Financial Virtues Series: Justice (Righteousness)

Rob West: What does justice have to do with our money? More than you might think! Hi, I'm Rob West. Scripture calls God's people to practice justice—not as a slogan, but as a way of life shaped by righteousness, mercy, and love of neighbor. Today, Justin Lonas joins us as we continue our series on the cardinal virtues. We'll talk about justice and how our everyday financial decisions can reflect God's heart for restoration and flourishing. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio: biblical wisdom for your financial journey.

Well, over the last couple of weeks, we've considered how prudence and temperance shape financial stewardship. Now we turn to justice and how love of neighbor takes shape in the way we handle money. Our guest is Justin Lonas, Director of Foundational Products at The Chalmers Center. Justin works alongside our friend, Dr. Brian Fikkert, to create resources that equip churches and ministries to think biblically about poverty, generosity, restoration, and justice. Not to mention, their Helping Without Hurting series is one of my favorite resources to recommend for addressing poverty from a biblical perspective. Justin, great to have you here.

Justin Lonas: Thanks, Rob. It's great to be with you.

Rob West: Justin, when many people hear the word "justice," they may think first of politics or courtrooms. And justice certainly has a place in those things. But in the Christian tradition, justice is much deeper than that. So, how would you define justice from a biblical perspective?

Justin Lonas: Yeah, that's a great question and a great place to start. You know, a lot of Christian thinkers—going all the way back to Augustine, to more contemporary voices like Nicholas Wolterstorff or Oliver O'Donovan—have approached this question. And it doesn't always bubble up, in my experience, in average Sunday morning teaching or conversation for most American Christians.

So what you mentioned here about courtroom justice is certainly part of biblical justice, but it's only part of it. We would call this retributive justice: punishing evildoers, protecting the innocent, keeping public order, and things like that. But there's more to a full biblical vision of justice. It includes restorative justice, or putting things to rights and fixing what's broken. And this is often part of our more legal framework as well—such as when a judge fines a perpetrator to make recompense for what was stolen or broken.

But there's a more holistic dimension of justice in Scripture as well that fits a broad, creative understanding of the way things ought to be. We often use the word shalom to describe this—this vision of what God has designed us for when people live together in harmony, enjoying flourishing relationships with God, with others, and with all of creation. And the story of creation and new creation is really the lens for true biblical justice in its fullest sense.

In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word most often translated for "justice" is mishpat, which can include all of these dimensions and even includes the idea of the decrees of God and His character. And there's a related term that usually gets translated as "righteousness," which is tzedakah. Together, these are ascribed to God as the foundation of His throne (Psalm 89 and 97). So justice and righteousness go together.

And indeed, actually, when you get forward to the New Testament, there's really just one Greek word that does double duty for both of those—you have to translate it according to context—dikaiosyne. In modern language, we tend to divorce these two. We hold justice as this legal, public thing, and righteousness as this personal, private behavior question. But personal righteousness and public justice in Scripture are both tied together, as they both flow from the character of God and are meant to characterize God's people.

Rob West: Mm, that is such a helpful overview. Let's apply it to money. We've got just 45 seconds until the break, so help us set the stage for why, as believers, we need to think faithfully about finances and love of neighbor as a part of our stewardship journey.

Justin Lonas: Yeah, all of us are interconnected, and the way we choose to earn and spend our money necessarily affects other people in our communities. As Christians, we can't just take our cues for financial justice from the world around us. We can't merely go on to just focus on wealth building and viewing stewardship primarily through the lens of personal responsibility or personal fulfillment. The whole community is always God's horizon for our financial resources.

Rob West: Mm, that is so good. We're continuing our series today on the cardinal virtues. We're focused on justice today, joining us to have this conversation is Justin Lonas, Director of Foundational Products at The Chalmers Center. When we come back, we'll continue to unpack this and look at biblical justice and how that relates to how we manage God's money as stewards. Much more to come just around the corner. Don't go anywhere.

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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. With me today, Justin Lonas. We're continuing our series on the cardinal virtues today. We're focused on justice.

