Rob West When you think about leaving an inheritance, you probably picture children or grandchildren. But what if your next steward isn't a person at all? Hi, I'm Rob West. Leaving a gift to a church or ministry can be a meaningful part of faithful stewardship, but choosing where, when, and how to give deserves careful consideration. Today, Sharon Epps joins us to explore how we can make those decisions wisely, and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, our guest is Sharon Epps, president of Kingdom Advisors, where she helps equip financial professionals to integrate biblical wisdom into their work. Sharon brings years of experience in banking, stewardship ministry, and generosity, and she's also a co-founder of Women Doing Well. She's a major contributor to FaithFi's new field guide, "How Do I Prepare the Next Steward." Sharon, always great to have you here.
Sharon Epps And always great to be here. Thanks, Rob.
Rob West Sharon, when we think about leaving an inheritance, we naturally think of our children and grandchildren, but of course, ministries can also be considered as next stewards, right?
Sharon Epps They absolutely can be, and the next steward can be any number of types of organizations that help meet the desires that you have for God's money. So it could be a church, a ministry, a nonprofit, or any other organization that you care deeply about. Really, the question you need to ask is, God, what do you want your resources to accomplish? And sometimes an organization may be able to carry forward a purpose that an individual heir cannot. So it's not just who gets my money, but what do I want these resources to accomplish after I've gone.
Rob West It's always good to start with a question that helps you really dial into what you're really solving for, and that's a good one. Sharon, for someone who wants to include a ministry among their next stewards, where do they start?
Sharon Epps Well, first of all, we need to start with the purpose before the amount. Ask yourself, what do I hope these resources will accomplish or make possible? And then look at ministries you care about that might fulfill their purpose. Does this mission line up with what you would want the dollars to accomplish? Whom do they serve? What are they actually doing? You're trying to find a ministry that can put the gift to work in a way that reflects why you wanted to give it in the first place.
Rob West Yeah, that makes sense. But sharing the same values and mission is only part of the equation. What else should a giver consider?
Sharon Epps Well, absolutely. Actually, just like you do with an individual next steward, you want to look closely at how they're currently living and working; it's just an organization. So that means look at their leadership. Do they have integrity and accountability? Is the ministry transparent about their finances? Can you see how they're already handling the money that they've been entrusted with? What's their governance structure? Do they have a sound board and what happens when leadership changes? How does the organization operate, not just what it says it does? And if you can, it's really great to get close enough to the ministry leadership that you not only see the work firsthand, but you see how they organize the way they do it.
Rob West Sharon, a lot of us haven't thought about engaging in ministry at that level. Would you expect leadership to be open and welcoming of those kinds of conversations and questions?
Sharon Epps I believe so. I think you come in with a servant's heart and ask, how can I bless the work that you're already doing? Tell me more about it, and they're always quick to want to do that. So you're really, although you are examining, you're doing it from the spirit of helping further their mission.
Rob West The field guide also raises an important question about capacity. Why is it important to consider whether a ministry is even equipped to manage a significant gift?
Sharon Epps Well, a ministry can be doing wonderful work and still not be ready for a very large gift, particularly if you're looking at local ministries. So you want to ask yourself, does that have the people and systems to handle significant growth? How would that money actually be put to work? For instance, if you're thinking about donating an entire year's budget for them, it can actually not serve them well by blocking out other givers and those kinds of things. So you don't want the gift to create a responsibility that the ministry isn't prepared to take on, and so sometimes the wisest gift isn't the largest you could make.
Rob West Wow, that's well said. Well, folks, we're talking today about the next steward, and what if that next steward is actually a ministry? And we deal with this in our new field guide, "How Do I Prepare the Next Steward." Part of the field guide actually helps you select that next steward. Is it an heir? Is it a ministry? And how much do we give to each? It's all available when you head to faithfi.com/shop. That's faithfi.com/shop. Well, we're going to take a quick break, when we come back, Sharon Epps will be back with us. We'll continue to unpack how you select and prepare the next steward who's a ministry. Don't go anywhere, we'll be right back.
SEGMENT 2
Rob West What if your next steward is not a person, but a ministry? How do you select that ministry and how do you make sure they're prepared for your gift? Hi, I'm Rob West. Sharon Epps is with me today. She's president of Kingdom Advisors. She's also a major contributor to FaithFi's new field guide, How Do I Prepare the Next Steward. It's available for you today at faithfi.com/shop. Now Sharon, before the break we were talking about how you consider a ministry as a next steward and actually ask questions that might allow you to understand if they're prepared for your gift. Now, could starting with a smaller gift be a helpful way to evaluate whether a ministry is the right fit?
Sharon Epps It really could be. It will tell you quite a bit as you begin donating to that particular ministry. You can consider it a test gift. You don't necessarily have to tell the ministry that right now. And you're just doing some discovery and learning. And watch how the ministry communicates, how do they follow through. It gives you some time to build more relationship and learn about the way that the organization works. And you may come away with a much clearer idea of whether you want to make a larger commitment or if you want to direct your commitment to a specific area of the ministry and not just the ministry overall.
Rob West Yeah, that's really helpful. Let's talk about the gift itself. How should someone decide whether to designate it for a specific purpose, as you just mentioned, or give the ministry the flexibility to use it where it's needed most?
Sharon Epps Well, as a ministry ourselves, I can tell you that an unrestricted gift gives the ministry more freedom to address its greatest needs. And so if you've done your due diligence and really believe that the leadership of the organization, the purpose and direction of the ministry is healthy, an unrestricted gift gives the opportunity, even past your lifetime, for them to continue to fulfill their mission even if the program changes a bit. A restricted gift does let you direct towards something specific that matters deeply to you. And so talk to the ministries, the bottom line. You may learn something about its needs that you wouldn't know without having some of those conversations.
Rob West Yeah, that's helpful. Let's talk about timing. We often think about leaving a gift to a ministry through our estate, but what are the benefits of giving some of those resources during our lifetime?
Sharon Epps Well, I have to laugh for a minute and remember our mentor, Ron Blue, who always says do your giving while you're living. And so, so you're knowing where it's going if I go the whole way. Um, and so I do think there's wisdom there. Um, there's no single right time for every gift. Estate giving is important and can be very beneficial, but the more we give now, it means the more we can see what the resources accomplish and continue to walk alongside the ministry as we serve. And then we could continue to give gradually as the relationship develops. Now, if you need to preserve some resources for your own future needs, an estate gift may make more sense because it doesn't require you to identify exactly what it is today. Um, and so in the field guide, actually, we have a great question, is there a reason that the gift should wait? Sometimes there is, but it's worth asking that question versus just assuming the gift always happens in your estate.
Rob West Yeah, I think that's wise. Now, if someone wants to leave a significant gift to a ministry through their estate, what steps should they take to ensure their wishes are actually carried out?
Sharon Epps Well, the first thing we want you to do is be talking to your certified Kingdom advisor as well as a competent attorney in estate documents. You need to make sure that your estate documents and your beneficiary designations match what you intend to do. Um, also look at the tax aspect. Now, from a wealth transfer perspective, we don't always make decisions from a tax benefit as the number one, but we do want to make sure that the taxes are provided for in whatever way they need to be. So we want the right professionals in the right place helping us walk through this decision making. But once we do, we don't need to assume the plan is finished forever. It needs to be reviewed periodically because circumstances, both yours and the ministry's, could change.
Rob West Yeah, there's no doubt about that. For someone who supports several ministries, Sharon, but isn't sure which one to include in their estate plan, what's a good first step?
Sharon Epps Well, you can start by just writing down brainstorming ministries that come to mind that usually their ministries that have impacted your heart or your family or your passion. Um, but which ones matter the most to you and again, coming back to that first question, what would you hope the gift would accomplish? What's God calling you to do, because remember, you're still stewarding his money. And then you do the due diligence, as we talked about, make a smaller gift, build a relationship and don't forget to pray about it through the whole process.
Rob West Yeah, that's well said. Sharon, as we think about making these gifts to ministries, when we talk about leaving an inheritance, let's say to an heir, we talk about the importance of communication. When it comes to a ministry, do you think it's important that you let them know what decisions you're making so that they can plan for it? Is that an important part of this process?
