Transcript

Dr. Jessica Peck is prescribing Hope for healthy families on American Family Radio

Dr. Jessica Peck: We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time, she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword BABY or visit preborn.com/AFR hello,

 : and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show, prescribing Hope for healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner, and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, hey there, friends, and welcome to my favorite time of day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for healthy families. But listen, today I'm not prescribing hope. I'm prescribing joy.

We're going to talk about joy today. And we live in a moment where joy really feels elusive

We're going to talk about joy today. And this seems like such a simple, simple thing to talk about, but really, I see families every single day who are letting the enemy steal their joy. And guess what? My family is one of those. It's so hard not to let the enemy steal your joy. The enemy has come to steal and kill and destroy. And sometimes we just feel the weight of that. And we live in a moment today where joy really feels elusive. Because families today, we are. We are promised all of these conveniences that are going to make our life so much easier. And yet it feels like we are judging, struggling more than ever. We are going faster than ever. We have overloaded schedules. We have constant digital noise. It doesn't seem like the world ever turns off or goes to sleep. We have rising anxiety, no surprise, and a culture that promises the pursuit of happiness. It's even in our founding documents of our country. But somehow it feels like we're rarely delivered that actual happiness. And maybe our pursuit is in the wrong place. And as parents listen, we are trying our best to raise grounded, resilient kids in a world that feels anything but steady and honestly feels anything but joyful beyond what is very superficial. And beneath it all, if we're really honest with each other, there's a quiet exhaustion. And we don't even really have the language for it. You know, it used to be when you would say hello to somebody in public and you say, hey, how are you? And what's the answer that we give? We say, oh, I'm fine, I'm fine. are you fine? How are you? I'm fine. That was kind of the thing.

Dr. Jessica Peck: I feel like the Cultural currency. Now, what I hear is, how are you? And the response that I get back is, oh, I'm tired. Oh, I'm really tired. I. I am just really tired. And especially if you talk to kids, you hear that? And in response to that, our culture is offering you quick fixes for joy. More convenience, more comfort, more control. That. That one is kind of my favorite. But what we're seeing across all generations from generation Beta, which I think is going to be the name that sticks for the. That's being born now. Gen Alpha, Gen Z, we have millennials, Gen X, we have baby boomers, we have the greatest generation, the silent generation that everybody forgets about. But all of those generations, we see pathways that leave people just feeling more anxious and isolated and spiritually depleted. So the question we're going to answer today is, is real, lasting joy even possible, or is this an elusive pursuit? I think you know the answer, that it is possible, and it's not really as elusive as we think. So today we're going to have some conversation to challenge those assumptions that we've been handed about happiness, the pursuit of happiness, and think about all of the marketing and Happy Meals, the happiest place on earth. You deserve to be happy, all of these things. Today, we're inviting you into something deeper, more durable, and really, really countercultural. Joy does not depend on your circumstances, but it's rooted in Christ.

Dr. Nurse Mama welcomes Tara Dew to talk about finding joy in life

Our guest today is a friend of the show, Tara Dew. She's an author, she's a Bible teacher, she's a ministry leader with a heart for helping women and families engage deeply with God's Word. She has spent years walking alongside families and women especially, who feel overwhelmed and weary and stretched thin. Although that is a universal human experience, it seems these days, and those who feel hungry for something more, like, there's gotta be something more. And in her book, Overflowing Joy, she takes us straight to John 15, and she reveals what she calls three surprising pathways to joy. Pathways that don't always look like what we expect, but ultimately lead to something rich, something lasting, something full. Tara is also a wife, a mom of four, including two sets of twins. Amazing. And someone who brings both theological depth and lived experience to this conversation. Tara, we are so overjoyed. How did you see how I did that there? We're overjoyed to have you back. Tara, you so much for joining us.

Tara Dew: Oh, Dr. Jessica, thank you for having me. I am thrilled to be back on the Dr. Nurse Mama show with you and all your precious listeners. And my goodness, as you were just Doing that opening, it was so true because we all resonate with everything that you are saying. And I think we're all left thinking, there's got to be something more, right? There's God. We're, we're not supposed to be tired of anxious all the time. And it's this really happiness that's just this fleeting. And so I'm so excited to be having this conversation with you today and so thankful for everybody who's listening in.