Justin, before the break, we were talking about a biblical view of justice and how we see that there's not a long leap to recognizing—when we understand the fullness of biblical justice—the economic or financial components of justice. When we look to some of the primary texts in God's Word, we see His desires for us in this area. Unpack that for us.

Justin Lonas: Yeah, when we talk about justice, it's easy for us to think about God's law. And God's law—especially the regulations for community life that He gives us in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy—so much of that involves stewardship and distribution of resources. There's passages about honest weights and measures, fair wages, and care for those in poverty, all side by side.

All of this is grounded in those texts in the fact that God is the one who owns everything. He owns the land that He's given to the people; He owns the whole earth. Any wealth and resources generated by our work is seen by Scripture as a gift from God. It's not something we create by ourselves without any help. As such, how we earn it and how we spend it are not independent of justice. We can't separate our economic lives from what it means to lean into God's justice and biblical righteousness.

Rob West: Mm, yeah. That's well said. Scripture often connects justice with righteousness, mercy, and care for the vulnerable. So, how do those biblical themes help us understand justice as more than just simply being "fair"?

Justin Lonas: Yeah, that's great. It's often the case that people who are suffering from material poverty, and people just on the margins of society more generally, are experiencing a whole lot of the effects of the Fall. Poverty can be caused by poor personal choices—and that tends to be a majority view of American Christians, according to some research that I've looked at—but it can also be caused by the sins of others. It can also be caused by just the brokenness that's inherent in the world. Our systems don't work for everybody; our society doesn't work for everybody. People get sick; people have mental health issues. Poverty is complex.

For those of us living in a modern Western society, we tend to think of ourselves as kind of a meritocracy—like you earn everything you get. In that view, if we're thinking of justice only in terms of fairness, it can be easy for us to not remember to be more proactive, to sense our obligations, not just our rights, to reach down to people who are struggling and who are not able to participate as fully in the culture around us as we are because of different circumstances. Biblical justice just puts a different lens on how we work with people and how we show mercy. It's not enough to want to do it; we've got to stretch ourselves a little bit.

Rob West: Yeah, that's so good. One of the things that I've appreciated about The Chalmers Center is that you help us see that poverty is not only a lack of material things, but really, it's also a brokenness in relationships—whether that's with God, with self, others, or creation. So, how does that framework then deepen the way we think about justice?

Justin Lonas: Yeah, it gets back to our understanding of who we were created to be and what the Fall has broken. Yes, the Fall messed with our relationship with God, and we need Jesus to restore our relationship with God. But our relationship with God is also part of how we're designed to flourish in other relationships. We have a relationship with ourselves and how we understand ourselves as being made in His image, a relationship with other people, and a relationship with creation—which stewardship, our work, and money fall under as well.

When our relationship with God is broken by sin, all these other relationships get broken, too. And then broken people—we still go out and are fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it, but instead of spreading goodness and the reign and worship of God through the whole earth, we also spread brokenness. I tell people: broken people make broken systems, and broken systems further contribute to our brokenness.

These things are complex, but praise God, Jesus is making all things new, and He's working on all of us. It's not just that He's fixing our spiritual life and our relationship with God, but He has a plan for restoration of all things. How we spend our money is a huge piece of that.

Rob West: Justin, let's bring this into everyday financial decisions. What might justice look like in how we spend, save, give, invest, or even hire, pay, and lend? Really, just making decisions in our businesses, churches, and in our own financial lives.

Justin Lonas: Yeah, it's so easy for us—I'm a theology nerd—it's easy for us to get too abstract on this. But at the end of the day, think about where you spend your money and don't just look for the most "bang for your buck" or the traditional American financial advice. Look for ways that you can bless other people.

How can you support a new immigrant family that's opened a grocery store in your neighborhood and spend some of your grocery budget there instead of at the supermarket that is sending all your earnings out of the community? How can you invest locally? How can you spend more time and social capital to press into those communities? Even hire people who may need a second chance, who are dealing with a criminal record, or who don't have the full skills yet. How can you use your business, odd jobs around your home, office, or church to connect with people where they are and lean into the ways that your blessings from God can bless others?

