Transcript

Jenna Ellis: Rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator

 : Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio.

Jenna Ellis: I love talking about the things of God. Because of truth and the biblical worldview, the U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect. The rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you. And God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment. M in time.

 : This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.

Alex McFarland asks whether America is under the judgment of God

Jenna Ellis: Good morning. It is Friday, May 1st. So happy May we are finally, getting through spring and into summer, which is, one of my favorite times of the year. I love, spring, and especially here in Florida. It's just beautiful. And I love the thunderstorms and being out in God's creation. It's just incredible. And you know, we're. We're going to be talking about a sobering topic this morning, with my very special guest, Alex McFarland, who of course is, the host of Exploring the Word here on American Family Radio Network and also, has Alex McFarland Ministries and, is an apologist, meaning he of course, that he advocates for the truth of the gospel of Christ. And you know, as we've been looking, over the last several years, but especially just the last few months and even this last week, when we look at the political violence, the moral confusion, the division, disasters, institutional distrust, the lack of morality in society, we ask, and have to answer the questions of where is America going? After our 250th anniversary that we're celebrating this summer, we need to pose this question. Are these just cycles of history or is this something deeper that is happening? Is America under the judgment of God? And that is a very serious question. And I remember talking to, Pastor Jon MacArthur, well before he passed away, when I was spending so much time out in LA county, as one of his attorneys in the midst of COVID and fighting for the essential church, I actually had a lot of time to spend with him and his family, which was an amazing opportunity to just sit at the feet of an amazing, pastor and theologian and ask some of these questions. and what were his thoughts? And you know, he was talking about judgment and in terms of, the, the end of all things and revelation, that it does kind of go in cycles, but it's because obviously of the sovereignty of God. And so if God intends for America to persist, then we will come out of this cycle with revival, with renewal, with a, spiritual enrichment. And we will see a turning point. and if America does not persist, which doesn't mean of course that we're at revelation in the end of all things, it could just be that the great American experiment is almost at a close. That could be part of God's judgment and that could be a cycle that, is at the end. And so the cycles of history, as they go, are according to God's sovereignty. And at the time that he has appointed since the beginning of all things, and only he knows this, we will see the final cycle of history and the beginning of the end of all things. But, but we don't have to get to eschatology, that whole, ah, theological framework of, of the end of all things to ask and answer the question of whether or not America is under the judgment of God. And so, let's welcome in Alex McFarland.

Jenna Fischer: If we lose our moral foundation, we will lose America

And Alex, I want to ask you first to kind of set up this discussion. When we talk about judgment in this context, not the final judgment or the final judgment of, individuals after, death. And you know, that final judgment, we talk about judgment of nations. What does that actually mean in scripture?

Alex McFarland: Well, well, Jenna, thanks for having me on. And thank you for the insightful, thoroughly biblical way that you analyze and comment on our culture. I know I speak for millions of listeners when I say how much we benefit from your, your commentary and your voice. And you know, like, like you, I am deeply concerned for our country. I love America. I've traveled, outside of America rather extensively and I always want to get home. And you know, this is our 250th birthday since the American Revolution, the Declaration, the drafting and adoption of the Constitution. And a lot of people over the years warned that if we lose our moral foundation, that we will lose the country. In fact, you know, the Constitution, this is what is lost on so many people. that many left wing academics and officials, they just don't get this. Our government and our laws only work for a people with a moral compass. That moral compass being the Judeo Christian moral code. It's the law of truth written on every heart. But God's law written on every heart, comports with the Ten Commandments as found in, you know, Exodus 20. And so Jenna, let me say this. Proverbs 14:12 says there, there is a way that seems right to a man, the end of which are the ways of death in general, when we, you know, flaunt the laws of God, we reject truth, we acknowledge no moral guardrails. And we live for sin. there are repercussions. I think a society, crosses over a line. Maybe it's an invisible line that only God knows. When that is, they're just the repercussions of sin and then the overt intentional judgment and punishment of God. And if we're not there yet, we're very, very close. You know, Jenna, I travel and I preach about revival, but I halfway feel like the day might come, if we don't turn around, that I'm going to maybe be more like Jonah and preach judgment, you know, yet 40 days and Nineveh will be overthrown. I love America. It pains me to see us digress further and further down the slippery slope of sin and reprobation. But I just don't see conviction, repentance and intercession among Christians. And we need a move of God's Holy Spirit or this nation is doomed.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah, and it's so well said and sobering because we have of course a discipline in Scripture and the consequences of sin not just for individuals, but also for nations. And this is why, it's so important that we have moral and upright leaders. Because this isn't just about the individual. And of course, individuals can be saved and and be spared certain consequences of sin. But we also live in a nation where we suffer the consequences of our civil leaders. And and when, you know, when Romans 1 talks about God giving, giving us over to our sinful desires, when we suppress the truth and unrighteousness, that is also a wake up call, I think, for nations, not just for the individual. Because that can happen on a national scale as well as just an individual, right?