Dr. Jessica Peck: Well, me too. And I can already hear all of the joy in your voice, and it just, it encourages me. Tara, you are a person who gives me joy because I see people in the world who are just living that faithful walk, who are running the race that God set out before them. And I'm so glad that he has given you this torch to carry of helping us to find our joy. So we're going to follow along behind you today.

Jessica: What are some common pathways that our culture is promoting for finding joy?

And before we really can understand where to find real joy, I think we need to understand where our joy is being stolen. What do you think are the most common pathways that our culture is promoting for finding joy right now with these marketing promises of, oh, it's easy and it's accessible, and here it is. And where are we seeing that pull to try to find joy in culture?

Tara Dew: Great. question. And honestly, you quoted one of my favorite passages for this John 10 and that how Satan, our thief, wants to steal and kill and destroy us, but Jesus says, I've come to give you life and life abundantly, right? Overflowing. And I think that the ways of this world, Satan's tactics, is that he wants us to believe that our joy is found outside of God. And this was the lie all the way back from the beginning with Eve when he showed her that fruit and tempted her to say, did God really say, basically saying, okay, here's what God said would give you joy and peace, but is that really true? Or maybe you should do your own thing. Maybe you should go get something else. And that is exactly the same lie that he is telling us today. He is telling Americans especially, okay, seek after the American dream. You'll never have enough money, so keep working. Work overtime, work extra hours. Get, get, get. Not only do you need a bigger house, you need more stuff in that house. You need better cars that are newer. You need the nice name brand clothes and shoes and jewelry. And he's lying to us, letting us believe that our joy is going to come from these very temporal things. These things that the Bible says are, wood, hay, and stubble that do not Last. But so many people in our world today are just seeking more and more and more. But, Dr. Jessica, you know that these things don't bring you true joy. They might satisfy you for a minute, but it's kind of like drinking ocean water. It's just going to leave you more thirsty. And when I talk to people, whether they felt like, I'm going to be joyful when I get this promotion, or I'm going to be joyful when I move into this house, or I'm going to be joyful when I get this new car, and then they realize when they get it, oh, that's not satisfying to me. I need more. I need more things. I need more power. I need more money. And this world leaves us thirstier and thirstier. And so I feel like Satan's tactic has been the same. He has been tempting people from the beginning of time into thinking that our happiness, our joy can come outside of God and his promises and his ways. And he gets our eyes looking at all of the things of this world, and they do not satisfy.

Dr. Jessica Peck: M. That is so true, Tara. You know, I remember a guest that we had on a while ago. Her name is Rebecca George. And she talked about an extended season of singleness. Like, she thought she'd be married in her 20s, but she wasn't. And she was speaking, and she had gone to this, really nice, place in the Smoky Mountains. And she didn't have a husband to bring with her. She brought her mom. And she was talking about how she knew that she should be joyful about that, but she thought, oh, if only I could bring a husband. And. And then, lo and behold, she met a husband. And that conference asked her back to the same place, to the same room. And she goes with her husband now, you know, thinking, this is it. And she talked about this moment that I haven't been able to get out of my mind. She said, you know, she was there with her husband and thinking, oh, this is so lovely. This is so beautiful. And as, she opened up the curtains on the balcony, she saw families with children. And she thought, oh, but if only I had a child. If only we had children, then, you know, that would be really perfect. And it just reminded me about, you know, what. What is the thief of joy? And how. And talking about that passage from Jon 10, how the thief comes to steal, and he really does steal our joy. And I love the analogy that you had about making us thirstier and thirstier because they're just giving us, like you said, ocean water. But Jesus Said I am the living water. Those who drink know we'll never thirst again. And that is the contrast. Why then, if we know these things, you know, I'm a professor, I, I see this academically, I see this clinically, I see this as a mom. Why is it still so hard to make our brains speak to our hearts and make us really believe what we know to be true? Why are we still tripping and stumbling over something that seems so easy?