Sharon Epps I do, generally. I think it's a getting to know you process that you might not do on that first visit, but as you lean in and build relationship, you're going to learn more about them, but they're going to want to know more about you. And if they're a healthy ministry, they're going to want to journey with you, not just asking for your money, but helping make sure that your God-given passions are being carried out in the work that they do as well. So it's a very important piece of it is strong interactive communication.
Rob West Yeah. What about husband and wife, Sharon, how do they think through the ministries that are uniquely aligned with their particular passions and they're likely going to be different, to then arrive at what their best giving plan is, let's say now or in the future?
Sharon Epps Well, I'll just give you our own personal example. Joel and I have a couple of causes that we both are equally passionate about, and then we each have causes that he's more passionate about one, I'm more passionate about the other. So I think as we teach the principle of unity between husband and wife, doesn't mean that we all have to be equally excited about it. But let's look at that some and decide what are we going to give together and then what might we set aside in our estate plan that would be for a ministry that she or that he is more passionate about and you come to that decision together.
Rob West Yeah, I love that. Sharon, for someone who says, okay, I know I want to give a portion of this to a ministry that's on the heart of God, that's doing incredible work in the name of Jesus, but I just don't know where to start, what might you encourage them to do to uncover those passions and then find ministries that connect with them if they don't already know which one it is?
Sharon Epps Oh, that's a great question. I think the idea is what ministries have served you well? What ministries might be serving people that you have a heart for? Um, perhaps you were adopted or you've been very close to people that have adopted children and that tugs at your heartstrings, then start by looking at adoption and foster care ministries. Um, so most of the time, I find that your passion comes from the struggles or the suffering that you've endured in your life and the way that you would want to help others come out of the same.
Rob West I had a caller recently, Sharon, she said, "Rob, I've been listening for a year, I got Ron Blue's book Splitting Heirs that you referenced a moment ago, at your request, I've been thinking about giving while I'm living," and she said, "I'm giving $150 to four ministries right now, but I'll likely die someday, I'm in my seventies now, with maybe $7 million or more in my trust, I should give a hundred or 200,000 right now, right?" And I said, "Maybe, you ought to think about that, pray about that." She said, "But I don't think my advisor is going to like it, what would you say about that?"
Sharon Epps Well, I was just about to say, I surely hope she has a certified Kingdom advisor, because that advisor has been trained to look at her overall planning, but to prioritize generosity and help her to give to those causes that are on her heart.
Rob West Oh, that's great. If you want to find a certified Kingdom advisor, head to findcika.com. Sharon, always a treat to have you here and thanks for stopping by.
Sharon Epps Thank you.
Rob West That's Sharon Epps, president of Kingdom Advisors. Sharon helped shape this newest field guide, How Do I Prepare the Next Steward. It's available now, and I'd encourage you to pick up a copy or place a bulk order to start these important conversations in your church or small group. Just go to faithfi.com/shop. That's faithfi.com/shop, and we'll be back with your questions after this. Stick around.
SEGMENT 3
Rob West So glad you're with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. Well, it's been a really exciting week, just lots of incredible interviews. Hopefully you've been encouraged in your role as a money manager for the King of Kings. You and I, we're stewards. We're, you can most closely translate the word that we see oikonomos in the New Testament as household managers. We walk in the door, we know we don't own anything, but we're managing everything for the owner, God Himself.
You know, if you were asked to care for a friend's home for the weekend—they're traveling and they need somebody to house-sit—you wouldn't walk in there and think that you owned everything. You'd know that none of this belongs to me, but it has been entrusted to me for my care. That's the idea here of what you and I do for the King of Kings' resources. So we want to be found faithful. We'd probably ask our friend, "What instructions do you have for me? When do I need to mow the lawn?" Well, maybe you don't mow the lawn, but "When do I need to water the lawn? What about taking out the trash? How do I care for what you have given to me?"
Well, that's why we look to God's Word, and we say, "What principles do we see in Scripture about how we should manage God's money?" And that's what we want to do each day is come alongside you, point you back to Scripture, deal with the very practical questions that you have, and help you manage those resources for God's glory, knowing that we're to enjoy what God has entrusted to us. We use it to provide, but we should also give it generously. We can even invest it strategically that results in human flourishing.
I love what I talked to my friend Robby John, the co-founder of Eventide Investments yesterday, and their tagline is "investing that makes the world rejoice." Isn't that a beautiful picture? What if we were to invest in a way that causes the world to rejoice? I think that's God's design. As we look at human flourishing and His design for economics and wealth creation, it's meant to be a blessing to those around us. Business is what results in resources that ultimately end up building hospitals, and supporting our local church, and giving to our neighbor, and providing for our families. And so, it's a productive, virtuous cycle of stewardship, and contentment, and living within our means, and giving generously, and investing faithfully. And you put it all together, and it's meant to be a blessing.
But so often, it becomes a stumbling block. It becomes dangerous. We see that in Scripture, too, when it sits on the throne of our lives. Money—it becomes the object of our affection. We need to guard against that. Remember, you cannot serve God and Mammon, the spirit of money. There's nowhere else in Scripture that we see anything else put next to God as an alternative in Scripture. Only money. It's the only thing. God and fill-in-the-blank—there's nothing else. There's not another verse that deals with another God and something. So, let's take note of that and recognize that there's probably something we need to be aware of there around the tendency for money to sit on that throne of our lives, especially, especially in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world where you and I live.
Well, I'll get off my soapbox, but hopefully that's a good reminder to you today of what's at stake, the opportunity, and really the goal, which is faithfulness to what God has entrusted to us. All right, do you have questions today? I'd love to answer them and help you think about applying biblical wisdom to those very practical decisions you're making as you give, save, and spend. So call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We would love to hear from you. All right, let me dive in. We're going to go down to Florida. Joshua, you'll be our first caller, sir. Go ahead.
Joshua Good morning, Mr. West. How are you?
Rob West I'm well, sir. Thank you for calling today.
Joshua Yeah, I enjoyed the interview. Question: I've seen in a video of a pastor—I'm assuming my cousin sent me about a topic, it has nothing to do with what we're talking about initially—but he mentioned that there are talks going on behind the scenes about a one-world currency. What is the current state of the dollar? And are more countries moving away from the dollar and possibly a dollar crash or destabilization?
Rob West Mm, yeah. It's a great question, and I appreciate you asking it because a lot of people are thinking about this, watching what's going on around the world, wondering where does our dollar stack up in the future. Let me just kind of start at a macro level, just in terms of thinking about why the dollar is weakening, but also why it remains dominant, and then how the US compares globally.
So let me first say I think there are legitimate reasons to be concerned about the long-term purchasing power of the US dollar. Our national debt, persistent deficits—we have absolutely not dealt with the deficits, which is resulting in more debt—inflation. Those are all real challenges. But there's a big difference between a dollar that gradually loses purchasing power and a dollar that collapses.
So I would say, despite our fiscal problems—and we need to get our fiscal house in order—the United States is still the strongest, one of the strongest you could say, I'll argue the strongest economy in the world. Despite our challenges, there simply isn't another currency positioned in my mind to replace the dollar on a global scale anytime soon.
I mentioned the reasons that this question is being raised, and those are legitimate. But in terms of no viable replacement, I would say that the dollar's dominance isn't simply based on confidence in the US government. It's supported by the infrastructure of the entire global financial system. It's the world's leading reserve currency. The dollar represents about 60% at last check that I saw of disclosed global foreign exchange reserves according to the International Monetary Fund data. The euro is a distant second at about 20%. China's a small percentage.
The US Treasury market is extraordinarily important. US Treasuries are among the world's deepest and most liquid financial assets. So that's why central banks and institutional investors, even governments, rely on Treasuries to store large amounts of capital. And so, no other country really offers that same combination of market size, liquidity, and global accessibility, not to mention trust in terms of manipulation of currency.
