Transcript

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 : and welcome to the Doctor Nursemama Show Prescribing Hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

We live in a culture obsessed with extraordinary experiences

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you prescribing Hope for healthy families. And I am so optimistic and expectant about today's show. Today we are bringing you a big dose of hope and something that we all need. We all need to experience God. We live in a culture that is really obsessed with extraordinary experiences. And we're seeing this really change the way that companies even do businesses. People younger, generations, they don't want things as much as they want experiences and they're willing to spend their money on that. And we chase these peak moments in life, these once in a life lifetime experiences and viral moments and bucket list and spiritual mountaintops and that secret place that this influencer told you about that nobody's been there except for 4, 000 people follow them there afterwards and somehow Instagram does not meet reality. Social media trains us to believe that if something isn't dramatic, then maybe it's not meaningful. And we see people even re recording their engagement until they just get it just right. At the same time, many people find themselves exhausted and distracted and wondering, why does my faith feel so disconnected from my everyday life? We are facing an epidemic of distraction in the midst of all this. Our attention is fragmented, our schedules are way too busy, and many believers feel guilty because they're just not experiencing God in powerful ways every single day like they once did. Maybe they think about a conference, a camp, a mission, trip, a major life event where God just felt more extraordinary than he does in the everyday. But what if. What if I told you that spiritual maturity is actually formed in the middle of the very ordinary? What if God is most often shaping us during the mundane that becomes miraculous during the school drop offs, driving to work, family dinners, daily routines, bedtime, and those seemingly just boring moments that make up our life. Today, we are joined by three generations of a family whose name has become synonymous with helping believers recognize and respond to God's presence. We have the Blackaby's on with us today, and, I am personally very thrilled about this because Experiencing God, the Bible study was something that I took when I was in high school, and it was very instrumental in the foundation of my faith. Today we have Richard Blackaby, who has spent decades carrying forward the legacy of his father, Dr. Henry Blackaby, whose landmark study Experiencing God transformed the spiritual lives of millions around the world, just including mine. Richard serves as presidents of president of Blackaby Ministries International. He has authored or co authored more than 40 books and Bible studies. Joining him is his son, and we are talking to Mike Blackaby, a church planter in Victoria, British Columbia, with a PhD in worldview and apologetics. Mike has devoted much of his ministry to helping people engage faith in practical and culturally relevant ways. And we are also joined by Daniel Blackaby, author, speaker, cultural commentator, founder of the Collision Ministry. And Daniel specializes in helping Christians thoughtfully engage culture, the arts, and the next generation while cultivating authentic spiritual formation, which we are all in need of. And together they have written Experiencing God in Everyday Life, A Journey towards spiritual maturity, a study that invites believers to discover God's presence not only in extraordinary moments, but in the rhythms and habits of everyday life. So to all the Blackaby boys, welcome, welcome, welcome. I feel like my chat challenge is going to be keep your name straight, because my kids, my four kids tell me I can't keep their name straight. So I'm just going to apologize in advance. If I say, if I address you incorrectly, just know that, that is the everyday reality of my life. But I'm so happy to have you here. And Richard, let's start with you just as the patriarch here. What does it mean to be sitting here with such a rich family legacy of faith? I think that's such an encouragement to us all.

Richard Blackaby: Yeah, I was very fortunate and blessed to have the parents. I did. my dad was the greatest man of God ever knew. I have the greatest respect for my mother. and they handed down to me a legacy of faith. Their parents were all very strong Christians. Their grandparents were all strong Christians. So I had this enormous legacy passed down to me, which I didn't deserve. but I embraced it. And then the big challenge for me was I didn't want to be the. The generation that dropped the ball. And so I had to faithfully manage to hand that down to my kids. I've got. We have a daughter that's the youngest of the three, and and so to be able to write this with my two sons and to hear my dad's wisdom coming out of their mouths just was to me just the greatest thing. I, I've written a lot of books with my dad and I thought that was probably the greatest privilege I could ever have. But I think in many ways it was even more enjoyable riding with my, My sons because I was just tagging along with my dad, but. But now my sons are following along with me. And And so yeah, there's all kinds of really special dynamics that. That occurred throughout the whole writing of this product.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Mike, what was it like for you being third in the generation? That could be a lot of pressure to hold up that family mantra of the name. But what a blessing. What has it been like for you to be a third generation carrying on this heritage of faith?