Alex McFarland: Mm That's true. Well, you know, in logic there's something called the law of composition. The parts make up the whole. And if the parts are bad, the whole is bad. If the parts are good, the whole is good. And you know, talking with thought leaders like yourself or like George Barna or you know, Jon Stonestreet of the Colson center, you know, I interface with a lot of Christian speakers and writers and researchers and thinkers and what, what's troubling. And I don't mean to be doom and gloom, because look, our, our Savior can resurrect the dead and he can breathe life and revival into a prodigal nation. And that's what I believe. Lamentations 3, says that God's mercies are new every morning. And it is by the Lord's compassion that we're not consumed, therefore the righteous hope in him. So I don't mean to be doom and gloom, but there is a growing realization that in our prosperity and our opulence. And the west is very wealthy. I mean, any generation of world history would look at the lives we live in the west and they would have awe and envy for the posh lives we live. But in our prosperity, we've truly forgotten God. Like Abraham Lincoln warned about, you know, intoxicated by unbroken success. We have forgotten God, said Lincoln, too proud to pray to the God who made us. And the fact is, you know, America has been blessed, but with blessing comes obligation. The most fundamental of which is the obligation to be grateful. You know, not to be hedonistic, but to be all the more, sanctified. Right. And so, you know, I'm concerned for our nation because like, if you go on forums and, and you know, subreddits, Jenna, as I'm sure you know, the absolute contempt people seem to have for God, righteousness, moral truth, people of good faith and humble godliness, I, mean, it's like Romans says, you know, despisers of that which is good. That seems to be the increasing demographic, in which we're surrounded.

Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And it just, it just evidences how much we need revival in this country and how much it's not just a matter of, of a religious focus or a, an expression of, you know, civil society needing to be moral because we want to pass certain policy prerogatives or priorities or legislation or, you know, all of these are things which are inherently good and that's, that's all fine, but when we're talking about whether our country is under judgment and if it's not, then it could get there. this is something far deeper and it's. And judgment doesn't necessarily mean that then there's no recovery from that. But you know, I've heard a lot of pastors over the years, Alex, talk about how America as a nation is not specifically mentioned in the book of Revelation. And I don't think that necessarily means that America won't exist at the end of all things. I mean, there are certainly nations that aren't necessarily mentioned for whatever reason. and yet it just is a point to say we can't presume that just because we rightly believe ourselves to be the greatest nation that's ever existed, we're founded on the Judeo Christian premise. we, you know, have all of these protected rights that come from God our creator. I mean, all of the things that we could talk about for hours, that are, implicit in this nation. That doesn't mean that we have a spiritual right to be free from God's judgment. If we as a nation and our leaders are denying truth and suppressing truth and unrighteousness. And that's a, that's a very sobering thought as well.