We talk about this a lot in all of our trainings: the idea that what people in poverty need is not "helpers" as much as allies. We need people who are willing to do life together with them. We need them and what they remind us about the nature of how flourishing happens to communities, not just individuals. We need to be engaged in that, and how and where we spend our money is a huge piece of that.

My good friend Michael Rhodes talks a lot about this from the modern application of the biblical teaching of gleaning that we see in the Old Testament, where you're supposed to leave the edges of your field for those four groups of people that God has special concern for: the fatherless, the widow, the sojourner, and the poor. In a modern context, maybe that means not spending everything you earn on yourself. Or, if you're a business owner, not maximizing every corner of profit, but leaving some opportunities for other people to join you in that work and come together in community that provides for everybody. It's a different mindset than the traditional ways that many Americans think about money, but it pays dividends that are way more than monetary.

Rob West: Oh, this is so helpful. We've got just about 30 seconds left. What is one practical takeaway that someone can apply in their lives today?

Justin Lonas: Yeah, I'd say when you think about your budgeting, inventory how you're spending your money and pick some places where you could redirect some of that spending towards people on the margins—like those examples I gave: shopping and investing in odd jobs in the community. Just picking a few places to sow those seeds could be huge.

Rob West: Justin, what a treat to have you here today. Thanks for stopping by.

Justin Lonas: Thank you, Rob. It's a great pleasure.

Rob West: That's Justin Lonas, Director of Foundational Products at The Chalmers Center. Learn more about their incredible work helping Christians rethink poverty and respond with practical biblical principles at chalmers.org.

We'll be back with your questions after this break, so call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Or if you'd prefer to email your question, send it to us at [email protected]. Stick around.

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Rob West: Well, so thrilled you're with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Our lines are open, which means it's time for you to call with your financial questions. That number: 800-525-7000. 800-525-7000. The team is standing by; the only thing we need is you.

We'd love to lean into whatever you're thinking about in your financial life. You know, as I think about the role of money in our lives, we realize that money is a good gift from a good God, to enjoy and to provide. Think about how it can be used as a tool as well: when we hold it loosely, give it generously, invest it strategically, we can promote the common good. We can advance the gospel.

You know, I was reading in my quiet time this morning about the women that supported Jesus' ministry. They used their means to fund ministry—it wasn't just any ministry, it was the ministry of our Lord and our Savior. Just an incredible and powerful example about how money can be a tool to accomplish God's purposes. And that's the privilege that you and I have.

But at the same time, we recognize that money can compete for our hearts, especially in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. If we're not careful, it can quickly become an idol and choke out the word from bearing fruit in our lives. And that's where you and I step into the conversation around the goal being faithfulness—to faithfully manage what God has entrusted to us over a lifetime, making one wise decision at a time, and recognizing that when we're faithful in the small things, we will be entrusted with greater things. And so it's about that next decision.

We also need to recognize that the way we handle money is a reflection of our priorities. And so we can search our hearts and say, "God, how does my money reflect what I value, and where do I need to reorder my priorities to bring them in line with Your values and what I see in Scripture?"

Well, each day we want to be that helpful resource to bring you back to God's word, to encourage you, to cheer you on, to help you course-correct when you get off track—I know I certainly need that from time to time—and together search the scriptures and understand God's heart as it relates to His money. Because after all, as stewards, as managers, you have to know the Master's heart in order to make decisions that reflect the Master's wishes.

Well, when you call today with your questions around debt repayment, or budgeting, or maybe it's investing, or wealth transfer, whatever you have going on in your financial life, we'll lean into that and not only encourage you, but give you some practical help. So call right now: 800-525-7000. It's 800-525-7000.

Let's dive in today. We're going to begin in Utah. David, go right ahead, sir.

David: Yes, I have a question about some money. Um, I have no debt, and I've just saved up $100,000, and rather than just sitting there, I think there ought to be something better I can do with it.

Rob West: (Laughter) Yeah. Well, it's a great question, and it's a good starting place to just say, "Listen, I've got this extra money." Let me ask you a couple of questions: Do you have it earmarked for any specific purpose that would help us back into a time horizon for this money, or is it really just surplus?

David: It would just be surplus.

