Jenna Ellis: The U.S. constitution obligates our government to protect biblical rights
Jenna Ellis in the morning on American Family Radio. I love talking about the things of God. Because of truth and the biblical worldview, the U.S. constitution obligates our government to preserve and protect the rights that our founders recognize come from God our creator, not our government. I believe that scripture in the Bible is very clear that God is the one that raised up each of you, and God has allowed us to be brought here to this specific moment in time. This is Jenna Ellis in the morning.
Tuesday is a day of reckoning for the GOP on what path to take
Jenna Ellis: Good morning. Today is Tuesday, May 19, and in other words, a day of reckoning for the GOP to consider what path they want to take. And, Thomas Massie, who has been a Republican, congressman for, several terms and known as pretty conservative, but lately as bucking the Trump agenda. his primary is tonight. And so much money has been poured into this race and of course, national attention on it because Trump has basically set this up as, if you do not follow my agenda, then you're gone. And, even put out a video late last night, telling voters in Kentucky, to get rid of Massie, who claims, that he is independent and he should be. And so this is basically set up a, a scenario where if Trump wins, he becomes even more powerful in the gop, his endorsement matters even more, and his grip on the party and his agenda becomes even more solidified. And hopefully people like Senator Jon Thune will be paying attention and perhaps Jon Cornyn in Texas. And if Massie wins, on the other hand, then there is still a level of independence, among the gop. There isn't just a, a one stop principle that fidelity and loyalty to Donald Trump is basically the only thing now in 2026 that makes you a Republican. So what's actually best for the country?
Todd Starnes says retribution is coming for Republican lawmakers who abandoned Trump
Well, let's welcome in Todd Starnes, who of course is a radio host, author, and host at Newsmax. You can follow him at Todd Starnes on X. And Todd, you had posted that retribution is, is coming for every Republican lawmaker who betrayed voters and abandoned President Trump. in the context of Bill Cassidy being primary, the people of Louisiana sent a message to every establishment Republican in the nation. do you think that Massie is next?
Todd Starnes: Well, I do think he's next. And Good morning, Jenna. And I really, I know this is being framed around Donald Trump, and I think that's true. He is the President of the United States. But I actually think this is more about the base of the party and the people that put Donald Trump in office. You have to go all the way back to really 2015, when Trump was announcing his run for office. And the only reason, the only reason Donald Trump was elected is because the Republican Party had a terrible track record when it came to actually living up to the promises it made to people on the campaign trail. If they had just bothered to. To keep their word, Donald Trump never would have happened. So this is really, if you want to blame somebody for the current state of political affairs in America, it really is the leadership of the Republican Party, the establishment wing of the party. And so when it comes to someone like Thomas Massie, the voters are saying, no, we have been down this path before. We elected Donald Trump for a second term in office because we wanted him to accomplish a specific number of things. And Thomas Massie is a contrary. And these are folks that it's their way or the highway. And that's fine if you're the President of the United States and the leader of the party. But if you're a congressman from Kentucky, you got problems. And today, I think Thomas Matthews gonna have a big problem on his hands,
Jenna Ellis: you know, and that Speaker Johnson has said, even well before he was Speaker m. That Congress is a team sport. And I think his leadership, and, you know, some would say lack of leadership, but his, his view and his focus and his type of leadership in Congress has really evidenced that. But the point, I think for voters is that the coach or the head and the leader of the team is Donald Trump. And either you're on the team or you're not. And so why, though, specifically Thomas Massie and not somebody like Jon Thune or a Susan Collins or Lisa Murkowski or other people who don't actually have a voting record that is conservative. And with Trump, actually a pretty significant majority of the time, I mean, he is an outspoken contrarian. Absolutely. but there are other people that Trump isn't going after that actually have a worse track record of being not team players.
Todd Starnes: And that's true. And I mean, that's a question you would have to ask the president directly. I do not know the answer to that. I've been pretty outspoken on my, belief that Jon Thune should be removed from power. I'm pretty upset about that. And, look, I. Yeah, look, I think all of them, because it's not Donald Trump they're opposing. It's the America first agenda. And then for me, this is always, always been about the president's agenda, because it's an agenda that makes America truly stronger. And I find very little in that agenda that I object to. And we don't have a lot of time. so I understand, I completely understand your point there. But again, that would be a question, you know, you'd have to ask the president. I don't know. but I do know this Thomas Manci got under this man's skin. And when you do that, well, it's, going to be an unpleasant experience. And I think Jon Thune is coming up next, so he better start paying attention.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, well, hopefully so. And, you know, I think that is a question that I hope, reporters will ask in White House press briefings, or others, or if President Trump decides to come back on this show. I'd love to ask him that question.