Alex McFarland: and I've heard a lot of people say, well, America is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, therefore we're, you know, we won't be here. Well, anyway, obviously the North American continent will be here, because it's part of the globe. and now some people, they extrapolate with Daniel 7:4, and it talks about, an eagle or eagle's wings, you know, protecting Israel. And that's also alluded to in Revelation 12, verse 4. and they'll say, ah, ah, you know, that's the American eagle. Well, you know, I, I don't know about that because, you know, the NewSong Testament was completed 1700 years before the, the birth of America. I think America will be here. I mean, I personally. And although nobody knows the day or the hour, I just don't think it'll be another quarter millennia before Jesus comes back. In fact, I think that world events, not the least of which Jenna, is just the global, I'm not just going to say the breakdown of morality, but the intentional. This is due to the LGBTQ trans movement in concert with globalism and Marxism. But for 50 years, there's been a well orchestrated, well funded, well marketed, unrelenting push to tear down moral boundaries, to tear down, cultural boundaries, and to move us toward a globalist, relativistic, one world government and one world society. And you, you know, combine that with the fact that, I mean, the planet is wired up, we're in a global surveillance state that, all the scenarios predicted in Revelation 4: through 20 could come to pass. And then you look at the explosive wealth generated by China. probably the biggest market for Rolls Royces right now is China. In fact, this year, Rolls Royce will sell $6,001.2 million Rolls Royce cars in China. That's amazing. Now why am I bringing this up? China has such wealth. China is so aligned with Russia, and there will be, for oil and for other reasons, an attack on Israel by, a concert of nations that include China, Russia and nations of the Arabian Peninsula. And what I'm saying is that there are End time scenarios that have been in the Bible for centuries, that Even, you know, 75 to 100 years ago would have been unthinkable.

Alex McFarlane: Abortion is the main reason America is in decline

And yet here we are and in America and the west, there's been the breakdown of the family. There is just a $39 trillion debt and growing. So, I don't know what America is going to be exactly, in the end of time, but unless there is a radical turning back to God, we're just going to be this futile nation that's a shell of itself, former self. In fact, we are that hollowed out shell almost already. But, but I gotta say this, Jenna. if indeed there is the overt judgment of God and God's preserving hand is withheld and you know, it's just varying degrees of decline. I think the main reason is abortion and I know Roe versus Wade was overturned, but Jenna, it is estimated that this year 832 million federal dollars will be spent for abortions. And it was horrible, an humbling privilege. I spoke in the Roe vs. Wade courtroom four years ago on the subject of what is a human being. And it was, I was honored to do that. But even Christians, I mean professed Christians that zealously argue with me about a woman's right to an abortion and the overTurning of Roe vs Wade is withholding health care from women. we're just not even a nation that seems to have much of a conscience or the ability to think critically. And I mean there are a lot of things wrong with the country. But I've become kind of a single issue voter, Jenna, because for a lot of reasons. But a nation that murders the unborn is committing suicide morally, socially and definitely spiritually.

Jenna Ellis: And that's how we can see. Yeah, that's. And we got to take a break here. but we'll come back with Alex, Matt McFarland to continue to talk about this. But yeah, that's, that's exactly how we can see the lack of priority, the lack of moral uprightness is when a society does not care for the the least among us and is willing to commit the atrocity of abortion over and over and over. So we will be right back with more with Alex McFarlane. Foreign.

Jenna Ellis welcomes Alex McFarland back to American Family Radio

 : Welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.

Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And I'm here with my Special guest Alex McFarland, who's the co host of Exploring the Word right here on American Family Radio Network and also has, Alex McFarland Ministries. And you should Follow him across social media platforms. And we're talking about the idea of judgment, in Scripture and applied to nations and whether or not America is experiencing divine judgment or just living in a fallen world. Because obviously even the most moral and upright society is still imperfect. We still have to deal with the consequences of sin. But like Christians, like the individual, we can do our best to be more and more like Christ even in the midst of the fallen world because there is a redemptive plan and, and we can, through selecting and preferring Christians as our leaders, thus have a Holy Spirit led government, if we actually had sincere Christians who lived it in their public and civic lives, not just maybe in the privacy of their own homes or you know, saying that they're Christians but not taking that into their work for civil government. And so when we talk about revival, Alex, and we talk about as you mentioned before the break, you know, our society is is clearly lacking moral uprightness when we have the atrocity of abortion every day. And that's even a question, in 2026, with all of the advancements of medical technology, with all just the knowledge of, of the atrocity of abortion, when we talk about revival, repentance and that passage in Scripture, even that President Trump read in America reads through the Bible, which you and I both participated in, with him, when you know, a nation returns to God and calls on his name, the Bible tells us in Scripture in both the Old and NewSong Testaments, to be a moral and upright society to advance law and have structure of justice, do justice, love, mercy, walk humbly with your God. I mean this is the admonishment for civil government. And so when we're talking about a nation, not just individuals going back to church and we tend to focus on the individual when we talk about revival as a nation. What does that look like?

Alex McFarland: Oh, great question, great question. And let me cue it up by humbly saying that I'm ah, presently touring the country and growing and we're working on this, well, well into the end of 2027. It's called revive Us. And our ministry, we don't charge anything. But for communities where churches come together and they link arms, we provide an event preparation manual, how they can start prayer teams and it can be small. But Jenna, if I could mention my website, which is Alex McFarland.com and my tour, schedule, we are taking the Revive Us event all over America to help people understand what are the Principles of a move of God. Well, let me just say this. when God is moving in his mercy, when he is stirring amongst his people, you'll know it by several things, one of which is prayer and an intercession. You know, James 4, verse 2 says, you have not because you ask not. And so I want to encourage people. If, like Jenna and myself and all of us at afr, if you're very concerned for the future of the country, the souls of people, if you're concerned about the incremental Muslim takeover of many of our cities and regions, then we need to pray and we need to ask God to move. I know I quote a lot of Bible verses, but, hey, you know, God's word is the source and the roadmap. Luke 18, verse 1. Jesus said that we should always pray and not give up, not. Not faint. And so it is time to get on our knees and pray. And that's the pathway to revival. But then the other thing, Jenna, and this is so huge, and I gotta say, I've seen it. It's unity in the body of Christ. Now, folks, if you want to see the power and the presence and the mercy of God just unleashed, then get together with different kinds of Christians and pray together. And let that prayer focus on the worship and the adoration of Jesus. And Jenna, when I talk about unity in the body of Christ, you know, when I first became a Christian in the late 80s, there was a really bad word. It was called, ecumenical. And ecumenism back then seemed to mean compromise. Oh, we're all just universalists. And doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you're sincere. I'm not talking about that at all. Not at all. But there are some core truths of Christianity on which we all agree, regardless of the denomination. And I realize, we all have our closely held convictions. But here's the deal. If somebody believes Jesus is the son of God, the one and only savior, and Christ alone on the cross of Calvary, he paid for our sins, and it's through faith in Jesus plus nothing, minus nothing. Faith in Jesus is how we are reconciled to God. Well, then we're family. Now, we might disagree on a lot of other things, but if we believe in, the son of God who shed his blood and rose again, then. Then we need to unify. And I realize, let me. Let me. Let me say to some of my Baptist brethren out there, you might have to hold your nose and you say, oh, yeah, but we don't agree on all the gifts of the Holy Spirit. And we don't agree on eschatology. And, I'm younger than somebody else is older. I get, I know. Believe me, I know. But we have got to begin to link arms with brothers and sisters in the body of Christ. And I'm not talking about theological compromise, but Jenna, feel free to disagree, but when Christians of 31 flavors, we come together and we pray and we can agree on this. We just want to worship Jesus. I promise you, folks, I've seen it in hundreds of cities. The Holy Spirit will begin to move.