Rob West: Okay. So you're not planning on buying a home or, you know, trying to generate any income from it. You've got all that covered, is that right?

David: Yes, sir.

Rob West: Okay. And what are your income sources today?

David: Um, in construction. Um, 70 to 80 thousand a year.

Rob West: Okay, great. And, um, in terms of, you know, other savings beyond this 100,000, would this be the extent of your reserves, or do you have anything else that's liquid savings?

David: Um, we have like an emergency fund and probably another 40 or 50 thousand set aside for things like that.

Rob West: Yeah, that's great. So you've got, you know, upwards of six months, maybe more, worth of expenses in emergency funds beyond this 100,000. And then what about long-term savings for retirement? Are you contributing to some sort of retirement plan, either individually or at your business?

David: My wife and I both have been maxing out our Roth each year, um, for several years.

Rob West: Yeah. And how much have you accumulated there?

David: I believe we're—it's around 130,000 each.

Rob West: Okay. And how far off is retirement? And I'm not saying we need to follow the cultural perspective on this—that we reach an expiration date where we cease all productive activity. I don't think that's the biblical model; we were created to be productive. But we do recognize there may come a season where you're redirected to service that doesn't offer pay, or you're not able to continue in the profession you're in because it's too taxing on your body—those types of things. So, you know, how far off would you expect a transition like that to occur where you may need to supplement your income?

David: Hopefully, at least 15 years.

Rob West: Okay, yeah, great. And you all would have Social Security at that point. Obviously, you're living fairly modestly, well within, you know, that 80,000 a year that you have coming in because you've been able to put away the 100,000. And perhaps even in that season of life, you know, your expenses go down a bit. And so, hopefully, Social Security could cover a big part of that.

But, you know, typically what we would say is you'd probably want maybe 12 times your income, so that'd be about a million dollars. You know, if it was 10 times your income, it'd be about 800,000. So I think somewhere between 800,000 and a million as a starting point might be a good goal. You guys have about a quarter of a million, but you have time on your side, as you said, you've got 15 years, and even then, maybe you continue working part-time or even beyond your time horizon.

So, I think with this 100,000, at the very least, we want to continue to fund fully those Roth IRAs every year. That's a great savings vehicle. Do you have anything—what other types of retirement plans do you have? Do you have something at work beyond the Roths?

David: No, self-employed.

Rob West: Okay. So have you ever looked at what's called a SEP IRA—S-E-P?

David: Have not.

Rob West: Okay. So this would allow you... you know, with your Roth, you can put in for 2026 if you're, you know, if you're over 50, 50 or older, you could put in $8,600. But you get to the end of that contribution limit pretty quickly.

You know, so with the SEP IRA for self-employed individuals—a Simplified Employee Pension—you can put away quite a bit more, which is helpful because you don't have the 401(k) that a lot of W-2 employees have. So that would allow you to put in 25% of your eligible compensation, which allows you to put in quite a bit more—maybe, you know, as much as 60k. Obviously, you wouldn't do that, but I think it would give you the ability to do, you know, more than you are now.

That would be the thing that I would look to do with this 100,000. You're not going to be able to deploy it fully, but maybe you could over the next two years, get it working in a pre-tax environment.

I've got to hit a break. I'll give you the instructions on what that looks like after this. Stay with us.

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Rob West: Great having you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We've got lines open; we're taking your questions today at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000.

Before the break, we were talking to David in Utah. He's got about $100,000 in surplus that he and his wife have been able to sock away. That's beyond their emergency fund—so they've got another 40 to 50 in emergency funds, they're making about 80,000 a year, so living within their means. They've got a fully funded, maybe even more than fully funded, emergency fund. That's great. He's in construction, self-employed, and just wondering what to do with this 100,000.

And I was saying, you know, David, if your goal, you know, someday would be to have somewhere between three-quarters of a million and a million dollars to be able to generate enough income to supplement Social Security so you all could maintain your lifestyle into your retirement years and not, you know, ever run out of money, that would be great. You're on your way to doing that with the quarter of a million dollars you've got in your Roths.