Mike Blackaby: Yeah, it's It's been really special. like. Like dad said, just the. The opportunity to collaborate together was a lot of fun. And I think, I think Daniel and I, and our sister would all say we never felt a pressure put on us growing up to. To have. To be part of that legacy necessarily or to. Or to ever become a writer or to follow in those footsteps. But it was lived, out and dis. Played for us in such a way that we wanted to, We had to face our own fears and you know, figure out what God was calling us each individually to. But to have. To have written together and to do ministry together. It really is pretty crazy to look back on and think how did we, how did we get here? Because there's a lot of fear involved of ever wanting to do this or never. Never set out to be a writer, any of those things. And so we feel very, very blessed to have that opportunity, and thankful for parents and generations that that went before us that they didn't really pressure us to. You have to do this because this is, this is what I did. But, but really encouraged us to. To find our own relationship with God and and displayed theirs in such a way that. That we wanted. That we wanted to be a part of it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, you know, Mike, it reminds me because, here at American Family association, it was founded by Don Wildmon and then taken over by his son Tim Wildmon. And now his sons Wesley and Walker are taking on that third generation. And it is really encouraging to see a heritage of faith. And you know, for me, I am the first in a generation of cycle breakers for generational trauma. And now I'm seeing my children grow up and become adults, and my oldest daughter has stepped into ministry with me. And that is so encouraging to me to be at the beginning of it, seeing families that have sustained that for a long time. And Daniel, I'd love to hear your experience because I'm sure that you will probably follow up and say that, you know, affirm that your family is entirely perfect, that there's never any conflict, that everything just goes wonderfully and you're just as perfect, you know, and in private as you are in your public lives. Is that. Is that where we're going with this now?

Dr. Jessica Peck: Yeah.

Daniel Blackaby: Well, I'd say I probably had it the easiest because Mike's, about a year and a half, two years older. So I just let him go ahead of me and make all the mistakes and, you know, let my. My parents sort of work out the kinks with parenting. And then I came along and I was, you know, I had it figured out, so it was easy for that. But, no, this. This has been amazing for us. I think even, obviously working on this with, my brother and my father. Just that relational, dynamic. And even the videos we filmed for this, which we might get into at some point here, filmed, where Mike does ministry. And we had all of our family with us for that trip. So my kids were able to watch us, filming those videos. So even bringing in the next, generation. But I know for me, just kind of doing the study, working on this material, just shortly after, a couple of years after the passing of, our grandfather Henry Blackaby, and just the opportunity, I think, to reflect on his ministry. And obviously we had a great relationship with him. I was able to live close by where he lived, for the final years of his life. but just the chance to really reflect on all that God did in his life and hear so many stories after his passing of people that were, you know, their lives were literally changed forever based on an encounter they had with Him. And so I know for all of us in different ways, I think this journey that God has had us on with this study has just been an amazing opportunity to reflect on some of that legacy again. Our family obviously isn't perfect, some more imperfect than others

Dr. Jessica Peck: But I think there's stories there. I feel like there's some stories.

Dr. Jessica Peck: There's baggage.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, don't we all have that?

The Blackaby's talk about experiencing God in everyday life in their new book

Well, Richard, I want to talk about experiencing God in everyday life. I know many of our listeners will be familiar with the Bible study Experiencing God. And I'll tell you, I was even in Experiencing God the Musical. So that was made into a musical. I sang the Potter's Hand. Thank you very much. Still very, very beautiful songs. Still love that. And my kids make fun of me a little because sometimes I will pull out the cd. Yes, I still have a CD and a CD player and I will listen to that. But tell us about this new vision for experiencing God in everyday life and how the work of your father Henry is continuing to unfold in the work of you and your sons.

Richard Blackaby: Yeah, that by the way, I, I was in Brazil in February and they sang the entire musical in Portuguese for me. And so that was beautiful. Wow.

