Rob West: Money is never just about money, and work is never just about a paycheck. Hi, I'm Rob West. Scripture teaches that God owns everything, gives us the ability to earn, and calls us to work with integrity because ultimately, we serve Christ. Today, Howard Dayton joins us to talk about earning money God's way and how biblical wisdom can shape our work, our businesses, and our generosity. And then we'll take your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, it's always a joy to welcome my good friend Howard Dayton back to the program. Howard is the founder of Compass Financial Ministry, and of course, the former host of this program. Howard, great to have you back with us.
Howard Dayton: Oh, great to be with you, Rob.
Rob West: Well, we love it when you stop by, Howard. And you write about earning in your book, Business God's Way, and I'd love to dive into that today because it's such a helpful topic. This is a book that helps people understand and apply God's financial principles in ways that reach the heart and transform lives, whether they're running a business or not. So let's begin with earning money God's way. Howard, what's the first thing we need to know?
Howard Dayton: Well, God owns everything, and He's your real boss, no matter if you're self-employed, Rob, or you work for someone else.
Rob West: Yeah.
Howard Dayton: I love what Colossians 3:23 and 24 tell us: "Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than men... It is the Lord Christ whom you serve." And even your ability to earn is a gift from God. Deuteronomy 8:18 tells us, "You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you the power to get wealth."
Rob West: Well, that puts things in perspective. The next time you get pretty excited about something you've accomplished, remember it's the Lord who gave you the ability to do it. All right, let's talk about some principles here. What principles should we follow as we earn money?
Howard Dayton: Well, the very first one is that we should be totally honest, Rob.
Rob West: Yeah.
Howard Dayton: Business people need to treat customers, vendors, even competitors with complete integrity. And workers? Well, they need to be honest with their employers. I like to tell them, "Never steal even a pencil or a penny from your employer."
Rob West: Mm, yeah, that's exactly right. And as we do those things, it's important to remember that we represent Christ in the workplace, right?
Howard Dayton: I sure would agree with that. Jesus says in Matthew 5:16, "Let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven."
Rob West: Yeah, that's great. Howard, when it comes to the business owner, owning and running a business, as you well know, is a challenge. What comes to mind first and foremost, perhaps a biblical principle that can help with that?
Howard Dayton: Yeah, Rob, I think planning a course and being in order certainly come to mind. Now, we might not think of being in order as a biblical principle, but it is. In 1 Corinthians 14:40, it says, "All things should be done decently and in order."
Rob West: Yeah.
Howard Dayton: And I would also add not presuming on the future would certainly be another principle. James 4 warns us, "Come now, you who say, 'Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a town and spend a year there and make a profit'—yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring."
Rob West: Mm, that's so good, Howard. Now, the world would probably agree with many of these principles for running a business or earning wages because they help the bottom line, but probably not generosity, do you think?
Howard Dayton: No, I sure—I sure don't think that comes to mind for a lot of folks! You know, the world often looks at making a living really as dog-eat-dog competition, but that's not how a Christian should view it, especially when it comes to giving. Proverbs tells us, "One person gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds what he should give, but comes to poverty. A generous person will prosper; whoever refreshes others will be refreshed." Now, I don't think that means God will always reward you with material wealth, but He promises to bless those who are generous. And in my experience, He can do that in a lot of different and very creative ways.
Rob West: Well, that's exactly right. And there are a lot of ways to give, Howard. You could give a tithe off the profits, you could even give the whole business away, like Alan Barnhart and Stanley Tam, right?
Howard Dayton: That's exactly right. And you know, I would take a look at how can you creatively give, and even stretch yourself to give more than you have in the past.
Rob West: And then watch what God does as you're faithful to use your business as an engine for ministry. Well, Howard, thanks for stopping by and for bringing the counsel of Scripture, which is always where we want to look when we're talking about money and finances. God bless you, my friend.
Howard Dayton: Well, thank you. Loved the time together, Rob.
Rob West: That's Howard Dayton, author of Business God's Way. It's a wonderful resource for understanding and applying God's financial principles not only in business, but in every area of life. We'll be right back.
David Wollen: For your walk with Jesus, I'm David Wollen with Haven Today, inviting you to anchor your day in God's Word. God does not need you or me. But that should not be offensive to us. In fact, that's a truth that should be very freeing to us—to know that God is eternal, that He always has been and always will be. In Psalm 50, God says, "I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens, for every animal of the forest is mine, the world is mine, and all that is in it." God has no needs in that sense, but He does have desires. And one of those is for relationship with you and me. He wants us to love Him, which is why the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. Get more encouragement for your walk at haventoday.org.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. What a treat to have Howard Dayton with us today. Such a gift. You know, Howard, as far as Faith & Finance is concerned, sat in the seat I sit in each day prior to me. He's such a gift. He's been a mentor, you know, just like Larry Burkett and so many others—Dan Celia—has just been such a giant of the faith, contributing to God's people understanding God's way of handling His money. And it is a gift, and just so indebted to Howard. I know so many of you have been impacted by his ministry through Compass Financial Ministries now, you know, doing such incredible work around the globe. And, you know, just so thankful for what he has done and continues to contribute to this day.
We do have a really exciting announcement that literally is just coming in. You've been hearing us talk about what's going on with Preborn as FaithFi has partnered with Preborn to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds for moms considering abortion—$28 per ultrasound. And we've been on our way to this goal that closes on Monday, August the 31st. And we just got word that somebody wants to double, wants to match everything that comes in! So if we can reach our goal of $42,000, which is 1,500 ultrasounds at $28 a piece, they will make it not 1,500, but 3,000 ultrasounds—$84,000, which is just incredible!
So whatever comes in, every time you give $28 between now through Monday, when you go to faithfi.com/preborn, just know that that $28 is not going to fund one ultrasound, it's now going to fund two ultrasounds for a mom considering abortion so she can see her baby, be presented the Gospel, and if she chooses life, Preborn will journey with her for up to a couple of years with diapers and other really needed resources. Just so gracious of such generous people. You all are amazing, and we're so thankful for this late word here that somebody has been impressed by the Lord to double whatever comes in from this entire campaign—not just today through Monday, but going all the way back to the start. Everything we get toward these 1,500, which we've been working on for several months now, is going to be doubled through August 31st, Monday.
So if you'd like to be a part of it and make a gift right now, $28 funds a free ultrasound at faithfi.com/preborn, and just know that will now fund two, which is really incredible.
All right, we're going to be taking your calls today on any financial topic. We'd love to hear from you. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. Again, that's 800-525-7000. We would love to hear from you today and tackle whatever questions you are considering in your financial life. Let's do that. We're going to dive in. Deena, you'll be our first caller in Ohio. Go ahead.
Deena: Hi, thanks for taking my call. Thanks for taking my call and for what you do. I am a long-time listener of AFR and all the programs that they're doing. And I was introduced to Larry Burkett in 1993. I know that ages me a little bit!
Rob West: Ha! That's incredible!
Deena: Yeah, my real estate agent forced me to take a class—the class with him, his video courses, before I could buy my house. I thought that was really brilliant of her. But anyway...
Rob West: I love that.
Deena: I know, it's awesome. I went to a retirement event my work was putting on...
Rob West: Oh, Deena, we're losing you for a second. I think you're back. Go ahead.
Deena: I went for a retirement event that my work was putting on, and I was really stressed out by something that the gentleman said. So the question I had to him was: I'll be 67 in two years. I'm going to take my Social Security. I want to invest it myself and name my own beneficiaries because I don't trust the government with my money. And he said—and I still want to work full-time, I hope to work till I'm 72—but he told me that I would be taxed 80% of my Social Security, and then he didn't allow any follow-up questions. I tried to research it on Google, but I'm very confused. I would be taxed at 80% on my Social Security? It doesn't make sense.
Rob West: Yeah, yeah. Let me explain. You heard some things right, but other things are misunderstood. So it's not that the tax rate is 80%. It's what percent of your Social Security is included in your taxable income. The rate at which you pay that tax is just based on your marginal tax rate, based on your total adjusted gross income. So that's kind of the punchline. Let me back up and explain a bit further.
So essentially, by waiting until 67, you're going to get your full retirement age benefit. There's not going to be an earnings limit, so that's good—meaning you're going to get 100% of what is coming to you based on your high 35 years of earnings. You're not going to have any reduction, and you can earn as much as you want without that impacting, you know, your benefit at all because you're full retirement age. So that's great.
Now, in terms of Social Security being taxable, a lot of people are caught off guard by this because they think, "Well, wait a minute, I've been paying into Social Security all these years. You mean as it comes out to me, I now have to pay tax on it like income?" And the answer is: you might. Because here's how that works. The IRS looks at your income—all of your income—and then half of your Social Security benefits get added to that income. And then depending upon how much total income you have, that's what determines whether or not your Social Security is taxable.
So, for instance, if you're filing as a single filer and that combined amount—your other income plus half of your Social Security—if it exceeds $34,000, then up to 85% of your Social Security benefit can be taxable. Now, that's not an 85% tax rate; that's just what percent is going to be taxable, and then again, it's going to be according to your marginal tax rate. Does that make sense?
Deena: Yes, I got it. Okay, okay. So it's that it's taxable income. As you said, some people have the misunderstanding that just because you paid into it already, they're going to give it to you tax-free. I don't think the government does anything tax-free.
Rob West: That's right! That's right.
Deena: Okay, that makes way more sense. I just could not understand what the internet searches were telling me. That is so helpful, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much!
Rob West: Well, I'm happy to do it, Deena. And thanks for calling out the late Larry Burkett, that's incredible. And I'm so thankful for the impact he's had in your life. It's amazing to me that not a week goes by—and Larry passed in 2003—somebody mentions Larry Burkett's name, which is just amazing. And we're so grateful for the opportunity to be able to walk in his giant shoes as we continue to share God's principles of money management with God's people. Thanks for your call today. Lord bless you.
800-525-7000 is the number to call. We're taking your questions today, helping you apply biblical wisdom to your financial decisions. And we're going to do that as we continue after the break. We'll be headed to Texas, and then out to Maryland, and we'll make a stop in West Virginia.
But room for your questions as well! So if you've got something on your mind today, we would love to hear about it. The number is 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000.
You know, as we think about managing God's money, so often we hear from people that say, "Can you just kind of boil it down to the basics? Like, what are those principles I need to have in mind as I manage God's money?"
And here's what I would say. You know, ultimately, it comes down to first recognizing God owns it all—that you and I are stewards, not owners. And so we don't have ownership rights; we have stewardship responsibilities. But those money management principles are these:
First of all, that we live within our means. That's the key to every financial success. Second, that we avoid debt, because debt mortgages the future, and it can even rob God of an opportunity to provide. And third, we need to have some margin, some liquidity—something left over at the end of the month, which is absolutely essential. Then we need to set long-term goals, because the longer-term your perspective, the better your decision today. And we need to give generously, because giving breaks the grip of money over our lives and allows us to participate in God's redemptive work. Those are the principles: spend less than you earn, avoid debt, set long-term goals, have some margin, give generously. I hope that helps! Hey, back with your questions after this. Stick around!
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West, and we're taking your calls and questions today, 800-525-7000. Hey, just a quick reminder, we're headed toward the end of our campaign with Preborn, trying to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds between FaithFi and Preborn. And that's going to allow moms considering abortion to see their babies and be presented with the gospel. Every $28 given is going to go toward one of those 1,500 free ultrasounds at faithfi.com/preborn. Oh, we just got word literally this morning that whatever we bring in as of August 31st up to those 1,500 free ultrasounds ($42,000), we have a donor that's going to double it. And we just learned that about an hour ago. So that's incredible because every gift you make of $28 is not going to fund one free ultrasound, it's going to fund two, which is just incredible. So if you'd like to be a part of this, just head to faithfi.com/preborn. 100% of what's given goes to Preborn. I know so many of you AFR listeners know this ministry, you love it, and we're honored to be able to just do yet one additional spotlight on their great work. faithfi.com/preborn.
Rob West: All right, back to the phones. We're going to head out to Texas. Carrie, how can I help you?
Carrie: Oh, good morning.
Rob West: Hi, thanks for calling.
Carrie: Hi, yeah, thank you for taking my call. Um, so I'm I'm at a point My mom passed away at the end of May. She was 96 years old. I'm so I love my mom. I was grateful for um for everything she did for us. She left um an inheritance for us, meaning myself, I'm 59, and my daughter, she's 20. Um she left $452,000 in life insurance. Um and then the the rest then her estate, which has been added to uh I don't have siblings. So it has been added to what I have saved over the years. Um I'm just at the point where I'm I'm trying to decide what to do with the life insurance money that I was so grateful to receive. Um $52,000 $52,000 of the 452, I'm setting aside just because I want to make sure we have a cushion. My daughter uh we're trying to live very frugally, but she's gone off to college just about an hour away. It's the most economical way we can do things. She's going to live in the dorms. She's an RA. And so she'll be living there um and that will be her work as an RA and going to school um for a dental hy- dental hygiene, so she tried to pick something very practical. Yes, yes. So,
Rob West: I love that. AI can't replace dental hygienists, I don't think, last time I checked. So, I think that's a good move.
Carrie: Yeah. Yeah, I we certainly hope so. I mean, we've, you know, I've prayed on this and my daughter's a Christian also. And like I say, we're trying to, you know, try trying to live right. Um but it's just me. Um, you know, I don't I don't have a husband. Um I my job ended a couple years ago. Uh they just closed the unit where I worked. I'm a nurse. And so at that time my mom was not doing well, so I ended up just staying with her, taking care of her. Yes. So, um my point is I don't have retirement. I did save and put into my Roth IRAs, however. I I do have that. Great. Great. Well, My daughter's 20, she started she and she started adding to her Roth IRAs, but so I'm looking at $400,000 trying to figure out what direction to go in to invest that in the wisest fashion.
Rob West: Yeah, I love that. Well, uh I'm so thankful for your call today. I'm so sorry to hear that your mom passed, but I love that you're thinking about what it looks like to be a faithful steward of what you are now entrusted. Uh it all belongs to God. Every dollar of the $400+ thousand is the Lord's, but he has seen fit to make you the steward of those resources. So you don't have ownership rights, you have stewardship responsibilities, and that's a high calling because you're now a money manager for the King of Kings, which is incredible! And the good news is he doesn't just leave us to our own devices. He gives us his word and he gives us wise counsel to make those decisions on how do you steward well what God has entrusted to you.
Rob West: And so I wouldn't be in a rush to do anything. Um, this should be tax-free because it's um life insurance proceeds. And uh so in terms of where you go from here, I love the fact that you're thinking about parking all of it, first of all, safely. So I'd put it in a high-yield savings account, or a money market deposit account, um or short-term US Treasuries, something safe, um where it's it's guaranteed up to $250,000, and maybe you put it in a couple of different accounts to spread it out.
Rob West: And then you'd want to second, look at your whole financial picture. So you're 59, you're working part-time, you uh, you know, have some retirement savings, but not a lot. Um, you're living modestly, those are all good things. And then you want to separate the money out in buckets, if you will, by when you need it, right? So if you have money that you're going to need over the next few years, you're going to want to stay very conservative with that. Certainly with your emergency fund, that portion that you want to use to shore up your emergency reserves, you're going to want to keep that in savings, so it's liquid, safe, but earning interest.
Rob West: And then money that you don't expect to touch for the next 5+ better yet 10+ years can be safely invested. Now, that doesn't mean we throw caution to the wind or we get overly aggressive, but it does mean you want to get this money working for you because every month, every day really, it's losing purchasing power through inflation. As things cost more, the effective uh use of that dollar diminishes over time. And so you want to get it growing for you. And I think we see that modeled among other places in Scripture in the parable of the talents. We take what God has entrusted to us, and we know the Master, and and we trust the Master, and so we're able to take and be productive with that money.
Rob West: And that means, you know, perhaps in a very uh conservative way getting that invested in things like bonds and maybe some conservative stocks, maybe with just a small portion. But the overall goal would be that you try to grow what you have so that you can tap into it down the road if you needed it as an income stream alongside Social Security, or maybe you need it for long-term care if you ever need that.
Rob West: But I would use an advisor for that, and I would use a Certified Kingdom Advisor. I'd be happy to connect you with a CKA personally, but I would have an advisor that could help you do the planning, get to know you, where God is leading you, somebody who understands the counsel of Scripture, but also has significant experience in financial planning and investment management. Stay on the line, we'll talk a bit more. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Well, we're taking your calls and questions. We did just get word earlier this morning that every gift to faithfi.com/preborn, every gift to Preborn between now and Monday is going to be doubled. And this is news we just got about an hour and a half ago. So essentially, we've been working toward a goal with Preborn to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds. Every $28 given funds one of them; we're looking for 1,500. We had a donor that called and said, "Whatever you get as of the end of 11:59 on Monday, August 31st, we're going to double it." So if you can get to 1,500 ultrasounds, we'll now have 3,000 free ultrasounds. Your $42,000 will become $84,000. That's amazing. But it's only going to be the number that comes in gets doubled. So if you'd like to be a part of it, every $28 will fund now two free ultrasounds. Just go to faithfi.com/preborn.
Let's head back to the phones. We do have room for a few more questions. If you've got something on your mind, call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's go out to West Virginia. Julie, how can I help you?
Julie: Hi, good morning. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it. So my husband and I have a trust, and we are wondering: Will our trust protect our house and our other property from being considered as like an available asset or money if one of us has to go into long-term care? Or would we need to transfer the home or property into someone else's name in order to protect it? And then kind of along with this, we've also heard that there could be a five-year lookback period. So like right now we're healthy, we're thankful for that, and we hope we don't have to use it, but we also want to be thinking ahead.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question, and at the end of the day, you'd really need to talk to an elder care estate planning attorney to talk you through the options, because that revocable trust is not going to provide any kind of protection. So essentially, because you created the trust and can revoke it—it's not irrevocable—you still control the property. Therefore, Medicaid treats the assets in a self-funded revocable trust as available resources when determining eligibility for long-term care Medicaid.
So there's really two separate issues here. If you're paying privately for long-term care, the nursing facility doesn't simply get to take the house, so to speak. They receive payment for the care provided, but because you control the assets in your trust, those assets could ultimately need to be used to pay your expenses. If you eventually need Medicaid to pay for long-term care, again, that doesn't shelter the assets from the financial eligibility rules. And you're right, they do have a five-year lookback on transfers for less than market value. So you just need to understand that is the case.
You know, there are protections for married couples. If one spouse enters a nursing facility and the other is at home, then the spousal impoverishment rules protect certain income and assets for the spouse who remains in the community. There's also restrictions on when Medicaid can place a lien on a home, including protections when a spouse continues to live there. So ultimately, you just need to understand that's the way it works, and I wouldn't be transferring the house or changing the trust solely to qualify for Medicaid without real professional guidance on that. So I think that really is your next step.
Julie: Okay, that's great. No, the main concern was if one person is left, standard house gets taken from them and then, you know, they don't have somewhere—everything's gone. But okay, no, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much. That's so clear. I really appreciate your clarity in explaining pretty much everything. So thank you very, very much.
Rob West: Well, I'm delighted to. Thanks for listening and call anytime if you have other questions. 800-525-7000 is the number to call if you have a financial question today. You can call right now, we'd love to hear from you. By the way, in the next segment Jerry Bowyer stops by. We'll get Jerry's update on the markets. We'll also check in on AFA's work in corporate engagement. That's in our next segment. Let's go to Maryland. Hi Linda, go ahead.
Linda: Good morning. How are you?
Rob West: I'm doing great. Thanks for your call.
Linda: Um, uh... I am uh... I am 71. I started collecting my Social Security at 62 early. And my husband's going to be 67 in October, and he's going to start—he'll start collecting his full Social Security. I've heard you talk about those spousal benefits and stuff. Would I qualify for that? Do they check on that automatically, or is that something we have to apply for?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. So essentially, what you need to understand there is because you've already started collecting your Social Security and your husband plans to start his in October, you may become eligible for an additional spousal benefit once his benefits begin. You have to—he has to walk through his door before you unlock those spousal benefits. So when he begins that in October, that makes it possible.
And the key calculation is based on his full retirement age benefit, not necessarily the check he receives. So as a spouse, you can get up to 50% of his full retirement age benefit. And Social Security will first pay you your own retirement benefit, and then if the spousal amount is higher—that up to 50% amount that's available for spouses based on his—then they will add a spousal amount to bring your total up to the higher benefit.
So let's do an example. Let's say his full retirement age benefit is $3,000 a month. Half of that is $1,500. If your benefit on your own record is $1,100, you could qualify for an additional $400 a month in my example as a spousal benefit. Now, one complication is, since you started your own benefit at 62, your own benefit was permanently reduced for claiming early. You can't assume that you'll simply receive exactly 50% of his benefit now.
So what I would do is when he files for Social Security in October, I would tell Social Security—have him tell them—that his wife is already receiving retirement benefits and wants to be evaluated for spousal benefits on his record. You know, their current publication specifically says that when someone is already receiving retirement benefits and the spouse files later, they may become eligible and must file for the spouse's benefit when the spouse files. So I wouldn't rely on it automatically appearing in your check. I would reach out to them to do so.
Linda: Okay. Thank you very much. Can I do another quick question?
Rob West: Yes, ma'am.
Linda: My sister-in-law is 61, and her husband died last year. And since then, she's been having some state benefits like SNAP and Medicaid. Well, last week, an aunt gave her a large check, a tax-free gift she had on it, I guess part of her inheritance. And now she doesn't know what to do with it, and she's afraid she'll lose some of her benefits.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. And so you said that just happened recently?
Linda: Yes, just like last week.
Rob West: Okay, got it. Yeah, I mean, so that could, of course, affect her need-based eligibility. Because she's on Medicaid and SNAP, it depends on what type of Medicaid she has and what state she's in. For Medicaid, adults qualify under the Modified Adjusted Gross Income Medicaid, which generally uses income rather than assets. Other categories rely on—you know, particularly those connected to SSI or long-term care—can have different resource rules. For SNAP, a one-time lump sum is generally treated differently from recurring income. So I would say, you know, find out exactly what program she's in, and I would reach out to that office to report the gift and ask how it affects eligibility. But she may be pleasantly surprised on that. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance. Well, it's Friday, it means Jerry Bowyer's here. We always look forward to Jerry's visit. And, you know, Jerry, you're an economist, right?
Jerry Bowyer: That's what they tell me.
Rob West: Okay, so I mean, you should be able to go to Jackson Hole and Davos, right? So like Switzerland, and, you know, they hang out at some really cool places.
Jerry Bowyer: Well, I haven't been to Davos, but I have been to Jackson Hole and actually spoke there. What I took from that experience is if anyone goes to Jackson Hole, the first thing you notice is that it's oxygen-deprived. It's very high up, and, you know, your ears clog and you get a little dizzy, especially if, like, since I was a speaker, you know, I had to do that a lot. And, you know, that helped me explain the quality of the decision-making process there in the past. It's just... David Letterman used to say, with just a little less oxygen than people really require, and then let's put them in charge of global finance. What could go wrong? So, by the way, we just... Susan and I just listened to the Kevin Warsh speech at Jackson Hole. We listened to the whole thing because, you know, we're romantic. So, you know, Friday's date day for us, so we listened to that.
Rob West: For some reason, Julie, I don't think is going to go for that, but I'll see how that plays.
Jerry Bowyer: The FOMC chair... You don't know until you try.
Rob West: I'm going to give it a shot. Date night.
Jerry Bowyer: Julie might. I think she'll do her best. Yes, exactly. So, I thought it was a really terrific speech. Now, I turned to Susan and I said, "Markets are falling right now." I didn't look, but they will, and gold will go down and the dollar will go up. And then I turned, you know, looked at the markets and they were falling, and dollar went up and gold went down because it's a hawkish speech. And it really expresses something that's, you know, shows the challenge of where the Fed is now, because basically it was almost an anti-Fed Fed speech. It was basically him saying, "Don't pay attention to the Fed so much. We're not supposed to manage the economy. We're not supposed to manage the markets."
Rob West: Yeah, he talked about this quieter Fed. I mean, is that the idea there?
Jerry Bowyer: Exactly. A quieter Fed, so no forward guidance. No, "This is what we think we're going to do, but we don't know." But also a Fed that isn't manipulating markets. And the reason he said that is because there's signal in the markets. So you and I know when we do these quarterly calls for KA, I say, "What is the market saying about the economy?" Well, he's saying is if, what he calls the hall of mirrors problem, if the Fed determines what markets say, and then the Fed looks at markets to say, "What are they saying?" Well, then it's just listening to itself, it's just looking into a mirror. They push down interest rates, and lower interest rates mean, "Oh, everything's fine." But wait, the Fed artificially pushed down interest rates. So he's trying to figure out a way for the Fed to stop pushing markets around so that it can listen to markets. But the problem is while he was saying that, markets said, "Oh, okay. Well, that means you're going to raise interest rates." And, and therefore, they reacted accordingly. So we're going to have... He wants to put the Fed back in a box where it is historically: focused on the value of the dollar, focused on fighting inflation. Even when he affirmed the dual mandate, it was really interesting. He said, "Well, we still have the dual mandate, but mainly that's because, you know, inflation's bad for the economy." So he's really saying, "Well, we have a dual mandate: fight inflation and also have a good economy. But a good economy is low inflation." So he's trying to get down to the single mandate without technically violating the law, which says you have to manage both things. And he's trying to get the Fed out of the business of being prophet and oracle, and into the business of focusing on the value of the dollar and fighting inflation. So I was excited when Kevin Warsh was nominated. I was excited when he was confirmed. I'm excited by this speech about what he's going to do. He was there in 2008 and I was on Larry Kudlow's show a lot and we would talk about some of these issues. And we would see Kevin Warsh a couple days later come out and say some of the same stuff we were saying. So that was kind of nice, that was kind of an ego boost. He was listening to the right people, or at least he was listening to us. But the Fed is still seen as the controller of markets and the controller of the economy. So even a speech that says, "We shouldn't control markets," controlled markets. So it's going to be tough. We turned the Fed from a guardian of the value of the dollar into something like a god on earth. And once we've done that, then it's hard to get it out of the god and prophet role and back just to the role of being a bank that if there's a general panic, they'll lend. Otherwise, we're just going to basically try to keep the value of the dollar in next year be the same as the value of the dollar this year.
Rob West: Can you put that genie back in the bottle, though?
Jerry Bowyer: I don't know, honestly I don't know. I mean, he tried to today, and even though I loved the speech, it failed if the job was to get the markets to stop listening to the Fed, because they responded. I mean, gold went down, dollar went up. I haven't even looked at interest rate futures, but I bet when I do after this call, I'm going to say that interest rate futures probably went up, and markets generally went down. They started off going up, but then they went down in general. So markets are basically still looking at this through the lens of, when the Fed chairman speaks, what does that tell us about the future of monetary policy? Even though he's saying to the markets, "Stop listening to us." So that's a tough spot, and I don't know if he can get out of it, but I'm glad someone's trying to.
Rob West: Yeah, yeah. It's going to be fascinating to watch, but it's exciting because this is something you've been talking about for a long, long time, Jerry, as long as I've known you, and the idea that we could be making moves in this direction is really in a direction toward more sound, biblical principles of economics, right?
Jerry Bowyer: Absolutely. And, you know, I don't know if he intended a little wink and nod out there, but towards the end of his speech, he talked about the Fed having an opportunity to redeem the time. So, a little bit of biblical language there. And he talked a lot about humility. So, you know, I like this Fed chairman. May God give him grace to accomplish what I think is what a biblical approach to economics would require. And I'm not saying you're not a good Christian if you disagree with me, I'm just telling you this is my take on a biblical approach to economics. Unjust weights and measures are an abomination to the Lord. Inflation is an evil. It's not just a technical mistake. It is an evil because it takes wealth from some people and gives it to others. I don't like redistribution downward as in socialism, and I certainly don't like redistribution upward, and that is generally what a micromanaging Fed has done. It puts money into markets so that people who are invested, those markets go up, and then as the money sifts out into the rest of the economy, prices for everybody else go up. So the people who are least able to afford those higher prices, people who aren't in the markets, are the ones who get hit with those higher prices. So Fed policy has been redistributing wealth upward to market participants, to Wall Street, and to the government because they monetize debt. Where does the money go first? When the Fed creates money and lends it to the federal government, where does it go first? Well, it goes to the federal government. That's powerful people. If for those who are scoring at home, that's called the Cantillon effect. You don't have to remember that. It's just that when inflation comes into the economy, it doesn't come in evenly. The easy money gets to powerful people first, then the money sifts out into the economy, and then the price rises affect the least powerful people after. And I think it's a just cause for him to try to fight that system, and may God grant him that and us.
Rob West: Yes. Amen. Jerry, is the 10-year at 4.6, 4.7, is that sustainable just given the debt levels we have as a country?
Jerry Bowyer: Probably not. I mean, it's artificially low because of Fed policy, right? They still own a lot in these various operations: QE, and Twist, and all these other things. So as they get out of bond markets, I think the natural interest rate is probably higher than that, especially given inflation problems, but also as default risks rise. So you know from the blackboard videos, to me, the interest rate is incredibly important. It tells us the truth about ourselves. A covenant-keeping people will tend to have lower interest rates because they're less likely to default. A government which recognizes sound money will tend to have lower interest rates because you don't have the inflation premium, you don't have to pay people more to compensate them for the theft of money. A saving people will tend to have lower interest rates because more money being lent means more available capital, and that tends to drive interest rates down. A borrowing, spending, covenant-breaking, inflationary people will tend to have higher interest rates. But John Maynard Keynes came along and said, "Well, we can't have that. So we want to keep everyone stimulated all the time and keep their animal spirits up. So let's give them artificially low interest rates so that we'll feel rich and go around and spend." And, you know, then it turns the mirror of interest rates into a skinny mirror. You know, I notice when I stay in hotels, I look and say, "Oh, this suit fits pretty well." And then I go see an honest mirror, it's like, "Oh wait, that suit doesn't fit as well as I thought." So Fed policy tells us a lie about ourselves, like we're a covenant-keeping people without a debasing government and without risk of default, and we're high savers. But we haven't earned those low interest rates, and so we lobotomize ourselves. And Warsh basically said that today, that market signals are muted when the Fed determines what those market signals are. He said hall of mirrors, I like that. It's like, yeah, but it's a hall of skinny mirrors, it's even worse. A mirror shows you what you are, a skinny mirror shows you what you wish you would be. And therefore, it really hides our errors. So anyway, I liked his response on interest rates, and I think that America has had historically low interest rates historically, right? Great Britain did. So when we were on a gold standard or a silver standard or some kind of absolute standard, and we had high savings rates and we had high growth rates, we earned our low interest rates, and all around the world, people wanted to put money into these Christian nations: the United States, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, because they were following biblical principles.
Rob West: Wow. Yeah, well said, Jerry. Well, we trust the Lord and we will continue to keep listeners updated here, but we appreciate your comments today.
Jerry Bowyer: Thank you. God bless.
Rob West: All right, that's Jerry Bowyer. He's our resident economist. We look forward to his time with us each Friday during this segment. Well, folks, that's going to do it for us today. Big thanks to my team, I certainly couldn't do this without the amazing work of Devin, Patty, Pat, Taylor, Jim, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible. Hey, don't forget, Monday is the last day of our campaign with Preborn, trying to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds, $28 a piece for moms considering abortion. Just got word a couple of hours ago, some generous donors are going to step in and double whatever we get by 11:59 PM on Monday, and so that means up to now 3,000 free ultrasounds. So if you'd like to make a gift, $28 funds not one, but two free ultrasounds. Just go to faithfi.com/preborn. That's faithfi.com/preborn. Have a wonderful weekend, come back and join us on Monday. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.
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Rob West: Money is never just about money, and work is never just about a paycheck. Hi, I'm Rob West. Scripture teaches that God owns everything, gives us the ability to earn, and calls us to work with integrity because ultimately, we serve Christ. Today, Howard Dayton joins us to talk about earning money God's way and how biblical wisdom can shape our work, our businesses, and our generosity. And then we'll take your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith & Finance on American Family Radio, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, it's always a joy to welcome my good friend Howard Dayton back to the program. Howard is the founder of Compass Financial Ministry, and of course, the former host of this program. Howard, great to have you back with us.
Howard Dayton: Oh, great to be with you, Rob.
Rob West: Well, we love it when you stop by, Howard. And you write about earning in your book, Business God's Way, and I'd love to dive into that today because it's such a helpful topic. This is a book that helps people understand and apply God's financial principles in ways that reach the heart and transform lives, whether they're running a business or not. So let's begin with earning money God's way. Howard, what's the first thing we need to know?
Howard Dayton: Well, God owns everything, and He's your real boss, no matter if you're self-employed, Rob, or you work for someone else.
Rob West: Yeah.
Howard Dayton: I love what Colossians 3:23 and 24 tell us: "Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than men... It is the Lord Christ whom you serve." And even your ability to earn is a gift from God. Deuteronomy 8:18 tells us, "You shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you the power to get wealth."
Rob West: Well, that puts things in perspective. The next time you get pretty excited about something you've accomplished, remember it's the Lord who gave you the ability to do it. All right, let's talk about some principles here. What principles should we follow as we earn money?
Howard Dayton: Well, the very first one is that we should be totally honest, Rob.
Rob West: Yeah.
Howard Dayton: Business people need to treat customers, vendors, even competitors with complete integrity. And workers? Well, they need to be honest with their employers. I like to tell them, "Never steal even a pencil or a penny from your employer."
Rob West: Mm, yeah, that's exactly right. And as we do those things, it's important to remember that we represent Christ in the workplace, right?
Howard Dayton: I sure would agree with that. Jesus says in Matthew 5:16, "Let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven."
Rob West: Yeah, that's great. Howard, when it comes to the business owner, owning and running a business, as you well know, is a challenge. What comes to mind first and foremost, perhaps a biblical principle that can help with that?
Howard Dayton: Yeah, Rob, I think planning a course and being in order certainly come to mind. Now, we might not think of being in order as a biblical principle, but it is. In 1 Corinthians 14:40, it says, "All things should be done decently and in order."
Rob West: Yeah.
Howard Dayton: And I would also add not presuming on the future would certainly be another principle. James 4 warns us, "Come now, you who say, 'Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a town and spend a year there and make a profit'—yet you do not know what tomorrow will bring."
Rob West: Mm, that's so good, Howard. Now, the world would probably agree with many of these principles for running a business or earning wages because they help the bottom line, but probably not generosity, do you think?
Howard Dayton: No, I sure—I sure don't think that comes to mind for a lot of folks! You know, the world often looks at making a living really as dog-eat-dog competition, but that's not how a Christian should view it, especially when it comes to giving. Proverbs tells us, "One person gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds what he should give, but comes to poverty. A generous person will prosper; whoever refreshes others will be refreshed." Now, I don't think that means God will always reward you with material wealth, but He promises to bless those who are generous. And in my experience, He can do that in a lot of different and very creative ways.
Rob West: Well, that's exactly right. And there are a lot of ways to give, Howard. You could give a tithe off the profits, you could even give the whole business away, like Alan Barnhart and Stanley Tam, right?
Howard Dayton: That's exactly right. And you know, I would take a look at how can you creatively give, and even stretch yourself to give more than you have in the past.
Rob West: And then watch what God does as you're faithful to use your business as an engine for ministry. Well, Howard, thanks for stopping by and for bringing the counsel of Scripture, which is always where we want to look when we're talking about money and finances. God bless you, my friend.
Howard Dayton: Well, thank you. Loved the time together, Rob.
Rob West: That's Howard Dayton, author of Business God's Way. It's a wonderful resource for understanding and applying God's financial principles not only in business, but in every area of life. We'll be right back.
David Wollen: For your walk with Jesus, I'm David Wollen with Haven Today, inviting you to anchor your day in God's Word. God does not need you or me. But that should not be offensive to us. In fact, that's a truth that should be very freeing to us—to know that God is eternal, that He always has been and always will be. In Psalm 50, God says, "I have no need of a bull from your stall or of goats from your pens, for every animal of the forest is mine, the world is mine, and all that is in it." God has no needs in that sense, but He does have desires. And one of those is for relationship with you and me. He wants us to love Him, which is why the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. Get more encouragement for your walk at haventoday.org.
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Announcer: If we do all of those other things, but the Gospel is not being proclaimed, we will continue to see the erosion of our nation from the inside. Religion informs politics; politics touches every aspect of our lives. And as the Scripture discusses that the Lord has made His people to be living epistles, what story are we a part of? Join Abraham Hamilton III on The Hamilton Corner, weekdays at 5:00 p.m. Central on American Family Radio.
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Rob West: Great to have you with us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. What a treat to have Howard Dayton with us today. Such a gift. You know, Howard, as far as Faith & Finance is concerned, sat in the seat I sit in each day prior to me. He's such a gift. He's been a mentor, you know, just like Larry Burkett and so many others—Dan Celia—has just been such a giant of the faith, contributing to God's people understanding God's way of handling His money. And it is a gift, and just so indebted to Howard. I know so many of you have been impacted by his ministry through Compass Financial Ministries now, you know, doing such incredible work around the globe. And, you know, just so thankful for what he has done and continues to contribute to this day.
We do have a really exciting announcement that literally is just coming in. You've been hearing us talk about what's going on with Preborn as FaithFi has partnered with Preborn to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds for moms considering abortion—$28 per ultrasound. And we've been on our way to this goal that closes on Monday, August the 31st. And we just got word that somebody wants to double, wants to match everything that comes in! So if we can reach our goal of $42,000, which is 1,500 ultrasounds at $28 a piece, they will make it not 1,500, but 3,000 ultrasounds—$84,000, which is just incredible!
So whatever comes in, every time you give $28 between now through Monday, when you go to faithfi.com/preborn, just know that that $28 is not going to fund one ultrasound, it's now going to fund two ultrasounds for a mom considering abortion so she can see her baby, be presented the Gospel, and if she chooses life, Preborn will journey with her for up to a couple of years with diapers and other really needed resources. Just so gracious of such generous people. You all are amazing, and we're so thankful for this late word here that somebody has been impressed by the Lord to double whatever comes in from this entire campaign—not just today through Monday, but going all the way back to the start. Everything we get toward these 1,500, which we've been working on for several months now, is going to be doubled through August 31st, Monday.
So if you'd like to be a part of it and make a gift right now, $28 funds a free ultrasound at faithfi.com/preborn, and just know that will now fund two, which is really incredible.
All right, we're going to be taking your calls today on any financial topic. We'd love to hear from you. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. Again, that's 800-525-7000. We would love to hear from you today and tackle whatever questions you are considering in your financial life. Let's do that. We're going to dive in. Deena, you'll be our first caller in Ohio. Go ahead.
Deena: Hi, thanks for taking my call. Thanks for taking my call and for what you do. I am a long-time listener of AFR and all the programs that they're doing. And I was introduced to Larry Burkett in 1993. I know that ages me a little bit!
Rob West: Ha! That's incredible!
Deena: Yeah, my real estate agent forced me to take a class—the class with him, his video courses, before I could buy my house. I thought that was really brilliant of her. But anyway...
Rob West: I love that.
Deena: I know, it's awesome. I went to a retirement event my work was putting on...
Rob West: Oh, Deena, we're losing you for a second. I think you're back. Go ahead.
Deena: I went for a retirement event that my work was putting on, and I was really stressed out by something that the gentleman said. So the question I had to him was: I'll be 67 in two years. I'm going to take my Social Security. I want to invest it myself and name my own beneficiaries because I don't trust the government with my money. And he said—and I still want to work full-time, I hope to work till I'm 72—but he told me that I would be taxed 80% of my Social Security, and then he didn't allow any follow-up questions. I tried to research it on Google, but I'm very confused. I would be taxed at 80% on my Social Security? It doesn't make sense.
Rob West: Yeah, yeah. Let me explain. You heard some things right, but other things are misunderstood. So it's not that the tax rate is 80%. It's what percent of your Social Security is included in your taxable income. The rate at which you pay that tax is just based on your marginal tax rate, based on your total adjusted gross income. So that's kind of the punchline. Let me back up and explain a bit further.
So essentially, by waiting until 67, you're going to get your full retirement age benefit. There's not going to be an earnings limit, so that's good—meaning you're going to get 100% of what is coming to you based on your high 35 years of earnings. You're not going to have any reduction, and you can earn as much as you want without that impacting, you know, your benefit at all because you're full retirement age. So that's great.
Now, in terms of Social Security being taxable, a lot of people are caught off guard by this because they think, "Well, wait a minute, I've been paying into Social Security all these years. You mean as it comes out to me, I now have to pay tax on it like income?" And the answer is: you might. Because here's how that works. The IRS looks at your income—all of your income—and then half of your Social Security benefits get added to that income. And then depending upon how much total income you have, that's what determines whether or not your Social Security is taxable.
So, for instance, if you're filing as a single filer and that combined amount—your other income plus half of your Social Security—if it exceeds $34,000, then up to 85% of your Social Security benefit can be taxable. Now, that's not an 85% tax rate; that's just what percent is going to be taxable, and then again, it's going to be according to your marginal tax rate. Does that make sense?
Deena: Yes, I got it. Okay, okay. So it's that it's taxable income. As you said, some people have the misunderstanding that just because you paid into it already, they're going to give it to you tax-free. I don't think the government does anything tax-free.
Rob West: That's right! That's right.
Deena: Okay, that makes way more sense. I just could not understand what the internet searches were telling me. That is so helpful, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much!
Rob West: Well, I'm happy to do it, Deena. And thanks for calling out the late Larry Burkett, that's incredible. And I'm so thankful for the impact he's had in your life. It's amazing to me that not a week goes by—and Larry passed in 2003—somebody mentions Larry Burkett's name, which is just amazing. And we're so grateful for the opportunity to be able to walk in his giant shoes as we continue to share God's principles of money management with God's people. Thanks for your call today. Lord bless you.
800-525-7000 is the number to call. We're taking your questions today, helping you apply biblical wisdom to your financial decisions. And we're going to do that as we continue after the break. We'll be headed to Texas, and then out to Maryland, and we'll make a stop in West Virginia.
But room for your questions as well! So if you've got something on your mind today, we would love to hear about it. The number is 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000.
You know, as we think about managing God's money, so often we hear from people that say, "Can you just kind of boil it down to the basics? Like, what are those principles I need to have in mind as I manage God's money?"
And here's what I would say. You know, ultimately, it comes down to first recognizing God owns it all—that you and I are stewards, not owners. And so we don't have ownership rights; we have stewardship responsibilities. But those money management principles are these:
First of all, that we live within our means. That's the key to every financial success. Second, that we avoid debt, because debt mortgages the future, and it can even rob God of an opportunity to provide. And third, we need to have some margin, some liquidity—something left over at the end of the month, which is absolutely essential. Then we need to set long-term goals, because the longer-term your perspective, the better your decision today. And we need to give generously, because giving breaks the grip of money over our lives and allows us to participate in God's redemptive work. Those are the principles: spend less than you earn, avoid debt, set long-term goals, have some margin, give generously. I hope that helps! Hey, back with your questions after this. Stick around!
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West, and we're taking your calls and questions today, 800-525-7000. Hey, just a quick reminder, we're headed toward the end of our campaign with Preborn, trying to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds between FaithFi and Preborn. And that's going to allow moms considering abortion to see their babies and be presented with the gospel. Every $28 given is going to go toward one of those 1,500 free ultrasounds at faithfi.com/preborn. Oh, we just got word literally this morning that whatever we bring in as of August 31st up to those 1,500 free ultrasounds ($42,000), we have a donor that's going to double it. And we just learned that about an hour ago. So that's incredible because every gift you make of $28 is not going to fund one free ultrasound, it's going to fund two, which is just incredible. So if you'd like to be a part of this, just head to faithfi.com/preborn. 100% of what's given goes to Preborn. I know so many of you AFR listeners know this ministry, you love it, and we're honored to be able to just do yet one additional spotlight on their great work. faithfi.com/preborn.
Rob West: All right, back to the phones. We're going to head out to Texas. Carrie, how can I help you?
Carrie: Oh, good morning.
Rob West: Hi, thanks for calling.
Carrie: Hi, yeah, thank you for taking my call. Um, so I'm I'm at a point My mom passed away at the end of May. She was 96 years old. I'm so I love my mom. I was grateful for um for everything she did for us. She left um an inheritance for us, meaning myself, I'm 59, and my daughter, she's 20. Um she left $452,000 in life insurance. Um and then the the rest then her estate, which has been added to uh I don't have siblings. So it has been added to what I have saved over the years. Um I'm just at the point where I'm I'm trying to decide what to do with the life insurance money that I was so grateful to receive. Um $52,000 $52,000 of the 452, I'm setting aside just because I want to make sure we have a cushion. My daughter uh we're trying to live very frugally, but she's gone off to college just about an hour away. It's the most economical way we can do things. She's going to live in the dorms. She's an RA. And so she'll be living there um and that will be her work as an RA and going to school um for a dental hy- dental hygiene, so she tried to pick something very practical. Yes, yes. So,
Rob West: I love that. AI can't replace dental hygienists, I don't think, last time I checked. So, I think that's a good move.
Carrie: Yeah. Yeah, I we certainly hope so. I mean, we've, you know, I've prayed on this and my daughter's a Christian also. And like I say, we're trying to, you know, try trying to live right. Um but it's just me. Um, you know, I don't I don't have a husband. Um I my job ended a couple years ago. Uh they just closed the unit where I worked. I'm a nurse. And so at that time my mom was not doing well, so I ended up just staying with her, taking care of her. Yes. So, um my point is I don't have retirement. I did save and put into my Roth IRAs, however. I I do have that. Great. Great. Well, My daughter's 20, she started she and she started adding to her Roth IRAs, but so I'm looking at $400,000 trying to figure out what direction to go in to invest that in the wisest fashion.
Rob West: Yeah, I love that. Well, uh I'm so thankful for your call today. I'm so sorry to hear that your mom passed, but I love that you're thinking about what it looks like to be a faithful steward of what you are now entrusted. Uh it all belongs to God. Every dollar of the $400+ thousand is the Lord's, but he has seen fit to make you the steward of those resources. So you don't have ownership rights, you have stewardship responsibilities, and that's a high calling because you're now a money manager for the King of Kings, which is incredible! And the good news is he doesn't just leave us to our own devices. He gives us his word and he gives us wise counsel to make those decisions on how do you steward well what God has entrusted to you.
Rob West: And so I wouldn't be in a rush to do anything. Um, this should be tax-free because it's um life insurance proceeds. And uh so in terms of where you go from here, I love the fact that you're thinking about parking all of it, first of all, safely. So I'd put it in a high-yield savings account, or a money market deposit account, um or short-term US Treasuries, something safe, um where it's it's guaranteed up to $250,000, and maybe you put it in a couple of different accounts to spread it out.
Rob West: And then you'd want to second, look at your whole financial picture. So you're 59, you're working part-time, you uh, you know, have some retirement savings, but not a lot. Um, you're living modestly, those are all good things. And then you want to separate the money out in buckets, if you will, by when you need it, right? So if you have money that you're going to need over the next few years, you're going to want to stay very conservative with that. Certainly with your emergency fund, that portion that you want to use to shore up your emergency reserves, you're going to want to keep that in savings, so it's liquid, safe, but earning interest.
Rob West: And then money that you don't expect to touch for the next 5+ better yet 10+ years can be safely invested. Now, that doesn't mean we throw caution to the wind or we get overly aggressive, but it does mean you want to get this money working for you because every month, every day really, it's losing purchasing power through inflation. As things cost more, the effective uh use of that dollar diminishes over time. And so you want to get it growing for you. And I think we see that modeled among other places in Scripture in the parable of the talents. We take what God has entrusted to us, and we know the Master, and and we trust the Master, and so we're able to take and be productive with that money.
Rob West: And that means, you know, perhaps in a very uh conservative way getting that invested in things like bonds and maybe some conservative stocks, maybe with just a small portion. But the overall goal would be that you try to grow what you have so that you can tap into it down the road if you needed it as an income stream alongside Social Security, or maybe you need it for long-term care if you ever need that.
Rob West: But I would use an advisor for that, and I would use a Certified Kingdom Advisor. I'd be happy to connect you with a CKA personally, but I would have an advisor that could help you do the planning, get to know you, where God is leading you, somebody who understands the counsel of Scripture, but also has significant experience in financial planning and investment management. Stay on the line, we'll talk a bit more. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance here on American Family Radio. I'm Rob West. Well, we're taking your calls and questions. We did just get word earlier this morning that every gift to faithfi.com/preborn, every gift to Preborn between now and Monday is going to be doubled. And this is news we just got about an hour and a half ago. So essentially, we've been working toward a goal with Preborn to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds. Every $28 given funds one of them; we're looking for 1,500. We had a donor that called and said, "Whatever you get as of the end of 11:59 on Monday, August 31st, we're going to double it." So if you can get to 1,500 ultrasounds, we'll now have 3,000 free ultrasounds. Your $42,000 will become $84,000. That's amazing. But it's only going to be the number that comes in gets doubled. So if you'd like to be a part of it, every $28 will fund now two free ultrasounds. Just go to faithfi.com/preborn.
Let's head back to the phones. We do have room for a few more questions. If you've got something on your mind, call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Let's go out to West Virginia. Julie, how can I help you?
Julie: Hi, good morning. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it. So my husband and I have a trust, and we are wondering: Will our trust protect our house and our other property from being considered as like an available asset or money if one of us has to go into long-term care? Or would we need to transfer the home or property into someone else's name in order to protect it? And then kind of along with this, we've also heard that there could be a five-year lookback period. So like right now we're healthy, we're thankful for that, and we hope we don't have to use it, but we also want to be thinking ahead.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question, and at the end of the day, you'd really need to talk to an elder care estate planning attorney to talk you through the options, because that revocable trust is not going to provide any kind of protection. So essentially, because you created the trust and can revoke it—it's not irrevocable—you still control the property. Therefore, Medicaid treats the assets in a self-funded revocable trust as available resources when determining eligibility for long-term care Medicaid.
So there's really two separate issues here. If you're paying privately for long-term care, the nursing facility doesn't simply get to take the house, so to speak. They receive payment for the care provided, but because you control the assets in your trust, those assets could ultimately need to be used to pay your expenses. If you eventually need Medicaid to pay for long-term care, again, that doesn't shelter the assets from the financial eligibility rules. And you're right, they do have a five-year lookback on transfers for less than market value. So you just need to understand that is the case.
You know, there are protections for married couples. If one spouse enters a nursing facility and the other is at home, then the spousal impoverishment rules protect certain income and assets for the spouse who remains in the community. There's also restrictions on when Medicaid can place a lien on a home, including protections when a spouse continues to live there. So ultimately, you just need to understand that's the way it works, and I wouldn't be transferring the house or changing the trust solely to qualify for Medicaid without real professional guidance on that. So I think that really is your next step.
Julie: Okay, that's great. No, the main concern was if one person is left, standard house gets taken from them and then, you know, they don't have somewhere—everything's gone. But okay, no, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you so much. That's so clear. I really appreciate your clarity in explaining pretty much everything. So thank you very, very much.
Rob West: Well, I'm delighted to. Thanks for listening and call anytime if you have other questions. 800-525-7000 is the number to call if you have a financial question today. You can call right now, we'd love to hear from you. By the way, in the next segment Jerry Bowyer stops by. We'll get Jerry's update on the markets. We'll also check in on AFA's work in corporate engagement. That's in our next segment. Let's go to Maryland. Hi Linda, go ahead.
Linda: Good morning. How are you?
Rob West: I'm doing great. Thanks for your call.
Linda: Um, uh... I am uh... I am 71. I started collecting my Social Security at 62 early. And my husband's going to be 67 in October, and he's going to start—he'll start collecting his full Social Security. I've heard you talk about those spousal benefits and stuff. Would I qualify for that? Do they check on that automatically, or is that something we have to apply for?
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. So essentially, what you need to understand there is because you've already started collecting your Social Security and your husband plans to start his in October, you may become eligible for an additional spousal benefit once his benefits begin. You have to—he has to walk through his door before you unlock those spousal benefits. So when he begins that in October, that makes it possible.
And the key calculation is based on his full retirement age benefit, not necessarily the check he receives. So as a spouse, you can get up to 50% of his full retirement age benefit. And Social Security will first pay you your own retirement benefit, and then if the spousal amount is higher—that up to 50% amount that's available for spouses based on his—then they will add a spousal amount to bring your total up to the higher benefit.
So let's do an example. Let's say his full retirement age benefit is $3,000 a month. Half of that is $1,500. If your benefit on your own record is $1,100, you could qualify for an additional $400 a month in my example as a spousal benefit. Now, one complication is, since you started your own benefit at 62, your own benefit was permanently reduced for claiming early. You can't assume that you'll simply receive exactly 50% of his benefit now.
So what I would do is when he files for Social Security in October, I would tell Social Security—have him tell them—that his wife is already receiving retirement benefits and wants to be evaluated for spousal benefits on his record. You know, their current publication specifically says that when someone is already receiving retirement benefits and the spouse files later, they may become eligible and must file for the spouse's benefit when the spouse files. So I wouldn't rely on it automatically appearing in your check. I would reach out to them to do so.
Linda: Okay. Thank you very much. Can I do another quick question?
Rob West: Yes, ma'am.
Linda: My sister-in-law is 61, and her husband died last year. And since then, she's been having some state benefits like SNAP and Medicaid. Well, last week, an aunt gave her a large check, a tax-free gift she had on it, I guess part of her inheritance. And now she doesn't know what to do with it, and she's afraid she'll lose some of her benefits.
Rob West: Yeah. Yeah. And so you said that just happened recently?
Linda: Yes, just like last week.
Rob West: Okay, got it. Yeah, I mean, so that could, of course, affect her need-based eligibility. Because she's on Medicaid and SNAP, it depends on what type of Medicaid she has and what state she's in. For Medicaid, adults qualify under the Modified Adjusted Gross Income Medicaid, which generally uses income rather than assets. Other categories rely on—you know, particularly those connected to SSI or long-term care—can have different resource rules. For SNAP, a one-time lump sum is generally treated differently from recurring income. So I would say, you know, find out exactly what program she's in, and I would reach out to that office to report the gift and ask how it affects eligibility. But she may be pleasantly surprised on that. Thanks for your call. We'll be right back.
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Rob West: Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith & Finance. Well, it's Friday, it means Jerry Bowyer's here. We always look forward to Jerry's visit. And, you know, Jerry, you're an economist, right?
Jerry Bowyer: That's what they tell me.
Rob West: Okay, so I mean, you should be able to go to Jackson Hole and Davos, right? So like Switzerland, and, you know, they hang out at some really cool places.
Jerry Bowyer: Well, I haven't been to Davos, but I have been to Jackson Hole and actually spoke there. What I took from that experience is if anyone goes to Jackson Hole, the first thing you notice is that it's oxygen-deprived. It's very high up, and, you know, your ears clog and you get a little dizzy, especially if, like, since I was a speaker, you know, I had to do that a lot. And, you know, that helped me explain the quality of the decision-making process there in the past. It's just... David Letterman used to say, with just a little less oxygen than people really require, and then let's put them in charge of global finance. What could go wrong? So, by the way, we just... Susan and I just listened to the Kevin Warsh speech at Jackson Hole. We listened to the whole thing because, you know, we're romantic. So, you know, Friday's date day for us, so we listened to that.
Rob West: For some reason, Julie, I don't think is going to go for that, but I'll see how that plays.
Jerry Bowyer: The FOMC chair... You don't know until you try.
Rob West: I'm going to give it a shot. Date night.
Jerry Bowyer: Julie might. I think she'll do her best. Yes, exactly. So, I thought it was a really terrific speech. Now, I turned to Susan and I said, "Markets are falling right now." I didn't look, but they will, and gold will go down and the dollar will go up. And then I turned, you know, looked at the markets and they were falling, and dollar went up and gold went down because it's a hawkish speech. And it really expresses something that's, you know, shows the challenge of where the Fed is now, because basically it was almost an anti-Fed Fed speech. It was basically him saying, "Don't pay attention to the Fed so much. We're not supposed to manage the economy. We're not supposed to manage the markets."
Rob West: Yeah, he talked about this quieter Fed. I mean, is that the idea there?
Jerry Bowyer: Exactly. A quieter Fed, so no forward guidance. No, "This is what we think we're going to do, but we don't know." But also a Fed that isn't manipulating markets. And the reason he said that is because there's signal in the markets. So you and I know when we do these quarterly calls for KA, I say, "What is the market saying about the economy?" Well, he's saying is if, what he calls the hall of mirrors problem, if the Fed determines what markets say, and then the Fed looks at markets to say, "What are they saying?" Well, then it's just listening to itself, it's just looking into a mirror. They push down interest rates, and lower interest rates mean, "Oh, everything's fine." But wait, the Fed artificially pushed down interest rates. So he's trying to figure out a way for the Fed to stop pushing markets around so that it can listen to markets. But the problem is while he was saying that, markets said, "Oh, okay. Well, that means you're going to raise interest rates." And, and therefore, they reacted accordingly. So we're going to have... He wants to put the Fed back in a box where it is historically: focused on the value of the dollar, focused on fighting inflation. Even when he affirmed the dual mandate, it was really interesting. He said, "Well, we still have the dual mandate, but mainly that's because, you know, inflation's bad for the economy." So he's really saying, "Well, we have a dual mandate: fight inflation and also have a good economy. But a good economy is low inflation." So he's trying to get down to the single mandate without technically violating the law, which says you have to manage both things. And he's trying to get the Fed out of the business of being prophet and oracle, and into the business of focusing on the value of the dollar and fighting inflation. So I was excited when Kevin Warsh was nominated. I was excited when he was confirmed. I'm excited by this speech about what he's going to do. He was there in 2008 and I was on Larry Kudlow's show a lot and we would talk about some of these issues. And we would see Kevin Warsh a couple days later come out and say some of the same stuff we were saying. So that was kind of nice, that was kind of an ego boost. He was listening to the right people, or at least he was listening to us. But the Fed is still seen as the controller of markets and the controller of the economy. So even a speech that says, "We shouldn't control markets," controlled markets. So it's going to be tough. We turned the Fed from a guardian of the value of the dollar into something like a god on earth. And once we've done that, then it's hard to get it out of the god and prophet role and back just to the role of being a bank that if there's a general panic, they'll lend. Otherwise, we're just going to basically try to keep the value of the dollar in next year be the same as the value of the dollar this year.
Rob West: Can you put that genie back in the bottle, though?
Jerry Bowyer: I don't know, honestly I don't know. I mean, he tried to today, and even though I loved the speech, it failed if the job was to get the markets to stop listening to the Fed, because they responded. I mean, gold went down, dollar went up. I haven't even looked at interest rate futures, but I bet when I do after this call, I'm going to say that interest rate futures probably went up, and markets generally went down. They started off going up, but then they went down in general. So markets are basically still looking at this through the lens of, when the Fed chairman speaks, what does that tell us about the future of monetary policy? Even though he's saying to the markets, "Stop listening to us." So that's a tough spot, and I don't know if he can get out of it, but I'm glad someone's trying to.
Rob West: Yeah, yeah. It's going to be fascinating to watch, but it's exciting because this is something you've been talking about for a long, long time, Jerry, as long as I've known you, and the idea that we could be making moves in this direction is really in a direction toward more sound, biblical principles of economics, right?
Jerry Bowyer: Absolutely. And, you know, I don't know if he intended a little wink and nod out there, but towards the end of his speech, he talked about the Fed having an opportunity to redeem the time. So, a little bit of biblical language there. And he talked a lot about humility. So, you know, I like this Fed chairman. May God give him grace to accomplish what I think is what a biblical approach to economics would require. And I'm not saying you're not a good Christian if you disagree with me, I'm just telling you this is my take on a biblical approach to economics. Unjust weights and measures are an abomination to the Lord. Inflation is an evil. It's not just a technical mistake. It is an evil because it takes wealth from some people and gives it to others. I don't like redistribution downward as in socialism, and I certainly don't like redistribution upward, and that is generally what a micromanaging Fed has done. It puts money into markets so that people who are invested, those markets go up, and then as the money sifts out into the rest of the economy, prices for everybody else go up. So the people who are least able to afford those higher prices, people who aren't in the markets, are the ones who get hit with those higher prices. So Fed policy has been redistributing wealth upward to market participants, to Wall Street, and to the government because they monetize debt. Where does the money go first? When the Fed creates money and lends it to the federal government, where does it go first? Well, it goes to the federal government. That's powerful people. If for those who are scoring at home, that's called the Cantillon effect. You don't have to remember that. It's just that when inflation comes into the economy, it doesn't come in evenly. The easy money gets to powerful people first, then the money sifts out into the economy, and then the price rises affect the least powerful people after. And I think it's a just cause for him to try to fight that system, and may God grant him that and us.
Rob West: Yes. Amen. Jerry, is the 10-year at 4.6, 4.7, is that sustainable just given the debt levels we have as a country?
Jerry Bowyer: Probably not. I mean, it's artificially low because of Fed policy, right? They still own a lot in these various operations: QE, and Twist, and all these other things. So as they get out of bond markets, I think the natural interest rate is probably higher than that, especially given inflation problems, but also as default risks rise. So you know from the blackboard videos, to me, the interest rate is incredibly important. It tells us the truth about ourselves. A covenant-keeping people will tend to have lower interest rates because they're less likely to default. A government which recognizes sound money will tend to have lower interest rates because you don't have the inflation premium, you don't have to pay people more to compensate them for the theft of money. A saving people will tend to have lower interest rates because more money being lent means more available capital, and that tends to drive interest rates down. A borrowing, spending, covenant-breaking, inflationary people will tend to have higher interest rates. But John Maynard Keynes came along and said, "Well, we can't have that. So we want to keep everyone stimulated all the time and keep their animal spirits up. So let's give them artificially low interest rates so that we'll feel rich and go around and spend." And, you know, then it turns the mirror of interest rates into a skinny mirror. You know, I notice when I stay in hotels, I look and say, "Oh, this suit fits pretty well." And then I go see an honest mirror, it's like, "Oh wait, that suit doesn't fit as well as I thought." So Fed policy tells us a lie about ourselves, like we're a covenant-keeping people without a debasing government and without risk of default, and we're high savers. But we haven't earned those low interest rates, and so we lobotomize ourselves. And Warsh basically said that today, that market signals are muted when the Fed determines what those market signals are. He said hall of mirrors, I like that. It's like, yeah, but it's a hall of skinny mirrors, it's even worse. A mirror shows you what you are, a skinny mirror shows you what you wish you would be. And therefore, it really hides our errors. So anyway, I liked his response on interest rates, and I think that America has had historically low interest rates historically, right? Great Britain did. So when we were on a gold standard or a silver standard or some kind of absolute standard, and we had high savings rates and we had high growth rates, we earned our low interest rates, and all around the world, people wanted to put money into these Christian nations: the United States, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, because they were following biblical principles.
Rob West: Wow. Yeah, well said, Jerry. Well, we trust the Lord and we will continue to keep listeners updated here, but we appreciate your comments today.
Jerry Bowyer: Thank you. God bless.
Rob West: All right, that's Jerry Bowyer. He's our resident economist. We look forward to his time with us each Friday during this segment. Well, folks, that's going to do it for us today. Big thanks to my team, I certainly couldn't do this without the amazing work of Devin, Patty, Pat, Taylor, Jim, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible. Hey, don't forget, Monday is the last day of our campaign with Preborn, trying to fund 1,500 free ultrasounds, $28 a piece for moms considering abortion. Just got word a couple of hours ago, some generous donors are going to step in and double whatever we get by 11:59 PM on Monday, and so that means up to now 3,000 free ultrasounds. So if you'd like to make a gift, $28 funds not one, but two free ultrasounds. Just go to faithfi.com/preborn. That's faithfi.com/preborn. Have a wonderful weekend, come back and join us on Monday. We'll see you then. Bye-bye.
Announcer: The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family Association or American Family Radio.
When studying Scripture, we learn that God owns everything, gives us the ability to earn, and calls us to work with integrity because, ultimately, we serve Christ. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Howard Dayton talk about earning money God’s way. They explain how biblical wisdom can shape our work, our businesses, and our generosity. Then, it’s on to calls.
(00:00) Rob West and Howard Dayton discuss making money God’s way
(12:25) Caller Deena: Possible tax on social security
(21:51) Caller Kerri: How to invest life insurance proceeds from mother’s passing
(32:28) Caller Julie: Will a trust shield assets from seizure for long-term care
(35:42) Caller Linda: Eligibility for spousal social security benefits
(38:40) Caller Linda: Can a single large cash gift affect eligibility for Medicaid and SNAP
(42:15) Jerry Bowyer joins Rob West with analysis of the recent federal reserve signals on the economy
When studying Scripture, we learn that God owns everything, gives us the ability to earn, and calls us to work with integrity because, ultimately, we serve Christ. On this Faith & Finance on AFR, Rob West and Howard Dayton talk about earning money God’s way. They explain how biblical wisdom can shape our work, our businesses, and our generosity. Then, it’s on to calls.
(00:00) Rob West and Howard Dayton discuss making money God’s way
(12:25) Caller Deena: Possible tax on social security
(21:51) Caller Kerri: How to invest life insurance proceeds from mother’s passing
(32:28) Caller Julie: Will a trust shield assets from seizure for long-term care
(35:42) Caller Linda: Eligibility for spousal social security benefits
(38:40) Caller Linda: Can a single large cash gift affect eligibility for Medicaid and SNAP
(42:15) Jerry Bowyer joins Rob West with analysis of the recent federal reserve signals on the economy
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