But taking this 100 and getting that into a tax-advantaged environment would be really helpful because you don't work for an employer that offers a 401(k). And so, you're going to be limited to that $8,600 a year, at least for 2026, that you can put in your Roth, times two for you and your spouse.

But a SEP IRA—S-E-P IRA—allows self-employed individuals to put away quite a bit more money. So, you're able to put in up to 25% of eligible compensation, or effectively 20% of net self-employment income after certain adjustments, subject to the IRS annual dollar limit. You're going to get a tax deduction on what goes in, so it's tax-advantaged in the year you put it in, and then you get tax-deferred growth, which really helps because the taxes are not a drag on the investments as they grow.

Now, if we take this and apply it to your situation—and these wouldn't be exact numbers, but just to give you a ballpark—on $80,000 of self-employed income, you know, the maximum contribution, if we use this 20% of net self-employment earnings after deducting half of the self-employment tax, you know, it'd probably be in the neighborhood of somewhere between $14,000 and $16,000 a year. The exact amount's going to depend on your Schedule C income and your self-employment tax calculation.

So, let's say you were able to put in roughly 15,000 this year, and then you did another 15 next year. You could slowly get this in and, you know, reduce your overall taxes in the year that you make the contribution as well, but it would take you some time. Now, if your wife is also employed by the business and is paid reasonable wages, she could have her own; if not, then she couldn't.

But that would be one option. And I think perhaps, you know, either using maybe a robo-advisor to get that done at Fidelity or Schwab, like Fidelity Go or the Schwab Intelligent Portfolios, or maybe hiring an advisor—a Certified Kingdom Advisor—to manage the Roths and help you get this 100,000 deployed through a taxable account combined with a SEP, I think could be a great option. And then you're not having to make the investment decisions. If you wanted that, you could find a Certified Kingdom Advisor at findacka.com.

But how does all that sound?

David: That sounds great.

Rob West: Yeah, good. So I think that'd be the direction that I would go. Again, that website is findacka.com. Or if you wanted to do it yourself, you know, you could use one of the robos, or you could go to soundmindinvesting.org. The Sound Mind Investing newsletter would give you mutual funds that you could, you know, do it yourself and essentially use their system of recommendations to buy and sell the funds that fit your risk profile.

But, you know, I think as you continue to accumulate wealth—I mean, you've already got essentially $350,000 between the 100 and the two Roths, that's a good bit of money—and, you know, it'd probably be worth your while to have an advisor step into that. But hopefully that helps you, David, give you a few things to think about. We appreciate your calling. If I can help further along the way, don't hesitate to reach out.

Let's go to Mississippi. Kim, how can I help you?

Kim: Hey Rob, my name is Kim. I am calling—thank you so much for your show. I listen to it every day and you've got some great wisdom to share with people, so...

Rob West: Thank you.

Kim: ...my question is: my husband and I are both retired, we're 64 years old, we've never used a financial planner. We have looked into using a CKA, we've listened to your show for about a year now. There's not one local—we live in a little town called Decatur here in Mississippi.

Anyway, we want to know if you can recommend... We have money that... we've been blessed, our house is paid off, we're debt-free. We are both retired; he's retired military, I'm retired government. 64 years old. We have TSP savings of about $700,000, we have a credit union account that has like over $100,000 in it, we have a checking account that... and really we don't need this, but it's got a good bit, about $50,000-$60,000 in it. Savings of about $100,000.

And we just need to know... We've looked up for CKAs in our area; unfortunately, there's not one right here. There's a couple in Mississippi, there's some in Birmingham and Tuscaloosa nearby. But we just... I just want to call you and see what your... what we need to be doing as far as... I hear you talk about Roth IRAs, too...

Rob West: Yes, yes.

Kim: ...What do we need to be doing with our money, Rob?

Rob West: Yeah. Well, first of all, I really appreciate your kind remarks about the program. You guys are in great shape, Kim. Obviously, you all have been faithful in managing what God has entrusted to you. You've lived modestly, you've worked hard, you've saved quite a bit. You're in a really strong position being debt-free, having plenty of liquid reserves, and having those retirement assets.

So you each have Thrift Savings Plans from your government work, is that right?