The euro has its challenges. The Chinese yuan is, you know, there's just limited convertibility, there's political intervention. The Japanese yen has its own debt challenges and a much smaller economy. Gold is impractical. Bitcoin has significant volatility. So I think at the end of the day, yes, we have some economic problems, but there's really nowhere else for global investors to go with that cash.
Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 4
Rob West Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000.
Uh, we were talking before the break with the previous caller about the dollar. He was asking about some concerns related to the US dollar and what the outlook might be. And I was explaining that I think the concern about the dollar is understandable, particularly when you look at the national debt and government spending and inflation we've experienced, not to mention geopolitically what's happening around the world. But I'd make an important distinction between the dollar weakening and the dollar collapsing.
You know, the reality is that the dollar remains the world's dominant reserve currency. More than half of global foreign exchange reserves are held in dollars. The next closest competitor, the euro, is only around 20%. And when you look around the world, where is the alternative? China has significant economic challenges and capital controls, manipulation of their currency. Europe has slower growth and fragmented financial markets. Japan has enormous debt and demographic problems. Meanwhile, the US is still the world's largest economy, incredibly deep financial markets, leadership in innovation and technology. So, yes, I think we need to take note of our fiscal trajectory and deal with it. And I think inflation is a legitimate threat to long-term purchasing power, but I don't see a compelling reason to abandon the dollar. And I would also say, you know, we need to not make drastic financial decisions based on predictions. You know, we need to manage what passes through our hands. We can't control, although we should be aware of it and vote, and, you know, express our, you know, project biblical values to our leaders because we recognize that these biblical principles that applied to individuals applied to nations as well. And so we need to get our own US house in order, and I think that's a part of why we show up and vote, and we're a part of that conversation. And we'll have another opportunity to do that next week in these midterm elections.
But we also need to say, "How can I be faithful with my own mini-economy as a steward?" I'm seeking wise counsel, I'm making prudent decisions, I'm remembering that whatever happens to our economy, our ultimate provider, God Himself, remains unchanged, and Jesus is our ultimate treasure. Our confidence isn't in the stability of the dollar, but it's in the faithfulness of the God who holds our future, the one true God.
So, hopefully that's helpful context and at least, you know, my perspective on, you know, where this might be headed. Don't buy into the fearmongering. Uh, let's head to, uh, Texas. Sammy, go right ahead.
Sammy Thank you, Rob, for taking my call.
Rob West Yes, sir.
Sammy Uh, I need some help possibly correcting a mistake I made. Uh, my wife passed away, uh, about five years ago and shortly thereafter, uh, I had an attorney to, uh, uh, do a will to replace, uh, an outdated trust that we had. And, uh,
I, I had a, of course, a quick claim deed, uh, made up, uh, uh, because, uh, you know, taking it out of the trust and that sort of thing. And then, uh, a little bit later on,
I put my daughter on the, uh, another, you know, the, did the quick claim deed again with her name on there. And I believe that was, uh, probably a mistake, uh, uh, from what you've said before, that it would be better to wait until after, you know, uh,
after the person dies.
Rob West Mhm.
Sammy Uh, I, I'm from Tennessee and I don't think they have a transfer on death situation. So, uh, I didn't know if there was a way to, uh, go back and take her name off of it again and, uh, uh, you know, to avoid any kind of tax situation, that sort of thing. Uh, do you understand what I'm saying?
Rob West I sure do. Yeah. And I appreciate the question very much. And, uh, I'm sorry to hear about your wife's passing. Uh, you are correct about Tennessee not having the broadly available statutory transfer on death deed, the TOD deed, as we call it for short, which allows the property to pass outside of probate without a trust. Um, but there are options here. And, and I would just say, you know, the biggest concern, uh, remains that you've given your daughter a present ownership interest in the home, um, and that may or may not have been your intention and that may not be a concern necessarily, but it's just the reality of it. And then we've also got the, the, you know, capital gains tax issue. Um, so, you know, that's a significant consideration because if you gifted an interest in the property to your daughter through the quit claim deed, then she receives the adjusted tax basis in that gifted interest. So she inherits, um, you know, your cost basis, which makes or could make a substantial difference in the capital gains she would ultimately pay versus the stepped-up basis adjusted to the fair market value at death if she inherits it.
So that would be the, the primary issue, you know, you would want to think through in terms of, you know, where you go from here, um, and so, you know, you could undo this and, um, you know, the, the wording of the deed is important, but essentially what would happen is, uh, you would go back to an estate planning attorney who could review that deed and depending on how it was structured, you know, you do have options. She would need to cooperate, but, um, you know, you could essentially reverse what was done there and then, uh, you would have the ability to, uh, you know, take full ownership back of the property and then, you know, put it in your will or establish a new trust, um, or perhaps modify the existing one that could hold the property such that you would control it during your lifetime and have full ownership, she could inherit it based on the trust terms or through the probate process, uh, based on a will, and then, um, you know, she would have the, the benefit of the step-up in basis on the capital gains at that point.
Sammy Okay. Do, do you have someone that, uh, I could, uh, consult with on that?
Rob West Um, I would reach out to a certified kingdom advisor, um, there. And did you say you're in Tennessee?
Sammy Yes, sir. I tried to look some up and I couldn't find any online.
Rob West Yeah. You may need to expand your church, your, not your church, but your search. Um, we have about 2,000 CKAs in the US and Canada. They're growing in number all the time. But any given city may not have one 25 miles or 50 miles away. You can expand that search radius out to 100 miles. I would imagine you could locate one depending on, you know, where you're at in Tennessee. The key would be, um, you know, finding somebody close to you that could give you a referral. So perhaps, you know, go to your church and just say, "Who are the, the financial advisors that are a part of our church that could give me a referral?" Or better yet, estate planning attorneys that are a part of your church. But any estate planning attorney could help with you, could help with this in terms of evaluating how it's currently, the deed is currently titled, evaluating the quitclaim deed that was put in place, and then talking you through your options to ultimately move from where you are today to what your preferred option is, which is either just to update your will so that she inherits it through the probate process or updating your trust, retitling the property back in the name of the trust, and then leaving it to her through the trust, which would, you know, allow for the benefit of the, the capital gains basis step-up.
Sammy Yeah, right, right now I just have a will. I don't, so I just say we did away with the trust.
Rob West Got it. Okay. Yeah. So I would just find a local, uh, estate planning attorney. Hopefully your church can help. I'm sorry there's no CKAs. Typically, you would just go to findacka.com, do a search, and then ask for a referral. But Sammy, you're on the right track. I'm confident you'll find someone. We appreciate your call. More questions after this. Stick around.
SEGMENT 5
Rob West Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. Well, we set a goal this week between now and the end of October Saturday at 11:59 p.m. to catch up on our listener funding. What does that mean? Well, we're listener-supported here at Faith and Finance, and so we rely on our partners and donors who make one-time gifts to fund this ministry to bring you this radio broadcast in partnership with AFR, to be able to produce the resources like our field guides and our devotionals and our studies, not to mention the app. We're reaching millions each week with this message of biblical financial stewardship managing God's money God's way, but that happens because of your generous support.
And from time to time we're ahead on our giving and other times we're behind, and this happens to be a period where we're slightly behind—about $25,000 between the start of our fiscal year, July 1st, and today. And so we said, well, this week is the launch of our new field guide, Field Guide Number 2: How Do I Prepare the Next Steward?, a really step-by-step guide with a biblical perspective and the exercises to transfer spiritual, relational, and character capital or wealth before financial wealth, and it gives you all the exercises to do that. We're really excited about it.
And this week only, between now and the 31st, Saturday at 11:59, we were asking, would you consider supporting us at $25,000 between all the givers that are out there, and with every gift of any amount, we'll send you our new field guide, Field Guide Number 2: How Do I Prepare the Next Steward? And so far this week, $4,400 has come in, about $20,500 away from the goal. So if you can make a gift of $20 or $200, maybe there's someone out there who could do $2,000 or more, that would be a blessing, and with every gift of any amount—and we mean that—we'll send you Field Guide Number 2. We'll put it in the mail. So, the way you can participate is heading over to faithfi.com/give. That's faithfi.com/give, and thanks in advance.
