. I love farm work. But when your skin gets calloused, you don't feel like you did. And I think when our heart gets calloused and we have kind of willfully resisted the overtures of the Holy Spirit, it wasn't necessarily that God was pushing us away or wanted us, but we, by virtue of disobedience, habitual repeated unbelief, and resisting the spirit of God, our hearts get hardened through our own, rejection of Christ's overtures. Dylan, what do you say?

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, I mean, it's a both and situation where we harden our hearts and we look at that and say, is that God hardening our hearts or is it us doing it? Well, it's God allowing it. But we're the ones who are actively doing the hardening through our sinful actions. So, it's a little bit of a tension there, but at the same time, nobody is too far for God to change. And we've Seen that throughout scripture and we've seen that throughout history is that God may have a situation where someone's heart seems so hard that they can never turn to the Lord. And yet he works in powerful ways to change even the most hardened city or most hardened sinner and turn them to Jesus Christ. So it doesn't perfectly answer the question, but there is a sense in which God does the hardening and there's also a sense in which we are the ones who harden ourselves and sin against the ah, Lord.

>> Alex McFarland: The answer is let's let's follow the Lord the minute we sense His Holy Spirit calling.

>> Alex McFarland: Yeah, we can't blame it on him, that's for sure. Yeah.

>> Alex McFarland: Don in Virginia. We're going to do our best to get everybody here. Don in Virginia. Welcome. Don. Yes. You're on.

>> Caroline: Oh, hey, thanks for taking my call.

Dylan Burroughs: Tell everybody about Jesus this Christmas

I have a question, question about something that a friend of mine had, suggested that I read. The Book of the Nazarene, or also known as the Gospel of Kolaidi. Think I'm pronouncing it right. he said that it presents a more full gospel, but it is not exactly scripture. Have you heard of that? And.

>> Alex McFarland: Let me jump in here for one thing. Jude verse three speaks of quote, the faith once delivered to the saints. The faith once delivered is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus for the sins of the world. And we are saved by our faith in Him. I was at Barnes and Noble Bookstore yesterday, Dylan, and there is a plethora of books about the so called missing gospels. Or you know, you need maybe the Bible plus this other book. those can be historically interesting and such, but, be careful. I truly believe Revelation 22, the Bible concludes. It says don't add to or take away, the Bible is the Bible. Anything beyond that, we might read to consider, but one book we read to believe and that is God's word and God's word alone. Hey, Dylan Burrs, thank you for being with us today. I hear that music. Jeanette in Virginia, please call again tomorrow. We'll try to get to you. In the meantime, Dylan Burroughs, thank you for pitching in with us on exploring the Word.

>> Alex McFarland: Pleasure to be with you. Look forward to being with everyone again tomorrow.

>> Alex McFarland: Hey, tomorrow is going to be fire away Friday. All questions all the hour. Tell your friends. Hey, if you would tell somebody about AFR and exploring the Word. But most of all, tell everybody about Jesus. Merry Christmas to you all. The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.

A Continuing Study of the Book of Isaiah