Kim: We do.

Rob West: All right. And what do you have accumulated between the two of those?

Kim: About $700,000.

Rob West: Okay. And are you pulling anything out of those, or are you just living on Social Security?

Kim: We are just living on my husband's military retirement...

Rob West: Military, yeah.

Kim: ...and Social Security, yes sir. And then I've got, you know, government retirement plus my Social Security.

Rob West: Got it. Yeah, very good. So, yeah, you're in really good shape. I mean, this is a situation where you can even start to ask how much is enough. And really, you know, even though there are some risks in this season of life—although he'd have VA benefits—you know, if you all needed expensive long-term care at some point (70% of Americans 65 and older will need that, you know, if it ever required nursing care or memory care, I mean that could be $100,000 a year or more, and that's going up). So, you know, I'm not saying you're necessarily... you've over-accumulated.

But you also have the opportunity, you know, sitting on $700,000 and plenty of liquid reserves, and the fact that you're not touching it and it's continuing to grow, to start to ask the question: is there some opportunity to do some additional giving?

I also love the idea that you're thinking about aligning your values with your investments. And that's where I think a Certified Kingdom Advisor could be really helpful. Although I'm a big fan of the TSP because it's got low-cost options and it's very simple to pick the investments that match your risk profile using the G, the C, the F, the I, and the S funds. And so, you know, it allows you to build a portfolio that actually has great performance, and it takes a lot of the guesswork out.

But if you rolled those TSPs over to two IRAs, one for each of you, and you had a Certified Kingdom Advisor that could come into the mix, that would allow you to actually tailor the portfolio a little more dialed-in—because you have unlimited investment options—to your risk profile and goals and objectives. It would allow you to do some additional giving, because you'd have the qualified charitable distribution opportunity once you reach 70—and I know you're not there yet, but once you do, you'd be able to do giving out of your IRA that never becomes taxable, which is not possible with the TSP. So that's nice.

And then thirdly, you could find a Certified Kingdom Advisor that could bring faith-aligned investments, which is not available in the TSP either, where it would be screened to make sure that it aligns with your values. And even if there's not someone in your area—which, we need to change that, so if you're hearing the program and you're an advisor in that area, be sure to reach out to Kingdom Advisors—but there's plenty of advisors in the cities you mentioned, like Birmingham and Huntsville, that would be willing to work with you remotely, and maybe you just visit in person once a year.

Hang on the line, we'll talk a bit more.

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Announcer: As the leading advocate for the Christian financial industry, Kingdom Advisors serves the public by promoting the integration of a biblical worldview across every aspect of the financial services industry. And we serve a growing network of thousands of Christian financial professionals, equipping and empowering them to carry biblical financial wisdom to their clients, peers, and community. For more information, visit kingdomadvisors.com. That's kingdomadvisors.com.

Announcer: FaithFi's preferred banking partner is Christian Community Credit Union, now joined with AdelFi, a division of CCCU, bringing you the best in Christian banking for greater Kingdom impact. With high-yield checking, savings, Visa cash back cards, and a new competitive high-yield money market account, your everyday banking helps advance the Gospel. Visit faithfi.com/banking and use the code FAITHFI. Membership eligibility required. Accounts are privately insured up to $250,000. This institution is not federally insured.

Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. By the way, if you want to find a CKA in your area, head to findacka.com. You know, one of the things that comes to mind—and by the way, if you have a question today, call right now, 800-525-7000. If you want to get your question in the mix today, we've got room for you, 800-525-7000, you can call right now.

You know, one of the things that comes to mind is we've heard from several callers today that are sitting on fully funded emergency funds. That's great. You know, the next question is, okay, what do I do with that emergency fund? Where do I put it? How do I get a good return on it?

What we're finding is more and more of our listeners are wanting to align their banking institution with their values, and they're using AdelFi Christian Banking to do that. This is the merger of AdelFi and Christian Community Credit Union. CCCU has been a longtime partner of ours here at FaithFi. This is now combined, by far, the largest Christian banking institution in the country. And they've got a wonderful opportunity right now for believers who want to be a part of the credit union: they're paying 4% on their money market for at least 12 months, and it's a great opportunity. They're also doing up to $400 as a bonus for FaithFi listeners.