Richard Blackaby: but I, Experiencing God, it did so many things. It really impacted the Christian world. It shook it. every denomination was impacted by it and it did it in a number of ways. But but one of those ways was just that it told ordinary people that, that almighty gods that work around your life too, where you go to work, where you raise your kids, just the ordinary times of life that be ready because almighty God can all of a sudden just reveal that he's at work right there. And so we heard many, many stories of God just radically transforming people. And of course one of the, the realities of that was that, that God is. He. He does God sized things. And so and so we saw God doing God sized things in people's lives. They'd start orphanages, they start all kinds of ministries and ch. Other things. but, but one of the things that kind of an unintended consequence of that was that people began to expect God, to do the spectacular all the time. And and then they get disappointed. They'd wonder if they had some problem or sin in their life if God wasn't speaking in spectacular ways. And of course you think about Moses, and all of a sudden he has an account with God in a burning bush and his life is forever changed. And many people would say, well boy, you know, I wish I haven't had a burning bush in my life. I, maybe I'm just a third rate Christian. But, but we would say, well Moses only had one. You know, even Moses, only God only used that method once. but most of the time it just said God spoke to Moses. God told Moses and doesn't even tell us how because in the Bible that's not what matters is how God spoke, it's that he spoke. And and so this book, ah, so all the stuff and experiencing God is great. And God continues to use it powerfully. But this book sort of fills in some of the gaps. And it says, hey, if God's going to speak to you through a burning bush or on a mountaintop, hallelujah, that's awesome. And it can be life changing. But most of the time you won't be in front of a burning bush, you won't be on a mountaintop. You'll be going to work, you'll be trying to put your kids to bed at night, you'll be washing dishes. You know, you'll be doing just ordinary stuff. And most of your life is spent in the ordinary. don't, don't think that. But if you start to see God there too, then all of a sudden you'll be seeing God all the time. you can't always, you don't have to trudge up to the top of a mountain before you have another encounter with God. They're great when you do, but you can also have an encounter with God as you go to work, as you tuck your preschooler into bed at night, as you're just driving to work and just suddenly just, just commuting with God as you go. And, and so that's really a lot of what this book is about. It's, that's why we call it Experiencing God in Everyday life, because that's where we spend most of our time in everyday life. And God is just as present there. He's just as real, just as powerful in the everyday moments as he is in the spectacular mountaintop experiences as well.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Richard, I'm so glad that you and your sons have been so faithful to answer the call of God in your life, to give this message for the moment and the, the principles of God's truth that we're in experiencing Go still there. But culture has changed a lot. When I think back to, being in that musical, that was before cell phones, before smartphones, before social media. And as someone in a science profession, for me, as a nurse practitioner, I'm really concerned about the way that social media is training our brains to prefer novelty, to think. We need something new and it needs to change every few seconds. And that is just not the way that God works. God is the same. He is steady, he is unchanging. And that is a message that we need in this moment today. And when we come back, I have so many more questions about experiencing God and this new way that you've delivered it and the book that you and your sons have written. And as you're listening Today, I want you to think about the spiritual influences that have shaped your own life. Who helped you to learn to recognize God's presence? We have so much more on the other side of this break. We'll see you in just a minute.

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Indescribable by Chris Tomlin: From the highest of heights to the depths of the sea. Creations revealing your majesty. From the colors of fall to the fragrance of spring. Ever created creature unique in the song that it sings. All exclaiming, indescribable, uncontainable. You place the stars in the sky and you know them by name. You are amazing God. All powerful, untamable, awestruck, we fall to our knees as we humbly proclaim, you are amazing God.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is Indescribable by Chirs Tomlin and wherever you are, you can look around and you can see evidence of God's goodness, His grace, his presence in your life. Whether that is the sky that you're looking at, maybe it's something in nature, maybe it is the beautiful people that he has created for you as a family. And today we are talking to two generations of Blackabees. We're talking to Richard Blackaby, who's son of Henry Blackaby, author of Experiencing God. And we're talking to a third generation, Mike and Daniel Blackaby as well. And one of the things that is so hard for us in Christian life today, for modern believers, is that it is so much easier to see God in the extraordinary rather than in the everyday ordinary. We think we have to have some big emotional experience. We have to go to camp, we have to have some sort of miracle. But we know that God is in the routine, in the ordinary, in those everyday disciplines that we are doing. That is how we are maturing and growing and cultivating a faith that thrives in everyday life. And they have written a new book called Experiencing God in Everyday Life, A Journey Toward Spiritual Maturity.

We are primed to want instant gratification for everything

Now, this is something that's not easy to talk about today because we are primed to want instant gratification for everything. We have no tolerance for waiting in this culture. We can order everything at the touch of an app. Pretty much, apps run our life. You could have food delivered to your door. You can have a delivery of medicine or whatever you need. Pretty much everybody has access to anything they want instantly. But spiritual growth is just the opposite of, immediate. It is slow and it is tedious, and sometimes it can be hard to notice the progress. So, Mike, let's talk with you a little bit about that and talk about this, you know, mountain and valley, because that's a visual image, as you said when we were talking during the break, that's really familiar, really compelling. People can easily identify the mountaintops, the valleys in their life. Why does that so not coincide with a slow growth towards spiritual maturity?