Jenna Ellis: Well, and I do agree with you, Alex, especially in this sense, because, you know, we can partner as Christians. We can even partner with, you know, with the feminists who are for only women in women's sports, right? And on that goal we are aligned. And so when it comes to spiritual things, obviously we need to be a lot more careful. But this is why, you know, I even have some, you know, Catholics on this program, even though we're an, evangelical network. But, you know, but for those who are speaking, truth, and even though, you know, we disagree as, as Protestants and evangelicals with, the greater Catholic doctrine, I believe that individual Catholics can and are saved and are, brothers and sisters in Christ. And so this isn't about ecumenicism. And I agree with you. It's not just to say that fundamentals of the faith don't matter, but that we can't just have this kind of wide, sweeping, well, you are in X denomination category. So therefore we are imputing to you everything that that denomination we, we think believes. Right? We have to go on kind of a case by case basis. And we do need to, at least recognize, I mean, even, even, those in, in the Jewish faith that are not saved through the finished work of Christ, they don't accept, Christ as Messiah who. So they're clearly not saved. They at least have an understanding through, the Old Testament and the, the, what started out as the Judeo and then the Judeo Christian worldview. They have much more in common with us in terms of, where we have come from in a moral and upright society than the Muslims do or then, you know, the secular godless populace do, and the Communists. And so I think it's a case by case basis and it really makes sense. And so when we talk about, the morality of this nation, I mean, this is where President Trump in his faith sector of the White House, I mean, there are a lot of people that he brings in that I disagree with theologically on a lot of different issues. But overall, when you have Christians praying for a president in the White House, that overall is a good thing. That, and that is something I'd much rather have that going on than whatever Kamala Harris would have brought into the White House.

Alex McFarland: Oh, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Jenna. I had the privilege of, interviewing, Allen Parker Jr. Who was the attorney most responsible for the overturning of Roe versus Wade. And we talked about how Kamala Harris toured the nation. And she would always speak on, the rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. She would never say life. And yet the Fifth and 14th Amendments, you know, have the constitutional protection of life. We, you know, even, the renowned atheist academic Christopher Hitchens, he was a friend of mine.

Hitchens was a passionate pro lifer

We, oh my goodness, we tried to get him saved. And where he landed spiritually, I don't ultimately know, but he and I were emailing up until two days before he died. But Hitchens was a passionate pro lifer.

Alex McFarland: And even an atheist, he said, we have legal protection for the unborn because the Constitution, one of the inalienable rights that no one can legitimately take away is the right to life.

Jenna Ellis: And those are the people then that we can truly partner with. And we're coming up against the break. We only have a couple of minutes.

Alex Martin asks what Christians should do in a culture under spiritual judgment

And so I want to ask you this question before I have to go. Alex, you know, when we're talking about, is America under judgment, maybe the better question isn't just, is it under judgment? Is the nation under judgment? But how should we live if it is? And the challenge of course, is personal repentance, knowing that we are in, a right relationship with Christ, local church engagement, living out our faith publicly. And. And so, what is your response with what Christians should actually do in a culture like this? Whether we are under spiritual judgment or just under non Christian leaders, at least you know, some of them. And, the entire Democrat party, of course, is rejecting the truth of God. how do we live in the midst of this?

Alex McFarland: Wow. Good, good question. Hey, let me quote Jonathan Edwards, the famed, NewSong England minister of the first Great Awakening, one of the early presidents of Princeton, Jonathan Edwards, said, I go forth to preach with two propositions in mind. First, that everyone should give their heart and life to Christ. Secondly, even if no one gives their heart to Christ, I will give him mine. And so, folks, let me just say that, being salt and light and every day with undiminished enthusiasm to get up and live for Jesus Christ and to understand these might be hard times. But these are the times that we've been given. And I mean, I just think it's to rejoice, to understand that every day until we get to heaven, we're on mission for Christ. We really are. And there is always the hope that God in his great mercy will bless America. I'll do this in a minute

Jenna Ellis: and we gotta leave it there. Alex. I'm so sorry. We're already up against the break. But you know, amen to all of that. And you know, we are born in a moment, that is God's sovereign plan for our lives. If you are listening to this program, then you are still alive and God has a purpose, a plan and a ministry for you. And it is not an accident that you were born in this specific moment on this specific time frame so that you can proclaim the truth of the gospel of Christ wherever, you can. And that really is how we should look live. Regardless of whether America as a whole is, is a revival or a return to Christ, we can still live as God designed. So, Alex, thanks so much and we will be right back with more.

Jenna Ellis asks Calvin Robinson whether America is facing divine judgment

 : welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.

Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. And we are still talking about this question of what whether America is as a nation is under divine judgment. As we see throughout Scripture, it is not just a God does not just judge evildoers, does not just judge the wicked, does not just judge us after, we die. And there is of course, that process in Scripture of the final judgment. And then of course, as we look to the end of all things in the book of Revelation and the final judgment, there's still this question of whether the nation right now is facing the consequences of not being a moral and upright society in many ways. and if that is simply a result of consequences of our actions and policy and leadership, over the last several decades as a country, or whether it signals more about divine judgment. And so, let's welcome in Calvin Robinson, who is a, commentator on a lot of these things, a priest, and also has a brand new book I'm really excited to read, called the Silent Jihad Exposing the Islamification of the West. And Calvin, I think this is such a timely book for so many reasons, but it really ties into our conversation here because as you mentioned, if Christians don't outlaw Islam, Islam will outlaw Christians. And this is part of the consequences, potentially of our actions in allowing Islam to invade America. But before we even get that far. How do you view, our current posture of being basically a godless, populist, secular, ah, pluralistic society with obviously pockets of Christian truth. but overall, do you think that America is under divine judgment?

Calvin Robinson: Wow. Big question to start with, Jenna. I think all these things are relative. So bearing in mind, I'm coming from Great Britain, which has been a Christian country for over a thousand years until relatively recently, and has all of a sudden what feels like overnight dropped the faith, stopped praying, become secular, and as a result been taken over by Islam. Then I come over to America. I've been here, what, two years now, and to me it's refreshing because to me I see Christianity everywhere in the small details. Just, just going about your daily life. You can go into any coffee shop in a major city. It doesn't matter if it's one of the ones with the gay flag outside or not. You can go into any coffee shop and you'll hear people speaking about Jesus openly. And that's something that we've lost back in the home, in the motherland. But, you can be stuck in traffic and the truck in front of you will have a Bible verse on it randomly. Or you can go to a restaurant, whether it's in and out or chick fil a and you get Bible quotes on your, on your food packaging. That would never, ever, ever, ever happen in Britain. So we've lost so much. So when I come over here, I think, oh, actually there's still lots of remnants of the faith here. And I happen to live in, Grand Rapids, which is a heavily Reformed area, so there are lots of Christian communities here too. But I do see your point in that things are moving towards the secular and away from Christendom, and that's never a good thing. So maybe it is just that America is a few years behind where Britain and the rest of Europe is. Who knows? But what I do know is that God tells us this in the Bible. He. He gives us these lessons. He says, you know, we have a choice. We have free will. We can worship him or not. We can love him or not. But if we don't, we're essentially turning our backs on Him. And he is a just God, but He's a wrathful God. And what that means is if we turn our backs on him, we are cursing ourselves. It's not necessarily that he curses us, but it's that we are. We are asking for a curse upon ourselves. And we can hear that in both the Old and the NewSong Testament. In the Old Testament, we hear in, what is it, Deuteronomy, that the idea that foreigners will be living amongst you, they'll gain, they'll become stronger and stronger and they will eventually rule over you. You know, he goes into detail about, you know, they'll lend you money, you won't lend them money. They'll be the head, you'll be the tail. And then in the NewSong Testament, we learn through Romans that the Apostle Paul writes about this divine judgment where God stops restraining humanity from the consequences of our own desires. And he says, you'll be handed over to your lusts. He will give you over to your desires. And it's a kind of a message that if we desire a lust after sinful things, eventually God is going to just give us over to those things. So it's on us to repent, to turn our backs on sin and to turn towards him, to strive towards holiness, to try to become a saint, that's on us. He will help us. Of course he will. And we can't do anything without Him. But we have to make that decision to participate in what he is offering towards us.

