Rob West: One of the greatest benefits of values-aligned advice isn't simply what happens to your portfolio, but knowing your financial decisions reflect what matters most. Hi, I'm Rob West. New research shows that when financial counsel aligns with your faith, trust deepens, anxiety decreases, and success begins to mean more than investment performance. Sharon Epps is back to unpack what these findings mean for faithful stewardship. Then we'll take your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, we always enjoy our conversation with Sharon Epps. She's president of Kingdom Advisors, an organization that equips financial professionals to integrate biblical wisdom into the advice they provide and the way they serve their clients. Sharon, as always, great to have you back.
Sharon Epps: Good to be here, Rob, thanks.
Rob West: Sharon, today we're taking a closer look at new research the Pinkston Group did with our team here at Kingdom Advisors, and the findings are fascinating as you well know. One statistic is particularly eye-opening, and this is where I'd like to start. While 81% of Certified Kingdom Advisors offer values-based investing, only 15% of their clients actually use it. So let's talk about why that disconnect exists as a starting place.
Sharon Epps: Well, we don't know all the reasons for sure, but I think there are several. I think one thing is that there is a myth that I have to be satisfied with lower returns to invest my values, and that really is a myth. But the clients may not ask because of that. A second thing is I think there are advisors that offer faith- and value-led investments, but they think the clients are going to ask for it, and perhaps they are not sure how to bridge that conversation. I also think that sometimes people are focused as they walk into their stewardship journey, they're focused on giving as their first stewardship lever, and this idea that my portfolio could be aligned with my values just isn't quite to the surface yet. And well, I think for all of it, education is the solution: understanding what values screens mean, understanding what values investment is, and combining that with a disciplined strategy.
Rob West: Yeah, I think that's well-said. I mean, clearly, we're seeing far more awareness than ever before on the part of Christians. What I'm excited about is that when Christians understand that their values can be reflected truly in a well-thought-out, diversified portfolio, they're in. They want to know more. I think the idea that the advisors are bringing it up and Christians are coming along to this, let's call it a newer idea, is really exciting. But let's talk maybe for a second about the practical steps advisors and their clients can take to close this gap that's been uncovered with intentionality so that their faith is reflected in their investments.
Sharon Epps: Well, first of all, I think the conversation needs to start with a values check-in or values discovery before we look at how our investments are doing. And so as a client, I would ask your advisor, "Hey, are you clear on what's important to me?" And as an advisor, the same thing on the other side: "I want to be clear about what's important to you." And I do just have to say here, if your advisor's not comfortable in that conversation, you may want to consider checking out a Certified Kingdom Advisor because they've been trained to do that. But as you continue the conversation, you want to provide some side-by-side comparisons of screened funds, if you're using that avoid strategy where you're screening out for things that don't align with your values, to see and make sure that your returns are what you expect them to be, and to debunk that myth I talked about on the underperformance. I think as an advisor, as you're moving into this, one idea is to offer a pilot sleeve or just a test amount to the client where they're not moving 100% of their funds into values-aligned choices, but maybe they just start with 10 or 15% and watch together how they perform. And then finally, I think celebration is important—celebrating not only the financial returns, but the impact stories that have made a difference not only in your portfolio, but also in Kingdom purposes.
Rob West: Yeah, that's well-said. Well, we're going to head into this break here in just a moment. But Sharon mentioned, perhaps a next step for you is to find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in your area, and you can do that quickly and easily at findacka.com. There's more than 2,000 across the nation that have met the high standards to earn the gold standard in biblically wise financial advice: Certified Kingdom Advisor. Again, that website is findacka.com. When we come back, we'll continue to unpack this fascinating research about the difference between advice from a Certified Kingdom Advisor and advice from a traditional advisor with Sharon Epps. Don't go anywhere. We're just getting started.
David Wollen: For your walk with Jesus, I'm David Wollen with Haven Today, inviting you to anchor your day in God's word. Thirst is a gift. Without water, our bodies would die. So, when we're thirsty, it's like a warning light telling us: hydrate, now! Well, in the same way, spiritual thirst is a gift, but it's more easily ignored. You might tell yourself you have no time to read your Bible or to make time for church. But the longer that kind of thing goes on, the soul becomes thirsty. Like it says in Psalm 42: "As a deer pants for flowing streams, so pants my soul for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God." What about you? Are you thirsty? If not, maybe ask the Lord today to let you feel your thirst. That would be a wonderful gift. Get more encouragement for your walk with Jesus; visit haventoday.org.
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Rob West: What sets a Certified Kingdom Advisor apart? Well, we now have empirical data that tells us just that. Sharon Epps is here today. She's president of Kingdom Advisors, and we partnered with Pinkston Research to do the largest study that's ever been conducted looking at the difference between the advice given by and the outcomes of a Certified Kingdom Advisor and his or her client versus traditional advisors and their clients. And Sharon, fascinating data coming out of this study. I want to continue to unpack it. One of the things the study suggests is around this idea that the benefits deepen over time. CKA clients who have worked with their advisor for more than five years report a 66% reduction in financial anxiety, compared with 49% among those in shorter relationships. So why does that sense of financial peace tend to grow over time in your mind?
Sharon Epps: Well, I think trust is cumulative as the advisor gets to know you and your family more, and you know the advisor more. You're building a story together, and they're really a partner in that. And so the advisor, particularly a Kingdom Advisor that is giving biblical counsel, also helps you and holds you accountable for living out the values that you say you want to. I think the other thing is that long-term planning does perform better than reactive decisions, and we also know that that decreases stress. I'm not constantly watching the market's ups and downs. I know that there's a long-term game plan, and I have a financial advisor that reminds me we're in it for the long haul. I think also just having the opportunity to share Scripture and prayer with your advisor reshapes your identity so that you totally understand that God's the owner and that you're the steward. And so you can say, "God, what do you want me to do with your money?" And that just relieves a lot of stress. And then market cycles also help us see that the advisor's guidance is reliable. It reinforces peace that even when things are down, there's a plan, we're working the plan, and we're trusting God.
Rob West: Yeah, I think that's well-said. Another interesting finding, Sharon, was that only 20% of CKA clients said fees are the primary factor in choosing an advisor. Why do you think that was so much lower than traditional advisors' clients?
Sharon Epps: Well, while we all want to be good stewards in managing our money, I think the big thing is this idea of values alignment. And quite frankly, when our values are aligned, I expect better performance because the advisor is investing the way that makes a difference to my goals and to my objectives. And so the advice becomes more of a partnership. It's not just a commodity; I'm not just checking for the lowest price that I can get. I think it also includes this idea of holistic planning. We are not only paying for an investment return; we're really having an accountability partner that's helping walk out the discipleship that we believe God's called us through using this tool of money. Now, of course, we want our advisor to be transparent about their fees, and we want to understand exactly where they're going, and we don't want to be overcharged. But we can focus on the fruit of what we're doing and not just that singular expense.
Rob West: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Now, there was some data coming out of the study related to the next generation that was really encouraging. We're talking about younger clients, ages 18 to 41, and 52% say shared values are extremely important. So what does that tell you about the future of the financial advice profession, Sharon?
Sharon Epps: Well, I could spend a long time talking about the next generation, and, you know, sometimes we talk about challenges in the next generation, but this is really a win and something we're really excited about. And that is, studies show us that younger believers want alignment in their life and their money, and they want to be sure that it tells the same story. While older generations have tended to have this secular/sacred divide, the younger generation is really not seeing money as something "that valuable" on its own. They're seeing it as a tool, just like we teach. And so they're used to having personalization and choice in all the areas of their life, and they believe, "Well, for sure that needs to be true in my investing, too. My values need to be shown there because I get to show my values in the rest of my life as well." And so if advisors are not paying attention to this values alignment conversation with the next generation, there's a real risk of losing them to those advisors that do. I think the other thing is it's a wonderful discipleship journey to help a younger client see the wisdom that comes from the Lord and their role as a steward.