Mike Blackaby: Yeah, I think we all. We all want mountaintops. we love those. But by definition, there are these spiritual high moments. and just like any other high, they can be addicting. We could say if I could just get back to that mountaintop. I experienced God in this incredible way at this conference. And so if I want that again, I just need to find the next conference to go to. And so we're always trying to find the next hit. And it sounds weird to talk about it that way, but every high is addicting. and so we chase after those things and. And like dad said earlier, but most of life is lived not in those places, though, in the ordinary moments of life. And so if you think of life as mountaintops and valleys, even in the Bible, when people had a mountaintop experience, oftentimes they Stumbled on the way down. They didn't know how to implement that into regular life. And so you've got people like Elijah calling down fire from heaven on Mount Carmel. It's like, doesn't get much more, power of God. It doesn't get much more dramatic than that. And yet right after that, you see him fleeing in fear from Jezebel and actually coming to a place where he doesn't even want to live anymore. And you're just like, wow. You know, like, talk about stumbling down the mountain. you've got. Moses receives the ten commandments on the top of a mountain, and you're just like, you're holding pieces of stone that were inscribed on by the very finger of God. Like, how do you top that? And then he comes down the mountain, he sees everybody worshiping a golden calf, and he smashes those tablets in anger. Anger will ultimately be the reason why he doesn't enter the promised land. Like, and. And so it's like, Peter is. Peter is on Mount of Transfiguration. He sees this glimpse of Jesus in his glorified state, and he doesn't even wait to go down to the mountain before he has to be interrupted by the audible voice of God saying, listen to. Listen to him. Stop talking. Listen to him. And it's like, why is it that we don't know how to implement what we learn on the mountaintop into the valley? And often we see, well, mountaintops are good and valleys are bad. We think immediately of the valley, of the shadow of death. But. But valleys aren't bad. Valleys is where the work is. Like Val, when they come down off the Mount of Transfiguration. The disciples have been trying to cast a demon out of a young boy and have failed at it. And Jesus says, you don't. It's your lack of faith. In other words, like, all the things you've been learning on, whatever your mountaintop experiences are, have not translated into the kind of faith that gets it done here in the real world. Here's an actual problem that came to you, and you have not grown to the place of faith. And now they would. After three years of following Jesus daily, they would get to that place.

One of the big things in this book is aiming towards spiritual maturity

But I think one of the big things in this book is aiming towards spiritual maturity. maturity happens by what you do consistently over time. It's not, can I collect enough big miracles in my life, and then one day I'll be mature? It's how do I take those mountaintop experiences, take that perspective, and implement that into my everyday life? Consistently so that over time, just like the way everything else grows, we grow incrementally. Sometimes there'll be growth spurts, but most of the time it's just little bit at a time moving down that path. And so our heart for this book a lot was, how do we do that? How do we implement that into the everyday? rather than just trying to seek the next mountaintop, how do we. How do we walk well in the valleys?

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, it's interesting that you bring up those three experiences because those were literal mountaintop experiences as well as figurative mountaintop experiences. I mean, really, you don't get to more dramatic climaxes in the Bible until you get, of course, to the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. Then some of those moments. And then you're right, I had never thought about it then. Coming straight down into the valley. I've thought about Elijah many times because I think, how can you go from that, from that kind of. And he was sarcastic, you know, when he was up on the mountain, like, oh, call down your God. Like, I feel like he was feeling kind of confident there, you know, and then to go to the point where he doesn't want to live. And this is why I just. I love the word of God, because there's so many people who will tell me, oh, it's so old. And how does it relate to modern day life? Those experiences that you just described are so relatable. And then we get down into the valley, into the everyday. You know, I know we promised, before we started the show that we'd ask Mike all the hard questions, but. Daniel, I'll throw you a curveball here.

Mike Blackaby: Give him a hard one.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Okay, good. Daniel, how do we do that? How do we do that in the everyday life? What does that look like? What did you. And what did you, the three of you, really want to bring into the book to give encouragement for the everyday believer?