Jenna Ellis: Amen. And you know, in your reflection, Calvin Robinson, about how America is perhaps a few years behind Great Britain, that's actually encouraging in this sense that, you know, it's not too late, for America to turn back and to have a revival because God's character is patient, just and merciful. I mean, even in, you know, Romans 1 is, as you quoted it, I mean, you know, God, often will, will delay the consequences and delay, his judgment as long as possible. And but eventually of course, his character and nature is one of the total righteousness of perfection, of truth. And so he does have to punish, the evildoers. And, and we see that. And so, you know, when we're looking at the state of America right now, and this is where I think your book is so timely that we are allowing this not just parallel legal system of Sharia law that is totally unconstitutional. you know, all of these other ways that we can talk about Islamic, but when we talk about the ideology, because Islam is not, favorable to Christians. It's not this coexist bumper sticker that the left would like to suggest. And I think you're absolutely right, that if Christians are just allowing Islam to invade America, eventually that will result in outlawing Christianity. And we've seen signs of that even now in some of the ways that the left has tried to target Christians and say that we can't exercise our Faith. Thankfully, the Supreme Court has stepped in so far, where needed. But, where do you think this is going with the Islamification of not just America, but the west as a whole?

Calvin Robinson: Yeah, I think you're right to raise this alarm, so to speak, because a lot of Americans don't seem to know how pernicious Islam is. And because it's such a big country, and people believe in freedom, they kind of believe in the freedom that anyone can do whatever they want as long as they're not bothering me. The problem is eventually they will be bothering you. And we can see this in any Western country where Islam has invaded. Look at Great Britain again as an example, where all the major cities, Mohammedanism is now the predominant faith. Christianity is no longer the permanent faith for the first time ever. And so what does that mean in practice? Well, it means that Christians street preachers are being arrested for proclaiming the gospel, for literally quoting from the Gospel. In fact, politicians across Europe have been arrested for quoting from the Bible because it may cause offense towards Muhammadans. Now that's a problem because that means that we have a blasphemy law that is an Islamic blasphemy law and is against Christianity. Whereas we should either be in favor of Christian blasphemy laws or against all blasphemy laws. Right. We either have equality for all faiths or we have, a preference for the Christian faith. But we cannot allow for preference for the Muhammadan faith because that will undermine us. We believe that Jesus Christ is the truth, therefore everyone should be able to proclaim his truth at all times, in all places. And the moment that the Mohammedans get into any kind of critical mass, and I don't mean they don't necessarily need to be majority, but a critical mass of around 6.5% of the population, once that happens, then they get enough political power through lobbying and pressure of, being a so called minority that people tend to bend over to their will. And we, you know, in 26 states across this country, Islam is already the fastest growing faith. So in the majority of the faiths, Islam is growing faster than any other faith. That should worry every single Christian in this country. This is a Christian land and if we're not evangelizing, they are.

Jenna Ellis: Yes. And, you know, so, so well said.

2/3 of Americans are Christian. This is still a Christian country

And one of the things that you said, struck me as something Christians need to be bold about because we have embraced kind of this notion, this false notion of pluralism in our society and that we have to kind of treat if we want religious Freedom, then we have to treat all faiths sort of equally in terms of belief and practice. But you said something. If we're going to prefer a religion, we need to prefer the Christian faith. And more Christians need to stand up and actually say that and suggest that and say our laws need to be based on truth and the biblical Christian worldview. And we say that in a policy context, kind of. But because the left has been so diligent, frankly, in trying to confine Christians to only uttering the Bible as authoritative within the four walls of the church, we often don't use the Bible as being authoritative in the public square. And that needs to change. Right.

Calvin Robinson: So 2/3 of Americans are Christian. This is still a Christian country. But if all of those people voted in a Christian way, we would always have Christians governing over us. This country will be explicitly Christian, as you say, in the policy direction. And that matters because it's about love. It's not about this false idea of all ideas are equal and every faith can get you to heaven. And as long as you believe in a God or as long as you're a good person, that's not enough. As Christians, we believe there's one way to the Father and that's through the Son. We believe that the gate to heaven is a narrow gate. We believe the only way to salvation is through Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Therefore, if we are leaving people to worship false gods, idols, demons, then we are leading them towards damnation. That's not loving. the two greatest commandments are to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself. We're not loving our neighbor if we're damning them to hell. And so we should be encouraged. Every Christian in this land should be encouraging those, the few minority of people that aren't Christian to come to know Jesus. And I'm not saying we should subjugate, I'm not saying we should force them, because that's not the Christian way. It is the Mohammedan way. And once again, if it becomes a predominantly Mohammedan country, then we will be forced and subjugated and we'll have to pay the tax, the jizya. But in a Christian context, we encourage people. I mean, we lead people to Christ through the way that we live our lives. We try to live a life in Christ, but also we proclaim the gospel. We teach the good news of the Bible to people. And to do that, we have to say there is one truth, one universal, objective truth. And we know his name to be Jesus Christ.