If you want to check that out and be in an insured money market with a Christian banking partner, AdelFi Christian Banking is really the preferred solution in the country. Just go to faithfi.com/banking to learn more. That's faithfi.com/banking, and you can check it out. They even have a Visa Rewards where with every swipe, a portion goes to Christian ministries. They've got the money market and their Harvest Savings—really just a wonderful organization, and excited about where they're heading because the combined power of these two organizations together being able to serve God's people with even greater capacity and technology, and an incredible new smartphone app that's coming out here real soon, is just really powerful. So again, that website: faithfi.com/banking.

You know, we also talk a lot about just the opportunity to get with a Certified Kingdom Advisor. And the reason we mention that so often is just because of how important we believe it is that specifically as you're working with an advisor who's advising you on investments, and planning, and helping you stay accountable to the goals that you've set, and the giving goals, and defining enough, and preparing the next steward...

You know, we're hearing a lot about what AI is doing, and we're hearing every day how now with Claude and ChatGPT, you can link up all your accounts and it'll essentially give you a financial plan. What ChatGPT and Claude can't do—Perplexity, fill in the blank, Gemini—it can't help you think about the impact of the money on the next generation. It can't help you think about how the money can compete with your heart for first position. It can't help you think about defining enough, and accelerating your giving, and giving wisely.

So all of these things come with a trusted advisor who can really understand the heart of God in Scripture and counsel you out of a biblical worldview. And that's why we're just more convinced than ever that a Certified Kingdom Advisor is the way to go. And as we've studied it—we commissioned last year the largest study of advisors versus CKAs in terms of the outcomes with their clients—here's one of the things that just leaped off the page in the study: it was that clients of a CKA were twice as likely to say, "My giving has significantly—this is a quote—significantly increased since working with my Certified Kingdom Advisor." We also saw that 70% of the time, CKAs are recommending and offering faith-based investments to their clients. I mean, these are just a few of the things going on when you're with an advisor who shares your values. So if you want to learn more, just go to findacka.com and you can do a search in your area.

All right, let's try to jump into some more questions here. We're going to head to Mississippi again and talk to Brandy. Go ahead.

Brandy: Yes, can you hear me?

Rob West: Yes, ma'am. How can I help?

Brandy: I have a question. First of all, I have adopted two children, and just got approved for disability due to my back and severe asthma. Go crank the car, put the AC on, and put Mason in and Ashley and the baby. And I wanted to know...

Rob West: And you're multitasking as we speak! I hear it, that's great!

Brandy: I do! I can't stand to... I hate to cook because I can't be in one spot more than five seconds. I do two 10-year-olds that I've adopted, got from the day they left the hospital. I also have an 11-month-old grandbaby that I take care of while mama and dad work. I also take care of my home. I have a husband of 33 years. I have a 26-year-old daughter, a 17-year-old daughter. We go to church Wednesday and Sunday. If it's not God out of a King James Bible, it don't enter my home; neither do we listen to it, neither do we follow it.

So my question—I have two. I'm a very general... I should have joined the army. I wanted to be an attorney for kids that when they are going through divorce with mom and dad, that they had their own attorney. Get your cup and go get in the car. Tell him to let you sit where you want to sit, and in five seconds, when we head back, you... he gets...

Rob West: Brandy, let's do this. Let's let you get squared away there, and then we'll get you back on. I so appreciate how committed you are and convicted you are about following God's way. And you are working hard and doing the Lord's work as you care for those sweet babies. But we'll let you get situated here and then come back to you.

Let me go down to Alabama and Dick. How can I help?

Dick: Yes, Rob. Thank you for your great program.

Rob West: Thank you.

Dick: I'd like to give a shout-out to Larry Burkett's program. My wife and I started that about 40 years ago, and we got out of debt and saved our first $10,000. We were exonerated!

Rob West: Wow!

Dick: Then we were successful to get our first $100,000, and we thought, "How great this program is!" But then he had a good course saying, "How much is enough?"

Rob West: Yes.