Rob West: Yeah. There was a lot of data, Sharon, as well, coming out around advisors and really seeing their work line up with their life purpose. It was dramatically higher with Certified Kingdom Advisors versus traditional advisors, and really changing their scorecard where Kingdom impact was the primary driver. That's something we would have hoped for, and it was really encouraging, wasn't it?
Sharon Epps: It was, and don't we all want an advisor who's excited to come to work on Monday and also is seeing the impact of the work that they do? And so for these advisors, we want to be clear: performance does matter. Their scorecard, though, is bigger. They're looking at: How are we helping our clients experience peace? How are we promoting generosity and Kingdom growth? And so this Certified Kingdom Advisor is helping you look to the Lord for direction, and celebrates with you when success happens. And that success can be faithfulness to your purpose, and you can grow that story together over years and years. And what a beautiful relationship and something special to celebrate!
Rob West: It really is. Sharon, we were also excited to see that clients of CKAs were twice as likely to say their giving had "significantly increased" since working with their Certified Kingdom Advisor. So, in addition to values alignment about investments and communication and family matters, they are moving toward a more generous life, aren't they?
Sharon Epps: They really are, and that's a Kingdom measure. Because if you think about it, many advisors are paid for assets under management, and yet they see the Kingdom impact and encourage their clients to give, knowing that God's the one that provides.
Rob West: Yeah, really is. Sharon, just a minute left. So for someone who's listening today and resonating with what you're saying, and perhaps they're saying, "I want that kind of advice," what could they look for from a CKA even in that very first meeting?
Sharon Epps: Well, first of all, you want to have questions from the advisor learning more about you and your values, not just the facts, but understanding what's important to you. You'll want to ask them questions about, "How do you integrate faith into your client counsel? How can we talk about it together?" And then mostly, pray about it and trust the Holy Spirit to direct you for the best advisor.
Rob West: Excellent. And Sharon, if there's an advisor listening today who's a Christ-follower and they're resonating with what you're saying, I'd love for you to speak to that advisor for just a moment about their opportunity as they engage with Kingdom Advisors.
Sharon Epps: Well, we want to encourage you to join us because we are a group of committed advisors who want to help every advisor live in community and be equipped to confidently have these conversations.
Rob West: That's well-said. Proverbs 19:20: "Listen to advice and accept instruction that you may gain wisdom in the future." That's our heart's desire for everyone as they engage with an advisor who understands the heart of God and the counsel of Scripture so that they can steward God's money God's way. Sharon, thanks for your time today.
Sharon Epps: Glad to be here.
Rob West: Folks, if you'd like to find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in your area, head to the website findacka.com. That's findacka.com. Back with your questions after this: 800-525-7000. I'm Rob West, and you're listening to Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right back after this break.
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Announcer: As the leading advocate for the Christian financial industry, Kingdom Advisors serves the public by promoting the integration of a biblical worldview across every aspect of the financial services industry. And we serve a growing network of thousands of Christian financial professionals, equipping and empowering them to carry biblical financial wisdom to their clients, peers, and community. For more information, visit kingdomadvisors.com. That's kingdomadvisors.com.
Rob West: So thankful to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. And always good to have Sharon Epps in the studio. You know, this idea that we would allow our values to intersect with our financial decisions is exactly right. You know, I really believe the future of financial advice is values-driven. Because if you think about it, you know, AI and technology advances, they can create a financial plan and help you run a Monte Carlo simulation—that's a fancy term for the likelihood that your plan is going to allow you to not run out of assets in the future. It can even help you build a portfolio, but it can't help you think about the impact of the money on the kids. It can't help you think about whether money has become an idol. It can't help you think about how much is enough for your lifestyle. It can't help you think about how you honor the heart of God in Scripture with regard to your giving. It really can't help you think about honoring your convictions as you deploy capital in investments.
And so I think really the future of financial advice is yes, about leveraging technology, what we call FinTech, which is, you know, the really effective smartphone apps that you have on your phone that's driving costs down and helping you manage global instantaneous transactions quicker than ever. And yes, there's a tool there for just keeping up with and staying on top of and planning for the financial aspects, but it's really the non-financial aspects that I think is so key for that advisor who can, yes, bring wise tax planning, and yes, build a a really thoughtful, diversified, risk-adjusted portfolio, but also help you think about what we read in Scripture, what is on the heart of God related to how we handle money. That Jesus is our ultimate treasure, and God owns it all, and money is a tool, and faithfulness is the measure. And that ultimately, we need to be surrendered to God's purposes, but that money is a good gift and can be used to love our neighbor and protect the vulnerable and advance the Gospel.
And that's the opportunity that we have, and that's why I'm so excited about this movement that's taking place in the financial services industry. Now a true industry of Christian financial advice that exists, that didn't exist in this way even just a few years ago. But every major firm on board, products being created for Christians, solutions that are coming to bear, advisors who are bringing their faith to work and thinking about leaning into their client conversations for God's glory and for Kingdom advancement, and yes, to serve their clients even better on a daily basis. That's what we're experiencing right now, as just there's this wave going on right now that I get to see every day because of the seat I sit in, but this this movement of Christian financial advice that is really exciting. And here's one of the great things about it, is there is more money flowing into Kingdom purposes now than we've ever seen, and it's a good it's a good time for it because we together, you and I, are living in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world.
And so when we can hold loosely what God has entrusted to us and give it generously, and be content with what we have, and not get caught up in the comparison trap, wow, what an opportunity to invest and give in a way that really reflects what's truly important, what you and I value most. Well, that's what's happening at Kingdom Advisors. So if you're an advisor listening today, we'd love to have you join us. Kingdomadvisors.com, consider getting the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation. Here's one of the fun things. You know, Sharon mentioned, if you're listening today and you want an advisor who shares your values, you can go to findacka.com and find one in your area. There's now more than 2,000 of them. But here's one of the other things that's exciting, is those searches at findacka were up 54% last year, and in just the first year of our first month of our new fiscal year, just for the month of July alone, we saw another 30% jump over the prior July. So, huge year last year, but it looks like the increases are continuing as more and more of God's people are saying, "Yeah, I want an advisor who's competent. I want an advisor who has plenty of experience, and is ethically sound, and has had a regulatory review, but I also want an advisor who has had a pastor reference, and has been trained to bring a biblical worldview to financial decision-making. I want an advisor who aligns with my values as a Christ-follower," and more and more believers are saying that every day, and we're seeing that bear out in the data.
So if that's you and you want to know how you can connect with an advisor, well, it's easy. Just go to findacka.com. You can do a search. I'd interview two or three. Find the one that's the best fit for you, that fits your asset mix, and fits your needs from a financial planning standpoint, and fits their practice in terms of they were equipped to serve somebody who's similar to your situation, and that you have a good rapport with. You can do that again: findacka.com.
Well, in just a moment, we're going to begin taking your calls and questions, so if you've got a financial question today, whether it's something related to giving, saving, spending, investing, whatever it is today, I'd love to be able to help you navigate that through the lens of biblical wisdom, but with really practical next steps. And so call right now. The team is standing by. We've got lines open. We will dive into those questions here in just a moment. The number: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Call right now, we've got lines available for you, and in that next segment coming up here in just a moment, we'll dive into those questions: 800-525-7000.
Also in our final segment today, Bob Doll stops by. We'll get Bob's take on what's moving the markets. Market opening slightly lower today as we still have a couple of things weighing on the markets. A new inflation measure out today, we'll get Bob's take on that in the final segment today. That's putting a little pressure as this sticky inflation continues, a little pressure on the S&P 500 today, down just modestly. But the bigger question is, where is this economy headed? What about oil? We're headed toward midterm elections. We've got a lot of factors swirling here, and we'll get Bob to weigh in on all of it. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. We would love to be able to tackle those questions.