All right, let's get to as many calls as we can between now and the end of the program. I may have room for one more if you have a question: 800-525-7000. Chuck will be coming your way in a minute, but first, Wes in Illinois. Go ahead, sir.
Wes Ah, yes, sir. This is, uh, Wes. I, uh, uh, took your advice—my wife and I did—and we, uh, took, uh, $30,000 and put it into a donor-advised fund. And, uh, that so far has worked out really well. Uh, the question I have is, um, what are the tax implications? This money was came out of a, uh, mutual fund, which was, uh, which, uh, we were drawing high, uh, uh, uh, is it high tax implications from this mutual fund? Uh, will we be able to deduct the whole $30,000 from our, uh, income or only the, uh, capital gains from that mutual fund?
Rob West Yeah. So you funded the donor-advised fund directly with the shares of the fund—you didn't sell it and then put the money in, is that right?
Wes That is correct, yes, sir.
Rob West Okay. Yeah. Uh, first of all, I love that you did that, and, and for the benefit of our listening audience, a, a donor-advised fund is basically a charitable checking account, you might think about it that way, but it's really flexible because we can fund it with cash, we can also fund it with other assets. Just like Wes has done, he and his wife took appreciated shares of a mutual fund, and rather than selling them and paying the long-term or short-term capital gain, uh, they put the shares in directly of the appreciated shares of the mutual fund, totaling about $30,000 worth of mutual fund shares, and they used that to fund their donor-advised fund.
And when doing that, essentially, uh, you were making a—you made a direct charitable contribution equal to the full amount of those shares at the time you made the gift. You've given up access to those funds; they've been given away, which is why you immediately get a charitable contribution receipt. And then the, this mutual fund shares can be sold—uh, if they happen to go up while they're still sitting in there, that'd be more for your donor-advised fund, and the opposite is true if they go down—but eventually, when they're sold, that cash is now in the donor-advised fund. You've given it away, but it's sitting there waiting for you to then recommend that it be granted out to a qualifying 501(c)(3) ministry or charity, like your church or American Family Association or anything like that. So that's great.
Uh, I love that, and, and we recommend you do that at the National Christian Foundation, ncfgiving.com. You can open what they call a giving fund in five minutes online. Now, to your question, Wes: Can you deduct the entire $30,000? Potentially, yes, and let me explain what I mean. Um, assuming, uh, you know, the, you can, uh, essentially deduct the fair market value of what you put in there; it's going to be limited to 30% of your adjusted gross income, um, you know, donated for donations to a public charity. Um, so if 30% of your AGI, you know, allows you to deduct the full amount—you know, let's say you had $150,000 of income, maybe it's less, maybe it's more, 30% would be $45,000, so then you could deduct the full $30,000—you would itemize your deductions, and then you could receive that federal income tax deduction.
But it's, it's ultimately a, a function of, you know, can you deduct it all in this year, and that's going to have to do with how much income you have and then the various limits. Uh, the capital gains tax no longer applies because, you know, you made that gift directly to the donor-advised fund, and so when the, the shares of the mutual fund were sold, there is no capital gains whatsoever, um, because it's now inside the donor-advised fund.
Wes Right.
Rob West Yeah. So yeah, you, you did a great thing there.
Wes Okay. So 30% of my adjusted gross income.
Rob West Yes, that's exactly right.
Wes All right, well, I appreciate your help, sir.
Rob West Absolutely. Hey, let me also mention one thing. You know, be thoughtful about where you want to get this money to. You know, some people will say, especially when you make a, a significant gift like this, maybe it's, you know, a couple of years' worth of tithe. Great! It's a strategy called "bunching," where if you just do your tithe the way you normally do it, maybe you don't get above the standard deduction, but if you can bundle a couple of years, you know, now you do get above the standard deduction, you can itemize and get more tax credit, which means potentially more giving.
But then they kind of, you know, have it automatically sent to their church, you know, 1/24th every month for two years. That's one way to go. If you guys are seeing this as kind of extra giving—we're already doing our regular systematic proportionate giving another way, and this is just over and above giving—great! But let's not just let it sit there indefinitely; let's, you know, be actively thinking about, okay, where can I put this to work in God's economy, um, you know, rather than it just, uh, sitting in the donor-advised fund.
But in either case, you know, an, an incredible benefit, I think, from a tax standpoint, and again, this is one of my favorite tools, the donor-advised fund, um, and you can, uh, absolutely, uh, do that in just a few minutes at ncfgiving.com. Wes, God bless you, my friend. Appreciate you being on the program.
Let's go to, uh, Tennessee. Chuck, go ahead.
Chuck Thank you for, uh, taking the call, Rob. Uh, my question is that, uh, uh, our church own, uh, free and clear, the deed to five properties, uh, uh, uh, of which two, uh, you know, the church building and, and the other, uh, the commercial, two commercial buildings, and two of, two other homes, two-bedroom and three-bedroom home. Uh, but the church needs a roof, and, uh, I was trying to figure out that how, what's, what's the best way to, to be a good steward of these assets? Um, do I use the, the leverage of these, you know, the value of these, this property, to, to, to get the roof repaired, uh, and, and do what we need to, you know, be able to get back into the church where we can worship? Yes, just curious about how, how to, to do it, 'cause, you know, it's kind of nice not having the note, you know, but at the same time, we do need to get back into the sanctuary for worship and ministry.
Rob West Yes. Well, I totally understand that, and I think, you know, that would absolutely be one of those reasons, I think, to borrow, um, you know, because you want to be able to protect the building and allow the church to continue to do its ministry. Um, now, obviously anytime we're putting the church property at risk to, uh, through financing, um, you know, that's a serious decision, but I think just given what you're talking about here, um, you know, the church owns the property, um, using the real estate as collateral for a loan, as long as, you know, you've done your due diligence on, you know, being able to support the, the debt service and get it paid off in a reasonable period of time, uh, absolutely, I think, you know, that's good stewardship in terms of, uh, keeping that asset sound. If you don't replace that roof, that could lead to other, other much more expensive problems.
And, um, but I think we want to certainly look at, can the church afford the payments? Is giving consistent? Do you have an operating surplus? Um, you know, what would you do if, if, uh, giving declined by 15% or 20% if you kind of want to, you know, begin to stress test this? Um, make sure you have adequate reserves for other emergencies, and then I think second would just be, have I explored other alternatives? Could there be a, a designated capital campaign specifically for the roof, special offerings from church members, things like that?
But other than that, um, you know, I think once you've explored that, you know, this would be a very appropriate use of some borrowing to keep the, the church in good working order.
Chuck Oh, okay. All right, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Rob West All right. Yes, sir, and Lord bless you as well, Chuck. Thank you very much.
Well, that's going to do it for us today. Again, we're about $20,000 away from our goal, so if you love the ministry, you've been helped by it, we'd love to put a copy of our new field guide, How Do I Prepare the Next Steward?, in your hands with a gift of any amount to FaithFi between now and Saturday at 11:59 p.m. as we close out the month of October. So just head over to faithfi.com/give. You can make a one-time gift, or while you're there, if you want to consider becoming a partner at $35 a month or $400 or more per year, uh, then we'll send you quarterly updates, our magazine, Faithful Steward, that comes out four times a year, all of our studies and resources as they're developed, and Pro access to the FaithFi app. Plus, you'll be a part of more than a thousand individuals who are regular monthly supporters of this ministry, and that is a real blessing. Again, faithfi.com/give.
Well, my team today, Michael and Devin and Pat and Patty and everybody here at FaithFi, is how we do this every day. It's certainly much more than just me showing up. So a big thanks to them, and thanks to you for calling and listening. Hope you, uh, come back and join us tomorrow. May God bless you. Bye-bye.