Dick: So we've accumulated some, and what we do is we take the proceeds off that every year and give it to ministry. So I didn't know if we should just liquidate the whole thing and give it to the ministries now, or just keep letting it grow every year and take the proceeds and give it to the ministry—because like killing the goose and the golden egg, I'm thinking in five years we've just about gave what we had in there, so it's been a blessing.

Rob West: Yeah. I love that. Yeah, so how much do you have accumulated in this giving account?

Dick: Uh, let's see... Well, it could be anywhere up to six figures.

Rob West: Okay, yeah. And where is it sitting?

Dick: We have it in some investment accounts...

Rob West: Okay.

Dick: ...under an umbrella like the Roth that we can take out without having to pay taxes. Now, we do do some qualified charitable distributions on what we have to... half—50% of it still, you know, being taxed.

Rob West: Yes. Yeah, so you have the ability to do up to more than $100,000 in qualified charitable distributions. It sounds like this is all in a traditional IRA, is that right?

Dick: Well, some of it's TSP, and some of it is Roth, and some of it's IRAs, yes, sir.

Rob West: Okay, got it. So you've got a mix. Yeah, I mean, as much as you can put into that traditional IRA, that's great. You know, I would just say, God has entrusted these resources to you, and for whatever portion you've decided to give away, I would let the Lord lead in that. I wouldn't hold it back because of necessarily the earnings potential. If the Lord gives you a clear direction and vision for where you want this money to go as you pray and think through that... I mean, think about the compounding effect of that money in eternity forever... versus sitting in there. I mean, as good as that 10 or 12 or 15% you might be getting on that portfolio, I would put forward that compounding in God's economy doesn't compare to that 12% a year.

And so, for me, it would be a matter of really discerning where that money wants—where the Lord wants you to give that money. Now, you may decide, given on the size of it, you know, I wouldn't want it to be more than 10% of your church's budget if that's where it's going. And if you're making a major gift to another ministry, I'd want to know that that's a ministry like maybe American Family Association that's stretching every dollar and really being good stewards of that. But as long as you're comfortable with this aligns with God's heart, it aligns with our passions, and we believe they're wise stewards of the resources entrusted to them as a ministry, then I would say once the Lord gives you that clarity, let's get that into God's economy right now. Let's not try to hold hold it back for a 10 or 12% return. Does that make sense?

Dick: It does. So are you saying probably liquidate the whole amount and give it now instead of...

Rob West: Yeah, I mean, I think assuming the Lord gives you real clarity on where you want that to go, if that's money you're planning to give away anyway, the fields are white unto harvest. And so why not get that into the kingdom immediately if you've already essentially given it away in your mind? I don't see necessarily, apart from you just still waiting and discerning from the Lord where to give it, once that's clear, I don't think there's any reason to hold it back at that point.

Dick: At our death, we were going to give it to each one of the kids, and they had to give it to the ministries of their choice. But is there not Ron Blue, who has a great guide about which ministries are the most effective? Is that being selfish, praying for effective ministry?

Rob West: No, I don't think so at all. I think that's part of good stewardship, you know, just asking where should this go, and what ministries are stewarding well what they have. You could check out Charity Navigator, you could check out the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. But Charity Navigator provides a rating on every ministry if you want to just understand their financial health and accountability and a whole host of factors. Apart from that, the National Christian Foundation that Ron and Larry started could be a great resource to you to advise you. You could go to ncfgiving.com.

And you could have the kids help give it away today! You don't have to wait until you all pass away. Maybe you involve them in directing a portion of this. But I would say, if you've decided to give it away and the Lord makes it clear where He wants you to give it, don't hold back. Let's get that into God's economy and let's see what He does with it. And you get the blessing right now, not only tax-wise, but even bigger than that, the joy of seeing it used as a part of God's grand story.

Dick, I hope that helps. Thanks for your call, my friend. We're grateful for you. Call anytime.

Well, folks, that's going to do it for us. Big thanks to my team today: Devin, and Patty, and Pat, and Taylor, and Jim, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible. Make sure you check out faithfi.com/give if you'd like to support the ministry; we'd certainly be grateful. And then come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.

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