Daniel: Our culture has conditioned us to expect instant gratification

Daniel Blackaby: Yeah, Well, I think probably, I mean, one of the main words that sort of is at the heart of, of what we've been working through this material in real time as we were even writing, is this intentionality, just being intentional, being aware of how we are spending our time in those everyday moments where our focus is, you know, I think you were even. We were talking before we went live. Just that our culture is so much, conditioned us to just expect instant kind of gratification. Everything's short and quick and, emotional and makes us feel good. And I mean, even just videos, you know, like, to the thought of Watching like a five minute video. For many in culture, we don't have the patience for that. We want give me 30 second videos and then, you know, let the algorithm queue up the next one so it can just keep feeding me those, those jolts. And I think we can treat the spiritual life that way of you know, like in a mountaintop. We know we're not going to necessarily be there for a long time. We might go to, you know, for some of, for younger, people like a youth camp or you know, we can handle a week. It makes us feel good. we can kind of soak in the high of that or you know, try and find a really great video to watch or whatever it is, to kind of give us those highs. but I don't think we haven't always been as intentional of like how do, how do I just live my everyday, like what am I, what am I, you know, what kind of disciplines or rhythms am I establishing in my life that are actually helping me focus on the way that God's at work all around me kind of beyond just those emotional highs or you know, I think in some ways too just, I think we can be self focused. I think that is another byproduct of our culture that we tend to think a lot of it in terms of, you know, how we want to feel in this, this worship, even how we go to church. We want this to be a worship experience and we want it to be to, you know, the band needs to play new songs and we can't do the Lord's supper too often because it's got to be special and you know, everything is about keeping things fresh and novel and exciting. and not as much time. I think if we're, I think we're all guilty of this, of just patient silence, things being uncomfortable before God, being okay with, with, with you know, silence as opposed to constant stimuli and emotional highs, just kind of resting in God's presence as opposed to having our, you know, souls elevated to the heavens and really caught up in the moment. And I know that's a lot of our in, in this study is just helping people. Like what are some things you can do in your life in a very practical way? some habits, some rhythms that, not that it becomes about those things as an end to themselves, but just how can we be intentional about the way we're living our life, the things we focus on, the way we spend our time, the way we approach things like dinner with our family or you know, a road Trip or vacation. Like, as we're going through life, what are some habits and some rhythms that we can actually be intentional to instill that kind of push back against the way that our culture is, is pushing on us and forming us to expect God to, to sort of cater to our need for constant, emotional highs. And, so I think for our book, you know, we try and provide some of those, but a lot of it's just the mindset of just be intentional about the way that we're, the things that are forming us so that we're not unintentionally being formed by the many, influences of the world.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Daniel, you have a lot of wisdom and what you just said in there, and I think intentional is the key word. And really culture is priming us to be unintentional. I think about the thief comes to steal and kill and destroy. And right now I think what the enemy is stealing the most of is our time and our attention. And we're just distracted and we're not paying attention and we don't have patience for those things of spiritual growth. We want a life hack. We want a supplement that's going to automatically fix things. And here on this show with my listening family, every Friday we talk about a habit for healthy families. And I think, you know, people sometimes expect, you know, okay, I'm going to come with some professor life hacks, you know, like, oh, here's this miracle communication trick. You can do it and change your family today when really we just start off. The whole month of January was week one, pray. Week number two, read your Bible. Week number three, go to church. Week number four, be intentional about the music that you're listening to and the messages you're surrounding your family with. And then we talk about some communication things. But I do believe it is the, in the mundane that God works the most miraculous things. And you know, Daniel, you said something really important too that your dad mentioned during the break.

Dr. Jessica Peck: We as a culture have no tolerance for silence

And Richard, I want to come back to you about this, this concept of silence, because not only do we as a culture have no tolerance for anything that is waiting, we also now have no tolerance for silence. We can fill in the noise with streaming of billions and billions and billions of hours of content, and there's no space just to be still. If you wake up in the night, people wake up and they start scrolling and numbing out. And how do you see that really impacting our connection with God and our daily discipleship?

Richard Blackaby: Yeah, we, we, we're trained to do all the Talking in our relationship with God, we don't. We wouldn't. And then people say, I'd never hear God's voice. And it's like, have you ever spent time listening? Have you ever spent time just being quiet? And I see this a lot in church. I, I remember I was doing a young adult, college retreat, years ago, and, I talked to the worship band ahead of time and just said, listen, you guys do whatever you want in the first part, but I'm going to have kind of a response time. And this. I just want to be quiet, reflective, and just, just not intrusive. Let, Let them just hear from God. And so I preached, and God really moved, and there was. A lot of people came forward. Well, the worship band just thought, oh, God has moved, so we've, we've got to play music accordingly. And they just rocked us out of there. I mean, it was as loud as it could be.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Wow.

Richard Blackaby: And I don't mind loud music, but it's like people are at the front trying to pray. They're trying to pray with one another, and you can't hear a thing in there. And, and, but, but their thought was, hey, if God's going to work, it's got to be loud. The drums have got to be pounding, the guitar has got to be justed all out. And, and so the next night I just said, look, tonight we're going to do a response time. I don't want you to go anywhere near your instruments. And they couldn't imagine that. The worship guy literally said, well, how, how are people going to respond if. If we're not playing music? I said, well, let's be wild and crazy and just have silence tonight. Right? And, so they, I mean, they almost pled with me, well, we'll, we'll. We'll tone it down. And I just didn't trust him. I said, no, I don't. Just no music. Nothing at all. And, and so had an altar call and, and. And people just began to silently come and pray. And they're praying with one another, they're weeping with one another. And what you heard all through that huge auditorium was just the sound of weeping and praying out loud and people crying out to God. It was one of the most powerful things I'd ever heard. Just take all the background sound away and let people just respond to God and hear his voice. And I just think, we don't know how powerful silence can be because we haven't. We're not used to it anymore. But I, I would say as a, as a public speaker, I've had to realize some of the most powerful things I, I do is when I don't say anything, I just stop and just say, God is speaking right now. I'm going to just stop talking and let you just listen to his voice. And then amazing things happen.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I agree. That works for me as a teacher. I tell my students all the time, I am not made uncomfortable at all by uncomfortable silence. It is perfectly fine. We will just sit here in that silence. It works for me as a parent as well. And I think that we need to be intentional about listening for God's voice, creating space in that. Because we just fill up, every second of available space in our lives with streaming. Sometimes that's a good content. But God is not a content creator. He is not there saying, oh, what can I do to keep their attention? God is.