Rob West When you think about leaving an inheritance, you probably picture children or grandchildren. But what if your next steward isn't a person at all? Hi, I'm Rob West. Leaving a gift to a church or ministry can be a meaningful part of faithful stewardship, but choosing where, when, and how to give deserves careful consideration. Today, Sharon Epps joins us to explore how we can make those decisions wisely, and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, our guest is Sharon Epps, president of Kingdom Advisors, where she helps equip financial professionals to integrate biblical wisdom into their work. Sharon brings years of experience in banking, stewardship ministry, and generosity, and she's also a co-founder of Women Doing Well. She's a major contributor to FaithFi's new field guide, "How Do I Prepare the Next Steward." Sharon, always great to have you here.
Sharon Epps And always great to be here. Thanks, Rob.
Rob West Sharon, when we think about leaving an inheritance, we naturally think of our children and grandchildren, but of course, ministries can also be considered as next stewards, right?
Sharon Epps They absolutely can be, and the next steward can be any number of types of organizations that help meet the desires that you have for God's money. So it could be a church, a ministry, a nonprofit, or any other organization that you care deeply about. Really, the question you need to ask is, God, what do you want your resources to accomplish? And sometimes an organization may be able to carry forward a purpose that an individual heir cannot. So it's not just who gets my money, but what do I want these resources to accomplish after I've gone.
Rob West It's always good to start with a question that helps you really dial into what you're really solving for, and that's a good one. Sharon, for someone who wants to include a ministry among their next stewards, where do they start?
Sharon Epps Well, first of all, we need to start with the purpose before the amount. Ask yourself, what do I hope these resources will accomplish or make possible? And then look at ministries you care about that might fulfill their purpose. Does this mission line up with what you would want the dollars to accomplish? Whom do they serve? What are they actually doing? You're trying to find a ministry that can put the gift to work in a way that reflects why you wanted to give it in the first place.
Rob West Yeah, that makes sense. But sharing the same values and mission is only part of the equation. What else should a giver consider?
Sharon Epps Well, absolutely. Actually, just like you do with an individual next steward, you want to look closely at how they're currently living and working; it's just an organization. So that means look at their leadership. Do they have integrity and accountability? Is the ministry transparent about their finances? Can you see how they're already handling the money that they've been entrusted with? What's their governance structure? Do they have a sound board and what happens when leadership changes? How does the organization operate, not just what it says it does? And if you can, it's really great to get close enough to the ministry leadership that you not only see the work firsthand, but you see how they organize the way they do it.
Rob West Sharon, a lot of us haven't thought about engaging in ministry at that level. Would you expect leadership to be open and welcoming of those kinds of conversations and questions?
Sharon Epps I believe so. I think you come in with a servant's heart and ask, how can I bless the work that you're already doing? Tell me more about it, and they're always quick to want to do that. So you're really, although you are examining, you're doing it from the spirit of helping further their mission.
Rob West The field guide also raises an important question about capacity. Why is it important to consider whether a ministry is even equipped to manage a significant gift?
Sharon Epps Well, a ministry can be doing wonderful work and still not be ready for a very large gift, particularly if you're looking at local ministries. So you want to ask yourself, does that have the people and systems to handle significant growth? How would that money actually be put to work? For instance, if you're thinking about donating an entire year's budget for them, it can actually not serve them well by blocking out other givers and those kinds of things. So you don't want the gift to create a responsibility that the ministry isn't prepared to take on, and so sometimes the wisest gift isn't the largest you could make.
Rob West Wow, that's well said. Well, folks, we're talking today about the next steward, and what if that next steward is actually a ministry? And we deal with this in our new field guide, "How Do I Prepare the Next Steward." Part of the field guide actually helps you select that next steward. Is it an heir? Is it a ministry? And how much do we give to each? It's all available when you head to faithfi.com/shop. That's faithfi.com/shop. Well, we're going to take a quick break, when we come back, Sharon Epps will be back with us. We'll continue to unpack how you select and prepare the next steward who's a ministry. Don't go anywhere, we'll be right back.
SEGMENT 2
Rob West What if your next steward is not a person, but a ministry? How do you select that ministry and how do you make sure they're prepared for your gift? Hi, I'm Rob West. Sharon Epps is with me today. She's president of Kingdom Advisors. She's also a major contributor to FaithFi's new field guide, How Do I Prepare the Next Steward. It's available for you today at faithfi.com/shop. Now Sharon, before the break we were talking about how you consider a ministry as a next steward and actually ask questions that might allow you to understand if they're prepared for your gift. Now, could starting with a smaller gift be a helpful way to evaluate whether a ministry is the right fit?
Sharon Epps It really could be. It will tell you quite a bit as you begin donating to that particular ministry. You can consider it a test gift. You don't necessarily have to tell the ministry that right now. And you're just doing some discovery and learning. And watch how the ministry communicates, how do they follow through. It gives you some time to build more relationship and learn about the way that the organization works. And you may come away with a much clearer idea of whether you want to make a larger commitment or if you want to direct your commitment to a specific area of the ministry and not just the ministry overall.
Rob West Yeah, that's really helpful. Let's talk about the gift itself. How should someone decide whether to designate it for a specific purpose, as you just mentioned, or give the ministry the flexibility to use it where it's needed most?
Sharon Epps Well, as a ministry ourselves, I can tell you that an unrestricted gift gives the ministry more freedom to address its greatest needs. And so if you've done your due diligence and really believe that the leadership of the organization, the purpose and direction of the ministry is healthy, an unrestricted gift gives the opportunity, even past your lifetime, for them to continue to fulfill their mission even if the program changes a bit. A restricted gift does let you direct towards something specific that matters deeply to you. And so talk to the ministries, the bottom line. You may learn something about its needs that you wouldn't know without having some of those conversations.
Rob West Yeah, that's helpful. Let's talk about timing. We often think about leaving a gift to a ministry through our estate, but what are the benefits of giving some of those resources during our lifetime?
Sharon Epps Well, I have to laugh for a minute and remember our mentor, Ron Blue, who always says do your giving while you're living. And so, so you're knowing where it's going if I go the whole way. Um, and so I do think there's wisdom there. Um, there's no single right time for every gift. Estate giving is important and can be very beneficial, but the more we give now, it means the more we can see what the resources accomplish and continue to walk alongside the ministry as we serve. And then we could continue to give gradually as the relationship develops. Now, if you need to preserve some resources for your own future needs, an estate gift may make more sense because it doesn't require you to identify exactly what it is today. Um, and so in the field guide, actually, we have a great question, is there a reason that the gift should wait? Sometimes there is, but it's worth asking that question versus just assuming the gift always happens in your estate.
Rob West Yeah, I think that's wise. Now, if someone wants to leave a significant gift to a ministry through their estate, what steps should they take to ensure their wishes are actually carried out?
Sharon Epps Well, the first thing we want you to do is be talking to your certified Kingdom advisor as well as a competent attorney in estate documents. You need to make sure that your estate documents and your beneficiary designations match what you intend to do. Um, also look at the tax aspect. Now, from a wealth transfer perspective, we don't always make decisions from a tax benefit as the number one, but we do want to make sure that the taxes are provided for in whatever way they need to be. So we want the right professionals in the right place helping us walk through this decision making. But once we do, we don't need to assume the plan is finished forever. It needs to be reviewed periodically because circumstances, both yours and the ministry's, could change.
Rob West Yeah, there's no doubt about that. For someone who supports several ministries, Sharon, but isn't sure which one to include in their estate plan, what's a good first step?
Sharon Epps Well, you can start by just writing down brainstorming ministries that come to mind that usually their ministries that have impacted your heart or your family or your passion. Um, but which ones matter the most to you and again, coming back to that first question, what would you hope the gift would accomplish? What's God calling you to do, because remember, you're still stewarding his money. And then you do the due diligence, as we talked about, make a smaller gift, build a relationship and don't forget to pray about it through the whole process.
Rob West Yeah, that's well said. Sharon, as we think about making these gifts to ministries, when we talk about leaving an inheritance, let's say to an heir, we talk about the importance of communication. When it comes to a ministry, do you think it's important that you let them know what decisions you're making so that they can plan for it? Is that an important part of this process?
Sharon Epps I do, generally. I think it's a getting to know you process that you might not do on that first visit, but as you lean in and build relationship, you're going to learn more about them, but they're going to want to know more about you. And if they're a healthy ministry, they're going to want to journey with you, not just asking for your money, but helping make sure that your God-given passions are being carried out in the work that they do as well. So it's a very important piece of it is strong interactive communication.