Let me also mention, in the news today, health insurance costs continue to put pressure on family budgets, especially for people who purchase their own coverage. You're familiar with this, and by the way, a new Associated Press report highlights the challenges facing in particular many Floridians after enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies expired earlier in the year. You know, for some Christian families, just given the rising health insurance premiums across the board, where this is one of their largest expenses and with premiums significantly increasing, don't assume your plan is the only option. It's a good time to compare available alternatives, and for some Christians, a biblical medical cost-sharing ministry may be worth considering. It's not health insurance, but it's Christians coming together to share each other's medical bills. Our friends at chministries.org would love to help: chministries.org. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We're going to take your calls and questions here in just a moment. We've got lines open. Call right now with any financial question: 800-525-7000.
Before the break, I was mentioning our friends at Christian Healthcare Ministries. A great alternative, especially in this environment with rising health insurance premiums—one of the largest expenses in a household budget, particularly for self-employed individuals and retirees who are not yet available or eligible for Medicare, and families without an employer-sponsored coverage. Even if you've got it, sometimes it's just too cost-prohibitive.
Well, many Christian families are now looking for a biblical medical cost-sharing alternative. Christian Healthcare Ministries, a long-time FaithFi underwriter, since 1981, CHM has really helped members share more than—you ready?—$13 billion with a "b" in medical expenses while encouraging a biblical approach to bear one another's burdens, and often at a lower cost than traditional health insurance.
Depending on what option you choose, you need to understand what's covered and what isn't, and your potential out-of-pocket expenses, but it's often really the least expensive option for many families to have the ability to offset the cost of healthcare. If you want to learn more about it, just head to faithfi.com/chm, which stands for Christian Healthcare Ministries. By the way, they're the oldest in this space: faithfi.com/chm.
All right, let's dive into those questions. We're going to begin in Alabama. Christine, go ahead.
Christine: Hello! Yes, thank you for taking my call.
Rob West: Sure.
Christine: I have a question about an HSA. I'm newly retired, and I haven't had an HSA with my company. Is it worth it to take money out of my IRA and put it into the HSA? What would be the benefit of that?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, there is this particular option available. It's a special provision that allows a one-time transfer—excuse me—from an IRA directly into an HSA. It's called a Qualified HSA Funding Distribution, and it's for a newly retired person. It can be attractive if you're in that situation, but eligibility is the key.
In terms of the benefits, you know, the IRA money moving directly to the HSA without being included in your taxable income is the real benefit. Because once it's in the HSA, it grows tax-free, and then it comes out tax-free for qualified medical expenses. Which is different than your IRA—you got the deduction going in, but you pay the tax on it as it comes out. Not so with the HSA.
So, if you have this one-time opportunity to take this pre-tax money and move it to the HSA without incurring tax, and then pull it out completely tax-free for qualified medical expenses, you know, then you're putting yourself into a situation where you're really advantaged from a tax standpoint.
The transfer counts toward your HSA contribution limit for that year, so you can't transfer the entire balance. It's got to be a trustee-to-trustee transfer, so it has to go from your IRA custodian to the HSA.
And then one of the key eligibility requirements is that you have to still be HSA-eligible. So, retirement itself doesn't disqualify you, but enrolling in Medicare does, for the purposes of making additional HSA contributions.
There's also what's called a testing period, and so you would want to look at that just to make sure. That extends through the 12th month following the month of the transfer. So, if you lose your HSA eligibility during that period through the 12th month following the transfer, then that can become taxable and then potentially even with the 10% penalty.
So, you just need to look at whether it's possible, but if it is, I like it a lot for the reasons I mentioned.
Christine: Oh, okay. Okay. So, I'm sorry, I am driving, so I kind of lost you for a minute. So, when you said Medicare, I am only 62, so I'm not 65 or yet for Medicare. So, I still can do that, right?
Rob West: That's right. Yes. So, you have to be HSA-eligible, which means you have to be not on Medicare, which you're not. You also need to be covered by an HSA-qualified, high-deductible health plan. And so, if you're still HSA-eligible for new contributions, then you have the ability to do this funding direct from the IRA up to the HSA contribution limit for the year, one time.
Christine: Perfect. Okay, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thank you so much, I appreciate your help!
Rob West: Absolutely, Christine. Thanks for your call today. All the best to you.
800-525-7000 is the number to call. We've got a few lines open, taking your questions on anything financial, whether it's giving, saving, spending—we'd love to chat about it: 800-525-7000.
Let's go to Ohio. Hi, Jan, go ahead.
Jan: Hi! I am so excited to be able to talk to you, because I don't know what to do.
I have some kids that I'm very much concerned about—a young married couple. And they have a lot of credit card debt. Some years back—I don't know how long—but anyway, they actually got a loan to pay off all the credit cards, and then, of course, habits being what they are, they just went right back into using credit cards whenever there were low enough available finances or whatever.
And so now, they've got a large amount of credit card debt plus the loan payment. I suggested, you know, talking to like a debt management company, you know, to see if they could get help. My daughter, she wants—she would really want to have another loan, you know, just wipe that all out again. But they're not eligible, obviously, to be able to get a loan.
And she said regarding debt management companies that they ruin your credit, and they'll make you close your cards and all of that stuff. They're really in a bad place, and I regret like crazy that I did not teach my children to tithe. They saw my husband and I do it their whole life, but I did not make a point of teaching it to them, because I know tithing is a major thing. But what have you got to say about this?
Rob West: Well, I'm so glad you're walking alongside them. And you know what? Even if they could get another loan, it would just repeat—that cycle would repeat. Because until we fix the underlying issue, we're treating the symptom, and it ultimately is going to result in more challenges. Because at the end of the day, we've got to right-size spending. They've got to be able to spend less than they earn and do it for a long time. That's the key to every financial success.
And just rolling up this debt into a new consolidation loan, taking the pressure off, not changing the underlying habits of the money management, you know, is going to result in you calling me back six months from now and saying, "Okay, now we've got two consolidation loans and the credit card debt's back." I mean, there's no reason to believe that cycle is going to change.
You know, the money management principles—and you know these—are: we've got to live within our means, we've got to avoid debt, we've got to set long-term goals, we've got to have margin (something left over at the end of the month), and we've got to give generously. And then we've got to do that over and over again for a lifetime. And it's easier said than done, as you know. They're simple principles, hard to live by.
What they need is, in fact, a debt management program, because we won't roll it up into a new loan and take the pressure off; we'll leave it right where it is, drop the interest rates, the cards will close (which is what needs to happen, because they need to go on a cash budget), but with the interest rates lower, if we can build in the monthly payment very similar to what they're already doing, now we'll get the balances coming down. Our friends at faithfi.com/ccc can help. Stay on the line.
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Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. We will head back to the phones here in just a moment, but first, Bob Doll's here. Bob's our go-to guy on the markets. He's the CIO and CEO at Crossmark Global Investments, a leader in faith-based investing. You can check it out at crossmarkglobal.com. Bob, market off slightly today, I guess reacting to this inflation report. What did we learn this morning?
Bob Doll: Yeah, the Fed's favorite inflation indicator, the PCE, came out today, and it was for the month 0.25%, so a quarter percent. Consensus was 0.2%, so modestly worse than expected, and that's why the market's kind of on a sideways move.
Rob West: Yeah, no doubt about it. Bob, when economists and market leaders get together, they either go to Davos or, in this case, heading out to Jackson Hole—not a bad gig. But when they gather there, between what Bessesnt is doing and what Walsh is navigating, there are a lot of crosscurrents going on here, aren't there?
Bob Doll: Yeah, no question. I would add to it more rumors about a potential Strait of Hormuz deal. These all come together. I mean, if oil prices stay firmer, both the Fed and the Treasury's job of trying to keep a lid on interest rates is harder than if oil prices drop because we do have an agreement. So I think that's the wild card that people will be watching. But you're right, lots of conversation. There was an attempt, as you know, last week and so far this week by the Treasury to buy more long-dated securities in the hope to keep long-term interest rates from continuing to rise. So far, so good, but they're still at that 10-year at 4.66%, down nearly 10 basis points from the high, but still problematic versus the last few months.