Richard Blackaby: If you're working with people, you would have a lot of experience with this. But I know even counselors and friends that just have to keep talking. You're trying to encourage someone. So keep.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I, I'm gonna keep. We're gonna keep talking about this, this after the break. We are right up against the break, Richard, but I'm going to let you keep talking right when we come back because this is what people need to hear.

AFA celebrates America's 250th birthday with special America 250 apparel

We'll be right back with the Blackaby's

 : America's 250th birthday. It's a great excuse to have some extra cake and ice cream, but we can help your celebration go well beyond that. Show your patriotism with America 250 apparel that will become a memento of this special year. We also have special episodes on AFA Stream to help underscore that America is a Christian nation and help you find God in the Constitution. Find all of this and more in one place. afa.net/topics/250

Goodness of God by CeCe Winans: Cause all my life you have been faithful and all my life you have been so, so good with every breath that I am, able. Oh, I will sing of the goodness of God.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Welcome back, friends. That is the Goodness of God by CeCe Winans. That is definitely in my top 10 playlist right now. And it's not my top 10 of 142 fake top 10. That is in my true top 10. That song will be at my funeral. I will speak of the goodness of God every chance I get. Because God has been so, so good to me, so faithful to me. And when I was a young teenager, I did a Bible study that was really formational in the foundation of my faith. And that was a Bible study called Experiencing God. I know that. I know that. I know that many of you also experienced God through the work of Dr. Henry Blackaby. And today we're talking to his son Richard and their son and the third generation, Mike and Daniel Blackaby, who have written a new iteration of that classic ah of experiencing God. It's called Experiencing God in Everyday Life, A Journey toward Spiritual Maturity.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And.

Dr. Jessica Peck: And some of these messages in there are timeless but even more countercultural. In a world that prioritizes instant gratification and dopamine hits from feeling good and just being distracted from the world, those things are countercultural to the counter to the nature of the work of God. God is at work in the everyday. And I want you to think about your typical day. Where might God already be at work? Where is God at work in those places that maybe you have overlooked. What ordinary moments can become sacred if you pay closer attention. And any of those moments can become sacred. Waking your children up in the morning and being grateful for the gifts that God has given you, putting them to bed at night, saying goodnight to your spouse. Those moments are all sacred moments where God is at work. And we live in this culture that just prioritizes quick fixes and instant results. But spiritual growth rarely happens overnight. It is formed through those consistent habits and rhythms and practices that are going to shape our hearts over time. And Richard, before the break, you and I were just talking about, talking about how we just have no tolerance for silence. And you were just saying that even sometimes in therapy, that's something that we've got to start to learn to do is to create moments, to listen to God's voice so that we know what it's like. So I'm going to give it back to you and let you finish your thought.

Richard Blackaby: There's a. Yeah. Just to say, I used to be a pastor and I, I felt like that was my job, was to have words for people. Whatever they were going through. I had the appropriate profound word to share with them. And God had to teach me that people don't need what I have to say. They don't need my words. They need a word from God. And sometimes, even well meaning friends and parents, we can be talking so much that our kids don't have an opportunity to hear from God. They're just hearing from us.

Richard Blackaby: And as much as we want to change our kids or our friends, there's no words we can speak that can do that. But one word from God can change everything. And so just to realize that sometimes silence can be our friend and to just kind of get out of the way and let God move to center stage sometimes in our conversations, even with our kids. If you're a mom, if you're a dad, sometimes it's hard to trust God with our kids because we want to make sure that, that things get worked out the way they should. But God is an expert at working with people and I think sometimes if we would just maybe say less and step to the back and that God step to the front and then just be quiet and silence can be very powerful. It's a very powerful tool if you just let God fill that void instead of just more of our words filling the void.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I know. I feel like sometimes as believers when somebody asks a question, we think like, oh, this is a pop quiz. I've got to come up with the most spiritual sounding answer. And I'm about to be graded on my level of Christianity when God speaks so much more powerfully than we do so many times.

So much of what happens in a church service shapes people beneath the surface

And you know, Mike, I want to come to you because I think this is a real challenge for churches too, because just as individuals we look for those mountaintop moments. We kind of look for those in a church life too. We look for that. Maybe it's a musical, maybe it's a, you know, a specific event, a worship service that seems particularly emotional or it's programming that's spot on and seems excellent. But God works in the ordinary moments of church too. What challenges and opportunities do you see, Mike, for churches to bring forward the messages that, the message that you've written in this book?