Whether or not Trump delivers on his agenda will determine whether GOP wins in November
But he also posted on X Todd ah Stern, speaking of the Trump agenda. And you're absolutely right that the voters voted for this agenda overwhelmingly. And it's not just the personality or the person of Trump, but it's an agenda that is pro America, pro Constitution, pro law and order, pro border control, pro, living in a good economy, you know, all pro conservative values, pro faith. I mean, all of these things. And you had posted MAGA voters were promised lower gas prices, affordable groceries, no more forever wars, American first workers. Whether or not the GOP delivers on those promises will determine if the GOP wins in November. And I totally agree with that. And, you know, I wonder if the White House could maybe frame this better to say, look, we won in 2024. That was the major first hurdle. Now, we've accomplished some in the first two years, but really what we need to do is get rid of the people on our team that are dragging us down so that we can use the last two years to actually get out there and be more effective and give people a reason and voters a reason to say, okay, you know, that makes sense. Instead of being continually frustrated with the lack of delivery from the GOP in the first two years.
Todd Starnes: Well, there were, there were certain things that, that the, that we were promised as voters. And you know, the point of writing that and I get, I get the notes, you know, and, you know, Republican Party leaders get a little frustrated, but I think it's important that they be reminded, guys, this is why we gave you power in the first place. And you've got to accomplish these, these goals. You know, the challenge for the administration here is that, you know, they were out there saying, hey, we're going to lower the gas prices. We're going to do all of these things. we're going to abolish the department of education, we're going to get the guys out of the girls sports. Jenna, that has not happened. I mean, there's been a lot of talk, but, that hasn't happened. They talk about defunding, removing all the federal tax dollars from the schools that were, you know, ignoring the president's executive orders. That has not happened. So at the end of the day, you're just getting a lot of talk and not a lot of action. And the administration actually risks demoralizing the base of the party. And this is why that's important, Jenna, because right now, the Democrat Party is a massive dumpster fire. As bad as things are on the Republican side of the aisle with him not getting the agenda moved at all, as bad as that is, the Republicans can still pull off a victory in the midterm elections simply because the Democrats have completely imploded here. But. But, we are. If we get to the midterms and we're still. I don't know what we're doing in Iran, but if we're still engaged in something in Iran, if gas prices are still high, then we're going to have big problems because people do vote on pocketbook issues, and those are some pretty big issues right there.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And I do think, to your point, that there was a lot that, the base was, was promised that currently, you know, is still not being delivered. I do think that the White House needs to message better what is Congress's responsibility and what President Trump can do unilaterally, because, you know, let's not forget he signed, a lot of executive orders day one. policies have taken effect that he can directly be responsible for. But the president, as we all know, in our system of government, which actually is a good thing, the president can't just unilaterally legislate. And so he has to rely on his team in Congress. And this is why the trifecta was supposed to do more. And so I think that the White House needs to message better what is the, what is actually the fault of Congress versus what President Trump can do himself so that we, have kind of a better understanding of what he expects from his team after the midterms if the GOP wins. And I think that may give a little more hope of people who just are really disheartened right now with the gop. But interestingly, Todd, I think that this, this election, this primary tonight with Massie, if he loses, will reinvigorate the base for Donald Trump, which may be one of the reasons that Trump is kind of setting it up this way. but if Trump, Trump loses because Massey wins. You know, I think that that's going to, to set up a little bit different situation going into November. At least in the short term.
Todd Starnes: It could be. And again, all politics is local, especially when it comes down to these House races. so there is that factor. So there is a bit of a risk here for the President. But I would say that, you know, if you look at current trends, any Republican out there who has stood in the way of the Trump agenda has gone down in defeat. And I would, really see just directing everybody's attention to what happened in Indiana when you had those seven Senate lawmakers, the Republicans who rejected the president's call for redistricting. And now all seven of those folks are going to be out of jobs. So we'll see how this plays out. the sad reality is the President has had to fight his own party all throughout, not only his first term in office, but also his, the second term in office. I had Marsha Blackburn on my show just last week and she told me flat out that the reason why the Save America act has not moved is they, just don't have the votes. They don't have the 50 votes necessary for JD Vance to break the tie. And I think ultimately that's the problem here and it looks like the voters are taking care of the problem. Again, I don't think this is so much about Donald Trump as a very angry base of the party.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And I think that's a really wise analysis. Todd Starnes.
Todd Starnes: Too often there is too much focus on national attention
And in the last few minutes I have with you, I also want to ask you about one other, ah, post on X and everyone should follow Todd Starnes because he gives a lot of really great analysis there as well, outside of even his own programs and also when we get to have him on, afr. And you said that you've noticed a trend over the past few, few years that pastors and quote unquote, Christian influencers are falling all over themselves trying to stage worship gatherings at Mar a Lago, the White House Capitol Rotunda, the Washington Mall. We saw that just this past weekend, with this rededicate 250 and you said it all may very well be genuine, but, it just seems that there's something insincere about all of it. Kind of a gospel grift, only God knows someone's heart. So there's that. I agree with you on that. But you said, I would love to see some sort of intensity and excitement within our local churches as we evangelize our own communities. That's ultimately how we're going to make America great again. I completely agree with you that too often there is too much focus on national attention, big events, things that get, you know, the attention of the, of the big networks rather than the Christians staying faithful to live locally and to require the revival. and that kind of intensity in our own local churches.
Todd Starnes: There's nothing wrong with giving God glory and glitter. But yeah, I'm just, I'm almost over it, Jenna. And there were, look, there were moments which were spectacular at that event. And I'm talking about, you know, the messages delivered by Franklin Graham and Robert Jeffress and Jack Graham, among others. but those were the three that really stood out to me. much of the rest of the program it felt like I was watching all the bad parts of the Trinity Broadcasting Network. And I don't mean that to be insulting. I just mean that there was some weird theology being spewed out there on the Washington wall. And also the crowd itself was a little
Todd Starnes: on the tepid side. I think about. They said about 10,000 people were there. I think that's a very generous number. you know, I'm not quite sure what that was all about, that event and what they wanted it to be about, but it was just a really odd thing. But I do think it's a reminder that you know, the Christians, you know, the Christians cannot get sucked into politics. Right? We, we can influence politics. We're supposed to influence the culture. We're supposed to be the salt and the light. But, but it's looking like we're going back on a sodium free diet and we're more interested in being connected to power and money and fame. And that's not what we are called to do as followers of Christ.
Jenna Ellis: Amen and amen. And you know, politics and policy is incredibly important, but for ultimately the preservation of the family and the individual freedoms and liberties that are God given and the ability of the church to do its work in ministry in civil society. And so we can't hold up politics and politicians as well as something of greater importance than what their position actually is. And I wish that Christians would have as much enthusiasm, attention and as you say, intensity and excitement for engaging our local churches. It seems like the attention is always so focused on politics and and what's going on at the national level. And I think part of that is just because of the news cycle and because the, especially that is pushed out to our phones, almost, it seems like every other minute I get, you know, some ding of some other headline and we are just over saturated with the news that comes out of Washington and the world that there isn't as much emphasis, to live locally. And that's something that the Christian is going to have to refocus and do ourselves and put the priority where it really belongs, which is God first and then our family, locally and then our local church and our local communities. And if we all really, sought to influence and focus on our local communities as much as we did, paying attention to the national news, I think we could really get a lot done. Ah, Todd Stearns.
Todd Starns' new book about Trump coming out in July
So we're almost out of time, but closing thoughts.
Todd Starnes: Yeah, so my new book comes out in July and it's available for pre order. And it's called the Golden Age How Trump Saved America. And it's a fun read, but it's also a reminder of a song that George Beverly Shea once sang on the Billy Graham Crusades. I'd rather have Jesus than silver or gold. And that is really the call for Christians. and so I hope folks pre order the book, we can celebrate the great victories, also look ahead to the future. And what is the role for Christians, in this golden age.
Jenna Ellis: Amazing. Well, I'll look forward to reading that. And people can of course get that anywhere books are sold. Also follow Ah, Todd@, OddStarns and his website is Todd Starns.com and we will be right back with more.
Jenna Ellis: America is celebrating its 250th birthday this year
welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Well, speaking of, faith and wanting to live locally and rededicating America in the midst of our 250th, which I think is actually a really great focus, because we need to look at where we're going, but not forget our past history and what America was founded on. And the principles of liberty that are eternal because they flow from God our Creator and through the laws of nature and of nature's God. And so they are eternal and they are, always relevant. And that's what, you know, the left is falsely lying about and claiming is that somehow, the principles of liberty evolve and bend to whatever the current whim and framework is of whatever we think that liberty requires. But, when we actually sit back and take stock of where we've been and actually where we are right now, really concerning, seeing where potentially we are going. But this is why elections are important. This is why Policy is important, but this is also why foundationally, the church in America and the influence of Christians in America is important. And so Trump, ah, top officials and faith leaders did headline, ah, an historic rededicate 2:50. it was a gathering rally on the National Mall this last weekend. A prayer celebration for America's 250th birthday with worship music and addresses, which I think is fantastic that our national leaders, including, you know, Rubio, Franklin Graham, other administration officials, Pete Hegseth, are actually speaking very clearly the truth of the gospel of Christ and are unashamedly Christians on the national stage. Because I think that that does help promote and prompt other Christians locally to have more courage to speak up in our own community.
Father Frank Pavone was at Sunday's America 250 event
So let's welcome in Father Frank Pavone, who is founder of Priests for Life. And Frank, you were at the rededicate, 250, were you not?
Frank Pavone : I sure was. And Jenna, thanks for giving me a chance to talk about it. I was right up front there, ah, that morning. And you know, I have been as you have too, so many rallies, so many events, prayer gatherings and whatnot. But I can't recall one where the, feeling in the crowd, the sense of enthusiasm, gratitude, joy, was as strong as it was this past Sunday. I mean, it struck me right from the start. I said, there's something different about this now. You know, this is part of the America 250 observance, of course, and there have been many, many, many events. It's really going to intensify now in this coming two, months. but, but, but it was more than that. It was actually an anniversary itself this past Sunday, the 17th, because 250 years ago to the day, the Second Continental Congress had declared May 17, 1776, to be a day of prayer, of fasting, and of humbling ourselves before God in The spirit of 2 Chronicles 7:14, which was a verse that the president himself not only read for the America Reads the Bible event recently, but that video of him reading that very verse about God's people humbling themselves, seeking his face, turning from their evil ways and God healing the land was broadcast as part of Sunday's event. so, I mean, this was. Our listeners should know. This was a once, this was a first, this was a once in American history event. Never since our founders themselves dedicated the country to God explicitly in the Declaration of Independence, never have the American people come together on a particular day at the request of the president and actually rededicated the whole nation to God. And at the conclusion of the day, this is a, A full day event. The speaker of the House, third highest, person in our, in our government structure got, Came alive in person before that crowd and he read one of the most beautiful prayers that I've ever heard. We really should, should, should spread the text of it around. I'm certainly going to do that on our, on our webpage. It was a prayer, it was the official prayer of rededicating America to God. Oh, Jenna, you would. You know, it was so beautiful. It invoked all the historical, rock solid ways in which America was birthed in an acknowledgment of God. And it was so beautiful. So, yeah, it was an historic day. and I hope everyone was part of it. Not just. Not by being there, but by being there in our hearts, in our spirits and our families and our churches, rededicating this nation to the God who made it.
Jenna Ellis: Hm. And, you know, that's a really wonderful observation, Frank Pavone, that, you know, there hasn't been kind of this, this national. Concentrated in the capital effort that, you know, thousands of people are coming to specifically to rededicate the nation to the Lord. And you know, this is very ceremonial in nature. And it's kind of the same reason that, at least evangelicals, do, baby dedications, for example, to say the parents are saying before the congregation and as a witness, obviously in front of the Lord, but. And to the Lord, but in front of, human witnesses, that they will raise their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord and they're dedicating their lives, to the Lord and his service. And similarly, you know, this event sounds like it was a time where publicly, in, of course, the sight of the Lord, but then the sight of the nation saying we still are a Christian nation and we are rededicating this nation. And you know, maybe it's gone off in a lot of really bad and negative ways, but we're taking this moment of the 250th anniversary to rededicate and to dedicate this country, to what it was originally founded on, which was, to be a moral and upright society, to select and prefer Christians as our leaders, to ensure that, we. We have a nation that is. Is doing all of our law and civil society in the fear and admonition of the Lord. And And I think that, and I pray that the Lord will honor that.
Frank Pavone: Rededication means turn away from sin
Frank Pavone : Well, Jenna, let's delve into. I mean, like, you Mentioned. Rededication is not a foreign concept to Christians. What, does it mean then, that we rededicated the nation to God? First of all, as many of the speakers mentioned, it means turn away from sin. You know, we can't have rededication. We can't have revival until we have repentance. So a big theme of the day was, lord, you know, yes, we have fallen short of the ideals of this nation, of the teachings of your gospel. We repent. And that was a beautiful, beautiful, dimension, necessary dimension of the whole day. Secondly, what it means is to recognize that we are a unique nation. it's not arrogance. We are, you know, we take for granted how our nation functions, the freedoms that we have. the fact that, yes, we govern ourselves, we can vote, we can elect our leaders, we can throw them out of office, we can lobby them. we take all that for granted because we've grown up with it, and, it's all we've ever known. But America 250 years ago was initiating a revolutionary idea. Literally, physically and spiritually. Because most governments, it was like, okay, the king is the king. The people don't have any input, into what he says or does. They don't have any recourse against it. But here, the sovereignty is among the people. And why is the sovereignty among the people? Because, as was said time and time again on Sunday at this Rededicate America service, we are under God. Now, when you think about it, those two words, under God tell us why we are free. Because if we're under God, it means we're not under a king, under a ruler, under a court, under a Congress, under a slave owner. We're not under anyone's box. God, that is the source of our freedom. And so what do we mean by we rededicate? It's not that we're putting the nation under God. We're acknowledging that every aspect of the nation, every inch of soil in this country, every little dot and comma and paragraph of our life as Americans, it's already under God. There is no God but the Lord. We are already under God. So by rededicating a nation means we're acknowledging that truth. We're reminding ourselves of what already is, and then we're aligning ourselves with it. We're promising to live accordingly, and then we're promising to defend that. Because if we are under God, it means we can't let any tyrants take over. We've got to be careful how we vote, that we don't elect tyrants that we don't elect people who don't believe anymore in the Constitution or the Declaration or the God who is invoked by that declaration. We are under God and that's why we are free. So it was a celebration of faith, it was a celebration of freedom, and it was a celebration of the integral link between the two.
Jenna Ellis: And that is so beautifully put because we have to remember that. And I say this all the time, not only in my book from over 10 years ago, the legal basis for a moral constitution, but also in, you know, every talk and conversation I've had on this topic, that the sovereign of America is not actually we the people. We the people, get to select and prefer our leaders. We, we have the rights that obviously that God gave us. And we are the ones that direct, the policy, of course of the nation. But the sovereign, according to our founders and the Declaration and the Constitution, is God himself. And that's the reason that our revolution, was not a rebellious one, but looking higher to the highest authority of government possible, which is God himself, because all law and justice flows from our divine lawgiver. And so it's, it's actually a myth and a misstatement that a lot of very well meaning patriots in America have to say, well you know, our sovereign isn't the President or Congress or any of those in their right, but then they focus on we the people instead of focusing on the Lord. And so it's absolutely critical that we focus and reframe our understanding of civil society and where we're going in this great nation to say we need to repent for the sins of the nation. We need to say that we are rededicating our country back to the Lord and that we as Christians at the very least will purpose and intend to have a moral and upright society. And that means, Frank, Pavone actually engaging and not being shy about saying that our policy in this country must be premised on the biblical worldview and the laws of nature and of nature's God.
