Steve Crampton is assistant general counsel for the American Family Association

>> Hello, I'm Steve Crampton, assistant general counsel for the American Family Association. The mission of AFA is to inform, equip and activate individuals to strengthen the moral foundations of American culture and give aid to the church here and abroad in its task of fulfilling the Great Commission. Our vision is to be, a leading organization in biblical worldview training in the interest of cultural transformation. Thank you for standing with the American Family Association.

>> Welcome to Today's Issues. Join us for the next hour as we offer a Christian response to the issues of the day. Here's your host, Ed Vitagliano.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And welcome everybody to Today's issues. It is Thursday, July 30th. Ed Vitagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon. This week. I'm joined in studio by Fred Jackson. Good morning, Fred.

>> Fred Jackson: Good day to you.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Good. A little, little Australian. Like it. Tony Battag, the studio. Good morning to you.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Good morning.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And then Krish Woodward, our news guy today.

>> Chris Woodward: Hello. Ooh.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Kind of, kind of toned it down.

>> Chris Woodward: I'm going to do like the Dick Vanliere Dyke thing. Is he going to sidestep the ottoman? Is he going to fall over it? You have to tune in every day.

>> Frank Gaffney: Hello.

>> Chris Woodward: One of those things or hey, were

>> Fred Jackson: you even born when Dick Vanliere Dyke was on?

>> Chris Woodward: Oh, no, my parents were still in high school. but no. I have seen a lot of, classic television.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Same here, same here. I used to watch, remember Nick at night before.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Got weird. They used to just show the old, old show. Yes, I watched those all the time.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And you obviously know what the Dick Vanliere Dyke show is all about because of that famous opening where he trips, he did all these prat falls and then they switched to the, probably the second season where he sidesteps the ottoman. And so you've obviously seen it.

>> Chris Woodward: Tune in tomorrow and we'll share our thoughts on the two Darrens from Bewitched.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah, you know Dick Vanliere Dyke still alive.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah. He's like a hundred.

>> Fred Jackson: He just turned 100, I believe.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Wow.

>> Fred Jackson: And someone said he's still driving. Oh. So stay off the streets of Los Angeles.

>> Ed Vitagliano: That's not going to end well. And no offense to the hundred year olds who are listening in our audience.

>> Ed Vitagliano: it's just, you can't, you can't drive when you're 100.

>> Fred Jackson: Oh yeah, yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I'm against it.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Tony Vitagliano: I'll remind you of that.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, if, if I'm 100 years old and I'm still having to drive.

>> Chris Woodward: Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned that because There are some states that since Cove some states did away with road tests. So a, 16 year old kid is getting a license without doing.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Without an actual road driving test.

>> Chris Woodward: In some places that has been the case, yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Wow. And here in Mississippi, that bring Creeley, our producer, saying. So you. Are you saying still they don't, they don't have a driving.

>> Chris Woodward: I have heard they're going to bring it back at some point, but I, didn't confirm.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Was that just because they didn't want the. The test, the person giving the test have to be in the vehicle.

>> Chris Woodward: That was one of the reasons. That was one of the. How we're going to combat that was our way to flatten the curve for two years.

>> Tony Vitagliano: But the other curve, the other curve accidents started going up. Did not flatten that curve.

>> Chris Woodward: It's like that's on.

>> Fred Jackson: Yeah.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Okay.

>> Fred Jackson: They couldn't find a testing car that allowed for six feet between the tester.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Just a big. There were things, there were things getting flattened, but it wasn't a curve.

>> Tony Vitagliano: This is a drive, it's a cab. Just got the plastic barrier that got in the back seat.

>> Chris Woodward: When I found out about that, I was like, what's the point of a license at this point if you're going to be like, here, kid, you know?

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Wow.

Chris: There's been some reaction to the Fauci hearing yesterday

All right, well, speaking of flattening the curve.

>> Chris Woodward: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And speaking of COVID we, we do want to make mention of the fact that the now infamous hearing with Anthony, Fauci yesterday. there's been some reaction. We're not going to.

>> Chris Woodward: Folks.

>> Ed Vitagliano: We, as we mentioned yesterday, we just kind of had an emotional purge yesterday as we relived a lot of that.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Like a Maoist struggle session. You know, bring it over.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Wow. Nice. Maoist struggle session. but we do want to at least make some points. The aftermath of the, of the hearing in which, Dr. Anthony Fauci appeared before the Homeland Security Senate Committee chaired by his longtime good friend, Dr. Ron Paul. Senator and Dr. Rand Paul. Excuse me. And so, Chris, update our listeners and let's hear from some of the reactions, all the. Whatever, whatever you want to do. We're not going to take a, A whole lot here.

>> Chris Woodward: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, by the way, before you go any further, I do want to let our listeners know the next week is Truth for Youth Bible Week. So, you know, we do this every August. And more information, of course, coming next week. But this is always a big week for us where we, we try to get, NewSong Testaments into the hands of high school kids. School is, I'm sorry, parents to be the bearer of bad news. If you didn't know school starting again is right around the corner.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Don't be sorry. It's not bad news for parents. Not bad.

>> Ed Vitagliano: You've got five, and there'll be four. Four of those five will be all in school starting.

>> Chris Woodward: Not too. Distant future.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Sorry, I mean to derail you.

>> Ed Vitagliano: No, no. Okay. So anyway, just letting you know, we'll be coming your way with that next week.

Rand Paul is still talking about how they can possibly hold Dr. Fauci in contempt

All right, Chris, Sorry for the interruption. Go ahead.

>> Chris Woodward: So, first of all, I have to say that on the advice of counsel, I've only brought in two clips, for this Fauci segment. Yeah, what people need to know is that if things were left to Dr. Senator Rand Paul. We've not heard the last of this situation, because in this soundbite you're going to hear, Rand Paul is still talking about how they can, the committee that he, is on yesterday that heard testimony, or lack thereof, from Dr. Fauci, Rand Paul is still out there talking about how they can possibly hold Dr. Fauci in contempt of Congress. Clip 6.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It's a resolution saying that he should

>> Frank Gaffney: be considered for charges for contempt of Congress. I think if that resolution passes our

>> Chris Woodward: committee, which it will, that it could

>> Frank Gaffney: simply be referred directly to the Department of Justice.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Now, we can debate that, but since

>> Frank Gaffney: it's not really a law, it doesn't have an exact procedure. I think there's a possibility that we don't go to the whole Senate floor, but that the committee passes it and we go directly to the Department of Justice.

>> Chris Woodward: Now, what they can hold him in contempt of, I am not sure. And I say that because, as we discussed in the program yesterday, Dr. Fauci invoked the Fifth Amendment, which we're all allowed to use. he did so 111 times. Even when it came to little insignificant things like, and I'm not making this up, the color of his tie. Clip seven.

>> Frank Gaffney: Well, nothing says honesty like taking the fifth on doc.

>> Fred Jackson: Try something.

>> Frank Gaffney: What day of the week is it today? On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth Amendment to the Constitution.

>> Fred Jackson: What color tie are you wearing?

>> Frank Gaffney: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth Amendment to the Constitution.

>> Ed Vitagliano: What color is the carpet in front of you?

>> Frank Gaffney: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth Amendment to the Constitution. Let's just get one thing straight. You don't have any rights under the fifth amendment because you've been pardoned.

>> Ed Vitagliano: As you very well know, as the supreme court has been clear for a century and more.

>> Frank Gaffney: Brown versus Walker, 1896.

>> Ed Vitagliano: When he has been pardoned, he may not stand upon his privilege.

>> Fred Jackson: You know that your lawyer sitting behind

>> Ed Vitagliano: you now, shifting nervously in their chairs.

>> Frank Gaffney: They know it well.

>> Ed Vitagliano: No, I didn't. I didn't know this. What is that? He's. What he's saying.

>> Chris Woodward: He's basically saying that, the pardon is, one of the factors here, and he doesn't. According to senator Josh hawley, who is a lawyer, was the attorney general of Missouri, he does need to answer the questions in Holly's opinion based on the fact that he's been pardoned, and therefore he doesn't. he's not going to.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, I see. Okay. So that was senator Hawley saying, not that he loses his fifth amendment protections.

>> Chris Woodward: He's got nothing to lose.

>> Ed Vitagliano: He's got nothing to lose. Therefore, he is required to answer that. Well, that's interesting, because he can't be charged with anything. what he did, we talked about yesterday, that Fauci. I, had to go back and look this up. That he was director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases from 1984 to 1922. He was Chief Medical Advisor to the President from 2021 to 2022. Obviously, he became famous, Catapulted to fame during Cove He was pardoned on, president Joe biden's last day or two on the way out for everything he had done prior to that day. So this is interesting. I wonder if that is going to be the grounds initially when we heard, senator Paul. Rand Paul talking about holding him in contempt, that I thought, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. He has fifth amendment rights. But Josh Hawley is saying that, Fred. That he doesn't have anything to lose. Therefore he was, contemptible of congress by refusing to answer the questions. This is interesting. I'm not an attorney, but this is an interesting twist, at least for me.

>> Fred Jackson: Well, it's also a brilliant, kind of, move by Josh Hawley to ask those questions.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: What's the color of your tie? What day of the week is it? What color is the carpet? And for the Nation to see Dr. Fauci continue to operate that way. To me, there was success yesterday in that hearing. Success was. I think more Americans today now believe that, Dr. Fauci was very dishonest.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And I'm being kind, not just yesterday, but when he was in charge.

>> Fred Jackson: And I think the reason his lawyers told him to plead the Fifth is because of the diaries, the diary that was released that contradicted what he had said. Dr. Fauci had said under previous, ah, Testimony. Testimony that. And that therefore, if he didn't plead the Fifth yesterday, that he could easily have been convicted yesterday by that court.

>> Ed Vitagliano: He had answered those responses.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: So, the tactic wasn't to be a smart aleck.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Fred Jackson: The tactic was actually to protect himself because of what the diaries have told us that are not. What was that? A thousand pages?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: How stupid. And it goes to the arrogance of Dr. Fauci that he put everything on a government computer. That diary was on a government computer.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And I think some of that's required, though. I think, if you're the head of a major part of the government.

>> Tony Vitagliano: But not your personal diary, though.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I don't. It wasn't. Okay, so, you guys can help clarify this. It wasn't a personal diary because it was done on the government computer. I think the reason he had it on the government computer is that he was required, I think, to record some of his thoughts about things. Then he became too personal.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Okay.

Chris: I hope Foushee is held in contempt of Congress

>> Ed Vitagliano: In his commentary, because it. Gone to his head. I think that's what it seems well indicated.

>> Fred Jackson: And to our point here, at one of the entries in the diary, he's telling his friend, delete this email.

>> Frank Gaffney: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: You know, so it was all there.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Go ahead. this is.

>> Fred Jackson: And.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And then we're. You don't have anything else, do you, Krish?

>> Chris Woodward: No, not from this.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Okay. this will be. You're going to make the final statement here.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah. I'll say this.

>> Ed Vitagliano: It's.

>> Tony Vitagliano: I really do. Honestly, I didn't think anything was going to come out of this, but I really do hope that something does. And that, Foushee is held in contempt. Because I was trying to remember, and Krish was the one who reminded me, who under Trump's administration was, charged and, convicted of being in contempt of Congress. And it was Steve Bannon. and this almost never. We all know this almost never happens. I can't tell you how many people in each administration, Democrat, Republican, have come before Congress and never been charged. I mean, they say they will, but they've never actually been charged. But Steve Bannon was charged and convicted and he will be sentenced in October for, This was for two. Two charges. One for refusing to appear for a Deposition and the other for refusing to provide documents in response to, the committee's subpoena. So he's charged and convicted. And to me, that needs to happen more often. Otherwise, this is just kabuki theater. You know, I mean, it's. I want to see Fauci charged, to be in contempt of Congress and then convicted. To me, and if it's 30 day sentence, that's fine, but to me, he needs to have that on his record forever. This is ridiculous. So are you telling me Steve Bannon could have just shown up to Congress and. I plead the fifth. I plead the fifth. Where were you on January 6? What was your involvement? I plead the fifth. Do you think the media or the Democrats on the. On the committee would have stood for that?

>> Ed Vitagliano: I mean, anyways, and my understanding, again, is that Foushee could be convicted for what he did yesterday, because that's not covered by the pardon.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Correct.

>> Ed Vitagliano: So it would be for his disrespect to Congress and refusing to answer questions about what he did while he was getting paid as the head of a. Maybe not at the time, but certainly when Covid hit a very critically important department, of the federal government.

Rand Paul wants to paralyze the federal government with the threat of civil lawsuits

>> Fred Jackson: I know we want to wrap this up, but I have a question for you.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I don't want to wrap this up. I want to talk for another hour on Anthony Fauci. I know, Covid. Disaster.

>> Fred Jackson: So let's just say that Senator, Rand Paul gets his way, and he's found. Fauci's found in contempt. isn't he still open even though the pardon is in place on federal charges? Correct.

>> Ed Vitagliano: That's what that pardon is. Only for federal charges.

>> Fred Jackson: Could Fauci. Not now, even now, be held, under civil charges, sued by people who lost their jobs?

>> Tony Vitagliano: It'd be. I don't know.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I don't think you can sue government officials for their own, you know, incompetence or those kind of things. I think they are protected from civil suits. Okay, so, now you can sue the government for the monies that you lost. I don't think you can sue individuals while they're fulfilling their duties for the federal, as. As a federal official.

>> Fred Jackson: Okay.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I. I think. I think that's the way it works, so that you. You don't have, you know, members of the government, being sued into oblivion and paralyzed. that'd be a shame. Well, we know where Tony stands.

>> Tony Vitagliano: That'd be so sad.

>> Ed Vitagliano: To paralyze the federal government with the

>> Tony Vitagliano: threat of civil law. Oh, man. Anyways, Sorry.

Hours after President Trump warned Iran would get a beating, US Forces unleashed airstrikes

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, so folks, we're going to try to keep our promise here. No, we are going to keep our promise and we are going to move on.

>> Chris Woodward: Yes. Hours after President Trump warned Iran would get a beating, US Forces unleashed heavy airstrikes against the regime. Dozens of targets were hit, including irgc, military command centers, drone and missile facilities, and Iran's remaining maritime capabilities. Here's President Trump talking about this from the oval office. Clip 1.

>> Frank Gaffney: We're going to hit him very hard. I mean, I can actually say that because in that there's very little they

>> Fred Jackson: can do about, was a different

>> Frank Gaffney: group than we're dealing with. They've already apologized, but, you know, we got to smack them a little bit. I'm always going to get back. When they strike, will I always hit back? Yes, pretty much.

>> Chris Woodward: Okay.

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right. Okay.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Did you say they apologized? They already apologized for it.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I had to listen. I don't know. I don't know what's going on over there in Iran. He said it was a different group. Fred, can you clear this up for us?

>> Fred Jackson: Fred?

>> Ed Vitagliano: I'm gonna pitch it to Fred Jackson. No, so we, we have, we have said this. We're all on the outside, okay, looking in. Unless you have, you know, clearance in the US Military and you're part, of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the brain trust that is running this. Almost all of us are on the outside looking in. We all have become aware that there are different factions in Iran. they're not always, shall we say on the same page that it seems as if there was a faction that was negotiating with the Trump administration. I don't know how sincere they were, but that was the group that was negotiating when they had the memorandum of understanding. But there were other factions called hardliners by some of the experts who, want. Refused to have any kind of, you know, ceasefire. And that, that's why when we had a ceasefire, somebody would fire off some missiles because it was a different faction. Now President Trump is saying that that is a, a new faction, I guess, that, that we were responding to. but, but Fred, I, and then I'll ask Tony, I don't know where. We've said before where the off ramp is here. My fear is that being supplied by Russia, probably China, certainly Iran, is going to continue to come up with missiles and drones and we're going to continue to hit back and this thing is going to go on probably past the midterms and could be a political disaster for the Republican Party. I just don't know what President Trump can do to stop it.

>> Fred Jackson: If you go to afn.net, afn.net, there is a new AP Nork poll that's out this morning that says 2/3 of Americans no longer believe that this war with Iran is worthwhile. If, I think they said 37% of self identified Republicans in that poll agree with that as well. I had a conversation with one of our reporters just before coming into the studio this morning. I, believe that President Trump has four weeks m. He's got four weeks to wrap this up. If he does not do that by September is when we get into the real heat of these November elections.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Fred Jackson: If he doesn't have it wrapped up by then. Gas prices are still high, grocery prices are still high. That's what the American people, and we've seen this in the history of politics in this country. You go all the way back. I can go back to, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter days. Funny way we're talking about Iran then in 1980.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Fred Jackson: Isn't it amazing?

>> Ed Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Fred Jackson: 47.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Because the revolution happened in 79.

>> Fred Jackson: Yes. And what was it? Gas prices, the long lines, the whole thing that is going to emotionally motivate people to either stay home or, you know, I'm not going to support this candidate anymore. I'm going to vote for the other guy.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Right.

>> Fred Jackson: Listen, if the President can wrap this thing up in the next four weeks, that takes away the only talking point that the Democrats have. It's done. But if he doesn't do that, it's going to frustrate the American people and the story will not end well for the Republicans in these midterms.

>> Chris Woodward: There is an interesting bit, of information in this story that Fred just pointed our attention to. the story on afn.net, a third of the way down, there is a little Q and A with a guy named Robert McClary. He's a 52 year old Republican from Ohio. A major, a major state in any election. Okay, so you have a Republican from Ohio who has voted for Trump, and he said, quote, I don't have any trust in this administration at all. And why they brought us into this war, why they're putting our soldiers at risk. Again, he goes on to say, I mean, you've gotten yourself buried into this mess. So for you to have a Republican Trump voter in Ohio saying things like this, there's got to be a lot of other people out there, that are very upset with this.

>> Ed Vitagliano: What do you think Tony?

>> Tony Vitagliano: yeah, I agree with everybody here at this table. and I agree with, McClary. I don't, I don't know how you get yourself out of here. I, I think in my opinion we should have. Now, hindsight's always 2020 and I'm not the geopolitical strategist. I'm not in the, in the briefing room or the war room or whatever. But in my opinion, you should have had the, you should have kept the blockade. You should just kept it in place. It's the least invasive, way to put pressure on the regime and you just keep it in place. And until every faction is ready to capitulate, until the money starts drying up, the wells start getting damaged, the faction we've been negotiating with, this is just the truth. They're not the ones running the show. No, they're not. No, they're not. All of Iran right now. The IRGC is a mosaic. Best way I've heard it described. It's a bunch of factions controlling this piece of the strait. This piece of the strait. We are, we're over a carg island. And none of them, very few of them are probably communicating with each other or coordinating. It's all self, self sustained. They have their own leadership hierarchy.

Fred Berman: I'm worried for Republicans going into the midterms

So getting ourselves out of this, I honestly don't see a way out. I'm with Fred. I, I don't even if he has four, four weeks. We were, we were saying that earlier this summer.

>> Tony Vitagliano: You know, I mean, I don't see four weeks is not enough time to get yourself out, or, or to

>> Ed Vitagliano: effect prices or to affect prices.

>> Tony Vitagliano: and I'm, I'm very worried for, the Republicans going into the midterms. I think you're going to have some Republican candidates who are going to have to start distancing themselves over the coming weeks and saying we got to put an end to this. You know, who are running in mid November, whose job is on the line, whose election is on the line, they're going to have to start breaking ranks. And that's always dangerous to do. but they got to make a decision. Am I going to keep voicing support for this or am I going to have to start distancing myself from it and taking a more passive, approach to it?

>> Ed Vitagliano: my fear is I am in agreement with all you guys have said. I think this is going to end up in a pretty substantial loss for Republicans in the midterms. My biggest concern is, is that this expands into World War Three.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah.

>> Ed Vitagliano: That's, that's my worst case scenario. where China says, fine, gloves are off, we're doing this over here. A, kind of a middle term. concern is that President Trump feels the pressure to invade at least Carg Island. Tony and I were talking about this this morning. And the southern parts of, Iran, where the Strait is, or, you know, look, the Kurds get involved, Turkey gets involved in the northern part, and then it's World War Three. And that could end very badly. All right, we'll take a short break. We'll be right back.

Preborn Network helps mothers facing unexpected pregnancies discover hope through a free ultrasound

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Tim Wildmon announces two separate tours scheduled for 2027

Hello, Tim Wildmon here, president of American

>> Fred Jackson: Family association and American Family Radio.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Maybe you've heard some of my other announcements about our tours. In March 2027, we're going to Greece

>> Fred Jackson: and we're going to Italy. Two separate tours. But, you can do both if you want to. The first tour is called the Footsteps

>> Ed Vitagliano: of Paul, which will be going to, many of the places covered in

>> Fred Jackson: the book of Acts that happened in Greece. The other tour is Italy. And one of the places we're going to be going is Venice. And we're going to ride the gondola or the gondola that Paul took on his trip to Venice. You can read about that in the Bible too. I'm just kidding. But you can call it a gondola or ah, gondola, I don't care.

>> Ed Vitagliano: But if you want to go on one of our tours in 2027, go to tours.afa.net that's tours.afa.net

>> Tony Vitagliano: Jesus replied, you

>> Chris Woodward: must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind.

>> Tony Vitagliano: This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important. Love your neighbor as yourself. Matthew 22:37, 39.

>> Ed Vitagliano: American Family Radio this is today's issues. Email your comments to commentsfr.net Past broadcasts of today's issues are available for listening and viewing in the [email protected] now back to more of Today's Issues. And welcome back to Today's Issues. Ed Battagliano sitting in for Tim Wildmon. This week I'm joined in studio by Fred Jackson, Tony Vitagliano and Krish Woodward.

Dr. Walter Wendler is president of West Texas A and M University

And now we want to, welcome. Not I don't say introduce, because he's been on the show a number of times now. But welcome back Dr. Walter Wendler, who's president of West Texas A and M University. maybe one of the least woke people in higher education in our country. Dr. Windler, thank you for joining us.

>> Frank Gaffney: Well, thank you very much, for having me, Ed. I appreciate the opportunity to visit with all of you.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, sir, we wanted to have you on to discuss, something that is kind of a surprising, I think for a lot of us anyway, a surprising development in our country with, it's not widespread, but the Democratic Socialists of America, having won a number of important races, a number of tests of their strength, are, underway and will be on the ballot in November. But to kind of pivot to your area of expertise, and that is, colleges and universities. What's transpired in our country over the last 70 years or so, just about the influence of Marxism, cultural Marxism, on our college and university campuses. And is this a serious threat posed to our constitutional republic? what do you think about all that's going on in our country?

>> Frank Gaffney: Well, Ed, I do think it's a very serious threat in so many ways. and primary amongst them, or among them is that, the Western thought, the Judeo Christian tradition of higher education, private and public higher education, in America is being vacated. And what is filling that void is this, cultural, Marxism, that talks about the diminishment of, family life, the diminishment of the ownership of private, property. and I consider to be this also the, substitution of the following of ideology rather than the following of ideas. George Marsden, who was, actually a Protestant, but an endowed, chair at at a little Catholic university called Notre Dame, wrote a book, a number of years ago called the Soul of the American University. And he said in that book, the source of our strength is the quest for human freedom. And it's not material but spiritual. And because it knows no limitation, it must terrify and ultimately triumph over those who would enslave their souls. And when I read that the enslavement of the soul is the enslavement to any, non Western, non Judeo Christian ideology in my humble, perspective. And adding to that is this diminishment of the power and importance of family life in America. And as I think about this, I often think back to Genesis and the first social organization that was created. It wasn't West Texas A and M University. And I hope this doesn't shock any of you. It wasn't AFA or afr it was family. And we have neglected family life to the detriment of the whole of American society because it is the building block of a constitutional republic. Marxism, cultural Marxism, and indeed applied Marxism has another view that says that is not the cultural. That is part of the problem because it leads to capitalism and financial gain and so on and so forth of individuals. But these principles of, social, coherence and purpose and trust, these are important things that we need to make sure, that we continue to attend to. And universities, and too many universities are afraid to talk about these, from a Judeo Christian perspective. And I think it is tragic and it's going to take a long time for it to vanish. But you said, Ed, that we're starting to see this. It may not be, sort of, everywhere, but it's going to get more widespread. I think unless people of principle stand up and say, wait a second. The foundations of American society and as you said, a constitutional republic are embodied in free thought and the pursuit of truth and understanding. From a rational perspective. The human condition in relationship to our creator. These things are, They're indispensable to a free society.

>> Fred Jackson: Dr. Wendler, Fred here. How did it happen that we surrendered our education system to people who advocate this ideology, this dangerous ideology that you're talking about? How did this happen?

>> Frank Gaffney: Well, you know, I think its intentions actually in some ways are rooted in, A kind of, A form of tolerance that I think is misapplied. we don't have to have. We don't have to be tolerance, of silly ideas or destructive ideas to our free society. We don't have to be tolerant of that. And the challenge is that a lot of times these small groups of thinkers, Marxist thinkers. I see. We see it with this Democratic Socialists of America. They're a small group but they carry a huge megaphone. We see it with the mayor of NewSong York. And this is not a political, it's just, this is the way it is. A very small group of people have a huge microphone and they Occupy the 24 hour news circuitry day in and day out. I mean almost any news channel you turn, I don't care if the news channel leans left or right. If they're centrist, it doesn't make any difference. These guys are on there and we pay a lot of attention to them. And I think we should be returning to the fundamentals. You know, C.S. lewis was very concerned that universities and the educational systems, systems generally were creating men with empty hearts, or empty chests with no hearts. And it was wrong minded. And we try to listen to everybody and their ideas which I think up to a point is appropriate, but then we don't push back. We believe this concept of the separation of church, and state. And Dan Patrick, our lieutenant Governor here in Texas just recently opined and is going to look at how misunderstood that concept is in contemporary society. And I happen to agree with him. You know, I'm a person of faith and I don't hide that. I honestly confess that. And that doesn't mean you have to agree with me. I'm not going to try to proselytize anybody. I understand the difference between a pulpit and a podium. I get that. and normally when I speak on the campus I speak from a podium, not a pulpit. But that doesn't change who I am. And I have to be honest about that. And I think too many of us are reluctant to do it. you guys in the safety of the sound room that you're in right now, it's one thing. But in the public, I think believers personally believe that believers need to be more willing to understand the apologetics of our faith and to share those in ways that confront the ignorance of for example Marxism. You know that Communist Manifesto which I've read, and it's interesting and I've read it and you know, doing away with the family, doing away with private property. My wife told me the other day, you know, one of the key to cruise shifts, key concepts, and she's right. Key concepts was to get the children. And when we get the children, eventually we'll end up with the adults. And by the way, this is exactly the same as the 4H movement in the United States. It was to educate the children to be better farmers and then they would go home and tell their parents and crop yields would increase. But when you come at it from a free enterprise perspective, a creator driven, God driven perspective, it's one thing. But when you come at it from a man invented ideology about what's right and what's wrong, it turns into a disaster. Sorry, I get a little bit energetic.

>> Ed Vitagliano: No, Alyssa, this is fantastic. You know, this is great stuff.

>> Frank Gaffney: It's important. And I think American higher education by and large has walked away from it.

>> Frank Gaffney: And they're afraid. And by the way, I understand it.

M God's hand keeps providing for me in ways that I can't describe

I've been challenged, I've been fired, I've been sued, I've been everything you can do for trying to stand. I'm not, that's not. Not bragging or anything else. It's just the fact of the matter. But none of that stuff has worked. M God's hand is, has, you know, he keeps providing for me in ways that I can't even begin to describe. and I don't mean to be, mystical about it or enigmatic. It's just the way it is. And I think all of us in leadership in education, not just in universities, but in primary and secondary education, look at the tape from some of these school board meetings and what goes on in some of these public school meetings. And it's nuts. It's nuts. Anyway, probably overstated the case, but there you have it. Those are my thoughts.

Chris: Get engaged. Get involved in school issues. And not just in first and second grade

>> Chris Woodward: Yeah, hey, it's Krish here. I have a question for you that relates to what you just finished with. it used to be that colleges were the places that might produce tomorrow's liberal activists, but now we know, because there's well documented examples of this. There's efforts to get kids, in K12. so it's not just universities anymore, it's now grade schools that are trying to make kids woke and produce tomorrow's radical liberals. And I bring all that up because we're. I can't believe we're saying this, but, we're almost about to the point where kids are starting to go back to school or maybe even starting school for the first time. So what advice would you give a mom or dad that's about to send their kid to school or send their kid back to school?

>> Frank Gaffney: Well, this is very good advice. I mean, it's a great question. And I think the thing that we need, the parents need to do, is be involved. You don't have to go to a school board meeting and shout. You can go see a teacher and talk or a principal and talk. I remember that, Mary and I went to see a principal once. Our kids, we were overseas in Italy for a semester at. We were wondering where our kids should be when they came back, because we were kind of homeschooling them and they were going to school with an Italian school. I mean, it was just a different, sort of thing. And the principal was very direct with us, gave us very sound advice. He said, both your boys are on the edge of, their age group. they're, some of the youngest kids in their class. And if they were to stay back a year, they'd be their oldest kids in their class. We learned that by talking to the principal. He shared his personal testimony of his daughters and sons and how the sons were slower, socially and, emotionally, and that leading them back would be a good idea. And that's what we did. And that was good advice from a public school principal. So here's the thing. To answer the question directly, get involved. And I say, not necessarily screaming and shouting and carrying signs. You go and be a thoughtful participant in discussions about these things. And if the school board is not thoughtful about it, I'd run into them at the local grocery store or the hardware store and talk to them directly and say, come on, what are you doing here? So I think parental involvement. Look at, the books that your kids. That the kids are reading, that students are reading. And not just in first and second grade, but even, in high school, maybe especially in high school. I remember one time one of our children was assigned. It wasn't assigned, but they showed a movie in a. In a classroom. And, and it was this Micah Jackson movie thriller. Well, he came home, our youngest son. And that at night when it's time to go to bed, he. He came to see his mom and said, I can't go to sleep. I keep seeing bodies coming out of the ground. And now Mary said, what are you talking about? And he said, well, we saw a movie in school today. Well, this teacher, unknownst what the movie was. A parent brought it in and said, hey, the kids will like this. They showed the movie. Well, Mary went in front of the teacher, and the teacher was so apologetic and absolutely, broken down about it because she knew it was a terrible thing to do and apologized. And she was a very reasonable person. So I say again, for the fourth time, get engaged. Get engaged. Don't just assume that everybody's good interests are going to make the day. We are individually, fearfully, wonderfully made in the image of God. And I say you take that knowledge and insight and you bring it to the public school teachers. And by the way, with all the challenges in public schools, a good number of those teachers share the faith that we share and I think would be pleased to hear from parents about things that, they're concerned about and so on and so forth. So I say, without equivocation, get involved. That's the fifth time I've said it.

>> Fred Jackson: Be engaged.

>> Frank Gaffney: And I think that's the most important thing.

Dr. Walter Wendler is president of West Texas A and M University

>> Ed Vitagliano: Our guest.

>> Frank Gaffney: Most important thing.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Our guest has been Dr. Walter Wendler. He's president of West Texas A and M University. And by the way, Dr. Wendler, I'll let you pitch this. we have a very good relationship with Dr. Wendler. He speaks very highly of West Texas A and M University. It's a public university, but, has maintained an emphasis on the values of western civilization. Dr. Wendler, give me a second. I'm going to let you pitch your school here on air. But folks, if you like what you heard from Dr. Wendler, I want to let you know that in the August issue of the STAN magazine, some of you may not even know we have a monthly magazine. You can sign up by going to afa.net Dr. Wendler has an article in it. Ah, I was talking to the. To, Rebecca Davis, the editor of our magazine, just yesterday. And we're going to be having more, of the outstanding writing. The ideas you've heard from Dr. Wendler, in the magazine in coming months. so check out the Stand magazine. Go to afa.net his article in the August issue is check your faith at the campus gate. Really? So, Dr. Wendler argues that universities best fulfill their mission when faith, reason, moral formation and academic freedom work together to cultivate courageous thinkers and responsible citizens. Dr. Wendler, so appreciate your insights that you've shared with us. Why don't you go ahead and promote West Texas A and M University? there may be parents who are going to be. They have seniors in high school. They're going to be looking at where they might want to send their kids. Why is West Texas A and M a good choice?

>> Frank Gaffney: Oh, man, you've opened the door.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Give us, give us, give us the short version.

>> Frank Gaffney: I won't give you the short version. we are embedded in one of the most conservative regions in the state of Texas. And my job is in my sense of things is to make sure that the values of this region are, part of the cultural exchange that happens when students attend a university, public or private. And this place is conservative. we are the most conservative public university in the state of Texas. I've written a piece about this, an op ed a couple of years back. But I looked at the 38, counties in Texas where the presidential elections in 04, 8, 12, 16, 20 and now 24. It doesn't change. We have more consistently voted for Republicans in the presidential elections than any other county that's home to a public university in the state of Texas. And that's a fact. Now I also want to say, just as a caveat, Republican doesn't always equal conservative. And I listen to you guys and I know you agree with that. And likewise Democrat doesn't always mean wild, liberal or Marxist. These political, labels, are, they're less than satisfactory. But I think it's a pretty good indicator we are conservative and we openly and steadfastly proclaim those values. These conservative values, are, embedded and imbued in West Texas A and M M University because these are the people we serve first. And if that applies, your listeners, appeal to that. Here comes the pitch. They can go to www.wtamu.edu and look at our webpage. And if you'll spend any time there, you could go look at the Hill Institute or any of the number of initiatives that we have to promulgate these very important values. And they're not just panhandle values. I think they're Texas values and indeed American values. And I think we need to be steadfast about it in places of learning and not apologize for them. Say, well, we're a little backward here. I get that. People tell me that in so many ways, you know, we need to be more like, NewSong York City. Well, I'm from 40 miles out on North Shore, Long island, and I'm not sure we need to be like NewSong York City.

>> Ed Vitagliano: I think you get a big amen from the group on this panel. So. Hey, doctor. Dr. Wendler, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation and we're going to have you back. And folks, I just do want to remind you again and do a little pitch for the Stand magazine. You'll be able to be able to read Dr. Wendler's, feature in that issue and I promise we are going to have, more of his writing. He's a very good writer as well as a communicator. Dr. Wendler, thank you so much for being with us.

>> Frank Gaffney: Thank you for your time and your tolerance of. Of me.

>> Ed Vitagliano: Oh, no, listen, this was excellent, excellent insight. Thank you, sir.

>> Frank Gaffney: Okay. Have a good day. God bless you.

Tony Perkins says not every idea should be tolerated, but tolerance is paramount

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, all right. I just, Tony just really, enjoyed that, ah, conversation. That was very insightful. As to the, I think, Tell me what you think. Think of this. I think it is absolutely fine under the umbrella of our constitutional republic and the rights protected by the Bill of rights, the first 10amendments, to let people have discussions, about whatever they want to have discussions about. When you start drifting to Marxism or Islamism. This is my opinion, folks. This is not. Does not necessarily express the opinion of afa. I think you are looking at ideologies that want to overthrow the constitutional republic. And I don't think that those, That those views should. I'm not sure how to say it. I am getting more to the place where I'm thinking, no, you cannot advocate the overthrow of the government that's not protected. Free speech. There may be First Amendment absolutists that are horrified by that, but I'm starting to see what these people are after, and I don't think allowing them to use our freedoms, to destroy those freedoms is the right way to go.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, I liked. I liked his. His point he made about how if not every idea should be tolerated. I mean, that is simply. That's something that, That's the idea that we have to tolerate. every idea, is something that is crept into our society, because of,

>> Ed Vitagliano: Well, he said tolerance.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Tolerance. Yeah, because of the, moral subjectivity rather than moral objectivity. Right. With this idea that what is what is good, what is bad, what is truth? so, yeah, I agree with that. I mean, a society cannot survive if the people in that society don't have. Don't agree on foundational morals and values. So as soon as an idea is introduced that is, antithetical to those, you have to reject it. Otherwise you risk it infecting and, changing the hearts and minds of. Of people within your society. And that's what we're seeing across these college campuses. I, I'm always amazed at. You know, I remember the first time I found out that a lot of, these Ivy League colleges were once like deeply, deeply, religious, deeply Christian universities for that reason. And to me it just goes to show that the pursuit of knowledge and the pursuit and discussion of ideas is something that God has imbued into us. But Once you start separating, the Bible and God from that pursuit, you end up with the result that we have now at these colleges, which a lot of those same Ivy League colleges are bastions and strongholds of liberal, and now Marxist, you know, and socialist, ideas.

>> Ed Vitagliano: And I would just say this, I'm not trying to walk this back. I was, when I was saying I was talking about schools and colleges and universities. When I say you can't tolerate it, you should not have professors in there who are advocating the overthrow of the Constitution. if they want to talk about Marxist ideas as an academic study, that's different. But we have a generation of children who have been taught to hate our country, to hate our founding principles and ideas, hate God, hate Christianity. And then we wonder how these Communists are getting elected.

>> Tony Vitagliano: Yeah, I don't mean when I say we shouldn't tolerate them. I don't mean we should punish those who are having those. It's just that as a society, I think it's okay to reject those ideas that are, antithetical to what we believe.

>> Ed Vitagliano: All right, folks, we're going to take a five minute break for news and then more stunning observations and insights as we look at what, what's happening in the country.

>> Tony Vitagliano: The views and opinions expressed in this

>> Frank Gaffney: broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of

>> Tony Vitagliano: the American Family association or American Family Radio.

Ed, Tony and Fred talk with Chris on top news headlines of the day. Also, Dr. Walter Wendler joins the program to discuss the Democratic Socialist of America. 

Chapters:

(00:00) Steve Crampton is assistant general counsel for the American Family Association

(03:50) Chris: There's been some reaction to the Fauci hearing yesterday

(05:47) Rand Paul is still talking about how they can possibly hold Dr. Fauci in contempt

(11:58) Chris: I hope Foushee is held in contempt of Congress

(14:31) Rand Paul wants to paralyze the federal government with the threat of civil lawsuits

(16:06) Hours after President Trump warned Iran would get a beating, US Forces unleashed airstrikes

(23:02) Fred: I'm worried for Republicans going into the midterms

(24:59) Preborn Network helps mothers facing unexpected pregnancies discover hope through a free ultrasound

(26:13) Tim Wildmon announces two separate tours scheduled for 2027

(28:05) Dr. Walter Wendler is president of West Texas A and M University

(37:30) God's hand keeps providing for me in ways that I can't describe

(38:16) Chris: Get engaged. Get involved in school issues. And not just in first and second grade

(42:25) Dr. Walter Wendler is president of West Texas A and M University

(47:52) Tony says not every idea should be tolerated, but tolerance is paramount