Mike Blackaby: Yeah, I'm still figuring it out. But in one sense, so much of what happens in a church service shapes people beneath the, the surface of their lives. And so it's, it's not just about like what you say and do, but, but how you do it and, and how you say it. And, and so yeah, people are shaped by the actual experience. If the whole service is built around just hyping people up to an emotional frenzy, then they're going to start to understand worship and who God is based on that. And so like even dad was saying, if you never build in times for, for silence or even uncomfortable things like confession and repentance and lament and, and some of these, some of these things then, then it can start to be like, you know, I, I go to church to, to get something from it and, and so much of, ah, growing in spiritual maturity. Is just flipping all of that on its head. it. It's no longer about, what do I come to now? The Christian life. You do get something when you're born again. You. You receive salvation. You receive the Holy Spirit, like, all. All of this incredible stuff. so that's where you start. Just like, that's where a baby starts. A baby starts by having everything given to it. But, but if we're in our 40s and we're just still like, like, feed me. Then, it's like, well, like, come on, you never, you never learned to open up the fridge and make yourself a sandwich. Like, And yet, if we're not careful, people can come to our churches week after week and just say, feed me. I've been like, you've been coming here for. You've been going to church for 20 years and you don't know how to feed yourself? Like, now, that's not necessarily an indictment on them. Maybe it's an indictment on me as a pastor. Like. Like, okay, Jesus had his followers and in three, he gave them the Holy Spirit afterwards. But in about three years, he taught them everything they needed to know to become the leaders of the church, of the new church. It's like, wow. It's like, in three years, you guys are going to take the reins on this thing, and I'm going to go and I'll send the Holy Spirit and he will bring to remembrance the things I've taught you. But, but Peter, you're going to be a leader. Like, James, you're going to be a leader. Jon, you're going to be a lead. Like, all these guys are going to be the leaders of the movement after about three and a half years of following Jesus. Jesus. And then we've got people in our churches who have been in Bible studies and stuff for, for 20, 30 years, and they've never led anything. and there's a sense of, like, what does maturity look like? Maturity is not, have I done the same thing my whole life? And I've just. I've just continually added to my biblical encyclopedia up here. And, you know, and I can tell you how many Bible studies and things I've consumed. Or is there a sense of like. Like God has slowly worked the pride out of my life? And maybe at its most basic sense, spiritual maturity is beginning to take our eyes off of ourselves and put them on to God and to other people. And you can take any teaching that Jesus did, and it basically boils down to that. Take your eyes off your selfishness, put your Eyes on other people and put your eyes on your heavenly Father. And so if people aren't being shaped towards that, then we're not. We're not maturing. I can consume lots of Christian content and not mature. And so I think it's good for us to look and say, so how do I measure that? Like, how do I measure whether this is actually working or not? Am I growing in maturity or am I just still consuming content the same way I consumed it 10 years ago? It's just different content, but I'm still doing it. It's still all about me and what I can consume. And so those are some. Not necessarily maybe an answer, but. But think that I'm like that as a pastor. I'm trying to work through and figure out, like, if God has called me to shepherd these people, and then, like, man, how do. How do we move towards spiritual maturity? Because if. If my church just keeps coming on Sundays and saying, like, give. Give me something. Hand me something, and then goes home and. And, you know, feeds off that for the next week and then has to come back, it's like, no, we got to build rhythms in our lives to where people learn how to feed themselves. And if you can feed yourself, you can't just gorge yourself with one big meal a week and then starve yourself for the rest of the week and expect to grow healthy in your physical life. And so it's the same way in the spiritual life. And so how do we. How do we learn to do that consistently? you know, learn how to feed ourselves so that we. So that we grow? And what does that growth look like? And are, like Daniel said, are we intentional about that is probably the biggest thing. Because if we're not intentional, we will be unintentionally formed by the world. So we are being formed. We are developing habits. The question is, are they intentional or unintentional? And are they good or bad habits? But. But they will form and we will be formed. It's just a matter of what will we be formed by?

Daniel: As Christians to become more mature, you need to feed yourself

Dr. Jessica Peck: Mike, I. I didn't warn the audience, but, man, I should have told them, put on their tough suit. Because if you're really listening, some of those things that you said, said are really tough truths, but I think they need to be said. And I do think that that's how a lot of people in America go to church on Sunday. They are empty all week. They've never opened their Bible. They haven't done anything intentional. And their discipleship. And they arrive at church and they're Fighting in the car, and they're walking in with a bad attitude and expecting to have an emotional experience given to them. A big feast. As you said, just gorge myself here so that I can feel better. And then because I'm not going to feed myself all during the week. So this has got to be it.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I think that's such a really wise way to look at it and that we gotta open the fridge and make ourselves a spiritual snack. Like, I think about, you know, things that, that I've learned to do, and I certainly, am a poster child for, you know, falling down and getting back up again, and that's what we do in our spiritual walk. But if I'm feeling defeated, hey, I need to be memorizing some verses about victory. I need to create a playlist about, about victory. That's my spiritual sandwich that I'm going to make to say, all right, I need to feed myself during this time. And I think that, you know, we really can't. That carries over into the family. So, Daniel, where do you see that carrying over into the family? Because I see parents who are bringing their kids to church and saying, okay, like, let's just give me everything that I need. Because we're so busy during the week, going to soccer practice and school, homework and all of that. I don't know how much time we're going to have. So fill us up today. What can families do and what has your family done to really work towards spiritual maturity outside of church?

Daniel Blackaby: Yeah, well, I think that's probably an important thing to note, too. That was, one of our hearts for the study. Like Mike said, obviously, as Christians to, to become more mature, you got to learn to, to feed yourself. But, there can be a sense too, where, where, you know, spiritual maturity can become a very selfish pursuit of, you know, I think if you think of a lot of people, I want to become more spiritually mature. What comes to mind might be, well, they're probably going to read their Bible longer. They're going to be in their study, they're going to be listening to more, sermon podcasts, and very much just continually feeding me. but if you look at scripture, the way that Jesus grew, the maturity of his disciples, it wasn't just, you know, hey, let's go into this, this house, and for the next five hours, I'm going to drop some truth bombs on you. It was no, like, let's go serve people. you know, the famous Jesus washing his disciples feet like that is growing their maturity by serving people. That is, it's kind of in the context of community and family and just the culture that we live in. As God works through us, that's how he grows sort of the maturity within us. It's not just about feeding so that we feel satisfied and rubbing our bellies, like after Thanksgiving dinner. It's no, like go out there and get around people. And I think that can apply to the family. I think, you know, even as I was working on this, study, you know, both Mike and I have young kids, all under the age of 11. And so, you know, we're, we're writing the study about spiritual maturity, but we're also rushing them to sports practices and balancing school schedules. And I get it. I know for me, like, I was very much convicted of that, of just, okay, if I'm going to become spiritually mature, it doesn't mean I, you know, put my video game, you know, video games on for my kids so I can go read my Bible for the next three hours and quiet, you know, I should be reading my Bible. But it also means how can I serve my kids? How can I see what God's doing in their lives, life? How can I, you know, take the eyes off myself? And how is God growing their maturity? How can I learn from that? How can I, be a part of that or, you know, with my wife? How can I join what God is already doing in her life? And through that process, I think through joining God's activity, that will make us more mature as we learn to be humility, we learn dependence, we, ah, learn to be, you know, other focused rather than self focused. And I think sort of along the way we'll find that we are more in tune with, with the type of person that God calls us want to be. But, but a lot of that growth can only come through service and through, aligning our life with others. It can't just come from continually feeding ourself and hoping if we just, you know, put one more spoonful of, you know, spiritual content in, then we'll level up and be more mature. I think it is really through the daily grind of life and being attentive to God's activity there that we become more spiritually mature. Sure.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, Richard, as the, I'm not saying anything about age, but as the most seasoned, the most mature, the patriarch of the Blackaby family, we only have about one minute left.

Richard Blackaby: Almighty God is at work around the ordinary moments of life

I'd love to give the last word of encouragement to you.

Richard Blackaby: Yeah, I would just say to all the, your listeners, if there's one thing I can assure you it is that Almighty God is at work around the ordinary moments of your life, that he's not far away. He doesn't just work with megachurch pastors. He loves you and he's at work and has a purpose for your life. but, but open your spiritual eyes. As Jesus often said, he that has ears to hear, let him hear. He that has eyes to see, let him see. In other words, I am at work around you. Open your eyes and you're. Or you're going to miss it. And I would just encourage you if this week, just pray God, open my eyes and ears so that I don't miss what you're doing right under my nose, in my own kids, under my. Under my own roof, in my workplace, in my neighborhood. And I, think that's the story we've heard over and over again, that people realize, oh, my goodness, God's at work in my world, too. And, my life's never been the same since I discovered that.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Richard, thank you so much. And if my memory serves me correctly, that was one of the songs of the musical Open the Eyes of My Heart. Lord, I remember seeing that. We want to see God. So open the eyes of the. Pray that God would open the eyes of your heart. That comes straight from Scripture. Enlighten the eyes of your heart. And I pray that as you do, the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace. And I'll see you right back here tomorrow.

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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.