Rob West Yeah. What about husband and wife, Sharon, how do they think through the ministries that are uniquely aligned with their particular passions and they're likely going to be different, to then arrive at what their best giving plan is, let's say now or in the future?
Sharon Epps Well, I'll just give you our own personal example. Joel and I have a couple of causes that we both are equally passionate about, and then we each have causes that he's more passionate about one, I'm more passionate about the other. So I think as we teach the principle of unity between husband and wife, doesn't mean that we all have to be equally excited about it. But let's look at that some and decide what are we going to give together and then what might we set aside in our estate plan that would be for a ministry that she or that he is more passionate about and you come to that decision together.
Rob West Yeah, I love that. Sharon, for someone who says, okay, I know I want to give a portion of this to a ministry that's on the heart of God, that's doing incredible work in the name of Jesus, but I just don't know where to start, what might you encourage them to do to uncover those passions and then find ministries that connect with them if they don't already know which one it is?
Sharon Epps Oh, that's a great question. I think the idea is what ministries have served you well? What ministries might be serving people that you have a heart for? Um, perhaps you were adopted or you've been very close to people that have adopted children and that tugs at your heartstrings, then start by looking at adoption and foster care ministries. Um, so most of the time, I find that your passion comes from the struggles or the suffering that you've endured in your life and the way that you would want to help others come out of the same.
Rob West I had a caller recently, Sharon, she said, "Rob, I've been listening for a year, I got Ron Blue's book Splitting Heirs that you referenced a moment ago, at your request, I've been thinking about giving while I'm living," and she said, "I'm giving $150 to four ministries right now, but I'll likely die someday, I'm in my seventies now, with maybe $7 million or more in my trust, I should give a hundred or 200,000 right now, right?" And I said, "Maybe, you ought to think about that, pray about that." She said, "But I don't think my advisor is going to like it, what would you say about that?"
Sharon Epps Well, I was just about to say, I surely hope she has a certified Kingdom advisor, because that advisor has been trained to look at her overall planning, but to prioritize generosity and help her to give to those causes that are on her heart.
Rob West Oh, that's great. If you want to find a certified Kingdom advisor, head to findcika.com. Sharon, always a treat to have you here and thanks for stopping by.
Sharon Epps Thank you.
Rob West That's Sharon Epps, president of Kingdom Advisors. Sharon helped shape this newest field guide, How Do I Prepare the Next Steward. It's available now, and I'd encourage you to pick up a copy or place a bulk order to start these important conversations in your church or small group. Just go to faithfi.com/shop. That's faithfi.com/shop, and we'll be back with your questions after this. Stick around.
SEGMENT 3
Rob West So glad you're with us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. Well, it's been a really exciting week, just lots of incredible interviews. Hopefully you've been encouraged in your role as a money manager for the King of Kings. You and I, we're stewards. We're, you can most closely translate the word that we see oikonomos in the New Testament as household managers. We walk in the door, we know we don't own anything, but we're managing everything for the owner, God Himself.
You know, if you were asked to care for a friend's home for the weekend—they're traveling and they need somebody to house-sit—you wouldn't walk in there and think that you owned everything. You'd know that none of this belongs to me, but it has been entrusted to me for my care. That's the idea here of what you and I do for the King of Kings' resources. So we want to be found faithful. We'd probably ask our friend, "What instructions do you have for me? When do I need to mow the lawn?" Well, maybe you don't mow the lawn, but "When do I need to water the lawn? What about taking out the trash? How do I care for what you have given to me?"
Well, that's why we look to God's Word, and we say, "What principles do we see in Scripture about how we should manage God's money?" And that's what we want to do each day is come alongside you, point you back to Scripture, deal with the very practical questions that you have, and help you manage those resources for God's glory, knowing that we're to enjoy what God has entrusted to us. We use it to provide, but we should also give it generously. We can even invest it strategically that results in human flourishing.
I love what I talked to my friend Robby John, the co-founder of Eventide Investments yesterday, and their tagline is "investing that makes the world rejoice." Isn't that a beautiful picture? What if we were to invest in a way that causes the world to rejoice? I think that's God's design. As we look at human flourishing and His design for economics and wealth creation, it's meant to be a blessing to those around us. Business is what results in resources that ultimately end up building hospitals, and supporting our local church, and giving to our neighbor, and providing for our families. And so, it's a productive, virtuous cycle of stewardship, and contentment, and living within our means, and giving generously, and investing faithfully. And you put it all together, and it's meant to be a blessing.
But so often, it becomes a stumbling block. It becomes dangerous. We see that in Scripture, too, when it sits on the throne of our lives. Money—it becomes the object of our affection. We need to guard against that. Remember, you cannot serve God and Mammon, the spirit of money. There's nowhere else in Scripture that we see anything else put next to God as an alternative in Scripture. Only money. It's the only thing. God and fill-in-the-blank—there's nothing else. There's not another verse that deals with another God and something. So, let's take note of that and recognize that there's probably something we need to be aware of there around the tendency for money to sit on that throne of our lives, especially, especially in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world where you and I live.
Well, I'll get off my soapbox, but hopefully that's a good reminder to you today of what's at stake, the opportunity, and really the goal, which is faithfulness to what God has entrusted to us. All right, do you have questions today? I'd love to answer them and help you think about applying biblical wisdom to those very practical decisions you're making as you give, save, and spend. So call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. We would love to hear from you. All right, let me dive in. We're going to go down to Florida. Joshua, you'll be our first caller, sir. Go ahead.
Joshua Good morning, Mr. West. How are you?
Rob West I'm well, sir. Thank you for calling today.
Joshua Yeah, I enjoyed the interview. Question: I've seen in a video of a pastor—I'm assuming my cousin sent me about a topic, it has nothing to do with what we're talking about initially—but he mentioned that there are talks going on behind the scenes about a one-world currency. What is the current state of the dollar? And are more countries moving away from the dollar and possibly a dollar crash or destabilization?
Rob West Mm, yeah. It's a great question, and I appreciate you asking it because a lot of people are thinking about this, watching what's going on around the world, wondering where does our dollar stack up in the future. Let me just kind of start at a macro level, just in terms of thinking about why the dollar is weakening, but also why it remains dominant, and then how the US compares globally.
So let me first say I think there are legitimate reasons to be concerned about the long-term purchasing power of the US dollar. Our national debt, persistent deficits—we have absolutely not dealt with the deficits, which is resulting in more debt—inflation. Those are all real challenges. But there's a big difference between a dollar that gradually loses purchasing power and a dollar that collapses.
So I would say, despite our fiscal problems—and we need to get our fiscal house in order—the United States is still the strongest, one of the strongest you could say, I'll argue the strongest economy in the world. Despite our challenges, there simply isn't another currency positioned in my mind to replace the dollar on a global scale anytime soon.
I mentioned the reasons that this question is being raised, and those are legitimate. But in terms of no viable replacement, I would say that the dollar's dominance isn't simply based on confidence in the US government. It's supported by the infrastructure of the entire global financial system. It's the world's leading reserve currency. The dollar represents about 60% at last check that I saw of disclosed global foreign exchange reserves according to the International Monetary Fund data. The euro is a distant second at about 20%. China's a small percentage.
The US Treasury market is extraordinarily important. US Treasuries are among the world's deepest and most liquid financial assets. So that's why central banks and institutional investors, even governments, rely on Treasuries to store large amounts of capital. And so, no other country really offers that same combination of market size, liquidity, and global accessibility, not to mention trust in terms of manipulation of currency.
The euro has its challenges. The Chinese yuan is, you know, there's just limited convertibility, there's political intervention. The Japanese yen has its own debt challenges and a much smaller economy. Gold is impractical. Bitcoin has significant volatility. So I think at the end of the day, yes, we have some economic problems, but there's really nowhere else for global investors to go with that cash.
Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
SEGMENT 4
Rob West Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000.