Frank Pavone : Well that's right. You know, and it's, it's the, and this was a theme that came out a lot on Sunday's, rededication event. Namely that when we talk about religious freedom, we're not talking about, well, you know, if you want to you know, acknowledge God, that's, you know, you can, or you don't have to or whatnot. No, religious freedom is based precisely on the acknowledgement that we have duties to God. We have public duties to God. We have duties as a nation to God. And, you know, religious freedom, does not mean religious indifferentism. it means that because we have duties to God and because this nation cannot survive without religion, therefore people have to be free from government interference in exercising those duties towards God. That's a very different idea of religious freedom as, oh, well, you know, if you want to acknowledge, you know, God, you can. Otherwise you don't have to. No, our founders said you have to, otherwise this experiment will fall apart. And what we lose sight of when we lose sight of the Creator, we lose sight of the creature. We lose sight of human dignity. And the theme of the dignity of human life, which, of course, you and I talk often because that's my, my, my mission and my work, dealing with the abortion issue. That theme of the dignity of human life came across very strongly on Sunday. and two people in particular, the very first speaker was our friend, Reverend Sammy Rodriguez. Very, very popular Hispanic evangelical leader. And Sammy and I have known each other for many years. And, he brought up in his opening prayer, the unborn. And he said, you know, the freedom is not just for the born, it's for the unborn. And then my own associate, Alveda King, that our audience knows and loves. She's, one of our board members at Priests for Life. in fact, she worked with us full time for 16 years. She got up there and she did the same thing. And she said, you know, the freedom we're talking about here is for that those starts with those little babies in the womb. And so it was a beautiful reaffirmation that, look, when we acknowledge the Creator, we see more clearly the creature. We see more clearly the image of God in our fellow human beings, especially the poor, the weak, the outcast, the unborn, those in need, especially them. we see it more clearly because we see God himself more clearly.
Jenna Ellis: Amen. And we have to take a break here. But, it's so. It's so true that our identity is in Christ. And we can't know who we are without understanding who we are in light of who he is. He is the one that defines us. And when we take away, the component of our Creator, then we not only lose sight of the creation, but we can't even define it. And that's why we're in such a mess in 2026, where we can't even say what a woman is, where we can say a man can become a woman. We commoditize children and say that you know, they're just property, basically, which is another form of slavery. I mean, our AG here in Florida is right. And so all of these things ultimately matter to moral and upright society. And I think that the admonition here for all of our listeners and our AFR family is pray for this country and pray that this rededication during America 250 will honor the Lord and that he will honor us for honoring Him. M We'll be right back with more.
South Carolina Supreme Court overturns Alex Murdaugh's double murder convictions over jury tampering
Welcome back to Jenna Ellis in the Morning on American Family Radio.
Jenna Ellis: Welcome back. So, a couple of updates in some criminal trials that have gotten national attention. the first being Alex Murdaugh's double murder convictions. this, of course, was, the man out of South Carolina, whose wife and son were found shot to death on the family's rural, rural South Carolina property. The murders exposed a massive web of corruption. And so Murdaugh was separately convicted of embezzling millions of dollars from his law firm and his clients, manipulating insurance funds and, and so forth. And so he's still in prison serving a separate 40 year sentence for those financial crimes. But the South Carolina Supreme Court unanimously overturned his double murder convictions and ordered a new trial. And citing jury tampering by the former county clerk. And, this is just a wild story of, improper influence. And so she, has actually, this clerk, has actually pled guilty in connection, to a criminal charge over jury tampering. And now Murdaugh is suing that court clerk after the murder convictions overturned, over jury tampering accusations. So a 17 page federal complaint was filed after the South Carolina Supreme Court overturned, those convictions. So let's welcome in Gerard Felitti, who is the senior counsel at the Lawfare Project. And Alex, the Supreme Court got this right, I think the South Carolina Supreme Court, because a clerk cannot provide any sort of opinion, to the jury when the trial is ongoing. And this was so blatant, and the accusation was that she was, telling the jury and inferring that a conviction would make selling her book on this, which she ended up apparently, co authoring a book that, sold copies and then was later pulled over. Plagiarism accusations. So, I mean, just kind of a lot of wild stuff going on, but, telling the jury that it would make the book a better seller Cellar, which is just blatant jury tampering.
Gerard Filitti: It's incredible what she is accused of doing and what she's actually pleaded guilty to doing and how much influence a court clerk can have. Over proceedings that they're not supposed to, just by going up to jurors and talking to them on breaks in the bathroom and in the hallways. And, it's really outrageous to see that a, court clerk abused her position, in a murder case. No, last night. And this is not commenting on the, you know, the guilt or the innocence of the defendant, but being in a position to influence a jury in a murder case is so dangerous to the way that our justice system works that it's really good that she was exposed and that, the prosecution, she was prosecuted for this. I think the civil case against her is, a different story. And that may be more a strategic part on Muerto's part, to avoid, you know, to influence the public who's reading about this and watching this. but I think this is really a shocking display of how much power a corrupt court officer can have and why we need to be very wary.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, regardless of ultimately what a new jury, which, Alex Murdaugh is likely going to be retried, and reports suggest that prosecutors are going to seek the death penalty, but regardless of the outcome of a new trial, every defendant in this country deserves due process. And when you have a court officer that is engaging in this kind of, ah, jury influence and outright manipulation, it violates the due process rights, in this country, and that should never happen.
Court reporter allegedly befriended jurors and then wrote book about trial
And so, have you followed this case well enough to know why this wasn't uncovered during the trial and it was simply a mistrial? I mean, why did it take so long for this to come out?
Gerard Filitti: I think it took so long for this to come out because there was actually a book involved. And she was good at, apparently, from what the story is, she was good at befriending, the jurors in such a way that they didn't think that what she was doing was improper. and it only came to light when the book was published and people started digging into the book. so I think she really did herself no service by being so blatant about her motive and, being so blatant about her desire to profit off this. And I think that whenever you have. I mean, this is. Is not the first time a court officer in some capacity has written books about a trial that they've been a part of to some extent. But in the past, it does raise questions. And when it's a court reporter and you see them interacting with jurors, this is what I think led to this investigation in Large part, yeah.
Jenna Ellis: And, you know, there are definitely ethics rules over, when and if, attorneys involved in the case or, members of, the judicial officers and so forth can, publish books later. And usually, at least my understanding was it had to be after all, appeals and all of that were, done and should have been at least later in the process. It seems like this was relatively quick that she published the book. but do you think that there needs to be more ethics rules surrounding this? I mean, obviously, Trials of this magnitude have carry a lot of public interest weight, and people want documentaries, they want to interview the people who are involved, and all of that. But to actually financially benefit from the media attention, maybe we need to contemplate as a civil society how much that does influence the proceedings at the time. Knowing that these kind of lucrative deals can come after the fact that.
Gerard Filitti: Well, I think that's right, and I think it's not so much a matter that we need new rules, but we need to enforce the ones that already exist. And I think for even for a publisher, you want to be careful that when you're accepting a manuscript that you've done a little bit of due diligence. And if you're seeing that this is someone connected to the case, it should raise some flags, especially when it's something that's being floated. But ultimately, it's a matter of people living within the rules and abiding by them. As a lawyer, you know, I remember being terrified the first time I was, Many, many years ago. The first time I was in the. And a juror walked in, said, oh, my God, I can't look at this person. I can't speak to this person. I lived in fear that very first time of not saying or even looking in a way that might be seen as improper. But it's about people following the rules. And when we live in a society where people get away with breaking them, it just induces more people to violate them.
Jenna Ellis: Yes. And so this is, I'm grateful at least that this is, a nationally focused case on this type of issue. So that hopefully, this will come more to the public's attention that these kinds of things are going to be uncovered. that that kind of improper influence is actually not just improper, but it's illegal and there are consequences. So that hopefully, this doesn't happen again because it does, not only violate the due process rights, which is the paramount issue for defendants being accused of crimes, but also it is such a waste of Time and taxpayer resources. And it's interesting to me that Murdaugh, sued this court clerk for, it's around $600,000, which he says is, what he spent in the first trial. So basically, saying, you know, I spent all of this money and I'm going to have to defend against a second trial. And the only reason that he'll have to expend more money on a second trial, is because of her conduct. And it's surprising to me as well that at least right now, the state isn't also going after her. But maybe that was in part the restitution that was ordered in her plea bargain.
Gerard Filitti: No, I think that's right. I think that, to some point that was probably the restitution that was agreed to in her plea bargain and the state's interest was more in punishing to deter other conduct. I think the costs of this are something that are going to be borne regardless because this is a capital murder case. And as you said, the Attorney General is looking to, to file or has indicated that he's interested in filing for the death penalty on retrial. But ultimately, what's interesting here is on the one part, you can look at Murdoch and say that his lawsuit is really meant to highlight the system inequality, but it's really there to benefit him as well because it's inevitably going to raise questions in the next batch of jurors, about whether the trial is prejudiced, whether there is sufficient evidence or whether there is more going on under the surface. So this does make a retrial a little bit more complex from the public perspective. but at the same time, it's an important lawsuit, because you do need to deter this conduct. I mean, his civil rights were violated. Whether or not he's a murderer is a separate question, but a person is entitled to due process. And a court clerk tampering with a jury is not due process.
Jenna Ellis: Absolutely.
A New York judge issued mixed evidence suppression ruling in the Luigi Mangioni case
And so let's turn to, another case that, ah, just yesterday a NewSong York judge issued a mixed evidence suppression ruling in the Luigi Mangioni trial. this is the individual who is accused of murdering the health, ah, care CEO just in, almost broad daylight. It was the wee hours of the morning. But, you know, came in, in NewSong York and the, the NewSong York judge issued that mixed evidence suppression ruling allowing the alleged murder weapon and notebook, but suppressing items seized during the initial McDonald's arrest. You'll recall that, ah, mangione was found in, Pennsylvania at a McDonald's and so the items that were initially taken from his backpack were suppressed because the judge ruled this was an improper warrantless search because the bag was outside of Mangione's immediate reach. So do you agree with this ruling from an evidentiary perspective?
Gerard Filitti: It's hard to agree with it because it's a mixed bag. You would expect that the judge would either admit everything, finding that the search was reasonable, or disallow the admission of everything, finding the search was unreasonable. So whenever you have one of these limited m. Mixed bag opinions, you have to wonder if it's the right call. And ultimately, officers do need warrants if they don't have probable cause. You have probable cause based on reasonable suspicions. And you can search a bag when you're arresting someone for officer safety, but you can't go into the weeds, into what's inside it. So I think police here actually did probably make a mistake. They should have gotten a warrant just for, to avoid precisely this issue before going through the bag in full. But the decision itself doesn't make all that much sense because it's usually all or nothing. It's not a mixed, holding.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And that. That's what was, confusing to me as well. And so do you think that there's going to be a pretrial appeal on this issue before they get to trial? just because it was. Was. It was such a mixed ruling?
Gerard Filitti: Well, there may be, but it may be a pretrial appeal. But I think the appeal is stronger from the defense perspective rather than the prosecution of the prosecutor is getting what they want, which is the gun itself and the manifesto. And those really are the most powerful pieces of evidence. The rest of it are important, but not as important. the prosecution can still make its case. That's Primitasia case without everything. Without the toiletries, for example, or the underwear that was in the bag. But from the defense perspective, it's a better, it's a better argument that the ruling was off and it should have been all or nothing. And if it's not appealed now, then it risks a meritable merit an on the merits appeal after trial. so this really is an issue that should be resolved sooner rather than later.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. So that we don't end up in a similar situation of, you know, an overturning after, the expense of a trial and so forth. And this is why, for the people listening, I mean, I always found evidentiary law and all of this around process everything so fascinating in the practice of law, because there are so many nuances and it's very, it's not straightforward. And, you get a lot of these issues that are pretrial and post trial appeals. And there were also some statements that Manjony made to police before being read his legal rights, which was also probably a mistake of officers, and that was also suppressed. I do agree with that part of the rule. Right.
Gerard Filitti: And that's again, that's police have to follow procedure. And some of the statements that he made were ruled to have been made voluntarily, as when he's giving identification about himself and statements he made about that. But beyond that, everyone has the right to remain silent. That is a basic constitutional principle established by the Miranda case. everyone knows this, offhand or should know that you have the right to remain silent. and when the police don't advise you of that right, that's a problem. and that's a problem that really shows that police need to do a very good job of protecting our constitutional rights no matter what they're investigating. And, if they get it wrong, then it risks tainting a case.
Jenna Ellis: Yeah. And it's really, fascinating to see how these particular cases, as well as the upcoming and continuing murder, trial for, Charlie Kirk's assassination, and that cameras will be allowed, in that trial, which I think is a good decision for the court, especially with all of the confusion and I think intentional confusion surrounding what a lot of people are suggesting about the case. you know, these are all public interest, cases, but also, you know, it boils down to protecting the due process rights of the defendant as they are being, prosecuted by the state. And that's, more. There are more, rights for due process that are written textually in our Bill of Rights than anything else because our founders knew that an overreaching state can violate due process, really easily. And so, you know, these ultimately, are part of our system. So Gerard Felitti, really appreciate it. You can follow him on X. That's all the time that we have this morning. And as always, you can reach me and my team, jenna fr.net.