Jenna Ellis: Amen. absolutely. And you Know, the whole point of having a civil society that recognizes the principles of religious freedom is so that we can go and evangelize, so that we can practice our faith, so that we can train up our children in the way they should go, says Proverbs, says when they're old they won't depart from it. It's so that we can preserve and protect the Christian way of life. I mean, we don't have all of these protections for our rights that our founders recognize come from God our Creator, so that we can go out and live a pluralistic society and say, well, let's recognize the dignity of Islam. I mean, that's not the point, that's not the purpose whatsoever. We have a civil government that protects the right of Christians to be able to, to live and work. And we have this, this whole perverted notion that somehow our Constitution demands pluralism. That just isn't there. If you take the whole context of the Declaration, the Constitution, the founding and everything we're celebrating in America 250, absolutely.

Calvin Robinson: I think we take it for granted when we hear these phrases such as one nation united under God. And whenever we see the word God, either directly implied or message or kind of in a reverential way used in any founding document, any policy, we kind of take it for granted that we're talking about the Christian God. But it's been such a long time now and we've been invaded by all different faiths and ideologies that people kind of think it's about their God or it's about a God, in general. And so we have to be very specific, ah, in the language that we use and inform people that we are talking about the one true living Christian God. And that's not to say that there can't be room for people of other faiths in a Christian land, but just that, we don't acknowledge their faith as true. And there's a distinction there that's important. So it's not about saying I, I hate you or, or I hate your God. It's but I love you and I want you to come, come to know my God, but I'm not forcing that upon you. And so if you're not there yet, that's, that's fine, but I won't change my policies, I won't change my, the way we govern based upon your beliefs, because we have ours. And if you're going to come and live in our land, you're going to take on board our beliefs too.

Jenna Ellis: absolutely. And you know, and There's a, there's a distinction in how we argue for this, from what Christians have unfortunately sanitized in the public square. Because, it's basically, you can argue your theology within the church, but don't you dare comment on politics. Don't you dare try to influence politics. Don't you dare say that, the Christian worldview should be the foundation and predicate for politics. But we're seeing the damage and the effect of that. And I think that is part of suppressing the truth and unrighteousness that leads, as we've been talking about throughout this conversation, to the consequences of sin and ultimately divine judgment. And so in just the last few minutes, we have, with you, Calvin Robinson.

Some Christians believe they can separate faith from politics through false separation

How do we correct that thinking among Christians, to be more bold, in the public square?

Calvin Robinson: Such an important question. Because the devil has convinced us that we, through this false idea of the separation of church and state that we m must see, separate our faith from our politics in some way, shape or form. No, our faith should dictate every element of our lives. And actually the separation of church and state, I think we've talked about it before, Jenna, but is obviously that the state cannot impede on the church. Now, the church should always impede on the state. It should provide a moral compass. But on an individual level, from person to person. What that means is we cannot say Christians stop being political, pastors stop being political, because politics are how we govern our lives. Lives. It's how we shape our society. It's who we are as a people and what we want to put forth of ourselves to the outside world. And so we have to do that with an explicitly Christian moral compass because we're going to use some form of morality. And so as Christians, we should surely want to choose a Christian morality. Therefore, if we're living in a country, we want it to be shaped by Christian truths. That means we have to have Christian politicians. That means we have to vote for Christian policies. Therefore, we have to be active as Christian Christians. We're not called to be separate from the world. We're called to be in the world, although not of the world. We're called to advance the kingdom in the here and now. That means we're active participants in society. We're not waiting for another kingdom. We are calling in the kingdom.