Uh, we were talking before the break with the previous caller about the dollar. He was asking about some concerns related to the US dollar and what the outlook might be. And I was explaining that I think the concern about the dollar is understandable, particularly when you look at the national debt and government spending and inflation we've experienced, not to mention geopolitically what's happening around the world. But I'd make an important distinction between the dollar weakening and the dollar collapsing.
You know, the reality is that the dollar remains the world's dominant reserve currency. More than half of global foreign exchange reserves are held in dollars. The next closest competitor, the euro, is only around 20%. And when you look around the world, where is the alternative? China has significant economic challenges and capital controls, manipulation of their currency. Europe has slower growth and fragmented financial markets. Japan has enormous debt and demographic problems. Meanwhile, the US is still the world's largest economy, incredibly deep financial markets, leadership in innovation and technology. So, yes, I think we need to take note of our fiscal trajectory and deal with it. And I think inflation is a legitimate threat to long-term purchasing power, but I don't see a compelling reason to abandon the dollar. And I would also say, you know, we need to not make drastic financial decisions based on predictions. You know, we need to manage what passes through our hands. We can't control, although we should be aware of it and vote, and, you know, express our, you know, project biblical values to our leaders because we recognize that these biblical principles that applied to individuals applied to nations as well. And so we need to get our own US house in order, and I think that's a part of why we show up and vote, and we're a part of that conversation. And we'll have another opportunity to do that next week in these midterm elections.
But we also need to say, "How can I be faithful with my own mini-economy as a steward?" I'm seeking wise counsel, I'm making prudent decisions, I'm remembering that whatever happens to our economy, our ultimate provider, God Himself, remains unchanged, and Jesus is our ultimate treasure. Our confidence isn't in the stability of the dollar, but it's in the faithfulness of the God who holds our future, the one true God.
So, hopefully that's helpful context and at least, you know, my perspective on, you know, where this might be headed. Don't buy into the fearmongering. Uh, let's head to, uh, Texas. Sammy, go right ahead.
Sammy Thank you, Rob, for taking my call.
Rob West Yes, sir.
Sammy Uh, I need some help possibly correcting a mistake I made. Uh, my wife passed away, uh, about five years ago and shortly thereafter, uh, I had an attorney to, uh, uh, do a will to replace, uh, an outdated trust that we had. And, uh,
I, I had a, of course, a quick claim deed, uh, made up, uh, uh, because, uh, you know, taking it out of the trust and that sort of thing. And then, uh, a little bit later on,
I put my daughter on the, uh, another, you know, the, did the quick claim deed again with her name on there. And I believe that was, uh, probably a mistake, uh, uh, from what you've said before, that it would be better to wait until after, you know, uh,
after the person dies.
Rob West Mhm.
Sammy Uh, I, I'm from Tennessee and I don't think they have a transfer on death situation. So, uh, I didn't know if there was a way to, uh, go back and take her name off of it again and, uh, uh, you know, to avoid any kind of tax situation, that sort of thing. Uh, do you understand what I'm saying?
Rob West I sure do. Yeah. And I appreciate the question very much. And, uh, I'm sorry to hear about your wife's passing. Uh, you are correct about Tennessee not having the broadly available statutory transfer on death deed, the TOD deed, as we call it for short, which allows the property to pass outside of probate without a trust. Um, but there are options here. And, and I would just say, you know, the biggest concern, uh, remains that you've given your daughter a present ownership interest in the home, um, and that may or may not have been your intention and that may not be a concern necessarily, but it's just the reality of it. And then we've also got the, the, you know, capital gains tax issue. Um, so, you know, that's a significant consideration because if you gifted an interest in the property to your daughter through the quit claim deed, then she receives the adjusted tax basis in that gifted interest. So she inherits, um, you know, your cost basis, which makes or could make a substantial difference in the capital gains she would ultimately pay versus the stepped-up basis adjusted to the fair market value at death if she inherits it.
So that would be the, the primary issue, you know, you would want to think through in terms of, you know, where you go from here, um, and so, you know, you could undo this and, um, you know, the, the wording of the deed is important, but essentially what would happen is, uh, you would go back to an estate planning attorney who could review that deed and depending on how it was structured, you know, you do have options. She would need to cooperate, but, um, you know, you could essentially reverse what was done there and then, uh, you would have the ability to, uh, you know, take full ownership back of the property and then, you know, put it in your will or establish a new trust, um, or perhaps modify the existing one that could hold the property such that you would control it during your lifetime and have full ownership, she could inherit it based on the trust terms or through the probate process, uh, based on a will, and then, um, you know, she would have the, the benefit of the step-up in basis on the capital gains at that point.
Sammy Okay. Do, do you have someone that, uh, I could, uh, consult with on that?
Rob West Um, I would reach out to a certified kingdom advisor, um, there. And did you say you're in Tennessee?
Sammy Yes, sir. I tried to look some up and I couldn't find any online.
Rob West Yeah. You may need to expand your church, your, not your church, but your search. Um, we have about 2,000 CKAs in the US and Canada. They're growing in number all the time. But any given city may not have one 25 miles or 50 miles away. You can expand that search radius out to 100 miles. I would imagine you could locate one depending on, you know, where you're at in Tennessee. The key would be, um, you know, finding somebody close to you that could give you a referral. So perhaps, you know, go to your church and just say, "Who are the, the financial advisors that are a part of our church that could give me a referral?" Or better yet, estate planning attorneys that are a part of your church. But any estate planning attorney could help with you, could help with this in terms of evaluating how it's currently, the deed is currently titled, evaluating the quitclaim deed that was put in place, and then talking you through your options to ultimately move from where you are today to what your preferred option is, which is either just to update your will so that she inherits it through the probate process or updating your trust, retitling the property back in the name of the trust, and then leaving it to her through the trust, which would, you know, allow for the benefit of the, the capital gains basis step-up.
Sammy Yeah, right, right now I just have a will. I don't, so I just say we did away with the trust.
Rob West Got it. Okay. Yeah. So I would just find a local, uh, estate planning attorney. Hopefully your church can help. I'm sorry there's no CKAs. Typically, you would just go to findacka.com, do a search, and then ask for a referral. But Sammy, you're on the right track. I'm confident you'll find someone. We appreciate your call. More questions after this. Stick around.
SEGMENT 5
Rob West Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. Well, we set a goal this week between now and the end of October Saturday at 11:59 p.m. to catch up on our listener funding. What does that mean? Well, we're listener-supported here at Faith and Finance, and so we rely on our partners and donors who make one-time gifts to fund this ministry to bring you this radio broadcast in partnership with AFR, to be able to produce the resources like our field guides and our devotionals and our studies, not to mention the app. We're reaching millions each week with this message of biblical financial stewardship managing God's money God's way, but that happens because of your generous support.
And from time to time we're ahead on our giving and other times we're behind, and this happens to be a period where we're slightly behind—about $25,000 between the start of our fiscal year, July 1st, and today. And so we said, well, this week is the launch of our new field guide, Field Guide Number 2: How Do I Prepare the Next Steward?, a really step-by-step guide with a biblical perspective and the exercises to transfer spiritual, relational, and character capital or wealth before financial wealth, and it gives you all the exercises to do that. We're really excited about it.
And this week only, between now and the 31st, Saturday at 11:59, we were asking, would you consider supporting us at $25,000 between all the givers that are out there, and with every gift of any amount, we'll send you our new field guide, Field Guide Number 2: How Do I Prepare the Next Steward? And so far this week, $4,400 has come in, about $20,500 away from the goal. So if you can make a gift of $20 or $200, maybe there's someone out there who could do $2,000 or more, that would be a blessing, and with every gift of any amount—and we mean that—we'll send you Field Guide Number 2. We'll put it in the mail. So, the way you can participate is heading over to faithfi.com/give. That's faithfi.com/give, and thanks in advance.
All right, let's get to as many calls as we can between now and the end of the program. I may have room for one more if you have a question: 800-525-7000. Chuck will be coming your way in a minute, but first, Wes in Illinois. Go ahead, sir.