Rob West: Yeah, and you've got to believe that these mortgage rates heading back up to these high levels are going to have an impact on the economy on top of everything else, including oil, right?
Bob Doll: Absolutely. As you know, the housing market's been a little on the sloppy side now for a bunch of months, and the mortgage rate is among the key reasons.
Rob West: Bob, what is being discussed right now with the Strait? I mean, I know it's on-again, off-again—it has been for a while—but what's the latest?
Bob Doll: Yeah, the latest from my Washington sources is the President's concerned about the midterms, no question about that. It seems opinion polls are saying, "Get out of this war. Just get out. No more picking fights in the Middle East." He's watching those polls; his popularity's down a lot, his disapproval rating's up, and maybe he's got to turn tail and move away from further conflict there, at least for now. We'll see, but that's the rumor out of DC today.
Rob West: Interesting. Bob, just as you look overall at this market and think about everything you just said, plus the midterms on the way, where do you think we head for the balance of the year?
Bob Doll: Yeah, it's funny, that's the exact question I was asked on our weekly investment call here at Crossmark, and my response was, "Tell me how good earnings are going to be." I mean, so far, no matter what we've thrown at this market—and we've thrown a lot at it, Rob: the war, $100 oil, you know the list—the market's been fine. The answer is because earnings have been off the charts. If earnings are fine, these negatives can accumulate and not have a big impact. But if earnings growth begins to slow, then these accumulating concerns could weigh on the market. And let's face it, for some time now, we've gone sideways. We haven't made a lot of forward progress.
Rob West: Yeah. But what's amazing, Bob, even though they're ratcheting down some of the expectations, at least at this point, the consensus is another strong 2027 in terms of earnings, right?
Bob Doll: Yeah, absolutely. The consensus right now is up 13%, which is almost double the long-term earnings growth for corporate America. So, slowing from a higher number of expectation, but still a very strong one.
Rob West: Incredible. Thanks, my friend. We appreciate your time.
Bob Doll: Enjoy. Bye-bye.
Rob West: All right, that's Bob Doll. He's CEO and CIO at Crossmark Global Investments. You'll see him if you ever turn on CNBC or Fox Business regularly. He's a Christ-follower, he's a veteran on Wall Street, and he's our go-to guy here on Faith and Finance. He joins us each week. Again, that website: crossmarkglobal.com. All right, let's round out the broadcast today. We'll try to get to a couple of additional questions. Let's head to North Carolina. Terry, thanks for your patience. Go ahead.
Terry: Yes, sir. I'm 62 years old now, and I could start receiving my Social Security benefits, and I have an opportunity to do that. My wife could go to work—she hadn't worked much, so she doesn't have a lot that she could draw on Social Security—and she would be hiring me. I'm wondering how that would affect my tax implications.
Rob West: Yeah, it's a great question. Well, there are really two separate questions here: whether or not to claim Social Security at 62, and whether or not it makes sense for your wife to hire you as an employee. If she of course has a legitimate business, which I'm sure she does, and you perform legitimate work for reasonable compensation, then she could absolutely hire you as an employee. If she operates the business and directs your work, then the IRS is going to generally treat you as an employee, so your wages are going to be subject to income tax withholding plus Social Security and Medicare. If it's a sole proprietorship spouse employment situation, the wages generally aren't subject to the federal unemployment tax. You know, your wages become a business expense for her business, which reduces its taxable business profit. Meanwhile, you report the wages as taxable income. So you're not creating a magical deduction; the income is effectively moving from business profit to your W-2 wages. There can nevertheless be planning benefits. So, for example, legitimate earned income could allow you to make retirement plan contributions, and additional Social Security covered earnings could potentially even improve your eventual Social Security benefit if they were replacing any lower years in your 35-year earnings history. Social Security at 62 is really the big issue. If you started at 62 while working for your wife, your wages count toward the earnings test, which means if you go above the threshold, they're going to withhold a dollar for every two dollars of benefits you earn. You'll eventually get that back, but you just need to know that. And you are ultimately going to have a permanent early claiming reduction compared to waiting until full retirement age. So if you guys don't need the money, especially if you're going back to work for her, then I'd probably recommend you hold off on taking that Social Security and let it just continue to build. But give me any questions or follow-ups you have on that.
Terry: Okay. Well, she hasn't worked that much, so I thought if she could go to work now, she would be making about $110,000 a year, and I would be drawing about $2,300 a month. It would help her when she went to draw her Social Security.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, so what is the business? Is this a business she's starting or one she's been operating for a while?
Terry: No, she has an opportunity to go to work for another place, and she would hire me under her to do work under her. I could work basically for whatever I could make in a year's time.
Rob West: Okay, yes. Okay, and then yeah, then she has the ability to hire you under that new employment situation, is that right?
Terry: That's right. Actually, I work for the company now; she would be moving into my place, and I would be moving under her. It's basically what it is.
Rob West: Okay, got it. Yeah, so that makes sense. I think what you just need to understand is, you know, you'd be making that $2,300 a month, about $27,000 a year. If you claim at 62 and you don't... the earnings test would apply, but you'd be, for most of that income, underneath it, so you wouldn't have much of a reduction. You probably wouldn't replace any lower earning years, so you're probably not going to get a bump in your Social Security. So I think the big question is again: do you want to take that early Social Security with the permanent reduction, or do you want to hold off on that and let it grow?
Terry: Okay, okay.
Rob West: But I don't see any problem with the plan overall. I think you're in good shape here.
Terry: All right. Hey, I appreciate it, sir, and thank you for your professional advice.
Rob West: Absolutely, Terry. Thanks for your call. Quickly to Mississippi. Robin, you'll be our final caller. We've just about two minutes. Go ahead.
Robin: Yes, sir. I'm 69, retired, and I work about 4 to 8 weeks a year. I contract myself out as a construction safety manager. I get paid on a 1099 from a recruiting company, and I get paid a daily per diem. There's situations where that daily per diem can be non-taxable. From what I've read in the IRS, is there anything special I should be looking at, or...
Rob West: Yeah, it's a great question. So, essentially, because you're paid on a 1099, I would not assume that something labeled daily per diem is automatically tax-free. The rules for independent contractors are different from a straightforward employee accountable plan reimbursement. You know, so it really depends on how they account for it. The big issue is your tax home, so to have a deductible travel expense, you need to be traveling away from your home ultimately. So what I would probably do is check with your CPA on this, because if the company pays you a daily allowance and you don't adequately account to the client for the qualifying travel expense, the allowance generally has to be included in your income, and then you could be able to deduct the qualifying business travel expenses on Schedule C. So it gets a little complicated and you want to get it right. So I would probably connect with a CPA if you don't have one and just kind of walk through that so you understand the per diem rate, how it needs to be classified, whether or not it's taxable, and if it is, can it then be deductible on Schedule C. Robin, appreciate your call today. Thanks for being a part of the program. Big thanks to my team today: Patty, Pat, Devin, Taylor, and everybody here at FaithFi. Come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.
Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
Rob West: One of the greatest benefits of values-aligned advice isn't simply what happens to your portfolio, but knowing your financial decisions reflect what matters most. Hi, I'm Rob West. New research shows that when financial counsel aligns with your faith, trust deepens, anxiety decreases, and success begins to mean more than investment performance. Sharon Epps is back to unpack what these findings mean for faithful stewardship. Then we'll take your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, we always enjoy our conversation with Sharon Epps. She's president of Kingdom Advisors, an organization that equips financial professionals to integrate biblical wisdom into the advice they provide and the way they serve their clients. Sharon, as always, great to have you back.
Sharon Epps: Good to be here, Rob, thanks.
Rob West: Sharon, today we're taking a closer look at new research the Pinkston Group did with our team here at Kingdom Advisors, and the findings are fascinating as you well know. One statistic is particularly eye-opening, and this is where I'd like to start. While 81% of Certified Kingdom Advisors offer values-based investing, only 15% of their clients actually use it. So let's talk about why that disconnect exists as a starting place.
Sharon Epps: Well, we don't know all the reasons for sure, but I think there are several. I think one thing is that there is a myth that I have to be satisfied with lower returns to invest my values, and that really is a myth. But the clients may not ask because of that. A second thing is I think there are advisors that offer faith- and value-led investments, but they think the clients are going to ask for it, and perhaps they are not sure how to bridge that conversation. I also think that sometimes people are focused as they walk into their stewardship journey, they're focused on giving as their first stewardship lever, and this idea that my portfolio could be aligned with my values just isn't quite to the surface yet. And well, I think for all of it, education is the solution: understanding what values screens mean, understanding what values investment is, and combining that with a disciplined strategy.
Rob West: Yeah, I think that's well-said. I mean, clearly, we're seeing far more awareness than ever before on the part of Christians. What I'm excited about is that when Christians understand that their values can be reflected truly in a well-thought-out, diversified portfolio, they're in. They want to know more. I think the idea that the advisors are bringing it up and Christians are coming along to this, let's call it a newer idea, is really exciting. But let's talk maybe for a second about the practical steps advisors and their clients can take to close this gap that's been uncovered with intentionality so that their faith is reflected in their investments.
Sharon Epps: Well, first of all, I think the conversation needs to start with a values check-in or values discovery before we look at how our investments are doing. And so as a client, I would ask your advisor, "Hey, are you clear on what's important to me?" And as an advisor, the same thing on the other side: "I want to be clear about what's important to you." And I do just have to say here, if your advisor's not comfortable in that conversation, you may want to consider checking out a Certified Kingdom Advisor because they've been trained to do that. But as you continue the conversation, you want to provide some side-by-side comparisons of screened funds, if you're using that avoid strategy where you're screening out for things that don't align with your values, to see and make sure that your returns are what you expect them to be, and to debunk that myth I talked about on the underperformance. I think as an advisor, as you're moving into this, one idea is to offer a pilot sleeve or just a test amount to the client where they're not moving 100% of their funds into values-aligned choices, but maybe they just start with 10 or 15% and watch together how they perform. And then finally, I think celebration is important—celebrating not only the financial returns, but the impact stories that have made a difference not only in your portfolio, but also in Kingdom purposes.
Rob West: Yeah, that's well-said. Well, we're going to head into this break here in just a moment. But Sharon mentioned, perhaps a next step for you is to find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in your area, and you can do that quickly and easily at findacka.com. There's more than 2,000 across the nation that have met the high standards to earn the gold standard in biblically wise financial advice: Certified Kingdom Advisor. Again, that website is findacka.com. When we come back, we'll continue to unpack this fascinating research about the difference between advice from a Certified Kingdom Advisor and advice from a traditional advisor with Sharon Epps. Don't go anywhere. We're just getting started.
David Wollen: For your walk with Jesus, I'm David Wollen with Haven Today, inviting you to anchor your day in God's word. Thirst is a gift. Without water, our bodies would die. So, when we're thirsty, it's like a warning light telling us: hydrate, now! Well, in the same way, spiritual thirst is a gift, but it's more easily ignored. You might tell yourself you have no time to read your Bible or to make time for church. But the longer that kind of thing goes on, the soul becomes thirsty. Like it says in Psalm 42: "As a deer pants for flowing streams, so pants my soul for you, O God. My soul thirsts for God." What about you? Are you thirsty? If not, maybe ask the Lord today to let you feel your thirst. That would be a wonderful gift. Get more encouragement for your walk with Jesus; visit haventoday.org.
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Rob West: What sets a Certified Kingdom Advisor apart? Well, we now have empirical data that tells us just that. Sharon Epps is here today. She's president of Kingdom Advisors, and we partnered with Pinkston Research to do the largest study that's ever been conducted looking at the difference between the advice given by and the outcomes of a Certified Kingdom Advisor and his or her client versus traditional advisors and their clients. And Sharon, fascinating data coming out of this study. I want to continue to unpack it. One of the things the study suggests is around this idea that the benefits deepen over time. CKA clients who have worked with their advisor for more than five years report a 66% reduction in financial anxiety, compared with 49% among those in shorter relationships. So why does that sense of financial peace tend to grow over time in your mind?
Sharon Epps: Well, I think trust is cumulative as the advisor gets to know you and your family more, and you know the advisor more. You're building a story together, and they're really a partner in that. And so the advisor, particularly a Kingdom Advisor that is giving biblical counsel, also helps you and holds you accountable for living out the values that you say you want to. I think the other thing is that long-term planning does perform better than reactive decisions, and we also know that that decreases stress. I'm not constantly watching the market's ups and downs. I know that there's a long-term game plan, and I have a financial advisor that reminds me we're in it for the long haul. I think also just having the opportunity to share Scripture and prayer with your advisor reshapes your identity so that you totally understand that God's the owner and that you're the steward. And so you can say, "God, what do you want me to do with your money?" And that just relieves a lot of stress. And then market cycles also help us see that the advisor's guidance is reliable. It reinforces peace that even when things are down, there's a plan, we're working the plan, and we're trusting God.
Rob West: Yeah, I think that's well-said. Another interesting finding, Sharon, was that only 20% of CKA clients said fees are the primary factor in choosing an advisor. Why do you think that was so much lower than traditional advisors' clients?
Sharon Epps: Well, while we all want to be good stewards in managing our money, I think the big thing is this idea of values alignment. And quite frankly, when our values are aligned, I expect better performance because the advisor is investing the way that makes a difference to my goals and to my objectives. And so the advice becomes more of a partnership. It's not just a commodity; I'm not just checking for the lowest price that I can get. I think it also includes this idea of holistic planning. We are not only paying for an investment return; we're really having an accountability partner that's helping walk out the discipleship that we believe God's called us through using this tool of money. Now, of course, we want our advisor to be transparent about their fees, and we want to understand exactly where they're going, and we don't want to be overcharged. But we can focus on the fruit of what we're doing and not just that singular expense.
Rob West: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Now, there was some data coming out of the study related to the next generation that was really encouraging. We're talking about younger clients, ages 18 to 41, and 52% say shared values are extremely important. So what does that tell you about the future of the financial advice profession, Sharon?
Sharon Epps: Well, I could spend a long time talking about the next generation, and, you know, sometimes we talk about challenges in the next generation, but this is really a win and something we're really excited about. And that is, studies show us that younger believers want alignment in their life and their money, and they want to be sure that it tells the same story. While older generations have tended to have this secular/sacred divide, the younger generation is really not seeing money as something "that valuable" on its own. They're seeing it as a tool, just like we teach. And so they're used to having personalization and choice in all the areas of their life, and they believe, "Well, for sure that needs to be true in my investing, too. My values need to be shown there because I get to show my values in the rest of my life as well." And so if advisors are not paying attention to this values alignment conversation with the next generation, there's a real risk of losing them to those advisors that do. I think the other thing is it's a wonderful discipleship journey to help a younger client see the wisdom that comes from the Lord and their role as a steward.
Rob West: Yeah. There was a lot of data, Sharon, as well, coming out around advisors and really seeing their work line up with their life purpose. It was dramatically higher with Certified Kingdom Advisors versus traditional advisors, and really changing their scorecard where Kingdom impact was the primary driver. That's something we would have hoped for, and it was really encouraging, wasn't it?
Sharon Epps: It was, and don't we all want an advisor who's excited to come to work on Monday and also is seeing the impact of the work that they do? And so for these advisors, we want to be clear: performance does matter. Their scorecard, though, is bigger. They're looking at: How are we helping our clients experience peace? How are we promoting generosity and Kingdom growth? And so this Certified Kingdom Advisor is helping you look to the Lord for direction, and celebrates with you when success happens. And that success can be faithfulness to your purpose, and you can grow that story together over years and years. And what a beautiful relationship and something special to celebrate!
Rob West: It really is. Sharon, we were also excited to see that clients of CKAs were twice as likely to say their giving had "significantly increased" since working with their Certified Kingdom Advisor. So, in addition to values alignment about investments and communication and family matters, they are moving toward a more generous life, aren't they?
Sharon Epps: They really are, and that's a Kingdom measure. Because if you think about it, many advisors are paid for assets under management, and yet they see the Kingdom impact and encourage their clients to give, knowing that God's the one that provides.
Rob West: Yeah, really is. Sharon, just a minute left. So for someone who's listening today and resonating with what you're saying, and perhaps they're saying, "I want that kind of advice," what could they look for from a CKA even in that very first meeting?
Sharon Epps: Well, first of all, you want to have questions from the advisor learning more about you and your values, not just the facts, but understanding what's important to you. You'll want to ask them questions about, "How do you integrate faith into your client counsel? How can we talk about it together?" And then mostly, pray about it and trust the Holy Spirit to direct you for the best advisor.
Rob West: Excellent. And Sharon, if there's an advisor listening today who's a Christ-follower and they're resonating with what you're saying, I'd love for you to speak to that advisor for just a moment about their opportunity as they engage with Kingdom Advisors.
Sharon Epps: Well, we want to encourage you to join us because we are a group of committed advisors who want to help every advisor live in community and be equipped to confidently have these conversations.
Rob West: That's well-said. Proverbs 19:20: "Listen to advice and accept instruction that you may gain wisdom in the future." That's our heart's desire for everyone as they engage with an advisor who understands the heart of God and the counsel of Scripture so that they can steward God's money God's way. Sharon, thanks for your time today.
Sharon Epps: Glad to be here.
Rob West: Folks, if you'd like to find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in your area, head to the website findacka.com. That's findacka.com. Back with your questions after this: 800-525-7000. I'm Rob West, and you're listening to Faith and Finance on American Family Radio. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right back after this break.
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Rob West: So thankful to have you with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. And always good to have Sharon Epps in the studio. You know, this idea that we would allow our values to intersect with our financial decisions is exactly right. You know, I really believe the future of financial advice is values-driven. Because if you think about it, you know, AI and technology advances, they can create a financial plan and help you run a Monte Carlo simulation—that's a fancy term for the likelihood that your plan is going to allow you to not run out of assets in the future. It can even help you build a portfolio, but it can't help you think about the impact of the money on the kids. It can't help you think about whether money has become an idol. It can't help you think about how much is enough for your lifestyle. It can't help you think about how you honor the heart of God in Scripture with regard to your giving. It really can't help you think about honoring your convictions as you deploy capital in investments.
And so I think really the future of financial advice is yes, about leveraging technology, what we call FinTech, which is, you know, the really effective smartphone apps that you have on your phone that's driving costs down and helping you manage global instantaneous transactions quicker than ever. And yes, there's a tool there for just keeping up with and staying on top of and planning for the financial aspects, but it's really the non-financial aspects that I think is so key for that advisor who can, yes, bring wise tax planning, and yes, build a a really thoughtful, diversified, risk-adjusted portfolio, but also help you think about what we read in Scripture, what is on the heart of God related to how we handle money. That Jesus is our ultimate treasure, and God owns it all, and money is a tool, and faithfulness is the measure. And that ultimately, we need to be surrendered to God's purposes, but that money is a good gift and can be used to love our neighbor and protect the vulnerable and advance the Gospel.
And that's the opportunity that we have, and that's why I'm so excited about this movement that's taking place in the financial services industry. Now a true industry of Christian financial advice that exists, that didn't exist in this way even just a few years ago. But every major firm on board, products being created for Christians, solutions that are coming to bear, advisors who are bringing their faith to work and thinking about leaning into their client conversations for God's glory and for Kingdom advancement, and yes, to serve their clients even better on a daily basis. That's what we're experiencing right now, as just there's this wave going on right now that I get to see every day because of the seat I sit in, but this this movement of Christian financial advice that is really exciting. And here's one of the great things about it, is there is more money flowing into Kingdom purposes now than we've ever seen, and it's a good it's a good time for it because we together, you and I, are living in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world.
And so when we can hold loosely what God has entrusted to us and give it generously, and be content with what we have, and not get caught up in the comparison trap, wow, what an opportunity to invest and give in a way that really reflects what's truly important, what you and I value most. Well, that's what's happening at Kingdom Advisors. So if you're an advisor listening today, we'd love to have you join us. Kingdomadvisors.com, consider getting the Certified Kingdom Advisor designation. Here's one of the fun things. You know, Sharon mentioned, if you're listening today and you want an advisor who shares your values, you can go to findacka.com and find one in your area. There's now more than 2,000 of them. But here's one of the other things that's exciting, is those searches at findacka were up 54% last year, and in just the first year of our first month of our new fiscal year, just for the month of July alone, we saw another 30% jump over the prior July. So, huge year last year, but it looks like the increases are continuing as more and more of God's people are saying, "Yeah, I want an advisor who's competent. I want an advisor who has plenty of experience, and is ethically sound, and has had a regulatory review, but I also want an advisor who has had a pastor reference, and has been trained to bring a biblical worldview to financial decision-making. I want an advisor who aligns with my values as a Christ-follower," and more and more believers are saying that every day, and we're seeing that bear out in the data.
So if that's you and you want to know how you can connect with an advisor, well, it's easy. Just go to findacka.com. You can do a search. I'd interview two or three. Find the one that's the best fit for you, that fits your asset mix, and fits your needs from a financial planning standpoint, and fits their practice in terms of they were equipped to serve somebody who's similar to your situation, and that you have a good rapport with. You can do that again: findacka.com.
Well, in just a moment, we're going to begin taking your calls and questions, so if you've got a financial question today, whether it's something related to giving, saving, spending, investing, whatever it is today, I'd love to be able to help you navigate that through the lens of biblical wisdom, but with really practical next steps. And so call right now. The team is standing by. We've got lines open. We will dive into those questions here in just a moment. The number: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Call right now, we've got lines available for you, and in that next segment coming up here in just a moment, we'll dive into those questions: 800-525-7000.
Also in our final segment today, Bob Doll stops by. We'll get Bob's take on what's moving the markets. Market opening slightly lower today as we still have a couple of things weighing on the markets. A new inflation measure out today, we'll get Bob's take on that in the final segment today. That's putting a little pressure as this sticky inflation continues, a little pressure on the S&P 500 today, down just modestly. But the bigger question is, where is this economy headed? What about oil? We're headed toward midterm elections. We've got a lot of factors swirling here, and we'll get Bob to weigh in on all of it. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. We would love to be able to tackle those questions.
Let me also mention, in the news today, health insurance costs continue to put pressure on family budgets, especially for people who purchase their own coverage. You're familiar with this, and by the way, a new Associated Press report highlights the challenges facing in particular many Floridians after enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies expired earlier in the year. You know, for some Christian families, just given the rising health insurance premiums across the board, where this is one of their largest expenses and with premiums significantly increasing, don't assume your plan is the only option. It's a good time to compare available alternatives, and for some Christians, a biblical medical cost-sharing ministry may be worth considering. It's not health insurance, but it's Christians coming together to share each other's medical bills. Our friends at chministries.org would love to help: chministries.org. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. We're going to take your calls and questions here in just a moment. We've got lines open. Call right now with any financial question: 800-525-7000.
Before the break, I was mentioning our friends at Christian Healthcare Ministries. A great alternative, especially in this environment with rising health insurance premiums—one of the largest expenses in a household budget, particularly for self-employed individuals and retirees who are not yet available or eligible for Medicare, and families without an employer-sponsored coverage. Even if you've got it, sometimes it's just too cost-prohibitive.
Well, many Christian families are now looking for a biblical medical cost-sharing alternative. Christian Healthcare Ministries, a long-time FaithFi underwriter, since 1981, CHM has really helped members share more than—you ready?—$13 billion with a "b" in medical expenses while encouraging a biblical approach to bear one another's burdens, and often at a lower cost than traditional health insurance.
Depending on what option you choose, you need to understand what's covered and what isn't, and your potential out-of-pocket expenses, but it's often really the least expensive option for many families to have the ability to offset the cost of healthcare. If you want to learn more about it, just head to faithfi.com/chm, which stands for Christian Healthcare Ministries. By the way, they're the oldest in this space: faithfi.com/chm.
All right, let's dive into those questions. We're going to begin in Alabama. Christine, go ahead.
Christine: Hello! Yes, thank you for taking my call.
Rob West: Sure.
Christine: I have a question about an HSA. I'm newly retired, and I haven't had an HSA with my company. Is it worth it to take money out of my IRA and put it into the HSA? What would be the benefit of that?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, there is this particular option available. It's a special provision that allows a one-time transfer—excuse me—from an IRA directly into an HSA. It's called a Qualified HSA Funding Distribution, and it's for a newly retired person. It can be attractive if you're in that situation, but eligibility is the key.
In terms of the benefits, you know, the IRA money moving directly to the HSA without being included in your taxable income is the real benefit. Because once it's in the HSA, it grows tax-free, and then it comes out tax-free for qualified medical expenses. Which is different than your IRA—you got the deduction going in, but you pay the tax on it as it comes out. Not so with the HSA.
So, if you have this one-time opportunity to take this pre-tax money and move it to the HSA without incurring tax, and then pull it out completely tax-free for qualified medical expenses, you know, then you're putting yourself into a situation where you're really advantaged from a tax standpoint.
The transfer counts toward your HSA contribution limit for that year, so you can't transfer the entire balance. It's got to be a trustee-to-trustee transfer, so it has to go from your IRA custodian to the HSA.
And then one of the key eligibility requirements is that you have to still be HSA-eligible. So, retirement itself doesn't disqualify you, but enrolling in Medicare does, for the purposes of making additional HSA contributions.
There's also what's called a testing period, and so you would want to look at that just to make sure. That extends through the 12th month following the month of the transfer. So, if you lose your HSA eligibility during that period through the 12th month following the transfer, then that can become taxable and then potentially even with the 10% penalty.
So, you just need to look at whether it's possible, but if it is, I like it a lot for the reasons I mentioned.
Christine: Oh, okay. Okay. So, I'm sorry, I am driving, so I kind of lost you for a minute. So, when you said Medicare, I am only 62, so I'm not 65 or yet for Medicare. So, I still can do that, right?
Rob West: That's right. Yes. So, you have to be HSA-eligible, which means you have to be not on Medicare, which you're not. You also need to be covered by an HSA-qualified, high-deductible health plan. And so, if you're still HSA-eligible for new contributions, then you have the ability to do this funding direct from the IRA up to the HSA contribution limit for the year, one time.
Christine: Perfect. Okay, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thank you so much, I appreciate your help!
Rob West: Absolutely, Christine. Thanks for your call today. All the best to you.
800-525-7000 is the number to call. We've got a few lines open, taking your questions on anything financial, whether it's giving, saving, spending—we'd love to chat about it: 800-525-7000.
Let's go to Ohio. Hi, Jan, go ahead.
Jan: Hi! I am so excited to be able to talk to you, because I don't know what to do.
I have some kids that I'm very much concerned about—a young married couple. And they have a lot of credit card debt. Some years back—I don't know how long—but anyway, they actually got a loan to pay off all the credit cards, and then, of course, habits being what they are, they just went right back into using credit cards whenever there were low enough available finances or whatever.
And so now, they've got a large amount of credit card debt plus the loan payment. I suggested, you know, talking to like a debt management company, you know, to see if they could get help. My daughter, she wants—she would really want to have another loan, you know, just wipe that all out again. But they're not eligible, obviously, to be able to get a loan.
And she said regarding debt management companies that they ruin your credit, and they'll make you close your cards and all of that stuff. They're really in a bad place, and I regret like crazy that I did not teach my children to tithe. They saw my husband and I do it their whole life, but I did not make a point of teaching it to them, because I know tithing is a major thing. But what have you got to say about this?
Rob West: Well, I'm so glad you're walking alongside them. And you know what? Even if they could get another loan, it would just repeat—that cycle would repeat. Because until we fix the underlying issue, we're treating the symptom, and it ultimately is going to result in more challenges. Because at the end of the day, we've got to right-size spending. They've got to be able to spend less than they earn and do it for a long time. That's the key to every financial success.
And just rolling up this debt into a new consolidation loan, taking the pressure off, not changing the underlying habits of the money management, you know, is going to result in you calling me back six months from now and saying, "Okay, now we've got two consolidation loans and the credit card debt's back." I mean, there's no reason to believe that cycle is going to change.
You know, the money management principles—and you know these—are: we've got to live within our means, we've got to avoid debt, we've got to set long-term goals, we've got to have margin (something left over at the end of the month), and we've got to give generously. And then we've got to do that over and over again for a lifetime. And it's easier said than done, as you know. They're simple principles, hard to live by.
What they need is, in fact, a debt management program, because we won't roll it up into a new loan and take the pressure off; we'll leave it right where it is, drop the interest rates, the cards will close (which is what needs to happen, because they need to go on a cash budget), but with the interest rates lower, if we can build in the monthly payment very similar to what they're already doing, now we'll get the balances coming down. Our friends at faithfi.com/ccc can help. Stay on the line.
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Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. We will head back to the phones here in just a moment, but first, Bob Doll's here. Bob's our go-to guy on the markets. He's the CIO and CEO at Crossmark Global Investments, a leader in faith-based investing. You can check it out at crossmarkglobal.com. Bob, market off slightly today, I guess reacting to this inflation report. What did we learn this morning?
Bob Doll: Yeah, the Fed's favorite inflation indicator, the PCE, came out today, and it was for the month 0.25%, so a quarter percent. Consensus was 0.2%, so modestly worse than expected, and that's why the market's kind of on a sideways move.
Rob West: Yeah, no doubt about it. Bob, when economists and market leaders get together, they either go to Davos or, in this case, heading out to Jackson Hole—not a bad gig. But when they gather there, between what Bessesnt is doing and what Walsh is navigating, there are a lot of crosscurrents going on here, aren't there?
Bob Doll: Yeah, no question. I would add to it more rumors about a potential Strait of Hormuz deal. These all come together. I mean, if oil prices stay firmer, both the Fed and the Treasury's job of trying to keep a lid on interest rates is harder than if oil prices drop because we do have an agreement. So I think that's the wild card that people will be watching. But you're right, lots of conversation. There was an attempt, as you know, last week and so far this week by the Treasury to buy more long-dated securities in the hope to keep long-term interest rates from continuing to rise. So far, so good, but they're still at that 10-year at 4.66%, down nearly 10 basis points from the high, but still problematic versus the last few months.
Rob West: Yeah, and you've got to believe that these mortgage rates heading back up to these high levels are going to have an impact on the economy on top of everything else, including oil, right?
Bob Doll: Absolutely. As you know, the housing market's been a little on the sloppy side now for a bunch of months, and the mortgage rate is among the key reasons.
Rob West: Bob, what is being discussed right now with the Strait? I mean, I know it's on-again, off-again—it has been for a while—but what's the latest?
Bob Doll: Yeah, the latest from my Washington sources is the President's concerned about the midterms, no question about that. It seems opinion polls are saying, "Get out of this war. Just get out. No more picking fights in the Middle East." He's watching those polls; his popularity's down a lot, his disapproval rating's up, and maybe he's got to turn tail and move away from further conflict there, at least for now. We'll see, but that's the rumor out of DC today.
Rob West: Interesting. Bob, just as you look overall at this market and think about everything you just said, plus the midterms on the way, where do you think we head for the balance of the year?
Bob Doll: Yeah, it's funny, that's the exact question I was asked on our weekly investment call here at Crossmark, and my response was, "Tell me how good earnings are going to be." I mean, so far, no matter what we've thrown at this market—and we've thrown a lot at it, Rob: the war, $100 oil, you know the list—the market's been fine. The answer is because earnings have been off the charts. If earnings are fine, these negatives can accumulate and not have a big impact. But if earnings growth begins to slow, then these accumulating concerns could weigh on the market. And let's face it, for some time now, we've gone sideways. We haven't made a lot of forward progress.
Rob West: Yeah. But what's amazing, Bob, even though they're ratcheting down some of the expectations, at least at this point, the consensus is another strong 2027 in terms of earnings, right?
Bob Doll: Yeah, absolutely. The consensus right now is up 13%, which is almost double the long-term earnings growth for corporate America. So, slowing from a higher number of expectation, but still a very strong one.
Rob West: Incredible. Thanks, my friend. We appreciate your time.
Bob Doll: Enjoy. Bye-bye.
Rob West: All right, that's Bob Doll. He's CEO and CIO at Crossmark Global Investments. You'll see him if you ever turn on CNBC or Fox Business regularly. He's a Christ-follower, he's a veteran on Wall Street, and he's our go-to guy here on Faith and Finance. He joins us each week. Again, that website: crossmarkglobal.com. All right, let's round out the broadcast today. We'll try to get to a couple of additional questions. Let's head to North Carolina. Terry, thanks for your patience. Go ahead.
Terry: Yes, sir. I'm 62 years old now, and I could start receiving my Social Security benefits, and I have an opportunity to do that. My wife could go to work—she hadn't worked much, so she doesn't have a lot that she could draw on Social Security—and she would be hiring me. I'm wondering how that would affect my tax implications.
Rob West: Yeah, it's a great question. Well, there are really two separate questions here: whether or not to claim Social Security at 62, and whether or not it makes sense for your wife to hire you as an employee. If she of course has a legitimate business, which I'm sure she does, and you perform legitimate work for reasonable compensation, then she could absolutely hire you as an employee. If she operates the business and directs your work, then the IRS is going to generally treat you as an employee, so your wages are going to be subject to income tax withholding plus Social Security and Medicare. If it's a sole proprietorship spouse employment situation, the wages generally aren't subject to the federal unemployment tax. You know, your wages become a business expense for her business, which reduces its taxable business profit. Meanwhile, you report the wages as taxable income. So you're not creating a magical deduction; the income is effectively moving from business profit to your W-2 wages. There can nevertheless be planning benefits. So, for example, legitimate earned income could allow you to make retirement plan contributions, and additional Social Security covered earnings could potentially even improve your eventual Social Security benefit if they were replacing any lower years in your 35-year earnings history. Social Security at 62 is really the big issue. If you started at 62 while working for your wife, your wages count toward the earnings test, which means if you go above the threshold, they're going to withhold a dollar for every two dollars of benefits you earn. You'll eventually get that back, but you just need to know that. And you are ultimately going to have a permanent early claiming reduction compared to waiting until full retirement age. So if you guys don't need the money, especially if you're going back to work for her, then I'd probably recommend you hold off on taking that Social Security and let it just continue to build. But give me any questions or follow-ups you have on that.
Terry: Okay. Well, she hasn't worked that much, so I thought if she could go to work now, she would be making about $110,000 a year, and I would be drawing about $2,300 a month. It would help her when she went to draw her Social Security.
Rob West: Okay. Yeah, so what is the business? Is this a business she's starting or one she's been operating for a while?
Terry: No, she has an opportunity to go to work for another place, and she would hire me under her to do work under her. I could work basically for whatever I could make in a year's time.
Rob West: Okay, yes. Okay, and then yeah, then she has the ability to hire you under that new employment situation, is that right?
Terry: That's right. Actually, I work for the company now; she would be moving into my place, and I would be moving under her. It's basically what it is.
Rob West: Okay, got it. Yeah, so that makes sense. I think what you just need to understand is, you know, you'd be making that $2,300 a month, about $27,000 a year. If you claim at 62 and you don't... the earnings test would apply, but you'd be, for most of that income, underneath it, so you wouldn't have much of a reduction. You probably wouldn't replace any lower earning years, so you're probably not going to get a bump in your Social Security. So I think the big question is again: do you want to take that early Social Security with the permanent reduction, or do you want to hold off on that and let it grow?
Terry: Okay, okay.
Rob West: But I don't see any problem with the plan overall. I think you're in good shape here.
Terry: All right. Hey, I appreciate it, sir, and thank you for your professional advice.
Rob West: Absolutely, Terry. Thanks for your call. Quickly to Mississippi. Robin, you'll be our final caller. We've just about two minutes. Go ahead.
Robin: Yes, sir. I'm 69, retired, and I work about 4 to 8 weeks a year. I contract myself out as a construction safety manager. I get paid on a 1099 from a recruiting company, and I get paid a daily per diem. There's situations where that daily per diem can be non-taxable. From what I've read in the IRS, is there anything special I should be looking at, or...
Rob West: Yeah, it's a great question. So, essentially, because you're paid on a 1099, I would not assume that something labeled daily per diem is automatically tax-free. The rules for independent contractors are different from a straightforward employee accountable plan reimbursement. You know, so it really depends on how they account for it. The big issue is your tax home, so to have a deductible travel expense, you need to be traveling away from your home ultimately. So what I would probably do is check with your CPA on this, because if the company pays you a daily allowance and you don't adequately account to the client for the qualifying travel expense, the allowance generally has to be included in your income, and then you could be able to deduct the qualifying business travel expenses on Schedule C. So it gets a little complicated and you want to get it right. So I would probably connect with a CPA if you don't have one and just kind of walk through that so you understand the per diem rate, how it needs to be classified, whether or not it's taxable, and if it is, can it then be deductible on Schedule C. Robin, appreciate your call today. Thanks for being a part of the program. Big thanks to my team today: Patty, Pat, Devin, Taylor, and everybody here at FaithFi. Come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.
Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
New research shows that when financial counsel aligns with our faith, trust deepens, anxiety decreases, and success begins to mean more than investment performance. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Sharon Epps unpack what these findings mean for faithful stewardship. Then, it’s on to calls.
(00:00) Rob West and Sharon Epps discuss the benefits of a Certified Kingdom Advisor
(08:30) Rob West and Sharon Epps continue their discussion about the benefits of a Certified Kingdom Advisor
(20:30) Rob West examines investing based on values
(27:00) In the News: Health insurance premiums continue to put pressure on family budgets
(32:53) Caller Christine: Eligibility and benefits of moving money from IRA to HAS
(36:46) Caller Jan: Young couple with growing credit card debt problem
(42:23) Bob Doll joins Rob West with analysis of the stock market
(43:25) Bob Doll talks about interest rates increasing
(45:30) Bob Doll gives his thoughts on where the markets are likely headed as we move toward the close of 2026
(46:27) Consensus is for a strong 2027
(47:13) Caller Terry: Deciding whether to take social security at age 62
(51:58) Caller Robin: How to handle tax reporting of a daily per diem when paid on 1099
New research shows that when financial counsel aligns with our faith, trust deepens, anxiety decreases, and success begins to mean more than investment performance. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Sharon Epps unpack what these findings mean for faithful stewardship. Then, it’s on to calls.
(00:00) Rob West and Sharon Epps discuss the benefits of a Certified Kingdom Advisor
(08:30) Rob West and Sharon Epps continue their discussion about the benefits of a Certified Kingdom Advisor
(20:30) Rob West examines investing based on values
(27:00) In the News: Health insurance premiums continue to put pressure on family budgets
(32:53) Caller Christine: Eligibility and benefits of moving money from IRA to HAS
(36:46) Caller Jan: Young couple with growing credit card debt problem
(42:23) Bob Doll joins Rob West with analysis of the stock market
(43:25) Bob Doll talks about interest rates increasing
(45:30) Bob Doll gives his thoughts on where the markets are likely headed as we move toward the close of 2026
(46:27) Consensus is for a strong 2027
(47:13) Caller Terry: Deciding whether to take social security at age 62
(51:58) Caller Robin: How to handle tax reporting of a daily per diem when paid on 1099
Live
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