Tara Dew: I know, I know. And isn't this just the Christian life of sanctification? Right? Why do we do the things we don't want to do? Why do we seek the things that we know are not going to bring us happiness? And I think, honestly, this is part of just the daily dying to ourselves where Jesus says, take up your cross and follow me. Sometimes that means we've got to fight our own fleshly desires. Other times it means we've got to fight the worldly passions that this world offers to us. And other times, we've just got to flat out deny what Satan is trying to do in our lives and say, no, I'm going to follow Christ. But I think it takes this daily submission, realizing that our lives are not our own and that God has what's best for us and we've got to trust him. Because if we're not careful, we will lean on our own understanding, right? As Proverbs 3, 5, 6 says. Or our eyes will go to the things of this world because we can see it. We're surrounded by it every day. And we also see Satan's lies in our world. And sometimes it's harder to follow someone that you cannot see versus something that you can see. And I think that's why I love the hymn Turn my eyes upon Jesus, look full in his wonderful face, and then the things of this earth will grow strangely dim in the light of his glory and grace. And so I think it is just this daily dying to ourselves and daily turning our eyes back to God and saying, you are my treasure, you are my greatest joy. Your plans are to prosper me, and I trust you.

Dr. Jessica Peck says we need a redefinition of joy

Dr. Jessica Peck: Tara, you don't know this and our listeners don't know this, but I'm about to tell you something. That song that you just quoted, the lyrics of, I, I, I, this is. The Lord has done something divine here. I love when God just puts it on the heart of people just to have the same message that I did. Let me tell you, I had an email from a listener not too long ago who talked about some struggles and we me and my team were praying over this and, and I, you know, my team was saying, my producer was saying, okay, what, what do you think you want to respond? And I said, you know, the, the song that I keep thinking that the holy spirit has given me is turn your eyes upon Jesus. Turn your eyes upon Jesus. Such an old song, but, but such an ancient truth that is still today. And then I, went to Good Friday service and we sang, you know, we did the whole service and at the very end the worship pastor started leading us in the last course of turn your eyes upon Jesus. And now you have said that to me today. It is such, when the, when you pay attention, the Lord puts messages like that in your life. I really believe that he uses, he uses his people to encourage each other. And you have encouraged me and given me joy in that, Tara. and when we come back, you know, we're going to continue to talk about this. The first two pathways, pruning and presence, are the path, two of the surprising pathways, as you say it. And I think some of the insight that we need just from this little snippet of conversation that we've had so far is that culture does offer temporary relief, but it is fleeting, it is counterfeit. It does not lead to transformation. And those that busyness and comfort that we have, we have the comfort and feeling busy. And you know, as my pastor recently said, living in the suburbs is kind of the American dream. So that your kids can go to a good school, so they can go to a good college, they can get a good job, so they can move to the suburbs and have kids, you know, this kind of repeated pattern. But God has given you get more, he is offering you more. We need a redefinition of joy, not just better coping strategy. So if the world's version of joy is falling short, and I think we can all agree that it is, then we have to ask a deeper question. What does Jesus actually say about this? When we come back, we're going to talk about the word God does, the work that God does in us. We're talking about pruning and presence with Tara Joy now, Tara Joy. She is Tara Joy. She's Tara Dew about overflowing joy. We'll be right back after this break. Mother's Day. It's one of the most beautiful moments of the year to share life changing news. Maybe you've seen it, a family gathered around the table. When someone stands up and says, next year there will be a brand new mom in our family, there's Nothing like it. But for some women, Mother's Day feels very different. Instead of celebrating, they're carrying a secret. Afraid, Unsure. Alone. That's why preborn exists. Because when a woman sees her baby on an ultrasound and hears that tiny heartbeat, and it doubles the chance she'll choose life. I couldn't imagine my life without him. Because of them. He's here. We're gonna get through it, and it's gonna be okay. Preborn empowers women to become mothers. Just $28 provides one ultrasound. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby. That's pound 250, baby. Or donate securely at preborn.com/AFR, afr that's preborn.com/AFR

Can't Steal My Joy by Josiah Queen and Brandon Lake : in the Valley of the shadow I got a feeling it's season that'll make me grow I'm still breathing I got praise in my lungs in a choir in my soul can't steal my joy. Can't steal my joy Lo.

Dr. Jessica Peck: M welcome back, friends. That is can't steal my joy by Josiah Queen and Brandon Lake. And that's exactly what we're talking about today. We are going to make a collective declaration that we are not going to let the enemy steal our joy. Steal the joy in our own personal lives, steal the joy in our marriages, steal the joy from our children, steal the joy in our families. We are going to collectively declare that there is a better way. And I'm talking today to author mom Bible teacher Tara Dew. I called her Tara Joy. And I feel like, sorry, Tara. That's gonna stick because you are such a joyful person. I love it.

Tara says there are three surprising pathways to joy we have established already

We've had her on the show before talking about her book Overflowing Peace, what God says about a peace filled life. And today we're talking about overflowing joy, what Jesus says about a joy filled life. And Tara, you tell us in this book that you think there are three surprising pathways to joy we have established already. The enemy comes to the steal and to kill and destroy. We know that Jesus said he came to give us life, life to the full. And that in in Christ, there is fullness of joy, fullness of joy. And we are not going to let comparison that pesky thief of joy, as my daughter says, steal it. And your message really turns the world's message upside down. And the first two pathways to joys aren't things we achieve. they are things God does within us. And I think the first one is pruning, which I'm going to be honest with you, Tara, does not sound pleasant, does not sound Joyful at the first. How do you turn this on its head to be really what I've heard referred to as the up sound, upside down kingdom of God.

Tara Dew: That's exactly what it is, you know. And Jesus says in John 15, verse 11, I'm telling you these things so that my joy will be in you, and your joy will be made complete. And that word complete means so genuine and so real and so full that it is overflowing and contagious. And I was studying John 15 during COVID and we knew about things that were contagious during that time. But joy was not something that people often were spreading. They were not spreading joy. They were spreading anxiety and fear and anger and disappointment and discouragement because everything was being canceled.

 : And.

Tara Dew: But as I studied Jesus words and the things that he was talking about, that would allow his joy to be in us and our joy to be so full and overflowing and contagious. The first thing he says in Jon 15 is that his father, God, the Father is the gardener who prunes every branch that produces fruit so that it will produce more fruit. And I didn't know a lot about pruning, but I've learned that pruning is when a gardener loves their plants so much, they cut them back where they have maybe grown extra or lanky or superfluous. And that process of pruning them back or cutting them back sends the plant's roots deeper and creates a healthier, stronger plant. Where there was one branch, it will then produce three. And so where there might have been one flower, there will be three flowers. And I learned this firsthand. But I believe we can all look back at our lives and see pruning seasons where God, in his love for us, in his kindness for us, will prune us back. Maybe in places where we've gotten stretched too thin, or we've grown our calendars that are just lanky and overstretched, or our budgets or fill in the blank with what it is, because left to ourselves, we are just like plants. Where we will stretch ourselves, we will grow. And sometimes you don't have the roots to support that extra growth. And so God, in His kindness and in his love, will prune us back. And it's not because we've done something wrong. It's because our, lives have borne fruit for him in the past. And he wants us to bear more fruit. And in verse 8 of Jon 15, it says, bear much fruit and prove to be my disciples. And when I think about our God, he likes to see Things grow. He doesn't want us to stay the same. And so when we are pruned, it's because he loves us and he knows what's best for us. It's going to send our roots to deeper, and then we will become healthier, stronger, and more fruitful. And when I look back in my own life, I see those seasons that were hard, the seasons where, it just looked like there were branches falling all around me. And I honestly can remember telling my husband sometimes, am I ever going to stop crying? Because all I'm seeing are what I'm losing. But now I can look back and, oh, my goodness, I have more joy today than I did then. I have more love in my heart for the Lord and for others than I had then. I have more patience. I have more peace. Right. The fruit of the Spirit that He produces in us as we trust him and as we follow him. And so pruning is not something that any of us ever want. And oftentimes, when we've gone through pruning, we think, I'm doing something wrong, God is punishing me. But Hebrews tells us that the Lord disciplines those he loves. And sometimes his discipline in the moment can seem so painful. But when we look back, we can see that he was doing some things far greater than we could have ever imagined. And he is producing in us the likeness of his Son. And so that pruning, though it's painful and though it's hard, it will have its effect. And more fruit will then be produced in our lives.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, Tara, you've just given us a really beautiful picture about what you said about the roots not being mature enough to handle maybe the growth that's happening in the plant. And I think about that in my own life. And one lesson that the Lord has taught me is sometimes opportunity outpaces character development. And you may feel like you have this great opportunity, and maybe the door shuts on that opportunity, or maybe you take that opportunity and it doesn't end up the way that you did that you thought it would. And what I've learned is that sometimes those opportunities. This goes back to one of my favorite verses, Psalm, 84:11. The Lord God is a son and a shield. He gives grace and glory. No good thing does he withhold from those who walk uprightly. And so often we reach for those things, things that we think are going to give us joy, that relationship restoration that, you know, moving to, a better place for better opportunities for your kids, or some of those things that on the surface Might seem like, okay, the Lord wouldn't be opposed to that. You know, those are good gifts. But we recognize that we don't yet have the character that we need to move into that moment. And you did such a good job speaking with, with metaphors and pictures, which is exactly what Jesus did in this, in this whole passage. You know, I am the vine, you are the branch. Inches. what can we learn about these metaphors that he has that, that are just such rich stories that have theological truths for us that are just as relevant today as they were when Jesus spoke them 2000 years ago? Which it just, absolutely mind boggling to me.

Tara Dew: Yes, yes.

Jesus uses this metaphor of a vine and branches to teach his disciples about joy

Well, Jesus was the master teacher. And so he would use images that his disciples and his followers were familiar with to teach them something that they might not be familiar with. And so, just like us, they did not know where true joy was found, and they didn't know how to get true joy. But they were around vineyards and agriculture all the time. And so he's using this metaphor of a vine and branches to explain to them something that they don't understand, and that's joy. But we are very far removed from that agricultural society. And so sometimes, sometimes we don't understand the full metaphor, which is why we have to really study it, because we're missing out on these truths that his disciples, you know, in the first century would have totally knew. Known. They, they knew about vines, they knew about pruning, they knew about these branches and what would happen to them. They knew about how to produce fruit. Whereas you and I, well, we just go to the grocery store, right, and we get our grapes. But that would have been foreign to them. They didn't have that. So they had these vineyards all around them. And Jesus was giving these instructions to his disciples the night before he was crucified. This was part of the upper room discourse. So they would have been having Jesus wash their feet, sharing the Last Supper. They would have passed vineyards before they got there. And when they left the Upper Room, they'd go to the garden of Gethsemane where Jesus would pray and they'd pass more vineyards. So disciples of that time knew all about these images. But if we're not careful and if we don't study it, we don't. And so Jesus is saying in this, I am the vine. I am the one true way for you to be saved. I'm the one true way for you to have life. I'm the one true way for you to have joy. And we are just these tiny Little branches that extend from the vine. And we have to have a trellis to even hold us up. We can. We can't even hold ourselves up. We are just these tiny little things that are supposed to look like the vine, but we don't have roots on our own. We can't support ourselves on our own. We are fully dependent. And the Holy Spirit is the one that is our nourishment. He is the one that gives us the power to bear this fruit of love and joy and peace, like Galatians 5 talks about. And then God the Father is the gardener, the master of the vineyard, the one who knows how he wants his vine to spread, the One who owns it all, and the One who has plans and purposes. And so what I often remind ladies and listeners is the Holy Spirit, Jesus and God the Father, the whole Trinity, the entire Godhead is involved in our joy. It is not something that we can do on our own. Jesus, we have to stay connected to Him. The Holy Spirit has to produce it in us. And God the Father, we've got to trust his plan. And that's why Jeremiah 29:11 is such a comfort to us. God says, I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a hope and a future. His command for us from the beginning, Genesis was, be fruitful and multiply, right? Bear a lot of fruit and make more image bearers. And then Jesus says that again in Matthew 28, go make disciples. Basically saying, be fruitful, multiply, right? Teaching them everything. I've commanded you. We have to understand this metaphor that Jesus is using here in John 15, how it relates to Genesis 1 and 2, how it relates to the great commission in Matthew 28, how this fruit that, Paul talks About in Galatians 5 is produced in us. It's all found in this metaphor and pruning. People say to me all the time, tara, why do you start with pruning? Well, Jesus started with pruning. It is Genesis. I mean, it is in John 15, verses 1 and 2. And so if we have to understand this metaphor, and if we have to understand how to have this contagious, complete joy, well, we've got to start where Jesus started. And he started with God the Father and his plan for you and I. And that includes pruning us. And that's hard, but that's where the joy starts.

Dr. Jessica Peck: That's exactly right. And so what we've established to, recap is that culture tries to sell us a counterfeit joy, it does not satisfy. We've got to go back to how God presented joy to us through Jesus walking through this, this passage in Jon 15. And then it starts with pruning. And you, you talked about John 15:1 and 2. And you go down to verse 13, which again is such a powerful verse. Greater love has no man than this. Than one lay down his life for his friends. And you set this up for us, Tara, so beautifully. You know that this is the upper room discourse. Jesus is about to lay down his life. So this isn't some authoritarian, you know, God that is distant. Who's saying, okay, you have to be pr. Jesus laid down his life. Jesus took on flesh. Jesus took on the penalty for our sin. He is right there with us.

Jesus says in John 15, verse 5, you can do nothing without me

And that leads us to that second pathway which is presence.

Tara Dew: Yes, yes. And Jesus says in John 15, verse 5, you can do nothing. M without me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Apart from me, you can do nothing. And if you look in Jon 15, there is a repeated word over and over and over again. And this is another master teaching technique that Jesus uses, because his listeners would have been hearing the message, not necessarily seeing it. But you and I, we have our Bibles, and anytime there's a repeated word, it should catch our attention. Well, In Jon chapter 15, verse verses 4 through 8, Jesus uses the word abide eight times. Now, that word abide we don't often use in our English language, but it can also be translated remain, stay, or dwell. And it's the same concept that Jesus is our home and we are to stay at home with him. He is our abode. He is our dwelling. Plays and we learned this firsthand in Covid during 2020. We were all put on a stay at home order and we were going to flatten that curve of COVID and it was going to be gone forever. Right? Well, that is what saying here in John 15. He is saying, if you want to have joy, stay at home with me. Don't try to bolt out that front door and run towards something else. Don't chase after the things of this earth and this world. Don't look for and seek after and chase after the things that Satan offers you. I am your home and I want you to dwell with me. I want you to remain with me. I want you to stay with me. Because apart from me, you can do nothing. And that's the concept that is repeated over and over and over in just those four verses. John 15, verse 4 through 8. He says, My presence is where your joy will be found. And that should remind us of that beautiful psalm that says, in your presence there is fullness, fullness of joy.

Dr. Jessica Peck: It's so true. It's so true. And we're going to have some more joy filled songs when we come back. And I think of the song, the joy of the Lord is my strength. I love, love that verse from Nehemiah. and listen friends, pruning is not rejection, it's not punishment, it's discipline. It's intentional growth. And God's presence is with you. And if real joy begins with surrender, letting God shape us and staying close to him, there's also a response required from us. We'll be right back with that M.

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House of the Lord by Phil Wickham: We worship the God who was we worship the God who is we worship the God who evermore will be. He opened the prison door he parted the raging sea My God, he holds the victory. There's joy in the house of the Lord there's joy in the house of the Lord today We won't be quiet, we shout out your praise Joy in the house of the Lord Our God is sure in this place and we, we won't be quiet. We shout out

Dr. Jessica Peck: welcome back friends. That is Joy in the House of the Lord by Phil Wickham. And there is joy in the house of the Lord today. And guess what the good news about that is? You don't just have to go to church to find joy in the house of the Lord. Because reading from Scripture from First Corinthians, chapter six, starting in verse 19, do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your Own you were bought with a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. And we're talking about honoring the Lord today by finding joy. I'm talking to author Tara Dew and her book is called Overflowing Joy. What Jesus says about a joy filled life. Now, we have talked about how the counterfeit joy, that culture tries to give us just leads to exhaustion and frustration and the thief comes to to steal and kill and destroy. But Jesus has come that you may have life and have it to the fullest. That in him there is fullness of joy. And we've talked about three surprising pathways that Tara leads, lays out to find joy. That first one is through pruning, which may seem unpleasant for the moment, but is really for our good and for God's glory. And then we've talked about presence and Tara. That final pathway to joy moves us outward. It moves us to action. It's not just about what God is doing in us, but that, how that overflows into how we live and love others. And so let's talk about that pathway, that final pathway to God and perseverance, because I think we need a big dose of this today.

Tara Dew: Loving other people is difficult because they're sinners

Tara Dew: Yes, yes. So, Jesus continues after he talks about pruning and after he talks about in his presence where just to stay and dwell, he says, if you keep my commands, then you'll remain in my love, just as I've kept my Father's commands and remain in his love. And then he says, and this is my command. Love one another as I have loved you. And that is worded simply. But it is not easy to do. Loving other people is difficult because, well, they're sinners and loving them can be messy, right? And there's some people in our lives that are easy for us to love. These might be your children or your husband or your wife or your sister or your brother. but sometimes God puts people in our lives that are just downright difficult to love. Jesus says, this world will know that you are my disciples by your love for one another. And that's why it gave me a good third P, perseverance, presence and pruning. And it has those good three P's. But I put the word perseverance in there because loving other people, sometimes you want to give up. You grow weary in doing good. You grow weary in loving other people. But Jesus doesn't say love one another when you feel like it. He doesn't say love one another when it's easy. And he doesn't say love one another when it's your Friend and you like the same hop. He just says, love one another as I have loved you and Jessica. Like you said, greater love has no one than this that he lays down his life. And Jesus, sacrificially demonstrated God's love for us. While we were sinners, he died for us. And so when we persevere, when we keep loving, when we keep serving other people, we're participating in something pretty supernatural because this is not something that we can produce on our own. It's not something that we can just white knuckle it and try harder to do. It's something that the Holy Spirit has to produce in us. It's something that has to flow out of us because of Christ's love that's been poured into us. Our lives are like coffee cups or teacups, right? He is the never ending source that just gets poured into us. And then we are called to then overflow with that love to other people. And it's not something that we can fill up, it's not something that we can do on our own, but it's something that when we've received it from him, we're then able to share it with other people. And in the book, I get to dive into this a lot more of how do you practice his presence and then how do you really persevere in loving people that are difficult? Because unfortunately, we just don't have enough time to talk about all that today. I wish we did, but, it's all there in the book because I really dive into. When we preach the gospel to ourselves every day, and if we really realize who we were when Christ loved us, it then helps us to share that love to other people who are messed up or who are sinning themselves, right? But they are image bearers of God and He loves them. And you, wherever you might be, are the hands and feet of Jesus to that person. Maybe this is somebody that you work with. Maybe this is another parent at your kid's school. Maybe this is someone that you see at the grocery store or at your workplace, right? Or maybe this, this is a neighbor, or maybe this is an extended family member. But God has you in your circle, in your influence every day around that person. And they might never know Jesus, but they know you. And you can be the hands and feet of Jesus right where you are. And sometimes that means we've got to persevere in loving them. Even when it's difficult, even when it's hard, keep loving them, keep serving them. Because that's what Jesus has offered to us. He's offered us mercy when we didn't deserve it. He's offered us love when we didn't deserve it. And we as, his little branches, we as, ah, his little image bearers, are now called to share that with other people. And so I often remind myself, be like Dory and finding Nemo. Just keep swimming, just keep loving, Just keep loving. Because left to ourselves, we don't want to do that. But God's calling us to be like Dori and just keep loving the people that are around us.

Dr. Jessica Peck: You know, I love swimming around in the deep end here of John 15. That is where we are. Honestly, Tara and I would encourage my listeners if you have not been in the word of God in too long. You know, you're thinking, it's been too long. I haven't opened my Bible. Open your Bible to the book of Jon, read the story of Jesus, read the gospel presentation, Read what he did for you. And you. You. You're quoting this, verse from Jon 15 about love 1 another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. The beginning of that verse is a new commandment, a new command I give you. This is not something like, oh, hey, you know, if you, you. If you feel like it, if it works into your schedule and, you know, if there's good people around you. He starts that with very strong language saying, a, ah, command I have given you. And this can be. This is the tension I think we hold, Tara, because there's so many. You know, there's people from the outside, people who are not believers, people who are hostile to the Christian faith who would look and say, oh, you've just got to follow all these rules, and you're talking about pruning and discipline, and you can't do this, and you have to do this. And, and this commandment I give you. And yet with that is the path to a, fruitful life. That is the path to the fullness of joy. The other path that we know is narrow and it leads to destruction. And it may seem really, you know, inviting at first. It may seem like it's free at first. Oh, you don't have the. Those commandments, but those commandments are given for our good, for our benefit, for our joy. How do we. How do we balance that and navigate that tension that we have? But recognizing that this isn't just m. Something, a suggestion. This is if we're going to be sanctified like you talked about before, that path of sanctification, it starts with those commands. But they're for our good.

Tara Dew: That's exactly right. And I love how you set that up.

Jesus says salvation is through a narrow gate; we must follow it

I mean, there's this wide gate that the world is offering to all of us. But Jesus says salvation is through that narrow gate. And the ways of our God might not make sense to us, and they're definitely upside down and countercultural to the things of this world like we talked about. But we have to trust when he says in Matthew, chapter 6, verse 33, Seek first the kingdom of heaven, and then everything will be added to you. We've got to trust that his world, his kingdom, his economy is what's really valuable and not the things that this world offers to us. We are just passing through this world, but there is going to be a kingdom where we will live forever with Him. And in many ways, right now is just a small shadow of the things that are to come. But we trust that he sees and he knows and that you might be wondering, well, what's in this for me? Pruning is hard. Staying at home with God, well, that. That's hard. Persevering in other people, obeying this command, these are all really hard things. And what I would say to you is this. When you live the way God designed you to live, when we live the way he's created us to, there is joy in that. Because we can try to do the way the things of this world, we can try to live the way the world is offering, offering to us. But that world is not our Maker. That world is not our Creator. That world has a plan for us, but it's to kill and destroy us. But when we live the way God wants us to live, when we follow his commands, it will lead us to joy because it leads us to Him. And when we are obeying, when we are living holy lives, that truly will be happy too. It's not either. Or I can choose to be holy, or I can choose to be happy. No, when we live the way God wants us to live, we're living the way we were intended to. We're living the way he created us to live. And there is so much joy there. And there's joy in the life to come. He has given us life now and life eternal. But I think we have to just remind ourselves, I want to live the way God created me to live. And when I do, even though it's countercultural, even though it's not the way the world offers, even though it's this narrow gate, there will be satisfaction and contentment and gratitude because he saved our souls he has given us life and life abundantly, both for this life and for the life to come.

So much of this has to do with surrender. And I know you talk about that in the book, Tara

Dr. Jessica Peck: So much of this has to do with surrender. And I know you talk about that in the book, Tara, because when we talk about the pursuit of the American dream or the ways that we find joy, it's through hard work. It's through blood, sweat and tears. I mean, you pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Like we have all of this language in our culture to affirm, like achieving and succeeding and you know, just really arriving, like all of these things that require action. And all of a sudden we're going to come around this, you know, this Horiz in our life and the sun will shine and, and we will get the honor and glory and w. Riches that, you know, we, are. That are due to us. But again, in this upside down kingdom, it's really about surrender to the sovereignty of God, to recognize that his ways are higher than our ways, his thoughts are higher than our thoughts, that he is a father who loves to give good gifts to his children. Those gifts that we think are good here on earth that are going to. That moth and rust destroy, that, you know, the, the thief can come in and steal. He has come to give us eternal life. And we are living with an eternal perspective, recognizing that the following surrendering to the plan of God in our life is going to bring us joy, it's going to bring us hope, it's going to bring us healing on this world, but also for. For all of eternity. How do we shift our mindsets to. To stop pursuing joy? You know, we think about the pursuit of happiness, which is not a bad thing in and of itself and in all context. But how do we really live that radically countercultural life and just surrender?

Tara Dew: Yes, such a good, Such a good question. I love Romans 12:1 through 2 Do not conform to the patterns of this world. Don't be squeezed like Plato, into how this world thinks, but be transformed by the renewing of our minds. And the way we do that is we read our Bible, we become thinkers and processors, having the mind of Christ. And then Hebrews 12 tells us to lay aside every sin that would entangle us and to fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and the finisher of our faith, who for the joy set before him, endured the cross, despising its shame, and is now seated at the right hand of God. And so my prayer for myself, my prayer for the listeners, is that we wouldn't be conformed to the things of this world that our minds would be transformed by God that we would cast off and lay aside anything that could trip us up as we're running this race and that we would keep our eyes on Jesus us because truly our salvation and our relationship with our Savior, that's where our joy is found.

Dr. Jessica Peck: M Amen who for the joy set before him endured the cross. I mean that that is really, that is really it. We serve a God who knows us, who sees us, who loves us, who gave his son for us. And in this culture that's marked by exhaustion, we are reminded that joy isn't something that we chase. It's something that we receive from the Lord. It is a gift that he has given us and thank, thank God, thank God that we have a Christ centered joy that doesn't depend on our circumstances. The book is called Overflowing Joy. What Jesus says about a joy filled Life. It's by Tara Dew and I pray in your pursuit of joy that you would surrender and that the Lord would bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace and today give you the fullness of joy. We'll see you right back here next time.

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Jeff Chamblee: opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.