Wes Ah, yes, sir. This is, uh, Wes. I, uh, uh, took your advice—my wife and I did—and we, uh, took, uh, $30,000 and put it into a donor-advised fund. And, uh, that so far has worked out really well. Uh, the question I have is, um, what are the tax implications? This money was came out of a, uh, mutual fund, which was, uh, which, uh, we were drawing high, uh, uh, uh, is it high tax implications from this mutual fund? Uh, will we be able to deduct the whole $30,000 from our, uh, income or only the, uh, capital gains from that mutual fund?
Rob West Yeah. So you funded the donor-advised fund directly with the shares of the fund—you didn't sell it and then put the money in, is that right?
Wes That is correct, yes, sir.
Rob West Okay. Yeah. Uh, first of all, I love that you did that, and, and for the benefit of our listening audience, a, a donor-advised fund is basically a charitable checking account, you might think about it that way, but it's really flexible because we can fund it with cash, we can also fund it with other assets. Just like Wes has done, he and his wife took appreciated shares of a mutual fund, and rather than selling them and paying the long-term or short-term capital gain, uh, they put the shares in directly of the appreciated shares of the mutual fund, totaling about $30,000 worth of mutual fund shares, and they used that to fund their donor-advised fund.
And when doing that, essentially, uh, you were making a—you made a direct charitable contribution equal to the full amount of those shares at the time you made the gift. You've given up access to those funds; they've been given away, which is why you immediately get a charitable contribution receipt. And then the, this mutual fund shares can be sold—uh, if they happen to go up while they're still sitting in there, that'd be more for your donor-advised fund, and the opposite is true if they go down—but eventually, when they're sold, that cash is now in the donor-advised fund. You've given it away, but it's sitting there waiting for you to then recommend that it be granted out to a qualifying 501(c)(3) ministry or charity, like your church or American Family Association or anything like that. So that's great.
Uh, I love that, and, and we recommend you do that at the National Christian Foundation, ncfgiving.com. You can open what they call a giving fund in five minutes online. Now, to your question, Wes: Can you deduct the entire $30,000? Potentially, yes, and let me explain what I mean. Um, assuming, uh, you know, the, you can, uh, essentially deduct the fair market value of what you put in there; it's going to be limited to 30% of your adjusted gross income, um, you know, donated for donations to a public charity. Um, so if 30% of your AGI, you know, allows you to deduct the full amount—you know, let's say you had $150,000 of income, maybe it's less, maybe it's more, 30% would be $45,000, so then you could deduct the full $30,000—you would itemize your deductions, and then you could receive that federal income tax deduction.
But it's, it's ultimately a, a function of, you know, can you deduct it all in this year, and that's going to have to do with how much income you have and then the various limits. Uh, the capital gains tax no longer applies because, you know, you made that gift directly to the donor-advised fund, and so when the, the shares of the mutual fund were sold, there is no capital gains whatsoever, um, because it's now inside the donor-advised fund.
Wes Right.
Rob West Yeah. So yeah, you, you did a great thing there.
Wes Okay. So 30% of my adjusted gross income.
Rob West Yes, that's exactly right.
Wes All right, well, I appreciate your help, sir.
Rob West Absolutely. Hey, let me also mention one thing. You know, be thoughtful about where you want to get this money to. You know, some people will say, especially when you make a, a significant gift like this, maybe it's, you know, a couple of years' worth of tithe. Great! It's a strategy called "bunching," where if you just do your tithe the way you normally do it, maybe you don't get above the standard deduction, but if you can bundle a couple of years, you know, now you do get above the standard deduction, you can itemize and get more tax credit, which means potentially more giving.
But then they kind of, you know, have it automatically sent to their church, you know, 1/24th every month for two years. That's one way to go. If you guys are seeing this as kind of extra giving—we're already doing our regular systematic proportionate giving another way, and this is just over and above giving—great! But let's not just let it sit there indefinitely; let's, you know, be actively thinking about, okay, where can I put this to work in God's economy, um, you know, rather than it just, uh, sitting in the donor-advised fund.
But in either case, you know, an, an incredible benefit, I think, from a tax standpoint, and again, this is one of my favorite tools, the donor-advised fund, um, and you can, uh, absolutely, uh, do that in just a few minutes at ncfgiving.com. Wes, God bless you, my friend. Appreciate you being on the program.
Let's go to, uh, Tennessee. Chuck, go ahead.
Chuck Thank you for, uh, taking the call, Rob. Uh, my question is that, uh, uh, our church own, uh, free and clear, the deed to five properties, uh, uh, uh, of which two, uh, you know, the church building and, and the other, uh, the commercial, two commercial buildings, and two of, two other homes, two-bedroom and three-bedroom home. Uh, but the church needs a roof, and, uh, I was trying to figure out that how, what's, what's the best way to, to be a good steward of these assets? Um, do I use the, the leverage of these, you know, the value of these, this property, to, to, to get the roof repaired, uh, and, and do what we need to, you know, be able to get back into the church where we can worship? Yes, just curious about how, how to, to do it, 'cause, you know, it's kind of nice not having the note, you know, but at the same time, we do need to get back into the sanctuary for worship and ministry.
Rob West Yes. Well, I totally understand that, and I think, you know, that would absolutely be one of those reasons, I think, to borrow, um, you know, because you want to be able to protect the building and allow the church to continue to do its ministry. Um, now, obviously anytime we're putting the church property at risk to, uh, through financing, um, you know, that's a serious decision, but I think just given what you're talking about here, um, you know, the church owns the property, um, using the real estate as collateral for a loan, as long as, you know, you've done your due diligence on, you know, being able to support the, the debt service and get it paid off in a reasonable period of time, uh, absolutely, I think, you know, that's good stewardship in terms of, uh, keeping that asset sound. If you don't replace that roof, that could lead to other, other much more expensive problems.
And, um, but I think we want to certainly look at, can the church afford the payments? Is giving consistent? Do you have an operating surplus? Um, you know, what would you do if, if, uh, giving declined by 15% or 20% if you kind of want to, you know, begin to stress test this? Um, make sure you have adequate reserves for other emergencies, and then I think second would just be, have I explored other alternatives? Could there be a, a designated capital campaign specifically for the roof, special offerings from church members, things like that?
But other than that, um, you know, I think once you've explored that, you know, this would be a very appropriate use of some borrowing to keep the, the church in good working order.
Chuck Oh, okay. All right, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Rob West All right. Yes, sir, and Lord bless you as well, Chuck. Thank you very much.
Well, that's going to do it for us today. Again, we're about $20,000 away from our goal, so if you love the ministry, you've been helped by it, we'd love to put a copy of our new field guide, How Do I Prepare the Next Steward?, in your hands with a gift of any amount to FaithFi between now and Saturday at 11:59 p.m. as we close out the month of October. So just head over to faithfi.com/give. You can make a one-time gift, or while you're there, if you want to consider becoming a partner at $35 a month or $400 or more per year, uh, then we'll send you quarterly updates, our magazine, Faithful Steward, that comes out four times a year, all of our studies and resources as they're developed, and Pro access to the FaithFi app. Plus, you'll be a part of more than a thousand individuals who are regular monthly supporters of this ministry, and that is a real blessing. Again, faithfi.com/give.
Well, my team today, Michael and Devin and Pat and Patty and everybody here at FaithFi, is how we do this every day. It's certainly much more than just me showing up. So a big thanks to them, and thanks to you for calling and listening. Hope you, uh, come back and join us tomorrow. May God bless you. Bye-bye.
When you think about leaving an inheritance, you probably envision children or grandchildren. But what if your next steward isn’t a person at all? Leaving a gift to a church or ministry can be faithful stewardship. But choosing where, when, and how to give deserves careful consideration. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Sharon Epps joins Rob West to explore how you can make those decisions wisely. Then, it’s on to calls.
Live
Did you know American Family Radio is listener-supported? Your monthly financial support will allow us to continue upholding Godly values through our numerous channels, like American Family Radio, One Million Moms, The Stand magazine, and many more.
Become a Great Commission Partner TODAY to help AFR transform culture by rebuilding the family. When you donate today, you’ll get access to:
