Dr. Jessica Peck hosts the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families
Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there friends, and welcome to my favorite time of the day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. Listen, are you hanging on to this news cycle thinking, what in the world is going to go wrong today? I was so convicted yesterday by the show that we had with Nicole Zasowski, a licensed marriage and family therapist, encouraging us to dare to find joy. And we have some guests coming up over the next couple of weeks who are also giving that same message. It clearly is a message to me and is a message to all of us that we can find joy even in the midst of chaos. We can find joy in the midst of heartache, trouble, pain, trial. And there are a lot of trials to be had. And as we are at the end of the summer, I don't know about you, I'm a busy mom of four. I have older teenagers and college aged kids. And so by the, I start the summer with the best of intentions and then by the end of the summer, I don't know who's going to be eating potato chips on the couch at two o' clock in the morning or who's coming, who's going. I have lost all control and we start to get that feeling of I'm ready to go back to school. Whether that's homeschool, a private school, Christian school, charter school, public school, whatever that schooling situation is for you, you sometimes want some of that structure. And my friends, we are already seeing that. If you have been out in the store, you see that the store, the school supplies are out. Now I know that really irritates some of you who are not ready for summer to be up, but at least it's not, shall I say? I know, here I go. Christmas decorations. Those will be out soon, but we are seeing all of those school supplies out. I have always loved school supplies. I am the oldest, so I'm the rule F follower. I'm the one that has all of the sharpened pencils in order. Clearly with my, my school supplies all neatly organized. I am a prototypical, stereotypical oldest. I'm the oldest of five and so I love seeing all of those school supplies. But we are going to give a shout out to all of the teachers today. And what if we told you that you could become a world changing teacher in just five days? I know that sounds too good to be True. Right. Whether you're stepping into your first classroom, whether you're a seasoned pro needing some fresh inspiration, or whether you're a parent at home because parents are teachers, whether you like it or not. But shout out to all of the teachers because we have your back.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristen Leman O'Reilly have written a book about teachers
Today with our guest, I am so excited to tell you that we are joined by internationally known psychologist Dr. Kevin Leman Yes, that is the birth order guy, in case you're wondering. In his daughter, Kristin Leman O'Reilly, who is a powerhouse educator. She's a curriculum director at the award winning Leman Academy of Excellence. Their new book, be a Great Teacher by Friday, is packed with practical wisdom and real world tools to transform classrooms and the kids inside them. So parents, teachers, anyone who works with kids, anyone who's around kids. Don't miss this one. We are so glad to have you. Welcome, Kevin and Krissy So happy to have you here today.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Hey, good to be with you.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Thanks for having us.
Dr. Jessica Peck Yay. Well, this sounds just too good to be true. And I'm not even talking about being a, a great teacher by Friday. I'm talking about a father daughter partnership. This is pretty amazing. Who wants to tell the story of how this happened and tell us the truth? Do you get along all the time or do you manage conflict? What does this look like in a healthy partnership? Who wants to start?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Well, let me start with, Well, first of all, let me tell you a little story about why I wanted to do a book about teachers.
Dr. Jessica Peck Okay.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly I had a teacher who, when I was 17 years old, I was concerned, convinced that she was near death. She had some hair, and I probably thought she was near retirement age. Of course, the humor. Yeah, she was probably close to 40. But, I was not a great student. I graduated, barely, graduated fourth and bottom of my class. But in April of my senior year, this wonderful teacher, pulled me aside and said, Kevin with rather a stern voice, do you think you could ever use those skills you have for something positive in life? And that was the first time, quite frankly, a teacher ever said I had skills. I literally forced one teacher out of teaching. She left during the year. I was taking that tough academic math course called Consumers Mathematics at the time. you know, Susan went to the store with a dollar and bought four apples. Came home with 50 cents. How much were the apples? That was final exam stuff. I'd love to tell you I passed that course, but I didn't. Jessica.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Anyway, long story short, this dear woman tutored me at her home from April through June till I graduated. I would have never graduated from high school if it wasn't for this woman. So I have a love for teachers. So we talked about doing a book about teachers. I didn't have to look very far. I just had to look at my second born daughter, Krissy better known as Kristin, to be my helpmate in this project. And she, she really carried the yeoman's load on this. She's a wonderful teacher and she has a skill set that I haven't seen in a long time and people in the classroom. So it was a natural coming together as far as our personalities. She's a clone of her father. I mean she looks like me, you know, and she's just very gifted. So we're glad to be with you today. and yeah, five days. okay, I'll admit you could do it in two.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh my goodness, that's bold.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly You just have to read the book quickly.
Krissy says having her dad as her teacher sparked her passion for teaching
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, Krissy I'd love to hear your side of this. We already know a little secret about you as the second born. We know that you're more emotionally well adjusted than the oldest children who are more high strung and anxious. That would be coming from an oldest child right here. But what was it like having your dad as your teacher who he's admitted already his academic prowess here, but what was that like in that and that partnership? And how did you come to love teaching and to write about it?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Yeah, so what's great is, you know, he's been my teacher my whole life. Being an awesome dad and a father to myself and my four siblings. I've seen him teach in workshops and you know, from his work at the University of Arizona to teaching teachers to he's just had a very long career in helping other people. And so not only is that the dad I grew up with, but also the mentor that I grew up with and really encouraged me, me, in my educational journey as well. So writing this alongside him has been nothing but a joy and it's been wonderful to take his expertise, especially when it comes to the psychology side birth order, everything he knows and learns about how children learn and how parents parent to the best of their ability. And taking what I know about the school system and, and really combining those two together to make for a really successful experience for kids schools which has to start with the teacher in the classroom. So I've dedicated my entire career, to teaching and I started right out of college teaching second, grade. And I really love the lower elementary grades. And then I quickly found myself in administrative roles, and, teaching teachers has become now the passion of mine and just helping be a positive influence for teachers and giving them the tools that they need so that they can really reach that younger generation and. And raise them up in a way that, they're going to be difference makers, for your kids, for my kids, for our upcoming generation.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, I have such an appreciation for teachers, and, you know, I was a very timid student actually going through all of elementary school. I can relate to you a little bit, Kevin I was. I was an okay student, but I wasn't. I was by no means a star, a standout, or anything like that. In fact, I went to community college. Barely passed, because I was working three jobs and trying to put myself through school, and I just wanted to be invisible every single day. That was kind of my goal in community college. Because I think looking back, I thought, well, if someone saw me, they would see what I feared inside. That I don't really belong here. And I remember my chemistry teacher one day, his name was Mr. Jenkins. So, Mr. Jenkins, if you're still living and out there. Because I did go to school quite a while ago. I remember him pulling me aside after class one day and saying, hey, you know you're smart, right? And I remember looking at him and saying, no, I do not know that at all. And it was really just that moment that sparked transformation. But now that I look as a pediatric health professional, I see how many hours teachers spend with kids, the influence that they have, the potential that they have. But I also know that teachers are tired. I work frequently in school environments and a nursing context, and I see teachers are up against it. There are a lot of difficult things, and it doesn't matter where they're teaching. If they're teaching at home, they're teaching in any school environment. It is really hard because we just have a lot going on with Changing world for kids.
What's the most important thing that all teachers need to know
So let's start with what's the most important thing that all teachers need to know? Just starting out. Let's start by seeing them where they are. What would you say to them, why you wrote this book and what you want them to know?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Well, it's all about relationships, for sure. So you go ahead, Krissy
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly But I was just gonna say, that for the teacher that's maybe thinking about, school starting in just a few weeks or maybe a month, depending on where you live in the country, never underestimate. Just listening to your story, Jessica, and to my Dad's story. It's a teacher that says something or does something. And most of the time the influence, the, the, the way that we make a difference in students lives is not by the awesome lesson we've prepared, but it's through the relationships that we have in encouraging and believing in our students and not being afraid. We say in the book that teaching is a contact sport, which is why Covid was so detrimental to students because it was behind a screen and there was no contact. and so I've really learned to believe wholeheartedly that teaching is a contact sport. You have to be willing to dive in and get a little down and dirty and get messy at times and get to know these students for who they are. And if you haven't realized this, as a teacher, every student that walks in your door is completely, uniquely different. And so the job of the great teacher is to get to know each one of his or her students personally and investing and showing an interest in what they're interested in. Because then the teaching, the lessons, I don't care if you're teaching, you know, geometry or an ELA lesson, math. That comes so much easier when those students know this teacher knows me personally.
Dr. Jessica Peck Kevin what do you have to add to that?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Well, I want to clarify one thing before we move forward. Did you pass chemistry?
Dr. Jessica Peck You know what? Here's the honest truth. That was the, that was the first A I made in that program. I not only passed it, I made an A. And I never made anything less than an A going forward from that through, throughout all of my graduate studies. It was extremely transformational.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Just to set the record straight, I flunked it. Thanks for asking.
Dr. Jessica Peck I didn't ask, I didn't ask, but I'll take it.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly I flunked. Really, I flunked. I, I wrote a book called Planet, Middle School. and if anybody's been around a middle school or, you know, I maybe I named that book Planet Middle School. They're a little different. But I put my actual report card in the book. And back in those days it was a handwritten, you know, report ah card. I showed them where at midterm I flunked every subject, everyone. So I had a sister above me who was perfect and still is to this day. And she's the firstborn. I mean, she puts newspaper to the cuckoo clock. You just never know. And I had a brother who was near perfect and then there was me. So when Krissy talks about understanding all of these kids, you don't need a PhD in psychology to figure out that. Well, the firstborn daughter, that would be my sister. She was a straight A, did everything right, a rule follower and then some. and then my brother, and he was, like I say, almost straight A and played football, voted best looking in his class and all those stupid things they did years ago. And then there was me. So again, you don't have to be a psychologist to figure out I was the attention getter, the class clown. When I do network TV in New York, whether it's Fox and Friends or Good Morning America or any of them, my litmus test, Jessica, is always do I make the cameraman, the lighting guy, the audio guy, the people in the background, do they laugh? If they laugh, I tell myself I'm connected.
Dr. Jessica Peck You've been successful. Well, we are already at our first break and you have already had a great measure of success because you've made me laugh. You've made my producer really laugh. I see her over here shaking her shoulders, laughing so hard. We have so much more to talk about being a great teacher by Friday. Don't go away. We'll be right back after this break. Because of listeners like you, PreBorn helped to rescue over 67,000 babies. Your $28 to sponsor one ultrasound doubled a baby's chance at life. Your tax- deductible gift saves lives. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com/AFR. this June 24th marks three years since Roe vs Wade was overturned.
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Somebody Prayed by Crowder Every night there by your bed, you fold your hands and bow your head throwing out another prayer in faith. When you're wondering if he's hearing you look at me I'm living proof I'm only right where I am today. Because somebody prayed so I hit my knees Cause I seen all heaven move. These hands have no power there ain't an hour he don't come through That's why when mountains move I, say looks like somebody prayed
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends. That song is Somebody Prayed by Crowder. And I hope today that somebody is praying for all of the teachers who are about to go back to school. I hope somebody's praying for all the mamas who are holding on till they can go back to school. We are talking all things teacher today. Get ready to take some notes in this class that we're going to have this afternoon and get ready to laugh a little. I've already laughed a lot, so that measure of Success is high. Dr. Leman thank you so much for that. Today we've got a really big treat for you, a dynamic father daughter duo here in the studio in our virtual studio, Dr. Kevin Leman the New York Times best selling psychologist that you know and love from over 70 books. Yes, we're talking about the birth order guy and his daughter, Kristin Leman O'Reilly, who is an educational leader helping to reshape how we think about classrooms. And they have teamed up for a new book called Be a Great Teacher by Friday. Now, if you're counting, this is Tuesday when we're airing this show. That's four days from now. They said five days. It's a five day crash court. But Dr. Leman has already promised you could do it in two if you're a fast reader. So whenever you have school coming up, I know you want to be the kind of teacher that students never forget. And together, this father daughter duo is bringing insight and heart and humor to make you a lasting impact in and out of the of the classroom. So, Kevin and Krissy welcome back. Thank you so much for that. And behind the scenes, Kevin you were telling me a story. I want to hear the end of that. We'll, we'll put that on hold for just a minute. But I want to go to birth order, because you are the birth order guy. You can go to birthorderguy.com and find out more about that. But I'll tell you, for me, is the oldest of five and now raising four kids myself, Having this idea of birth order was so transformative for me. I felt seen as a person, I felt seen as a mom. I have the oldest child who is the stereotypical rule follower. As soon as she got home from college, the first thing that she did was clean out my pantry, clean out my linen closet, you know, start to get me organized. And then I've got the proverbial baby of the family who's putting on a production of Ben Hur, like, complete with an office chair turned into a chariot. And I love that they have those gifts. And so I would love to hear from you, Kevin We could start with you talking about, what is birth order and why is this important for teachers to know?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Well, birth order, to define it as that, fluid, dynamic relationship that exists between parent and child in siblings with one another. Now we'll pick on you, Jessica, since you volunteered your birth order, sure. You heard words. I don't care what he did. I don't care what she did. You were the oldest. I expect more of you, young woman. And so when someone as a kid, my guess is your little heels clicked together and your whole body got tight and, you know, you want to avoid trouble, you follow the rules. now you take Kevin Leman I was a rule breaker. I tell the story of taking my family, the entire family, there were nine of us at the time, to Disney World. and my son had graduated early in the morning from college. And he said, dad, can we go up to Disney? And I said, sure, let's go. We had a big 15 passenger van, if I remember right, and we got to Disney. And, if you've been there, there's these great big, huge signs above that says Island Hopper tickets or something. But back in those days, this was a long time ago, tickets, were 180 bucks a pop. Well, I know who's paying for it. I am. There's nine people. So I did the simple math, and I won't tell you the. It took 20 minutes. I planned on 10. But literally, Jessica, I talked my way into Disney World for nine free tickets.
Dr. Jessica Peck You did not.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly I'm telling you, my firstborn wife would never have asked. She would not have the courage to go up. they said, but it all started with relationships. And that's the first thing I said to you. On the show is it's all about relationships. And what I did, I surprised this guy behind a little window and I said, you're a firstborn son, aren't you, Daniel? He looked at me and he said, have we met? I said, no, but you are a firstborn son, aren't you? Well, yes. And then I described himself and he about fell over. And anyway, I always tell my kids and I tell teachers every, always make a friend. And Krissy made the statement earlier that's so profound. And that is a teacher. You have to know every one of those kids and they're different when those kids come in the classroom. In kindergarten, I love the pick on the kindergarten teacher because there's a kid that walks in the first day of school and there's something different about this kid. He's got an attache case in his hand. And you say, what's in the attache case? Your lunch? And he says, no, a book. And he pulls out James Michener's Hawaii. You know, I'm going to take on the plank of life. And suggests Jessica, that kid's going to do really well in school. And two minutes later, another kid comes in and he says, is this the, the kindergarten? And little Michael Adams III with three little ones after his name says, I believe he's inquiring as to whether he's not in the right classroom or not. Well, that kid is probably going to have a little tougher time. And so, these kids come to us as they are from their families. And the miracle of people like Kristin Leman O'Reilly is she was able to drop to her knees, see a little ankle, bite her eyeball to eyeball, and miraculously make all those kids in that classroom feel special. And so teaching is a profession, but it's got its art form as well. And, to be able to communicate and get behind those kids eyes.
Dr. Leman: Getting to know kids individually and middle children is different
And you said, let's start with birth order. Firstborn's our rule followers. But to be practical for all you teachers, wouldn't it be smart to sort of get a birth order diagram of where your kids are in the family? Wouldn't it be a bad idea to put four babies of the family together in the back of the classroom?
Dr. Jessica Peck That would be trouble.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly You don't need a PhD for that one, folks. So, yeah, getting to know kids individually and middle children, you know what they do life different. I call them the peanut butter and jelly, the sandwich. They're great negotiators. They're compromisers. they never had mom and dad of themselves, us babies of the family. If I ask you to name a comedian, in all probability you'd be naming a youngest child in the family. There's very few firstborn comedians to name a few, old ones. Johnny Carson was a middle and Letterman was a middle, and Nate Bargetzky, who's very much in vogue today, is a firstborn. so there's some exceptions. But most of your comedians are babies of the family for a reason. Because we couldn't compete with those little rule followers who got. And did you hear it was her first A, and then it was a bunch of string of A's after that. Did you hear what Jessica said earlier, folks? The girl's a scholar. My mother prayed for a C on my report card in high school. Prayed for a C, Lord, just one C to give me hope that this kid might do something someday. And I was thrown out of school by a dean of students. And 10 years later I was dean of students at the University of Arizona. And God had something to do with that one because I became a Christian. That period of time in my life.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is amazing. And you know, I'm thinking about my little brother. And one when he went to school, I was a rule follower. I may not have been the star student, right starting out, but I definitely was a rule follower. And I remember my brother getting in trouble one day because he had these little Hot Wheel cars and he was crashing them together, you know, during class and the teacher took away his Hot Wheel cars. Well then the next thing you know, he's got two pencils that he is then warring with each other and the teacher takes away those pencils and then he's making his fingers crash together and looks at her and says, you can't take these away. And I just see the difference in that. But you're so brilliant, Dr. Leman I can see why you're a New York Times bestseller. This is so revolutionary in thinking about it. Yeah, you're right. It doesn't take a PhD to think, let's not put the babies together in the, the back of the classroom because that's going to be a party that's going to be difficult to control.
How do you see birth order instructing the way that you teach teachers
And Krissy you've shared, you know, you're a second born. How do you see birth order instructing the way that you teach teachers? Now what are some practical ways that they could make, make good with birth order in their class?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly I think as a teacher looking at his or her class, if you can understand the birth order of your student, you you know, we've. If you've taught long enough, you've had the. The kid that makes a mistake. Maybe you're doing an art project, and all of a sudden you see him or her, tearing up the piece of paper. They made a mistake, they insist on starting over. that tells you a little bit. You get a glimpse into who those kids are. You know, the teacher that says, oh, we have to color within the lines, and we all have to do it like this. There's some kids that will thrive in that and love to just be told what to do. There's others. When teachers make those kind of statement, kids will automatically rebel against that. so understanding how kids work and how they think. What happens if a firstborn forgets their homework? What happens if a baby forgets their homework? And how does the teacher respond to those? it could be the exact same, you know, forgetting the homework. But how you respond to a firstborn is going to be different than how you respond to the baby of the family. The baby of the family could be very laissez faire and not really care too much and know that, you know, can come tomorrow or mom will drop it off later where the firstborn might be in tears and might be very upset and have a hard time moving on until that issue is resolved. And so everything we do as teachers in the classroom, if you can do a quick study in be a great teacher by Friday on the birth order section, you will do yourself a huge favor as you figure out how kids respond differently to the situations in the classroom, and that involves their friends that they make what they choose on the playground, why their little snack has to be cut a certain way or lined up a certain way, or where their backpack has to go, what their locker looks like and things falling out of their lockers, or is it completely, meticulous and organized. All of these little things give the teacher clue into how that student functions best.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, what's funny is as you're talking, I'm thinking of, you know, my experience in school. We've talked about the oldest and the youngest. We haven't talked about the middles because the middles are always the forgotten child. Children, which. My children say that too. Like they just kind of did their thing and. And they were really easygoing. But I remember when my youngest was probably in about first grade, I actually started getting charges for him for his lunch at school, and I had sent his lunch every morning. So I thought, this clearly must be a mistake. And I called and they Said, no, he's picking up a lunch. He's buying a lunch every day. And so I called the teacher and she said, oh, don't worry about it. I know you're so busy and you're working nights and you don't have time to make his lunch, and you forget a lot. That's okay. We can, we can charge for that. And I went to my youngest and I said, did you tell your teacher that I was sleeping and couldn't make your lunch? And he said, mom, you don't know the power of a cafeteria corn dog. That thing is temptation right there. And I look at it, and you're right. They're so different. And teachers are managing all kinds of behavioral presentations just like you were so beautifully describing.
The best way is when the school and the home partner together
Krissy what is the best way that you think to prompt a change in a student's behavior, taking this individual approach into account?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Yeah, honestly, the best way is when the school and the home partner together. So anytime you really need to see a change that is significant, in that student's life, you have to get the stakeholders in that kiddo's life around the table and have a game plan. And when the student sees that the school and the parents are working shoulder to shoulder and there's no wiggle room, you know, oftentimes today kids can go home and say, you know, my teacher yelled, or my teacher was so mean, or my teacher took away my reset. and that's a very small glimpse of perhaps the real story. So communication and sitting down, with the parents or stakeholders. I've had many parent conferences with grandmas and grandpas, for example, because they're the primary caretakers. They drop Shawn off at school, they pick Sean up at school. and so those are the. Are the people that I need around the table as well. So there's a whole part in our be a great teacher by Friday that talks about purposefully partnering with parents and doing it in a really positive and purposeful. It's all the P's you can imagine, in professional way. But that is truly the key. I've seen kids change behaviors that I thought, oh, man, this is just going to be an uphill battle all year long to truly making a plan with kids. So I'll give you a quick example. I remember a kindergartner that I had who was really struggling, and wasn't academ. It was on that social. It was choices that he was making. And I called the parents and I said, okay, here's what I'm seeing. At home or at school? What are you seeing at home? And they shared. Gosh, we're seeing a lot of the same things. Like, I'm not sure what this is all about. And so I said, okay, let's work together on this. I'd like you, when, when Owen comes home tonight, I'd like you to ask Owen, you know, if you were to turn in your homework Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, what would you choose as a treat, that we could do as a family on Friday. And he said, I'll never forget. I just want my mom to take me to the park. Oh, I just want my time with my mom at the park. Kids aren't, you know, we always think that they're going to ask for a round trip tip, you know, trip to Disney World or, Universal Studios or something big that could be out of our price range. The reality is they choose something that's meaningful to them and usually based in the family. So what I did, I just printed out a little tiny picture of the park, you know, a clip art of park of a park. And I put it on his desk and it was his little visual reminder. And if he was needing a little redirection, I would just walk by, point to the picture. And of course by Friday, he was spending that time with his mom, at the park because we really partner together, the school and the home. Partnering together produces great positive change.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is so encouraging. And listen, there are so many more tips. Be a great teacher by Friday. Don't you want that? I think every teacher wants that. And as we're starting school, this is a way for you to have five winning plays to spark world changing potential. If you know a teacher, this would be a great back to school gift. Or if you're a teacher, put this on your Amazon wish list. I know I'm seeing all of those classroom wish lists there. This would be a great addition for that. Or if you're not a teacher, you can have a new kid by Friday if you want to. There are so many books and resources and we will be right back with more from this dynamic duo. And when we come back, I'm going to ask them about vitamins E and N. And maybe you haven't heard that, but you will when we come back.
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Your Way's Better by Forrest Frank I search the world to my just to find out your ways better oh Your way's better oh your way's better oh Lord, your way's better Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back friends. That is your way's Better by Forrest Frank if you have young kids in the house, you probably know there's a little dance that goes along with that. It's hard not to do the little hand motions that go making a heart with your hands. But we are talking about ways to put kids minds and hearts in motion in the classroom. And if you think you can't change the game in your classroom by Friday, I want you to think again because today we are talking with psychologist and international speaker Dr. Kevin Leman aka the Birth Order Guy, and his brilliant daughter Kristin Leman O'Reilly, who's a curriculum expert shaping young minds across the country. And their new book, Be a Great Teacher by Friday no less, offers five powerful plays to reignite your teaching, motivate students and build lifelong connections with families. Whether you teach kindergarten, middle school, high school, college or your own kids at home, this conversation is going to give you tools that you can use before the bell rings tomorrow. And I told you before the break we were going to talk. I'm a nurse. I care about your health and I have introduced to you before vitamin G, what I call vitamin G and that is gratitude. And Kevin Dr. Leman you are going to introduce to us vitamin E and why kids need it.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Yeah, and vitamin E and that example about the grades coming home. A mom simply says, wow, five A's and a B. Congratulations honey. It looks like all that hard work you put in really paid off. Fist bump and a hug and you just saved yourself $20. But the takeaway for that kid is mom recognized the hard work that I did. So encouragement focuses on the action, on the act the kid did. Praise is self centered right to the kid and he tells himself, okay mom appreciates me because I got all A's. Well, what if I got season D? So it's, it's a qualified kind of a love. And I always say, you know, praise God, all others pay cash. And, God's worthy of our praise and people aren't. So anyway, I said that on Good Morning America one morning and they looked at me like I was a crazy man. But, a lot of things I say sounds a little crazy, but when you put it to the test, guess what? It works. And that's why people love the birth order. I was on Fox and Friends, just several weeks ago and I had it on the radio as I drove into the studio and they were talking about birth order before I came up on. The three hosts loved it, and then they were talking about it after I left and they talked about it the next morning. So people love the concept of birth order that the first two kids, in a family are night and day different. And we all do things. And like Krissy so brilliantly said, and she is brilliant, you have to get behind that kid's eyes and see how he sees life. He's not going to mesh to your world, okay? You have to mesh to his world. You have to get behind his eyes to understand why he thinks the way he does. And so you change behavior by establishing what I call equality with that kid. And it's through respect and communication. As Krissy so nicely, said, you know, you purposely, partner with the parents. A lot of P's in there, but boy, that's key to changing behavior in kids. So I'm so grateful for Eleanor Wilson, that old gray haired school teacher who I thought was at desk doorstop for, turning my life around. There were three women in my life, my, my mother and Ms. Wilson and my lovely wife, who really were just instrumental in not only am I turning my life over to God, but also just in a practical sense of, realizing that I could do things that I never thought I, I could do. I never wanted to, to be a speaker. I never wanted to write a book. I remember people saying, you ought to write a book when I was teaching at the university. I said, you got to be kidding. I'm never going to write a book. Well, that was 72 books ago, so.
Dr. Jessica Peck Exactly. Well, and, and you said that's such a great distinction between praise and encouragement and I appreciate you. We were talking about this during the break about how you can save yourself 20 bucks and just give them some well placed encouragement and so that's vitamin E. Is encouragement really encouraging them specifically in what they did. And I know, I see this, from even a health standpoint, from a psychology standpoint, if you tell a kid, hey, good job, you did a great job on that test, but if you really praise and will not praise, because we just heard about that from Dr. Leman but encourage their specific character traits, saying, you showed perseverance in that you showed character, you really showed determination. You did not give up. Those things are more powerful. Krissy what do you have to vitamin E? And can you introduce us to vitamin an N? Sure.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly so, you know, kids need encouragement. They're bombarded with all sorts of things today in schools. Negative. you know, they spend more time on their phones than they do interacting with people. And they're just fed a constant, source of. I'm sure they compare themselves with things that they see. So that school classroom really needs to be a place where they are encouraged. They feel connected, they feel a sense of belonging. and a lot of our schools, you know, really do the classroom functions like a small little family. And in all of our families, there's times where you have to say no. And that's the vitamin N and vitamin N and vitamin E have to go hand in hand because there's times that kids need a no. you have to have high expectations, and then you have to hold kids accountable. So if the expectation is, you know, there's homework tonight and your expectation is to bring it back tomorrow, or, you know, maybe you're going to sit out at recess and finish that, then, then that's the vitamin N where it comes in and says, you know, not today, you'll have recess tomorrow as soon as you get that homework done. vitamin N is also needed. when we talk about safety, and I, I know you understand this, especially with your nursing background, that there's times, you know, we don't share food at school, and there's a reason why, because I might have an allergy, that I don't know what's in your lunch and kids, standing on a table or a chair or. There's times where no just creates good, healthy boundaries for kids to keep them safe, to keep them healthy. and so sometimes teachers are afraid to say no because they don't want the backlash from the parents. and so we have to be encouraging by nature, but then we also have to be willing to say no when, when a no is needed and making sure our yes is yes, our no is no. So kids know where we stand, kids don't tend to misbehave in the classroom, where they know what the expectations are and what the consequences are when we fall out of those boundaries.
Dr. Jessica Peck You're so right. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Dr. Leman go ahead.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly let me point out that all kids are attention getters. Okay? All kids start off as attention getters. The question is, are they getting attention to positively or negatively? And as kids go from simple, attention getting, and then it turns the negative attention, that kid's mantra is saying, I only count in life when I'm noticed. Okay? How healthy is that? And then as a kid gets more discouraged, they move down to the power level. So I'm talking about power levels of m. Misbehavior behavior. The first one's attention, and then they migrate to power. This is the kid who, if Krissy was in the classroom, she'd say, michael, have a seat in your. Behind your desk. And Michael might slowly go there, give her teacher a glare, cross his arms like this across his chest and give. You think I like. Okay, But I want you to know I'm not happy about it. Well, there's a powerful charge child. And so if a teacher, is not in healthy authority in the classroom, if the parent is not in healthy authority in their home with kids, the kids will become powerful. Now, their mantra is, I only count life when I dominate, when I win, when I control everybody. Stop for a moment and ask yourself, if that's a little boy, what kind of a husband and father is he going to be someday? A bad one. I can answer that. And I'm not that smart. But then there's another level of misbehavior, and that's where a kid's been hurt by life. And Chris would tell you that there's a lot of kids come into our, classrooms who come from homes that are far from ideal. They come from very rough environments, and they've been hurt by life. And so their mantra is, okay, I've been hurt by life, therefore I have a right to strike out at other people. Now, let me tell you something. Our state prisons across the US Are filled with kids at that level at the revenge principle. And that's why they live a life where they struck out at other people because they felt like life had handed them, more than a few low blows. So it's not rocket science. And getting behind that kid's eyes and seeing how they see life is fundamental. If you want to change behavior patterns.
Dr. Jessica Peck In kids, that's really thought provoking. Because what I say is when kids are looking for attention, we say that a lot, lot as adults. Like that kid just wants attention or other kids say it about them. Really what I find is that they're seeking connection. That's what they're looking for. And you given some great tips on creating a respectful and actively engaged classroom. Giving them encouragement, but also giving them boundaries. And this is something I'm actually going to talk about on my show here on Friday. So parents pay attention because I'm going to talk a lot about authority in the home and how I'm seeing authority dynamics shifting because we have this internal interesting dynamic where we have a generation of kids who are very digitally fluent, they know how to use technology and they feel like they know more than their parents for the first time. I mean when we were growing up we saw our teachers as, as you said, Dr. Leman Old. And so they've been here forever so they have to know all of these things and we had respect for them. But that's changing because we think, oh, you don't know, that's an old way of doing things. And I think empowering them by saying no in a healthy way is a really, really important thing. Krissy what do you see as the top issue facing new teachers?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Usually the number one issue I see is how to manage a classroom and just their willingness to be the healthy authority in that classroom and having a clear game plan. And so teachers, over the summer, you know, they would be so wise to pick up a copy of Be a Great Teacher by Friday. There's there's a guide within the book that's just going to help you make a game plan for how are you going to schedule that first week of school? What's that going to look like? And how are you going to connect with the home? I think you're completely right about those attention getters really seeking the connection. That's what they're really thriving for. And so that's the biggest thing I see for new teachers especially is just they allow, whether you have 15 or 27 kids in that classroom room, sometimes those kids are in charge instead of the teacher. And that makes for a really difficult situation. And it's much harder to hit the restart button and start a new school year. So you really have to come in knowing what your game plan is and also being wise enough to know if something's not working along the way. You got to pivot a little bit. There's people in your building that been doing this a long time and have great skills. And so the smart teacher is one that's willing to reach out. Maybe you see another teacher whose kids are walking down the hallway beautifully and you don't know how they did that. Well, the smart teacher goes after school and says, okay, I couldn't help but notice your class walks the hallways or enters the cafeteria wonderfully. What's your secret? What's your trick? So that the teacher that's a lifelong learner, that's curious, that's willing to ask questions, that's the smart teacher.
Dr. Jessica Peck Then that requires vulnerability because it's hard to go and say, but otherwise, what, what is your alternative? Just sit there and continue to struggle with that thing? I agree. It is so important to be a lifelong learner. And Kevin you were talking during the break about the importance of making a first impression. And there are a lot of teachers out there who are praying for their class that they're going to encounter this year. They're preparing for it. They're already starting to envision how they're going to set things up and what their curriculum will be. What advice do you have to that to for them about making that first impression? And as Krissy was talking about setting things off on the right tone and.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly The right foot, well, again, you only get one chance to make that first impression. So every teacher has a way of getting the kids attention, whether it's a snap of a finger or they have all kinds of ingenious ways of doing that. But you know yourself as a parent, and this goes for teachers, what teachers have to understand is the kids, the students. We call them scholars at my school. School, they actually want to please you. And as a mother of four, I'm sure you realize your kids really want to please you. Well, let them please you. I tell parents all the time, 11 and 12 year old, a great job for them around the house is paying the bills online. What a great practical way of showing a 12 year old how much a mortgage payment is or how much rent is or a car payment. I call it reality, distance, discipline. And so as you bring up these kids, you have positive expectations for them, but you're giving them experience at handling life. You don't snow plow the roads of life for them. You don't make excuses for them. If you do, you know, excuses make the week weaker. So you're good at holding kids, accountable, but it's important for kids to feel like they have a piece of the action with your 16 year old. I'd love to interview a 16 year old and my first question would be, hey, hey, is this a home or a hotel that you live in? At Dr. Peck's home?
Dr. Jessica Peck I have a 16 year old in my house. I'm feeling like I want to go ask that question now.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Yeah, well, most parents, they provide a hotel for kids where they do everything for them and the kids do little. No, it's a home. Everybody pitches in, everybody gives back and forth environment. And so Krissy would tell you that the the great teachers that she has helped mentor through the years are the ones that aren't always doing the talking. She's got the kids in small group.
Dr. Jessica Peck I hate to cut you off, Dr. Leman because there's so much wisdom for you to have. There's so much more that we didn't get to. So if you want more, get a copy of Be a great Teacher by Friday. Five winning plays to spark world changing potential or get have a new kid by Friday or one of the other 70 books that he has written. Thank you so much Kevin and Krissy And wherever you are, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace. I'll see you here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Dr. Jessica Peck hosts the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families
Hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing Hope for Healthy Families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peck.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, hey there friends, and welcome to my favorite time of the day, getting to spend time with you, prescribing Hope for Healthy Families. Listen, are you hanging on to this news cycle thinking, what in the world is going to go wrong today? I was so convicted yesterday by the show that we had with Nicole Zasowski, a licensed marriage and family therapist, encouraging us to dare to find joy. And we have some guests coming up over the next couple of weeks who are also giving that same message. It clearly is a message to me and is a message to all of us that we can find joy even in the midst of chaos. We can find joy in the midst of heartache, trouble, pain, trial. And there are a lot of trials to be had. And as we are at the end of the summer, I don't know about you, I'm a busy mom of four. I have older teenagers and college aged kids. And so by the, I start the summer with the best of intentions and then by the end of the summer, I don't know who's going to be eating potato chips on the couch at two o' clock in the morning or who's coming, who's going. I have lost all control and we start to get that feeling of I'm ready to go back to school. Whether that's homeschool, a private school, Christian school, charter school, public school, whatever that schooling situation is for you, you sometimes want some of that structure. And my friends, we are already seeing that. If you have been out in the store, you see that the store, the school supplies are out. Now I know that really irritates some of you who are not ready for summer to be up, but at least it's not, shall I say? I know, here I go. Christmas decorations. Those will be out soon, but we are seeing all of those school supplies out. I have always loved school supplies. I am the oldest, so I'm the rule F follower. I'm the one that has all of the sharpened pencils in order. Clearly with my, my school supplies all neatly organized. I am a prototypical, stereotypical oldest. I'm the oldest of five and so I love seeing all of those school supplies. But we are going to give a shout out to all of the teachers today. And what if we told you that you could become a world changing teacher in just five days? I know that sounds too good to be True. Right. Whether you're stepping into your first classroom, whether you're a seasoned pro needing some fresh inspiration, or whether you're a parent at home because parents are teachers, whether you like it or not. But shout out to all of the teachers because we have your back.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristen Leman O'Reilly have written a book about teachers
Today with our guest, I am so excited to tell you that we are joined by internationally known psychologist Dr. Kevin Leman Yes, that is the birth order guy, in case you're wondering. In his daughter, Kristin Leman O'Reilly, who is a powerhouse educator. She's a curriculum director at the award winning Leman Academy of Excellence. Their new book, be a Great Teacher by Friday, is packed with practical wisdom and real world tools to transform classrooms and the kids inside them. So parents, teachers, anyone who works with kids, anyone who's around kids. Don't miss this one. We are so glad to have you. Welcome, Kevin and Krissy So happy to have you here today.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Hey, good to be with you.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Thanks for having us.
Dr. Jessica Peck Yay. Well, this sounds just too good to be true. And I'm not even talking about being a, a great teacher by Friday. I'm talking about a father daughter partnership. This is pretty amazing. Who wants to tell the story of how this happened and tell us the truth? Do you get along all the time or do you manage conflict? What does this look like in a healthy partnership? Who wants to start?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Well, let me start with, Well, first of all, let me tell you a little story about why I wanted to do a book about teachers.
Dr. Jessica Peck Okay.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly I had a teacher who, when I was 17 years old, I was concerned, convinced that she was near death. She had some hair, and I probably thought she was near retirement age. Of course, the humor. Yeah, she was probably close to 40. But, I was not a great student. I graduated, barely, graduated fourth and bottom of my class. But in April of my senior year, this wonderful teacher, pulled me aside and said, Kevin with rather a stern voice, do you think you could ever use those skills you have for something positive in life? And that was the first time, quite frankly, a teacher ever said I had skills. I literally forced one teacher out of teaching. She left during the year. I was taking that tough academic math course called Consumers Mathematics at the time. you know, Susan went to the store with a dollar and bought four apples. Came home with 50 cents. How much were the apples? That was final exam stuff. I'd love to tell you I passed that course, but I didn't. Jessica.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Anyway, long story short, this dear woman tutored me at her home from April through June till I graduated. I would have never graduated from high school if it wasn't for this woman. So I have a love for teachers. So we talked about doing a book about teachers. I didn't have to look very far. I just had to look at my second born daughter, Krissy better known as Kristin, to be my helpmate in this project. And she, she really carried the yeoman's load on this. She's a wonderful teacher and she has a skill set that I haven't seen in a long time and people in the classroom. So it was a natural coming together as far as our personalities. She's a clone of her father. I mean she looks like me, you know, and she's just very gifted. So we're glad to be with you today. and yeah, five days. okay, I'll admit you could do it in two.
Dr. Jessica Peck Oh my goodness, that's bold.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly You just have to read the book quickly.
Krissy says having her dad as her teacher sparked her passion for teaching
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, Krissy I'd love to hear your side of this. We already know a little secret about you as the second born. We know that you're more emotionally well adjusted than the oldest children who are more high strung and anxious. That would be coming from an oldest child right here. But what was it like having your dad as your teacher who he's admitted already his academic prowess here, but what was that like in that and that partnership? And how did you come to love teaching and to write about it?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Yeah, so what's great is, you know, he's been my teacher my whole life. Being an awesome dad and a father to myself and my four siblings. I've seen him teach in workshops and you know, from his work at the University of Arizona to teaching teachers to he's just had a very long career in helping other people. And so not only is that the dad I grew up with, but also the mentor that I grew up with and really encouraged me, me, in my educational journey as well. So writing this alongside him has been nothing but a joy and it's been wonderful to take his expertise, especially when it comes to the psychology side birth order, everything he knows and learns about how children learn and how parents parent to the best of their ability. And taking what I know about the school system and, and really combining those two together to make for a really successful experience for kids schools which has to start with the teacher in the classroom. So I've dedicated my entire career, to teaching and I started right out of college teaching second, grade. And I really love the lower elementary grades. And then I quickly found myself in administrative roles, and, teaching teachers has become now the passion of mine and just helping be a positive influence for teachers and giving them the tools that they need so that they can really reach that younger generation and. And raise them up in a way that, they're going to be difference makers, for your kids, for my kids, for our upcoming generation.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, I have such an appreciation for teachers, and, you know, I was a very timid student actually going through all of elementary school. I can relate to you a little bit, Kevin I was. I was an okay student, but I wasn't. I was by no means a star, a standout, or anything like that. In fact, I went to community college. Barely passed, because I was working three jobs and trying to put myself through school, and I just wanted to be invisible every single day. That was kind of my goal in community college. Because I think looking back, I thought, well, if someone saw me, they would see what I feared inside. That I don't really belong here. And I remember my chemistry teacher one day, his name was Mr. Jenkins. So, Mr. Jenkins, if you're still living and out there. Because I did go to school quite a while ago. I remember him pulling me aside after class one day and saying, hey, you know you're smart, right? And I remember looking at him and saying, no, I do not know that at all. And it was really just that moment that sparked transformation. But now that I look as a pediatric health professional, I see how many hours teachers spend with kids, the influence that they have, the potential that they have. But I also know that teachers are tired. I work frequently in school environments and a nursing context, and I see teachers are up against it. There are a lot of difficult things, and it doesn't matter where they're teaching. If they're teaching at home, they're teaching in any school environment. It is really hard because we just have a lot going on with Changing world for kids.
What's the most important thing that all teachers need to know
So let's start with what's the most important thing that all teachers need to know? Just starting out. Let's start by seeing them where they are. What would you say to them, why you wrote this book and what you want them to know?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Well, it's all about relationships, for sure. So you go ahead, Krissy
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly But I was just gonna say, that for the teacher that's maybe thinking about, school starting in just a few weeks or maybe a month, depending on where you live in the country, never underestimate. Just listening to your story, Jessica, and to my Dad's story. It's a teacher that says something or does something. And most of the time the influence, the, the, the way that we make a difference in students lives is not by the awesome lesson we've prepared, but it's through the relationships that we have in encouraging and believing in our students and not being afraid. We say in the book that teaching is a contact sport, which is why Covid was so detrimental to students because it was behind a screen and there was no contact. and so I've really learned to believe wholeheartedly that teaching is a contact sport. You have to be willing to dive in and get a little down and dirty and get messy at times and get to know these students for who they are. And if you haven't realized this, as a teacher, every student that walks in your door is completely, uniquely different. And so the job of the great teacher is to get to know each one of his or her students personally and investing and showing an interest in what they're interested in. Because then the teaching, the lessons, I don't care if you're teaching, you know, geometry or an ELA lesson, math. That comes so much easier when those students know this teacher knows me personally.
Dr. Jessica Peck Kevin what do you have to add to that?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Well, I want to clarify one thing before we move forward. Did you pass chemistry?
Dr. Jessica Peck You know what? Here's the honest truth. That was the, that was the first A I made in that program. I not only passed it, I made an A. And I never made anything less than an A going forward from that through, throughout all of my graduate studies. It was extremely transformational.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Just to set the record straight, I flunked it. Thanks for asking.
Dr. Jessica Peck I didn't ask, I didn't ask, but I'll take it.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly I flunked. Really, I flunked. I, I wrote a book called Planet, Middle School. and if anybody's been around a middle school or, you know, I maybe I named that book Planet Middle School. They're a little different. But I put my actual report card in the book. And back in those days it was a handwritten, you know, report ah card. I showed them where at midterm I flunked every subject, everyone. So I had a sister above me who was perfect and still is to this day. And she's the firstborn. I mean, she puts newspaper to the cuckoo clock. You just never know. And I had a brother who was near perfect and then there was me. So when Krissy talks about understanding all of these kids, you don't need a PhD in psychology to figure out that. Well, the firstborn daughter, that would be my sister. She was a straight A, did everything right, a rule follower and then some. and then my brother, and he was, like I say, almost straight A and played football, voted best looking in his class and all those stupid things they did years ago. And then there was me. So again, you don't have to be a psychologist to figure out I was the attention getter, the class clown. When I do network TV in New York, whether it's Fox and Friends or Good Morning America or any of them, my litmus test, Jessica, is always do I make the cameraman, the lighting guy, the audio guy, the people in the background, do they laugh? If they laugh, I tell myself I'm connected.
Dr. Jessica Peck You've been successful. Well, we are already at our first break and you have already had a great measure of success because you've made me laugh. You've made my producer really laugh. I see her over here shaking her shoulders, laughing so hard. We have so much more to talk about being a great teacher by Friday. Don't go away. We'll be right back after this break. Because of listeners like you, PreBorn helped to rescue over 67,000 babies. Your $28 to sponsor one ultrasound doubled a baby's chance at life. Your tax- deductible gift saves lives. Please join us in this life saving mission. To donate, go to preborn.com/AFR. this June 24th marks three years since Roe vs Wade was overturned.
Over 60% of abortions today happen through the abortion pill
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Somebody Prayed by Crowder Every night there by your bed, you fold your hands and bow your head throwing out another prayer in faith. When you're wondering if he's hearing you look at me I'm living proof I'm only right where I am today. Because somebody prayed so I hit my knees Cause I seen all heaven move. These hands have no power there ain't an hour he don't come through That's why when mountains move I, say looks like somebody prayed
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back, friends. That song is Somebody Prayed by Crowder. And I hope today that somebody is praying for all of the teachers who are about to go back to school. I hope somebody's praying for all the mamas who are holding on till they can go back to school. We are talking all things teacher today. Get ready to take some notes in this class that we're going to have this afternoon and get ready to laugh a little. I've already laughed a lot, so that measure of Success is high. Dr. Leman thank you so much for that. Today we've got a really big treat for you, a dynamic father daughter duo here in the studio in our virtual studio, Dr. Kevin Leman the New York Times best selling psychologist that you know and love from over 70 books. Yes, we're talking about the birth order guy and his daughter, Kristin Leman O'Reilly, who is an educational leader helping to reshape how we think about classrooms. And they have teamed up for a new book called Be a Great Teacher by Friday. Now, if you're counting, this is Tuesday when we're airing this show. That's four days from now. They said five days. It's a five day crash court. But Dr. Leman has already promised you could do it in two if you're a fast reader. So whenever you have school coming up, I know you want to be the kind of teacher that students never forget. And together, this father daughter duo is bringing insight and heart and humor to make you a lasting impact in and out of the of the classroom. So, Kevin and Krissy welcome back. Thank you so much for that. And behind the scenes, Kevin you were telling me a story. I want to hear the end of that. We'll, we'll put that on hold for just a minute. But I want to go to birth order, because you are the birth order guy. You can go to birthorderguy.com and find out more about that. But I'll tell you, for me, is the oldest of five and now raising four kids myself, Having this idea of birth order was so transformative for me. I felt seen as a person, I felt seen as a mom. I have the oldest child who is the stereotypical rule follower. As soon as she got home from college, the first thing that she did was clean out my pantry, clean out my linen closet, you know, start to get me organized. And then I've got the proverbial baby of the family who's putting on a production of Ben Hur, like, complete with an office chair turned into a chariot. And I love that they have those gifts. And so I would love to hear from you, Kevin We could start with you talking about, what is birth order and why is this important for teachers to know?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Well, birth order, to define it as that, fluid, dynamic relationship that exists between parent and child in siblings with one another. Now we'll pick on you, Jessica, since you volunteered your birth order, sure. You heard words. I don't care what he did. I don't care what she did. You were the oldest. I expect more of you, young woman. And so when someone as a kid, my guess is your little heels clicked together and your whole body got tight and, you know, you want to avoid trouble, you follow the rules. now you take Kevin Leman I was a rule breaker. I tell the story of taking my family, the entire family, there were nine of us at the time, to Disney World. and my son had graduated early in the morning from college. And he said, dad, can we go up to Disney? And I said, sure, let's go. We had a big 15 passenger van, if I remember right, and we got to Disney. And, if you've been there, there's these great big, huge signs above that says Island Hopper tickets or something. But back in those days, this was a long time ago, tickets, were 180 bucks a pop. Well, I know who's paying for it. I am. There's nine people. So I did the simple math, and I won't tell you the. It took 20 minutes. I planned on 10. But literally, Jessica, I talked my way into Disney World for nine free tickets.
Dr. Jessica Peck You did not.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly I'm telling you, my firstborn wife would never have asked. She would not have the courage to go up. they said, but it all started with relationships. And that's the first thing I said to you. On the show is it's all about relationships. And what I did, I surprised this guy behind a little window and I said, you're a firstborn son, aren't you, Daniel? He looked at me and he said, have we met? I said, no, but you are a firstborn son, aren't you? Well, yes. And then I described himself and he about fell over. And anyway, I always tell my kids and I tell teachers every, always make a friend. And Krissy made the statement earlier that's so profound. And that is a teacher. You have to know every one of those kids and they're different when those kids come in the classroom. In kindergarten, I love the pick on the kindergarten teacher because there's a kid that walks in the first day of school and there's something different about this kid. He's got an attache case in his hand. And you say, what's in the attache case? Your lunch? And he says, no, a book. And he pulls out James Michener's Hawaii. You know, I'm going to take on the plank of life. And suggests Jessica, that kid's going to do really well in school. And two minutes later, another kid comes in and he says, is this the, the kindergarten? And little Michael Adams III with three little ones after his name says, I believe he's inquiring as to whether he's not in the right classroom or not. Well, that kid is probably going to have a little tougher time. And so, these kids come to us as they are from their families. And the miracle of people like Kristin Leman O'Reilly is she was able to drop to her knees, see a little ankle, bite her eyeball to eyeball, and miraculously make all those kids in that classroom feel special. And so teaching is a profession, but it's got its art form as well. And, to be able to communicate and get behind those kids eyes.
Dr. Leman: Getting to know kids individually and middle children is different
And you said, let's start with birth order. Firstborn's our rule followers. But to be practical for all you teachers, wouldn't it be smart to sort of get a birth order diagram of where your kids are in the family? Wouldn't it be a bad idea to put four babies of the family together in the back of the classroom?
Dr. Jessica Peck That would be trouble.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly You don't need a PhD for that one, folks. So, yeah, getting to know kids individually and middle children, you know what they do life different. I call them the peanut butter and jelly, the sandwich. They're great negotiators. They're compromisers. they never had mom and dad of themselves, us babies of the family. If I ask you to name a comedian, in all probability you'd be naming a youngest child in the family. There's very few firstborn comedians to name a few, old ones. Johnny Carson was a middle and Letterman was a middle, and Nate Bargetzky, who's very much in vogue today, is a firstborn. so there's some exceptions. But most of your comedians are babies of the family for a reason. Because we couldn't compete with those little rule followers who got. And did you hear it was her first A, and then it was a bunch of string of A's after that. Did you hear what Jessica said earlier, folks? The girl's a scholar. My mother prayed for a C on my report card in high school. Prayed for a C, Lord, just one C to give me hope that this kid might do something someday. And I was thrown out of school by a dean of students. And 10 years later I was dean of students at the University of Arizona. And God had something to do with that one because I became a Christian. That period of time in my life.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is amazing. And you know, I'm thinking about my little brother. And one when he went to school, I was a rule follower. I may not have been the star student, right starting out, but I definitely was a rule follower. And I remember my brother getting in trouble one day because he had these little Hot Wheel cars and he was crashing them together, you know, during class and the teacher took away his Hot Wheel cars. Well then the next thing you know, he's got two pencils that he is then warring with each other and the teacher takes away those pencils and then he's making his fingers crash together and looks at her and says, you can't take these away. And I just see the difference in that. But you're so brilliant, Dr. Leman I can see why you're a New York Times bestseller. This is so revolutionary in thinking about it. Yeah, you're right. It doesn't take a PhD to think, let's not put the babies together in the, the back of the classroom because that's going to be a party that's going to be difficult to control.
How do you see birth order instructing the way that you teach teachers
And Krissy you've shared, you know, you're a second born. How do you see birth order instructing the way that you teach teachers? Now what are some practical ways that they could make, make good with birth order in their class?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly I think as a teacher looking at his or her class, if you can understand the birth order of your student, you you know, we've. If you've taught long enough, you've had the. The kid that makes a mistake. Maybe you're doing an art project, and all of a sudden you see him or her, tearing up the piece of paper. They made a mistake, they insist on starting over. that tells you a little bit. You get a glimpse into who those kids are. You know, the teacher that says, oh, we have to color within the lines, and we all have to do it like this. There's some kids that will thrive in that and love to just be told what to do. There's others. When teachers make those kind of statement, kids will automatically rebel against that. so understanding how kids work and how they think. What happens if a firstborn forgets their homework? What happens if a baby forgets their homework? And how does the teacher respond to those? it could be the exact same, you know, forgetting the homework. But how you respond to a firstborn is going to be different than how you respond to the baby of the family. The baby of the family could be very laissez faire and not really care too much and know that, you know, can come tomorrow or mom will drop it off later where the firstborn might be in tears and might be very upset and have a hard time moving on until that issue is resolved. And so everything we do as teachers in the classroom, if you can do a quick study in be a great teacher by Friday on the birth order section, you will do yourself a huge favor as you figure out how kids respond differently to the situations in the classroom, and that involves their friends that they make what they choose on the playground, why their little snack has to be cut a certain way or lined up a certain way, or where their backpack has to go, what their locker looks like and things falling out of their lockers, or is it completely, meticulous and organized. All of these little things give the teacher clue into how that student functions best.
Dr. Jessica Peck You know, what's funny is as you're talking, I'm thinking of, you know, my experience in school. We've talked about the oldest and the youngest. We haven't talked about the middles because the middles are always the forgotten child. Children, which. My children say that too. Like they just kind of did their thing and. And they were really easygoing. But I remember when my youngest was probably in about first grade, I actually started getting charges for him for his lunch at school, and I had sent his lunch every morning. So I thought, this clearly must be a mistake. And I called and they Said, no, he's picking up a lunch. He's buying a lunch every day. And so I called the teacher and she said, oh, don't worry about it. I know you're so busy and you're working nights and you don't have time to make his lunch, and you forget a lot. That's okay. We can, we can charge for that. And I went to my youngest and I said, did you tell your teacher that I was sleeping and couldn't make your lunch? And he said, mom, you don't know the power of a cafeteria corn dog. That thing is temptation right there. And I look at it, and you're right. They're so different. And teachers are managing all kinds of behavioral presentations just like you were so beautifully describing.
The best way is when the school and the home partner together
Krissy what is the best way that you think to prompt a change in a student's behavior, taking this individual approach into account?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Yeah, honestly, the best way is when the school and the home partner together. So anytime you really need to see a change that is significant, in that student's life, you have to get the stakeholders in that kiddo's life around the table and have a game plan. And when the student sees that the school and the parents are working shoulder to shoulder and there's no wiggle room, you know, oftentimes today kids can go home and say, you know, my teacher yelled, or my teacher was so mean, or my teacher took away my reset. and that's a very small glimpse of perhaps the real story. So communication and sitting down, with the parents or stakeholders. I've had many parent conferences with grandmas and grandpas, for example, because they're the primary caretakers. They drop Shawn off at school, they pick Sean up at school. and so those are the. Are the people that I need around the table as well. So there's a whole part in our be a great teacher by Friday that talks about purposefully partnering with parents and doing it in a really positive and purposeful. It's all the P's you can imagine, in professional way. But that is truly the key. I've seen kids change behaviors that I thought, oh, man, this is just going to be an uphill battle all year long to truly making a plan with kids. So I'll give you a quick example. I remember a kindergartner that I had who was really struggling, and wasn't academ. It was on that social. It was choices that he was making. And I called the parents and I said, okay, here's what I'm seeing. At home or at school? What are you seeing at home? And they shared. Gosh, we're seeing a lot of the same things. Like, I'm not sure what this is all about. And so I said, okay, let's work together on this. I'd like you, when, when Owen comes home tonight, I'd like you to ask Owen, you know, if you were to turn in your homework Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, what would you choose as a treat, that we could do as a family on Friday. And he said, I'll never forget. I just want my mom to take me to the park. Oh, I just want my time with my mom at the park. Kids aren't, you know, we always think that they're going to ask for a round trip tip, you know, trip to Disney World or, Universal Studios or something big that could be out of our price range. The reality is they choose something that's meaningful to them and usually based in the family. So what I did, I just printed out a little tiny picture of the park, you know, a clip art of park of a park. And I put it on his desk and it was his little visual reminder. And if he was needing a little redirection, I would just walk by, point to the picture. And of course by Friday, he was spending that time with his mom, at the park because we really partner together, the school and the home. Partnering together produces great positive change.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is so encouraging. And listen, there are so many more tips. Be a great teacher by Friday. Don't you want that? I think every teacher wants that. And as we're starting school, this is a way for you to have five winning plays to spark world changing potential. If you know a teacher, this would be a great back to school gift. Or if you're a teacher, put this on your Amazon wish list. I know I'm seeing all of those classroom wish lists there. This would be a great addition for that. Or if you're not a teacher, you can have a new kid by Friday if you want to. There are so many books and resources and we will be right back with more from this dynamic duo. And when we come back, I'm going to ask them about vitamins E and N. And maybe you haven't heard that, but you will when we come back.
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Your Way's Better by Forrest Frank I search the world to my just to find out your ways better oh Your way's better oh your way's better oh Lord, your way's better Jesus.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back friends. That is your way's Better by Forrest Frank if you have young kids in the house, you probably know there's a little dance that goes along with that. It's hard not to do the little hand motions that go making a heart with your hands. But we are talking about ways to put kids minds and hearts in motion in the classroom. And if you think you can't change the game in your classroom by Friday, I want you to think again because today we are talking with psychologist and international speaker Dr. Kevin Leman aka the Birth Order Guy, and his brilliant daughter Kristin Leman O'Reilly, who's a curriculum expert shaping young minds across the country. And their new book, Be a Great Teacher by Friday no less, offers five powerful plays to reignite your teaching, motivate students and build lifelong connections with families. Whether you teach kindergarten, middle school, high school, college or your own kids at home, this conversation is going to give you tools that you can use before the bell rings tomorrow. And I told you before the break we were going to talk. I'm a nurse. I care about your health and I have introduced to you before vitamin G, what I call vitamin G and that is gratitude. And Kevin Dr. Leman you are going to introduce to us vitamin E and why kids need it.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Yeah, and vitamin E and that example about the grades coming home. A mom simply says, wow, five A's and a B. Congratulations honey. It looks like all that hard work you put in really paid off. Fist bump and a hug and you just saved yourself $20. But the takeaway for that kid is mom recognized the hard work that I did. So encouragement focuses on the action, on the act the kid did. Praise is self centered right to the kid and he tells himself, okay mom appreciates me because I got all A's. Well, what if I got season D? So it's, it's a qualified kind of a love. And I always say, you know, praise God, all others pay cash. And, God's worthy of our praise and people aren't. So anyway, I said that on Good Morning America one morning and they looked at me like I was a crazy man. But, a lot of things I say sounds a little crazy, but when you put it to the test, guess what? It works. And that's why people love the birth order. I was on Fox and Friends, just several weeks ago and I had it on the radio as I drove into the studio and they were talking about birth order before I came up on. The three hosts loved it, and then they were talking about it after I left and they talked about it the next morning. So people love the concept of birth order that the first two kids, in a family are night and day different. And we all do things. And like Krissy so brilliantly said, and she is brilliant, you have to get behind that kid's eyes and see how he sees life. He's not going to mesh to your world, okay? You have to mesh to his world. You have to get behind his eyes to understand why he thinks the way he does. And so you change behavior by establishing what I call equality with that kid. And it's through respect and communication. As Krissy so nicely, said, you know, you purposely, partner with the parents. A lot of P's in there, but boy, that's key to changing behavior in kids. So I'm so grateful for Eleanor Wilson, that old gray haired school teacher who I thought was at desk doorstop for, turning my life around. There were three women in my life, my, my mother and Ms. Wilson and my lovely wife, who really were just instrumental in not only am I turning my life over to God, but also just in a practical sense of, realizing that I could do things that I never thought I, I could do. I never wanted to, to be a speaker. I never wanted to write a book. I remember people saying, you ought to write a book when I was teaching at the university. I said, you got to be kidding. I'm never going to write a book. Well, that was 72 books ago, so.
Dr. Jessica Peck Exactly. Well, and, and you said that's such a great distinction between praise and encouragement and I appreciate you. We were talking about this during the break about how you can save yourself 20 bucks and just give them some well placed encouragement and so that's vitamin E. Is encouragement really encouraging them specifically in what they did. And I know, I see this, from even a health standpoint, from a psychology standpoint, if you tell a kid, hey, good job, you did a great job on that test, but if you really praise and will not praise, because we just heard about that from Dr. Leman but encourage their specific character traits, saying, you showed perseverance in that you showed character, you really showed determination. You did not give up. Those things are more powerful. Krissy what do you have to vitamin E? And can you introduce us to vitamin an N? Sure.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly so, you know, kids need encouragement. They're bombarded with all sorts of things today in schools. Negative. you know, they spend more time on their phones than they do interacting with people. And they're just fed a constant, source of. I'm sure they compare themselves with things that they see. So that school classroom really needs to be a place where they are encouraged. They feel connected, they feel a sense of belonging. and a lot of our schools, you know, really do the classroom functions like a small little family. And in all of our families, there's times where you have to say no. And that's the vitamin N and vitamin N and vitamin E have to go hand in hand because there's times that kids need a no. you have to have high expectations, and then you have to hold kids accountable. So if the expectation is, you know, there's homework tonight and your expectation is to bring it back tomorrow, or, you know, maybe you're going to sit out at recess and finish that, then, then that's the vitamin N where it comes in and says, you know, not today, you'll have recess tomorrow as soon as you get that homework done. vitamin N is also needed. when we talk about safety, and I, I know you understand this, especially with your nursing background, that there's times, you know, we don't share food at school, and there's a reason why, because I might have an allergy, that I don't know what's in your lunch and kids, standing on a table or a chair or. There's times where no just creates good, healthy boundaries for kids to keep them safe, to keep them healthy. and so sometimes teachers are afraid to say no because they don't want the backlash from the parents. and so we have to be encouraging by nature, but then we also have to be willing to say no when, when a no is needed and making sure our yes is yes, our no is no. So kids know where we stand, kids don't tend to misbehave in the classroom, where they know what the expectations are and what the consequences are when we fall out of those boundaries.
Dr. Jessica Peck You're so right. Yeah, go ahead, go ahead, Dr. Leman go ahead.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly let me point out that all kids are attention getters. Okay? All kids start off as attention getters. The question is, are they getting attention to positively or negatively? And as kids go from simple, attention getting, and then it turns the negative attention, that kid's mantra is saying, I only count in life when I'm noticed. Okay? How healthy is that? And then as a kid gets more discouraged, they move down to the power level. So I'm talking about power levels of m. Misbehavior behavior. The first one's attention, and then they migrate to power. This is the kid who, if Krissy was in the classroom, she'd say, michael, have a seat in your. Behind your desk. And Michael might slowly go there, give her teacher a glare, cross his arms like this across his chest and give. You think I like. Okay, But I want you to know I'm not happy about it. Well, there's a powerful charge child. And so if a teacher, is not in healthy authority in the classroom, if the parent is not in healthy authority in their home with kids, the kids will become powerful. Now, their mantra is, I only count life when I dominate, when I win, when I control everybody. Stop for a moment and ask yourself, if that's a little boy, what kind of a husband and father is he going to be someday? A bad one. I can answer that. And I'm not that smart. But then there's another level of misbehavior, and that's where a kid's been hurt by life. And Chris would tell you that there's a lot of kids come into our, classrooms who come from homes that are far from ideal. They come from very rough environments, and they've been hurt by life. And so their mantra is, okay, I've been hurt by life, therefore I have a right to strike out at other people. Now, let me tell you something. Our state prisons across the US Are filled with kids at that level at the revenge principle. And that's why they live a life where they struck out at other people because they felt like life had handed them, more than a few low blows. So it's not rocket science. And getting behind that kid's eyes and seeing how they see life is fundamental. If you want to change behavior patterns.
Dr. Jessica Peck In kids, that's really thought provoking. Because what I say is when kids are looking for attention, we say that a lot, lot as adults. Like that kid just wants attention or other kids say it about them. Really what I find is that they're seeking connection. That's what they're looking for. And you given some great tips on creating a respectful and actively engaged classroom. Giving them encouragement, but also giving them boundaries. And this is something I'm actually going to talk about on my show here on Friday. So parents pay attention because I'm going to talk a lot about authority in the home and how I'm seeing authority dynamics shifting because we have this internal interesting dynamic where we have a generation of kids who are very digitally fluent, they know how to use technology and they feel like they know more than their parents for the first time. I mean when we were growing up we saw our teachers as, as you said, Dr. Leman Old. And so they've been here forever so they have to know all of these things and we had respect for them. But that's changing because we think, oh, you don't know, that's an old way of doing things. And I think empowering them by saying no in a healthy way is a really, really important thing. Krissy what do you see as the top issue facing new teachers?
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Usually the number one issue I see is how to manage a classroom and just their willingness to be the healthy authority in that classroom and having a clear game plan. And so teachers, over the summer, you know, they would be so wise to pick up a copy of Be a Great Teacher by Friday. There's there's a guide within the book that's just going to help you make a game plan for how are you going to schedule that first week of school? What's that going to look like? And how are you going to connect with the home? I think you're completely right about those attention getters really seeking the connection. That's what they're really thriving for. And so that's the biggest thing I see for new teachers especially is just they allow, whether you have 15 or 27 kids in that classroom room, sometimes those kids are in charge instead of the teacher. And that makes for a really difficult situation. And it's much harder to hit the restart button and start a new school year. So you really have to come in knowing what your game plan is and also being wise enough to know if something's not working along the way. You got to pivot a little bit. There's people in your building that been doing this a long time and have great skills. And so the smart teacher is one that's willing to reach out. Maybe you see another teacher whose kids are walking down the hallway beautifully and you don't know how they did that. Well, the smart teacher goes after school and says, okay, I couldn't help but notice your class walks the hallways or enters the cafeteria wonderfully. What's your secret? What's your trick? So that the teacher that's a lifelong learner, that's curious, that's willing to ask questions, that's the smart teacher.
Dr. Jessica Peck Then that requires vulnerability because it's hard to go and say, but otherwise, what, what is your alternative? Just sit there and continue to struggle with that thing? I agree. It is so important to be a lifelong learner. And Kevin you were talking during the break about the importance of making a first impression. And there are a lot of teachers out there who are praying for their class that they're going to encounter this year. They're preparing for it. They're already starting to envision how they're going to set things up and what their curriculum will be. What advice do you have to that to for them about making that first impression? And as Krissy was talking about setting things off on the right tone and.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly The right foot, well, again, you only get one chance to make that first impression. So every teacher has a way of getting the kids attention, whether it's a snap of a finger or they have all kinds of ingenious ways of doing that. But you know yourself as a parent, and this goes for teachers, what teachers have to understand is the kids, the students. We call them scholars at my school. School, they actually want to please you. And as a mother of four, I'm sure you realize your kids really want to please you. Well, let them please you. I tell parents all the time, 11 and 12 year old, a great job for them around the house is paying the bills online. What a great practical way of showing a 12 year old how much a mortgage payment is or how much rent is or a car payment. I call it reality, distance, discipline. And so as you bring up these kids, you have positive expectations for them, but you're giving them experience at handling life. You don't snow plow the roads of life for them. You don't make excuses for them. If you do, you know, excuses make the week weaker. So you're good at holding kids, accountable, but it's important for kids to feel like they have a piece of the action with your 16 year old. I'd love to interview a 16 year old and my first question would be, hey, hey, is this a home or a hotel that you live in? At Dr. Peck's home?
Dr. Jessica Peck I have a 16 year old in my house. I'm feeling like I want to go ask that question now.
Dr. Kevin Leman and Kristin Leman O'Reilly Yeah, well, most parents, they provide a hotel for kids where they do everything for them and the kids do little. No, it's a home. Everybody pitches in, everybody gives back and forth environment. And so Krissy would tell you that the the great teachers that she has helped mentor through the years are the ones that aren't always doing the talking. She's got the kids in small group.
Dr. Jessica Peck I hate to cut you off, Dr. Leman because there's so much wisdom for you to have. There's so much more that we didn't get to. So if you want more, get a copy of Be a great Teacher by Friday. Five winning plays to spark world changing potential or get have a new kid by Friday or one of the other 70 books that he has written. Thank you so much Kevin and Krissy And wherever you are, I pray the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you and give you peace. I'll see you here tomorrow.
Jeff Chamblee The views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Dr. Kevin Leman and his daughter, Kristin Leman O'Reilly, join Jessica to discuss their co-authored book, "Be a Great Teacher by Friday."
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Become a Great Commission Partner TODAY to help AFR transform culture by rebuilding the family. When you donate today, you’ll get access to:
