Dr. Jessica Peck We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com/AFR friend we're living in a defining moment today. A woman facing an unexpected pregnancy can order the abortion pill online, often before anyone has the chance to tell her she is loved, that she's not alone, or that there is hope. That's why you are needed right now. You were made for this moment. At PreBorn Network clinics, mothers are welcomed with compassion, practical support and a free ultrasound. And when she sees her baby and hears that tiny heartbeat for the very first time, fear often gives way to hope. In fact, more than 80% of abortion vulnerable women choose life after seeing their baby on an ultrasound at a PreBorn Network clinic. That one moment can save a baby's life and open a mother's heart to the hope of Jesus Christ. This is our moment to stand. For those who cannot speak for themselves. Just $28 provides one life saving ultrasound. $140 helps rescue five babies. Please don't wait. Dial pound 250 and say the keyword best baby. That's pound 250 baby. If you're a business owner, would you consider a larger donation to claim a write off? Your best gift would be appreciated. A stand alone gift of $15,000 will sponsor an ultrasound machine for a needy clinic helping to save countless babies lives for years to come. All gifts are tax- deductible. Together we can save lives one heartbeat at a time. preborn.com/AFR hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peek.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day. I'm so eager to spend time with you today talking about a really important topic. We're going to talk about al today if you listen to my show. You know that's what my mother in law calls AI because in print it looks like a big A and a little I but it a little L but it is really artificial intelligence or super intelligence. And the world is changing so, so quickly. I think about how I've been talking for the last Decade about families living at the speed of a smartphone. And a smartphone looks like, you know, the Pony Express compared to AI. And families are really being asked to make decisions about technology faster than most of us can understand it. Our kids understand it faster than we do. We can't anticipate risk like we could in a world before AI. We know how to anticipate risk and driving and crossing the street and the things that we all learned how to do. But we can't anticipate risk in a world that we're just not fast enough to keep up with. A student can generate an essay now in seconds. The capability of AI is astounding. I know this. In higher education, we're talking about capacity for students to create avatars that come to class and look like they're attending class or autonomously answer their emails or. Or do their assignments for them. A parent can ask a chatbot for guidance about a difficult relationship, which is not something that I recommend doing, that needs to be reserved for real humans with biblical wisdom. But a convincing voice or video can make something fabricated feel very trustworthy. Did you know that AI only needs a couple of seconds of your voice to make a complete clone of your vocabulary? This is wreaking havoc in the world. And adults are also wondering, how is AI going to change their jobs? How do we educate our kids for the future of AI? Young people are trying to prepare for careers whose expectations are abruptly shifting, especially those who may be in college thinking, what does this mean? Now, underneath all of these questions and these real practical applications is something deeply personal. Who and what are we learning to trust? Because our culture often measures progress by what becomes faster and easier and more efficient. But family life reminds us that the best things in life are grow slowly and not easily. Children learn discernment by wrestling with issues, relationships deepened through conflict and rupture and repair, disagreement and forgiveness. Faith grows as we practice our spiritual disciplines. We pray, we study scripture, we practice obedience, and we walk alongside other believers. Technology is taking on more of those tasks, even generating prayers, which I also don't recommend because there's no Holy Spirit in AI. We really need to be intentional in considering which responsibilities are helping form our character and which shouldn't be outsourced to an algorithm or to AI. Now, today's guest knows this world very well. I'm joined today by Misty Phillip. She's an author, she's a speaker, she's a media expert, she's a podcast host. She is co founder and chief operating officer at Trilogy Works. This is an advisory firm specializing in cybersecurity and AI. She founded Spark Media. She spent more than 20 years homeschooling her three boys. Her background brings together technology, Christian communication, and the everyday work of raising a family, which I love, and you can see why I want her perspective. She has two books I think are really must reads, the Trojan Horse of the Digital Age, and Upskill or Die. And she's here today to help us, discern AI in a world that seems anything but discerning. Misty I'm so glad to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us.
Misty Phillip Thank you so much for having me on. I've been looking forward to this conversation.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, Misty, why don't you just introduce yourself to our listeners?
Talk about how do you go from homeschooling mom to really treading the world?
Talk about how do you go from homeschooling mom to really treading the world? The. The hallways of the upper echelon of discussions that are happening right now about cyber security and AI in our country?
Misty Phillip Well, I can tell you it was not my plan, but God has a way of moving and guiding us. So, you know, I went from homeschooling. My kids started to grow up, and I realized I needed to mother them, not smother them, and that I needed something to do or I was gonna drive them crazy. So I started writing, speaking, podcasting. That led to my journey with Spark Media, and I did that faithfully for about five years. I was teaching people how to podcast, ministering to people all around the world through podcasting. You know, during Cove when. When the. The church doors were closed, I was equipping people to share the gospel online, and it was an incredible journey. But I started to get really burned out. And my husband and I were talking about what the next several years look like. And my husband's been in technology our entire marriage over 30 years, and he's really a technical expert. And he said, why don't you quit your company and come work with me? And I went, what? You want me to do? What? So I was actually. I wrote another book that I'd been working on for about five years. I went to NewSong York, and the book was on Times Square Big, you know, Life Size Me and my book. Well, it coincided with, Tech Week in NewSong York. And before that, I was kind of on the fence. I was like, what am I going to do? I don't really know tech. And I went to a Faith in AI event that night, and there were all of these believers that work at all of the major, companies, and they were really excited about al. They were excited about this technology. But really, even though they were believers, they weren't asking hard questions. I raised my kids through social media, video games, the Internet. I saw some places that we just really as parents overall didn't do a good job and kind of the unexpected consequences of raising kids through technology and felt like we've got to ask more questions and we've got to do a better job job. So I went back to my hotel that night and I realized God had moved me for such a time as this because I'm a wife, because I'm a mom, because of those concerns, because of my biblical background. and so here I am, you know, working alongside my husband, helping enterprise clients develop AI policies and to use AI effectively within their organization and keeping it secure, making sure their cyber security is top notch. And so that has definitely opened the door for me to be in all kinds of rooms that I never expected.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, you said, you said three words together, faith and AI, which seem like they are so disparate. And what I see misty, is, you know, this kind of divergence and, and that happens usually after the introduction of any new technology. We saw it after the smartphone. I know for me, the first time I encountered a smartphone, one of my nursing students had one. I had my, my drug guide book, you know, and it dog eared and highlighted and, and he had a smartphone. And I said, what is that? And he said, it's a smartphone. And I said, you can't look up information on that. And he said, want to race? And at the end of that conversation, he looked at my phone and said, that's a dumb phone. And I got a smartphone that day because I recognize the potential. But we have this divergence where we have people who are just running as fast as they can, just saying what is possible? Like, let's go. There's, it's almost like an arms race. It's an AI race. And then you have people saying, absolutely not. I will not do it. This has kinds of implications for humans and creating and the art of, you know, that comes from your soul. But there I find that there's not enough people in the middle of that faith and AI acknowledging the reality of the technology that's here. As much as we would like to go back to Little House on the Prairie days, that's not happening. But we also, how do we engage responsibly? And what do you see as the landscape of that space in the middle, that faith and AI, where those two places meet?
Misty Phillip Yeah. So I call it a both hand. I mean, because. And you're right, there are people. And I call those people that are, like, running. They're running with scissors, right? That can be really dangerous because they're running ahead with this technology without asking questions. I see another group of people, and they're afraid because they're afraid of what they don't know. And I think the answer is somewhere there in between. God chose us to live here for such a time as this. Just like back in the printing press. If Martin Luther.
If Martin Luther had not been faithful to do what he did, and if they hadn't embraced the printing press, we wouldn't have books or Bibles today
had not been faithful to do what he did, and if they hadn't embraced the printing press, we wouldn't have books or Bibles today. So people at that time, they were afraid of it. Same kind of thing. So I think that as believers, we need to steward the technology wisely. That means asking a lot of really great questions and then setting boundaries personally for our families, for our workplaces. And I am a proponent of AI. I think it can be an incredible tool. Tool to be used, to do all kinds of work for the kingdom. It can help busy moms to be more productive so that we can spend time on the things that really matter. For. For example, when I was podcasting full time, it would take me forever to. Once we recorded the interview, to. Then I'd listen through the whole interview again, so I could write down all the show notes, and I'd type them all out, making sure I had everything. Now you can drop an episode, and that's all AI and, as well, you know, drop that episode in there. You get a full transcript, you get show notes. Then I can go in there and tweak it and add what I want to add and change what I want to change. But it took something that was really laborious for me and can do it in seconds. And then that frees me up to do all kinds of things. So I think it's in the way that we approach it. We have to understand it's a tool. You know, people do name their AI assistants, and that anthropomorphizes it. I'm not saying that. Right. Anthropomorphizes it. So we think. Think it's like human. We think that AI knows us, but it's not. We don't talk to our PowerPoint like that. We don't talk to our. Our word like that. So why would we do that with this technology? It is a tool, and it can. Can be used for lots of great administrative tasks. But I agree with you completely what you said in the opening. It should not Replace the things that are meant for humans. It should not be our counselor, it should not be our pastor. It should not be our par. Are, it should not be our friend. We shouldn't be going to AI for friendship. I like to, to look at it as a tool that can help us, multiply our time in all kinds of ways. But it's a tool at the end of the day,
Dr. Jessica Peck Misty, such great perspective. So I don't want to run with scissors, but I don't want to be frozen with fear either. I really want to engage in the middle and I think it's hard to do that. It's hard to either kind of slow down from the things that you think like, okay, this is progress. It's hard to speed up you. The places where you think, I'm not sure where this is. And one of the things, you know, you're talking about AI being a tool, which it absolutely is. One of the things that I've seen change from a smartphone is a smartphone was really neutral and it depended on user input. You had to guide it. You know, you were telling it which sites you wanted to go to and, and it was really kind of static in that way. We saw of course, the web 2.0 where we had user generated content and that's where we've seen go when we have this two sided place. But the algorithm is really shaping our worldview in a way that we haven't seen before from other more passive forms of media. And it is a tool, but it requires I think even an increased level of discernment and wisdom as we engage with that. Because if we don't and we just let it kind of wash over us, it's telling us what shows to watch and even, you know, disturbingly personally, on my iPhone, I see, you know, I'm texting my kids and it's prompting me what to say. And I'm thinking, I don't care if that prompt just says like, hey, how are you? Like, I feel like I want it to come from me. So can you talk a little bit more about being intentional, looking around to see the ways that AI might be influencing your worldview without you be even aware of it.
Misty Phillip Oh, this is such a great question. It is impacting us in so many ways that we do not realize, you know, it's embedded in social media. So it is affecting we see who we're friends with. Like you said that the things that we watch, the things that we see.
The problem with AI is that it knows us because of all the data that we have given to the Internet about ourselves, all the data that we have given social media about ourselves
The problem with AI is that it knows us because of all the data that we have given to the Internet about ourselves, all the data that we have given social media about ourselves. And so where these other passive, you know, social media was, a little bit different. It didn't know us the way that AI knows us. And so from the ads that you see, all of the, everything that you put into an AI. First of all, if you're using an AI, a generative AI model like a ChatGPT, or, any of those models, Claude or anthropic or any of them, you're putting in more data points. All of that data is being, saved on a server somewhere. And it is, it is creating a profile on you so that it knows what you like before you even know it knows. If you like these things, then you're probably going to like, like these things. And so you have to be really careful. It's really interesting. My husband is not even.
Dr. Jessica Peck Hold on, I'm gonna find you right
Misty Phillip there.
Dr. Jessica Peck I'm gonna hold you right there, Misty, because I want to hear all of this. We're already at our first break. I could talk about this all day, every day because I see it changing the world like in dog years. It is just amazing, the, the, the quickness, the speed at which it's happening. So I want to hear about your husband who is in AI and cybersecurity, about how he's on Facebook. We have lots more to talk about with Misty. What you should know, how you should guide your families to be wise and discerning in this age. We'll be right back with Misty Phillip. Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nurse Mama. Ah. Did you know that this content is listener supported. Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A Generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.net/give that's afr.net/give
Fight On My Knees by Evan Craft You might not know it, but somebody's been praying for this very moment. Feels like a whisper but in heaven it's loud oh, don't give up don't give up on the ones you love oh, just a little faith is enough help me to remember My help comes from heaven God, when I surrender I find all I need Strength in every weakness in the, name of, Jesus, always try to seek and I find all my knees I fight on
Dr. Jessica Peck my knees. Welcome back, friends. That is Fight on My Knees by Evan Craft. And that feels like my daily posture here I'm praying all the time. In a world that is just full of chaos. Today, we're talking about the chaos that is artificial intelligence, or super intelligence, as you may have heard it called. We're talking to expert Misty Phillip She's author of two books that are really insightful. One is called the Trojan Horse of the Digital Age. Why Christians Must Discern AI and Upskill Or Die Thriving in the AI Revolution. And we've been talking about how AI is really a reality that families need to wake up and be intentional in dealing with. And before the break, Misty M. You were just about to share, you were continuing to share your experience in this and. And really looking at the personalization of AI and how it's influencing our worldview and how it retains all of the data that we give it. It does not ever go away. And you were just about to tell us about something in your husband not being on Facebook. So I'll give it to you right there. There.
Misty Phillip Yeah. So my husband's not on Facebook, but he's been searching for some things online. And now I'm getting ads on my Facebook, which I'm like, how does. How do they know that? I mean, you've probably been in a conversation with someone and heard a word or said a word, and then the next thing you know, that comes up. But, I find it interesting. These are things that we haven't talked about. And I don't know if it's because of our proximity. I don't understand how it all works. I just know that everything that we say and do online in a search engine, it's all being stored, it's all being tracked. And they are, they know, you know, who my husband is. They know, our relationship. And so it's just very interesting that that is happening to everybody everywhere. And, you know, it's also creating a little bit of a surveillance state. So, you know, there's a camera on every corner. Every time you drive through a toll booth, your phone is constantly updating. I know somebody I just heard a story of, they had, an app on their phone that they didn't realize that was in real time tracking them every two minutes. And so she kept going to places and somebody was. She had a stalker that would show up and follow her, and somehow that app had gotten on her phone. So we really have to be diligent about our technology. What we're allowing in. The whole. Whole theme of the Trojan horse is they accepted this gift, thinking it's a gift. and they. They Wheeled it right in and they didn't ask any questions like, who built this? What's inside of it? what, what's the impact of it? And they threw a big party and, and it was their demise. So I think we need to be asking questions about, who built it.
We have to understand that AI is not neutral. It does have a worldview baked into it because it's been trained on the Internet
We have to understand that AI is not neutral. It does have a worldview baked into it because it's been trained on the Internet. And the people who have created these tech giants that have created all of these different AIs, none of them are believers and they have an agenda as well. So we, we can't look at it like it's neutral. And so we have to have our gates up and we have to guard what we're allowing in.
Dr. Jessica Peck You're right in that we, we. It's not neutral and we need to ask wise questions. And I fear Misty that just become so callous to technology in our lives. So if you're downloading an app, no one reads the legal disclaimer that you scroll through. You just scroll through to the bottom and you check the box.
Misty Phillip Except my husband. Except my husband. He needs to teach us in cyber security. Yes. And, and that's why he would never allow me to have a TikTok account. He read the EULA, that's the short term for that user agreement. And he read it and he was like, absolutely not. I, never want you on there because you're giving permission for them to have access apps like your banking app. People probably don't know that because they don't read it. They just, they want the app and they check it. And that's so dangerous because. And they're constantly upgrading them and sneaking more things in into them. So we really have to be wise.
Dr. Jessica Peck It is good to hear that from you because I, I think we just click the button. You don't know the rights that you are signing away and the rights for them to have your pictures, to use your pictures and like you said, have access to all kinds of personal information. We need to wake and be more intentional. And much like the story you were talking about earlier, many of these apps, especially social media apps, the default setting is public. Is to let people have access to your location tracking. And we're seeing in young people an increase in cyber stalking because it's also normal to share your location with your friends. I mean, I'm amazed at how many young people will just open up, oh, let me see where my friend is. And they just know their every move. But that to me tells us that we're just becoming desensitized to having that kind of surveillance state where we're just videoed everywhere, everywhere we go, everything is surveilled. And that's something that families need to wake up to.
Do you have any other advice, any other practical advice on ways that we can be more intentional and aware of the technology interfaces that we're encountering?
Do you have any other advice, any other practical advice on ways that we can be more intentional and aware of the technology interfaces that we're encountering?
Misty Phillip Yeah, so for, families with small children, I, I wouldn't put pictures of my kids online. I know that it started off as this way to communicate with family. You have other ways to send them pictures. Do that. Don't post pictures of your kids. You might be really proud that they did something really good. Talk about it. But that image, you can take that image and three seconds of audio and create a deep fake of them doing all kinds of things. And, and there are things that I wouldn't even say on this program. Very nefarious things are being done with children's images. So I would start there. Don't put your kids pictures on. If your kids are older, you really need to know what apps are on their phone, how they're communicating, what they're communicating. and you have to model good discernment for them. You know, just limiting their time on their phones or their devices is not enough. We really need to teach them to have biblical wisdom, to teach them to have discernment. They need the word of God in there so that. In. In themselves, so that it will come out of them and they can judge things rightly. we need to set up good boundaries with our technology and, and we have to model that for our. So we can't just say, hey, you know, I don't want you to be on your phone. And then we pick up our phones. Right. So I think that it's, you know, we don't have to be perfect parents, but we do need to be present and, and guiding and showing our kids in the way that they should go. That is that discipleship. It starts in the morning. It's at noon. That's based on those verses in Deuteronomy. It's the Shema. It's what we do all day long. And so, so more is caught than taught. So we can tell them to do these things, but if we're not modeling it for them, they're going to think that we're a, hypocrite. Or they're going to do, what we do, not what we tell them to do. Right?
Dr. Jessica Peck Yeah, absolutely. Misty, you're singing from my songbook here. Because this is exactly what I'm saying to families all day, every day. And in my profession and health professions, we're studying that and even coming up with vocabulary for it. I've talked about it on this show here before about a phenomenon called fubbing, which is phone snub it. We have validated scales that we can measure the impact that has on relationships and children because we are, you know, we somehow make our. Justify our own phone use, but, you know, minimize theirs. And we've got to be modeling that digital discernment, that digital discipleship, which is really important. And it's all about relationships. Misty, that that's really what you're saying. And I want to talk more in moving. And another area to be very discerning is about letting your kids, kids engage with AI companions. Now, we saw in the wake of Covid 19, a mental health crisis that was declared by many, many, public health organizations, many healthcare organizations, federal government, even. I agree with, with their, with their assessment. There's also a loneliness epidemic. And those effects are still persisting, even though no one wants to talk about Cove And we've moved on. It really injured a generation of children especially. And one of the things I'm concerned about is how compelling companion AIs are. And I. The first time in modern American history where we've had real competition for that relationship with parenting. Because the AI chatbots, the companions, they don't forget things. They're trained to please you. They're really downright sycophantic, honestly. It is experimental. If you review in the terms of use, it says it is experimental. And bad things can happen, but they're always there, and they can contradict parents, and you can personalize it so much. The accent you want, the gender you want, the name you want, the personality you want. What do parents need to know and wake up about this and be intentional in guiding their kids to make real relationships more compelling than artificial ones.
Misty Phillip Yeah, I'm so glad that you talk about this. This. I cannot overemphasize the importance of this. And it starts really young because now they're putting AIs into little toys. And we're seeing it from the toys all the way through, you know, to teens and everything. And you're right. This is the most lone, anxious generation. And now, AI is telling it how, how much it knows that person and that it's its friend. And all of that is. That's very, very dangerous. So first of all, we, we have to get them, off their phones, off their devices and in real community with other people. Sadly, I was driving down the road the other day and I passed a soccer field and there was this group of teenagers prob, and I kid you not, they were a group. They should have been hanging out and laughing and talking as they're walking on this track. And they all had phones in their hands and they're all looking down. So they're all looking at something else while they're in real community. So we need to create device free times that of community. So whether that is in a church, whether that is in a sport, whatever your family enjoys, family game night, like put your phones in a box and everybody hang out and provide those opportunities for real face to face communication. Because you're right, that is so important. Especially because the AI acts like it knows us. It acts like it's our friend. But we've seen where it has caused, caused harm up until death to people. And you're right, it is sycophantic. So it tells you not what you need to hear but what you want to hear. And so you don't always want to hear the rules that your parents make. Right. As a kid. Yeah, but we need those because those boundaries keep us safe. So if an AI is telling us things that are unsafe, it's not good. And parents do need to be aware how their kids are using AI, right. Look at their history. Not only that though, talk to them about how they use AI, how, how they, how the parent uses AI, how their kids can use it as a tool. Because if you don't give them the guidelines and boundaries, they are going to use it. But teach them that it's not good for relationship and make sure you're looking at that history on their computer or their phone so that you know what kind of conversations they're engaging in. But that begins with you know, being present and open ended conversation and then asking them how they're using it and then modeling for them. Good use.
Dr. Jessica Peck One of the phrases that I hear so often that's just become normalized in family life today is get off your phone, get off your phone, get off your phone. And you said earlier Misty, in the first place segment, you know, both and, and that's where I think we're missing out on that. Get off your phone. It's get off your phone and get into real relationship. It there has to be a, ah, following of an invitation to engage in real relationship and real community that's more compelling than the Artificial community that's online. And what we see is kids who are desperate for connection. And yet our first instinct when we punish them is to take away what they see as their primary means of connection. And then we wonder why it doesn't work and why they're so angry about that they are crying out. Every nerve in their brain is just craving connection, and we need to step in and meet that need. And one of the things that, I'm concerned about is that connection that they have to the AI chatbot and all of the personal information that they put in there. Because they don't have discernment, they're pouring out their heart. They may say, your whole family history. They may be putting information like their birth date or their, you know, location or where they are or their deepest, darkest feelings that are maybe being used even to train another model that, are can be publicly discoverable.
What kind of boundaries do you think for both for security and just relationship thriving need to be on the information that you put into an AI companion or chatbot?
What kind of boundaries do you think for both for security and just relationship thriving, need to be on the information that you put into an AI companion or chatbot?
Misty Phillip Yeah, this is so good. I say do not put anything into an AI model that you are not comfortable standing on a stage with a microphone in your hand, with millions of people in the audience. If you are comfortable saying that, and knowing that it's going to remember long after you've forgotten that you said it, then go for it. Right? We should not put any personal identifying information. Do not share your deepest, darkest secrets. Because like I said earlier, it's all being tracked, it's all being stored, and it will be used against you, whether that's in marketing or some other way. it is another data point being collected on you. So I think that the good use is looking at it like it is a tool that can be used to help us do activities, that will make us more productive. But never as a counselor, never as a friend, and never put, Like I had a friend who put all of her health information. And, this becomes a little, complex because I know that, that health agencies, hospitals, doctors offices are using a form of AI, but they're not using, an open model. So we need to differentiate there. But she took what her doctor said and put it into an AI model. And I'm like, would you stand on the stage and tell everybody what you're going through in your health? Like, why would you do that? And, and it looks helpful, but we have to think about what the potential harms are of that data being leaked, of it being stored, and how it could possibly be used against us.
Dr. Jessica Peck Those are very serious things to think about, but a way that we can be wise and discerning in a digital age. And it is. It just feels like a wild wild west out there, Misty. It really does. And I'm so grateful for people like you who are willing to step into this space and to create some boundaries. I encourage you to talk about these things with your families. It may seem like a no brainer, but we're all learning. And we'll learn some more with Misty Phillip right on the other side of this break. Doctor Ligon Duncan from the American Family Studios documentary the God who Speaks
Dr. Ligon Duncan The Bible is inspired because its nature is the self revelation of God. In other words, the authority of the Bible is the authority of God. Behind your doctrine of scripture is a doctrine of God. The product of scripture is the activity of God. The Scripture is the product of God the Holy Spirit, which is why God, the Holy Spirit uses it in conversion and in sanctification. So what we believe about the Bible is based on what we believe about its source. And because we believe God to be the author of the Bible, we talk about the quality of the Bible as inspired or God breathed. Visit thegodwhospeaks.org
Heart of the Father by Ryan Ellis I've never known, a love like yours. so intimate, so powerful and I've tasted, I've seen and nothing comes close. I've never known a love like yours Jesus, your name is power, breath and living water. And your spirit guides, me to the heart of the Father. Letting your praise ring louder every day and every hour. Cause your spirit guides me to the heart of the Father.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back friends. That's Heart of the Father by Ryan Ellis. And I'm so grateful that we can run to the heart of the Father when it feels like the world is overwhelming and the world is changing so fast with the advances from artificial intelligence and we see AI everywhere. I'm talking today to someone who knows this world very well. She is walking this world to help share wisdom with us on a daily basis. I'm so grateful for that. We're talking to Misty Phillip. She is author of the Trojan Horse of the Digital Age. Why Christians Must Discern AI and Upskill Or Die Thriving in the AI revolution. These are the two resources she had. We're going to talk about some of her other resources that she has in just a minute, including an app she made with her son. But before we go there, I want to finish the conversation that we are having here. And if you're Listening in the things that we've said is, hey, wake up and realize how much AI is already impacting your family life. Draw your family together, have a family convo and say, how is AI impacting our life? And where do we need to put some boundaries in there? Some of the boundaries Misty and I have talked about is not putting your personal information into any chatbot that includes medical information or personal information, treating it like it's a counselor, drawing boundaries around that. And Misty You draw a very firm boundary around the. I think it's a clear way to see this spiritual and relational responsibilities is. That is for humans. But there are some things that can be for preparation, for administration, for just practical things. Much like you talked about helping with your podcast where it tell. Tell us a little bit more about that boundary and how we can set those boundaries in place.
Misty Phillip Well, I love, I love how you broke that down, because that's exactly how I use it. I. I am not afraid of AI. I do use AI. I am careful not to put, you know, personal information in there, but I use it for administrative tasks. Like when I go to speak, I'll put my talk in there and then I'll let it create the PowerPoints for me. Because my audience doesn't care if I, create the PowerPoint or it's created by somebody else. Right. Something else. And so I allow AI to do that. So I never look at an AI model and go, you know, I'm feeling kind of sad today. I wonder what AI is going to say. I don't ever look at it in a relational way, ever. I mean, that's just a hard and fast rule I look at it for. How can it help me to be more productive? How can it. It's really great at research. what. How can it help me? Like, when we take on a new client, I'll have IT research the client. It'll pull tons of data that would take me a long time to read. And it can summarize it. Right before I, go into an interview, let's say I'm interviewing with somebody new. Or, just there's so many ways that it can be used for good. Bible translators are using it to translate all of the Bible. I mean, there's so many great ways that we can steward this technology for good. and I think that, I'm actually working on my next book, and my next book is talking about, you need to have an AI apologetic before you write an AI policy. So I've been asked to speak on Creating an AI policy for an organization and I think this translates to personal lives and to family lives as well. You can't write a policy or come up with the rules, unless you know what you believe about it and why. And for me I think that starts with education, understanding, understanding what AI is, what it isn't, what it's capable of, and then creating those are those own boundaries for ourselves. So, you know, the way you use AI may be different than the way I use AI and that's okay. We need to come up with the way that we use it. So I have a son that is, he's an adult. he was a podcast producer and he and used AI to basically work himself out of a job by doing all of the editing and making the social media clips. But he doesn't send anything to his clients until he has overseen all of it. but now people that can't afford to have a full time producer have his wisdom and knowledge of being a producer for five years of audio editing and video editing. And so there's so much, many great ways that we can use it. And I think if we're just wise, just using wisdom and setting boundaries for ourself first and then for our company, our family and and so on.
Dr. Jessica Peck I'm so glad to hear you say that. I mean, I use it differently than you do and my role as a professor, I can have it critique my lectures. I remember the first time I put one of my lectures into AI and I said critique this from a student perspective. And then I, you know, gave it some detailed prompts about that, that, oh, let's just say it wasn't kind. I mean it just said basically this part's boring and this part goes on way too long. And as a student I still don't know the practical things of A, B and C. But you know what, Misty M. I found that so helpful I was able to go and, and change it. And just like you said, in some ways I think it will be kind of a renaissance. Some services that families have not been able to afford to have, they will be able to have. You could have a tutor, whereas before you might have to pay for that services. And this is just going to see, I think, a shift in all of the industries that are happening. And that's what's happened before when we've had technological advances. Yes, there are some jobs that will be quote unquote lost to AI, so to speak, but it will create new jobs as well. And so we can look at that, you know, with innovation and wisdom. But you've given us some really practical guidelines around where to draw those boundaries. Now one thing you've talked about, Misty, is that, you know, this is, this is experimental. It, I've said it's a wild wild west and we are going to make mistakes. We are going to be deceived. Honestly, my kids told me, my kids are all like college age and high school age. And they said at first they could tell whatever was AI because AI was so bad, right? Like everybody had seven fingers or whatever it was. But they've told me now I can't tell the difference. It's really hard to tell the difference. And, and so that, that can be difficult, don't you think?
Misty Phillip Oh, absolutely. And
The technology is getting better every single day
the technology is getting better every single day. And you know, you talked about the speed, the velocity at, which this is moving we can't even wrap our minds around. And so that's why I always say you have got to be in the word of God. You have to know the word of God. It has to be in you. Because we don't. It's not always like these big bold face lies that come at us. It's like a lie with truth sprinkled in. But if you don't know the truth, you won't know. And because anybody can, can say anything on the Internet and then people can share it. And it doesn't mean that it's true. It might sound good, but that doesn't mean that it's true. And so you're right. We, we have to understand that. but the Bible talks about this. The Bible says that there's coming a time where we will be deceived. So we must be wise as serpents and gentlemen, as doves, and stay rooted and grounded in the word of God that is our anchor and walking with the Holy Spirit. Because the Lord will shelter us and shepherd us and, tell us in the way that we should go. If we trust in the Lord with all of our heart and lean not on our own understanding, in all of our ways, we follow Him. He will make our path straight. So that has got to be our lifeline because we are living in a day when we're not going to know what's real. And it's going to get really trippy too, when the reality robots start coming online. If you look at anything that Elon Musk is saying, because that's sort of the next progression of this. AI is then embodied AI, in robots and the advances in robotics. It's the same kind of thing. So they used to be very clunky and now they're doing martial arts and gymnastics and, and all kinds of crazy things. And so we're living in a, crazy amazing time. But God has chosen a us for such a time as this. He created us to live at this time on the kingdom calendar. We could have lived at any other time in all of history, yet he chose us, to be the ones to experience it. So we just need to be wise and to follow him, keep our eyes fixed on him and he is going to guide us through no matter what technology comes our way.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is so hopeful. And you just use my two favorite words together in the history of ever. But God and He has, he has created us for such a time as this and he is not surprised by any of these things. I want you to talk Misty M a little bit about having grace. When someone makes a mistake, when they give information, they should, so they shouldn't. When they fall for a scam, it feels like in my community police report every single week we see especially elderly people who are targeted and who are scammed using AI technologies. It's getting increasingly easier to manipulate people, to deceive people. We have children who are ill equipped for the wisdom that they need in ways to, to appropriately engage. How can we hold, hold truth and, and give and give correction and, and you know, all the things that we need to do, whether that's a parent, child relationship or guiding with, between our spouses or extended family. How do we have grace? Because I think it's a dangerous position to think, oh, I would never, that would never happen to me. How do we have grace in those moments? Because there's a lot of shame that can be piled on. And I know you've about talked, talked about this.
Misty Phillip Yeah, absolutely, you're right. We need so much grace. I just did a talk this past week to a group of mental health professionals and that was my exact talk to them. And it was an audience. There were, there were a lot of people, I would say, that were 60 plus and that young people and the elderly are the ones most likely to be scammed. And so I gave them some things to look out for. So you know, when you.
Phishing emails are something that we deal with a lot in cybersecurity
Phishing emails are something that we deal with a lot in cybersecurity. So that's an email that looks like it's from somebody or you can get, because you can capture that voice. You can get a three second call. it could be a grandparent being called by a grandchild and the child says, please don't tell mom and dad, I'm in trouble. Can you send me $500? It sounds just like your grandchild. And, you can easily be deceived. So first of all, have a family safe word. I think everybody a family safe word so that people know they can hang up the phone and call their person if they don't give that family safe word. But we need to understand this is a mental health issue because it does. The lasting effects of it are shame. my sister in law works, for her father's car lot and they called her on a Friday afternoon on a holiday weekend, said she needed to wire this money. She had a feeling in her gut, but she didn't follow it. And she wired the money and they did a smaller amount. They were going to do a larger amount the next time. But she was scammed out of thousands of dollars. And she came to us just so, it just affected her so much. And we, we had to say, you know, it's not you. These are professionals who are using AI. They're bad actors and they are using it and they are targeting business, businesses, families. So we have to be, we have to be wise about that. And so I think one of the best things people can do, like I said, have that family safe word that you create, so that everybody knows, that can help protect a lot of people. It can go a long ways.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's great advice and one of the things that you've done in your ministry and your business. Misty, you talked earlier about your son's abilities, which is great. And you shared with me during the break that he actually created an app to go along with your book. And you have resources for families who are thinking, you know what, I know they're listening right now thinking, we really haven't talked about this. And let me tell you, this might be a great topic of conversation to have at Thanksgiving at the holidays maybe instead of the election. Is that too soon? Okay, that's too soon. But Misty M. You do have some, some resources there for families and they do need to have this conversation.
Misty Phillip Yeah, absolutely. We, we made some cards that have open ended questions that they can talk to their family about. Like when you have a problem, where do you go to for information? those kinds of things. So it really opens up that dialogue and to give parents the opportunity to talk to their, to their kids about it. but I'm really excited.
So I went to the missional AI conference which is all of the people in Silicon Valley and around the globe that are using AI for good for things like Bible translation
So I went to the Missional AI conference which is all of the people in Silicon Valley and around the globe that are using AI for good for things like Bible translation. Well when I was there the U version app was there and they use can now build an app on the YouVersion app. And so I came home to my or actually I called him while I was still in California and I said can you make me an app for my book? Because there are people that will download an app and will read the content, that won't pick up a book and read it. And really that's what I wanted, wanted to create that app for. And so I partnered with my son, he made the app, it's available on the app Store to download and it basically walks you through all of the themes in the Trojan Horse of the Digital age. And it has ah, scripture that goes with it and you can click into the YouVersion Bible and read it in context in the whole chapter. So would love for people to download that and they can go to my, my website, Misty M. Philip and get those those cards, those conversation cards to start having those conversations with their family.
Dr. Jessica Peck Misty, thank you so much. This is such a great conversation and a conversation that I, hope is happening in your home. You can go again, as she said, to mistyphillip m.com you can get the books the Trojan Horse of the Digital Age. Why Christians Must Discern AI and Upskill Or Die Thriving in the AI Revolution. And I'll tell you, I follow Misty's newsletter and even this week she talked not about bitcoin but about a different kind of coin. I'm even looking because I had to write it down. I didn't even know what it was. And it is there. So if you want to know stablecoin, that's what it is. Stablecoin. If you want to know all things AI, get plugged in. And as you pray for wisdom and discernment, I pray the same for you. And I pray as I always do, that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and has seen over 100,000 commitments to Christ. Will you join PreBorn in continuing this good work? supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com/AFR
Jeff Chamblee the views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Dr. Jessica Peck We would like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, PreBorn. When a mother meets her baby on ultrasound and hears their heartbeat, it's a divine connection. And the majority of the time she will choose life. But they can't do it without our help. Preborn needs us, the pro life community, to come alongside them. One ultrasound is just $28. To donate, dial pound 250 and say the keyword baby or visit preborn.com/AFR friend we're living in a defining moment today. A woman facing an unexpected pregnancy can order the abortion pill online, often before anyone has the chance to tell her she is loved, that she's not alone, or that there is hope. That's why you are needed right now. You were made for this moment. At PreBorn Network clinics, mothers are welcomed with compassion, practical support and a free ultrasound. And when she sees her baby and hears that tiny heartbeat for the very first time, fear often gives way to hope. In fact, more than 80% of abortion vulnerable women choose life after seeing their baby on an ultrasound at a PreBorn Network clinic. That one moment can save a baby's life and open a mother's heart to the hope of Jesus Christ. This is our moment to stand. For those who cannot speak for themselves. Just $28 provides one life saving ultrasound. $140 helps rescue five babies. Please don't wait. Dial pound 250 and say the keyword best baby. That's pound 250 baby. If you're a business owner, would you consider a larger donation to claim a write off? Your best gift would be appreciated. A stand alone gift of $15,000 will sponsor an ultrasound machine for a needy clinic helping to save countless babies lives for years to come. All gifts are tax- deductible. Together we can save lives one heartbeat at a time. preborn.com/AFR hello and welcome to the Dr. Nurse Mama show prescribing hope for healthy families here on American Family Radio. Here's your host, professor, pediatric nurse practitioner and mom of four, Dr. Jessica Peek.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well hey there friends and welcome to my favorite time of day. I'm so eager to spend time with you today talking about a really important topic. We're going to talk about al today if you listen to my show. You know that's what my mother in law calls AI because in print it looks like a big A and a little I but it a little L but it is really artificial intelligence or super intelligence. And the world is changing so, so quickly. I think about how I've been talking for the last Decade about families living at the speed of a smartphone. And a smartphone looks like, you know, the Pony Express compared to AI. And families are really being asked to make decisions about technology faster than most of us can understand it. Our kids understand it faster than we do. We can't anticipate risk like we could in a world before AI. We know how to anticipate risk and driving and crossing the street and the things that we all learned how to do. But we can't anticipate risk in a world that we're just not fast enough to keep up with. A student can generate an essay now in seconds. The capability of AI is astounding. I know this. In higher education, we're talking about capacity for students to create avatars that come to class and look like they're attending class or autonomously answer their emails or. Or do their assignments for them. A parent can ask a chatbot for guidance about a difficult relationship, which is not something that I recommend doing, that needs to be reserved for real humans with biblical wisdom. But a convincing voice or video can make something fabricated feel very trustworthy. Did you know that AI only needs a couple of seconds of your voice to make a complete clone of your vocabulary? This is wreaking havoc in the world. And adults are also wondering, how is AI going to change their jobs? How do we educate our kids for the future of AI? Young people are trying to prepare for careers whose expectations are abruptly shifting, especially those who may be in college thinking, what does this mean? Now, underneath all of these questions and these real practical applications is something deeply personal. Who and what are we learning to trust? Because our culture often measures progress by what becomes faster and easier and more efficient. But family life reminds us that the best things in life are grow slowly and not easily. Children learn discernment by wrestling with issues, relationships deepened through conflict and rupture and repair, disagreement and forgiveness. Faith grows as we practice our spiritual disciplines. We pray, we study scripture, we practice obedience, and we walk alongside other believers. Technology is taking on more of those tasks, even generating prayers, which I also don't recommend because there's no Holy Spirit in AI. We really need to be intentional in considering which responsibilities are helping form our character and which shouldn't be outsourced to an algorithm or to AI. Now, today's guest knows this world very well. I'm joined today by Misty Phillip. She's an author, she's a speaker, she's a media expert, she's a podcast host. She is co founder and chief operating officer at Trilogy Works. This is an advisory firm specializing in cybersecurity and AI. She founded Spark Media. She spent more than 20 years homeschooling her three boys. Her background brings together technology, Christian communication, and the everyday work of raising a family, which I love, and you can see why I want her perspective. She has two books I think are really must reads, the Trojan Horse of the Digital Age, and Upskill or Die. And she's here today to help us, discern AI in a world that seems anything but discerning. Misty I'm so glad to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us.
Misty Phillip Thank you so much for having me on. I've been looking forward to this conversation.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, Misty, why don't you just introduce yourself to our listeners?
Talk about how do you go from homeschooling mom to really treading the world?
Talk about how do you go from homeschooling mom to really treading the world? The. The hallways of the upper echelon of discussions that are happening right now about cyber security and AI in our country?
Misty Phillip Well, I can tell you it was not my plan, but God has a way of moving and guiding us. So, you know, I went from homeschooling. My kids started to grow up, and I realized I needed to mother them, not smother them, and that I needed something to do or I was gonna drive them crazy. So I started writing, speaking, podcasting. That led to my journey with Spark Media, and I did that faithfully for about five years. I was teaching people how to podcast, ministering to people all around the world through podcasting. You know, during Cove when. When the. The church doors were closed, I was equipping people to share the gospel online, and it was an incredible journey. But I started to get really burned out. And my husband and I were talking about what the next several years look like. And my husband's been in technology our entire marriage over 30 years, and he's really a technical expert. And he said, why don't you quit your company and come work with me? And I went, what? You want me to do? What? So I was actually. I wrote another book that I'd been working on for about five years. I went to NewSong York, and the book was on Times Square Big, you know, Life Size Me and my book. Well, it coincided with, Tech Week in NewSong York. And before that, I was kind of on the fence. I was like, what am I going to do? I don't really know tech. And I went to a Faith in AI event that night, and there were all of these believers that work at all of the major, companies, and they were really excited about al. They were excited about this technology. But really, even though they were believers, they weren't asking hard questions. I raised my kids through social media, video games, the Internet. I saw some places that we just really as parents overall didn't do a good job and kind of the unexpected consequences of raising kids through technology and felt like we've got to ask more questions and we've got to do a better job job. So I went back to my hotel that night and I realized God had moved me for such a time as this because I'm a wife, because I'm a mom, because of those concerns, because of my biblical background. and so here I am, you know, working alongside my husband, helping enterprise clients develop AI policies and to use AI effectively within their organization and keeping it secure, making sure their cyber security is top notch. And so that has definitely opened the door for me to be in all kinds of rooms that I never expected.
Dr. Jessica Peck Well, you said, you said three words together, faith and AI, which seem like they are so disparate. And what I see misty, is, you know, this kind of divergence and, and that happens usually after the introduction of any new technology. We saw it after the smartphone. I know for me, the first time I encountered a smartphone, one of my nursing students had one. I had my, my drug guide book, you know, and it dog eared and highlighted and, and he had a smartphone. And I said, what is that? And he said, it's a smartphone. And I said, you can't look up information on that. And he said, want to race? And at the end of that conversation, he looked at my phone and said, that's a dumb phone. And I got a smartphone that day because I recognize the potential. But we have this divergence where we have people who are just running as fast as they can, just saying what is possible? Like, let's go. There's, it's almost like an arms race. It's an AI race. And then you have people saying, absolutely not. I will not do it. This has kinds of implications for humans and creating and the art of, you know, that comes from your soul. But there I find that there's not enough people in the middle of that faith and AI acknowledging the reality of the technology that's here. As much as we would like to go back to Little House on the Prairie days, that's not happening. But we also, how do we engage responsibly? And what do you see as the landscape of that space in the middle, that faith and AI, where those two places meet?
Misty Phillip Yeah. So I call it a both hand. I mean, because. And you're right, there are people. And I call those people that are, like, running. They're running with scissors, right? That can be really dangerous because they're running ahead with this technology without asking questions. I see another group of people, and they're afraid because they're afraid of what they don't know. And I think the answer is somewhere there in between. God chose us to live here for such a time as this. Just like back in the printing press. If Martin Luther.
If Martin Luther had not been faithful to do what he did, and if they hadn't embraced the printing press, we wouldn't have books or Bibles today
had not been faithful to do what he did, and if they hadn't embraced the printing press, we wouldn't have books or Bibles today. So people at that time, they were afraid of it. Same kind of thing. So I think that as believers, we need to steward the technology wisely. That means asking a lot of really great questions and then setting boundaries personally for our families, for our workplaces. And I am a proponent of AI. I think it can be an incredible tool. Tool to be used, to do all kinds of work for the kingdom. It can help busy moms to be more productive so that we can spend time on the things that really matter. For. For example, when I was podcasting full time, it would take me forever to. Once we recorded the interview, to. Then I'd listen through the whole interview again, so I could write down all the show notes, and I'd type them all out, making sure I had everything. Now you can drop an episode, and that's all AI and, as well, you know, drop that episode in there. You get a full transcript, you get show notes. Then I can go in there and tweak it and add what I want to add and change what I want to change. But it took something that was really laborious for me and can do it in seconds. And then that frees me up to do all kinds of things. So I think it's in the way that we approach it. We have to understand it's a tool. You know, people do name their AI assistants, and that anthropomorphizes it. I'm not saying that. Right. Anthropomorphizes it. So we think. Think it's like human. We think that AI knows us, but it's not. We don't talk to our PowerPoint like that. We don't talk to our. Our word like that. So why would we do that with this technology? It is a tool, and it can. Can be used for lots of great administrative tasks. But I agree with you completely what you said in the opening. It should not Replace the things that are meant for humans. It should not be our counselor, it should not be our pastor. It should not be our par. Are, it should not be our friend. We shouldn't be going to AI for friendship. I like to, to look at it as a tool that can help us, multiply our time in all kinds of ways. But it's a tool at the end of the day,
Dr. Jessica Peck Misty, such great perspective. So I don't want to run with scissors, but I don't want to be frozen with fear either. I really want to engage in the middle and I think it's hard to do that. It's hard to either kind of slow down from the things that you think like, okay, this is progress. It's hard to speed up you. The places where you think, I'm not sure where this is. And one of the things, you know, you're talking about AI being a tool, which it absolutely is. One of the things that I've seen change from a smartphone is a smartphone was really neutral and it depended on user input. You had to guide it. You know, you were telling it which sites you wanted to go to and, and it was really kind of static in that way. We saw of course, the web 2.0 where we had user generated content and that's where we've seen go when we have this two sided place. But the algorithm is really shaping our worldview in a way that we haven't seen before from other more passive forms of media. And it is a tool, but it requires I think even an increased level of discernment and wisdom as we engage with that. Because if we don't and we just let it kind of wash over us, it's telling us what shows to watch and even, you know, disturbingly personally, on my iPhone, I see, you know, I'm texting my kids and it's prompting me what to say. And I'm thinking, I don't care if that prompt just says like, hey, how are you? Like, I feel like I want it to come from me. So can you talk a little bit more about being intentional, looking around to see the ways that AI might be influencing your worldview without you be even aware of it.
Misty Phillip Oh, this is such a great question. It is impacting us in so many ways that we do not realize, you know, it's embedded in social media. So it is affecting we see who we're friends with. Like you said that the things that we watch, the things that we see.
The problem with AI is that it knows us because of all the data that we have given to the Internet about ourselves, all the data that we have given social media about ourselves
The problem with AI is that it knows us because of all the data that we have given to the Internet about ourselves, all the data that we have given social media about ourselves. And so where these other passive, you know, social media was, a little bit different. It didn't know us the way that AI knows us. And so from the ads that you see, all of the, everything that you put into an AI. First of all, if you're using an AI, a generative AI model like a ChatGPT, or, any of those models, Claude or anthropic or any of them, you're putting in more data points. All of that data is being, saved on a server somewhere. And it is, it is creating a profile on you so that it knows what you like before you even know it knows. If you like these things, then you're probably going to like, like these things. And so you have to be really careful. It's really interesting. My husband is not even.
Dr. Jessica Peck Hold on, I'm gonna find you right
Misty Phillip there.
Dr. Jessica Peck I'm gonna hold you right there, Misty, because I want to hear all of this. We're already at our first break. I could talk about this all day, every day because I see it changing the world like in dog years. It is just amazing, the, the, the quickness, the speed at which it's happening. So I want to hear about your husband who is in AI and cybersecurity, about how he's on Facebook. We have lots more to talk about with Misty. What you should know, how you should guide your families to be wise and discerning in this age. We'll be right back with Misty Phillip. Hello, I'm Jessica peck, host of Dr. Nurse Mama. Ah. Did you know that this content is listener supported. Without people like you, this podcast would not exist. And that's why we need you. A Generous monthly gift of any amount will help sustain American Family Radio and specifically this podcast. Please consider becoming a monthly financial partner today by visiting afr.net/give that's afr.net/give
Fight On My Knees by Evan Craft You might not know it, but somebody's been praying for this very moment. Feels like a whisper but in heaven it's loud oh, don't give up don't give up on the ones you love oh, just a little faith is enough help me to remember My help comes from heaven God, when I surrender I find all I need Strength in every weakness in the, name of, Jesus, always try to seek and I find all my knees I fight on
Dr. Jessica Peck my knees. Welcome back, friends. That is Fight on My Knees by Evan Craft. And that feels like my daily posture here I'm praying all the time. In a world that is just full of chaos. Today, we're talking about the chaos that is artificial intelligence, or super intelligence, as you may have heard it called. We're talking to expert Misty Phillip She's author of two books that are really insightful. One is called the Trojan Horse of the Digital Age. Why Christians Must Discern AI and Upskill Or Die Thriving in the AI Revolution. And we've been talking about how AI is really a reality that families need to wake up and be intentional in dealing with. And before the break, Misty M. You were just about to share, you were continuing to share your experience in this and. And really looking at the personalization of AI and how it's influencing our worldview and how it retains all of the data that we give it. It does not ever go away. And you were just about to tell us about something in your husband not being on Facebook. So I'll give it to you right there. There.
Misty Phillip Yeah. So my husband's not on Facebook, but he's been searching for some things online. And now I'm getting ads on my Facebook, which I'm like, how does. How do they know that? I mean, you've probably been in a conversation with someone and heard a word or said a word, and then the next thing you know, that comes up. But, I find it interesting. These are things that we haven't talked about. And I don't know if it's because of our proximity. I don't understand how it all works. I just know that everything that we say and do online in a search engine, it's all being stored, it's all being tracked. And they are, they know, you know, who my husband is. They know, our relationship. And so it's just very interesting that that is happening to everybody everywhere. And, you know, it's also creating a little bit of a surveillance state. So, you know, there's a camera on every corner. Every time you drive through a toll booth, your phone is constantly updating. I know somebody I just heard a story of, they had, an app on their phone that they didn't realize that was in real time tracking them every two minutes. And so she kept going to places and somebody was. She had a stalker that would show up and follow her, and somehow that app had gotten on her phone. So we really have to be diligent about our technology. What we're allowing in. The whole. Whole theme of the Trojan horse is they accepted this gift, thinking it's a gift. and they. They Wheeled it right in and they didn't ask any questions like, who built this? What's inside of it? what, what's the impact of it? And they threw a big party and, and it was their demise. So I think we need to be asking questions about, who built it.
We have to understand that AI is not neutral. It does have a worldview baked into it because it's been trained on the Internet
We have to understand that AI is not neutral. It does have a worldview baked into it because it's been trained on the Internet. And the people who have created these tech giants that have created all of these different AIs, none of them are believers and they have an agenda as well. So we, we can't look at it like it's neutral. And so we have to have our gates up and we have to guard what we're allowing in.
Dr. Jessica Peck You're right in that we, we. It's not neutral and we need to ask wise questions. And I fear Misty that just become so callous to technology in our lives. So if you're downloading an app, no one reads the legal disclaimer that you scroll through. You just scroll through to the bottom and you check the box.
Misty Phillip Except my husband. Except my husband. He needs to teach us in cyber security. Yes. And, and that's why he would never allow me to have a TikTok account. He read the EULA, that's the short term for that user agreement. And he read it and he was like, absolutely not. I, never want you on there because you're giving permission for them to have access apps like your banking app. People probably don't know that because they don't read it. They just, they want the app and they check it. And that's so dangerous because. And they're constantly upgrading them and sneaking more things in into them. So we really have to be wise.
Dr. Jessica Peck It is good to hear that from you because I, I think we just click the button. You don't know the rights that you are signing away and the rights for them to have your pictures, to use your pictures and like you said, have access to all kinds of personal information. We need to wake and be more intentional. And much like the story you were talking about earlier, many of these apps, especially social media apps, the default setting is public. Is to let people have access to your location tracking. And we're seeing in young people an increase in cyber stalking because it's also normal to share your location with your friends. I mean, I'm amazed at how many young people will just open up, oh, let me see where my friend is. And they just know their every move. But that to me tells us that we're just becoming desensitized to having that kind of surveillance state where we're just videoed everywhere, everywhere we go, everything is surveilled. And that's something that families need to wake up to.
Do you have any other advice, any other practical advice on ways that we can be more intentional and aware of the technology interfaces that we're encountering?
Do you have any other advice, any other practical advice on ways that we can be more intentional and aware of the technology interfaces that we're encountering?
Misty Phillip Yeah, so for, families with small children, I, I wouldn't put pictures of my kids online. I know that it started off as this way to communicate with family. You have other ways to send them pictures. Do that. Don't post pictures of your kids. You might be really proud that they did something really good. Talk about it. But that image, you can take that image and three seconds of audio and create a deep fake of them doing all kinds of things. And, and there are things that I wouldn't even say on this program. Very nefarious things are being done with children's images. So I would start there. Don't put your kids pictures on. If your kids are older, you really need to know what apps are on their phone, how they're communicating, what they're communicating. and you have to model good discernment for them. You know, just limiting their time on their phones or their devices is not enough. We really need to teach them to have biblical wisdom, to teach them to have discernment. They need the word of God in there so that. In. In themselves, so that it will come out of them and they can judge things rightly. we need to set up good boundaries with our technology and, and we have to model that for our. So we can't just say, hey, you know, I don't want you to be on your phone. And then we pick up our phones. Right. So I think that it's, you know, we don't have to be perfect parents, but we do need to be present and, and guiding and showing our kids in the way that they should go. That is that discipleship. It starts in the morning. It's at noon. That's based on those verses in Deuteronomy. It's the Shema. It's what we do all day long. And so, so more is caught than taught. So we can tell them to do these things, but if we're not modeling it for them, they're going to think that we're a, hypocrite. Or they're going to do, what we do, not what we tell them to do. Right?
Dr. Jessica Peck Yeah, absolutely. Misty, you're singing from my songbook here. Because this is exactly what I'm saying to families all day, every day. And in my profession and health professions, we're studying that and even coming up with vocabulary for it. I've talked about it on this show here before about a phenomenon called fubbing, which is phone snub it. We have validated scales that we can measure the impact that has on relationships and children because we are, you know, we somehow make our. Justify our own phone use, but, you know, minimize theirs. And we've got to be modeling that digital discernment, that digital discipleship, which is really important. And it's all about relationships. Misty, that that's really what you're saying. And I want to talk more in moving. And another area to be very discerning is about letting your kids, kids engage with AI companions. Now, we saw in the wake of Covid 19, a mental health crisis that was declared by many, many, public health organizations, many healthcare organizations, federal government, even. I agree with, with their, with their assessment. There's also a loneliness epidemic. And those effects are still persisting, even though no one wants to talk about Cove And we've moved on. It really injured a generation of children especially. And one of the things I'm concerned about is how compelling companion AIs are. And I. The first time in modern American history where we've had real competition for that relationship with parenting. Because the AI chatbots, the companions, they don't forget things. They're trained to please you. They're really downright sycophantic, honestly. It is experimental. If you review in the terms of use, it says it is experimental. And bad things can happen, but they're always there, and they can contradict parents, and you can personalize it so much. The accent you want, the gender you want, the name you want, the personality you want. What do parents need to know and wake up about this and be intentional in guiding their kids to make real relationships more compelling than artificial ones.
Misty Phillip Yeah, I'm so glad that you talk about this. This. I cannot overemphasize the importance of this. And it starts really young because now they're putting AIs into little toys. And we're seeing it from the toys all the way through, you know, to teens and everything. And you're right. This is the most lone, anxious generation. And now, AI is telling it how, how much it knows that person and that it's its friend. And all of that is. That's very, very dangerous. So first of all, we, we have to get them, off their phones, off their devices and in real community with other people. Sadly, I was driving down the road the other day and I passed a soccer field and there was this group of teenagers prob, and I kid you not, they were a group. They should have been hanging out and laughing and talking as they're walking on this track. And they all had phones in their hands and they're all looking down. So they're all looking at something else while they're in real community. So we need to create device free times that of community. So whether that is in a church, whether that is in a sport, whatever your family enjoys, family game night, like put your phones in a box and everybody hang out and provide those opportunities for real face to face communication. Because you're right, that is so important. Especially because the AI acts like it knows us. It acts like it's our friend. But we've seen where it has caused, caused harm up until death to people. And you're right, it is sycophantic. So it tells you not what you need to hear but what you want to hear. And so you don't always want to hear the rules that your parents make. Right. As a kid. Yeah, but we need those because those boundaries keep us safe. So if an AI is telling us things that are unsafe, it's not good. And parents do need to be aware how their kids are using AI, right. Look at their history. Not only that though, talk to them about how they use AI, how, how they, how the parent uses AI, how their kids can use it as a tool. Because if you don't give them the guidelines and boundaries, they are going to use it. But teach them that it's not good for relationship and make sure you're looking at that history on their computer or their phone so that you know what kind of conversations they're engaging in. But that begins with you know, being present and open ended conversation and then asking them how they're using it and then modeling for them. Good use.
Dr. Jessica Peck One of the phrases that I hear so often that's just become normalized in family life today is get off your phone, get off your phone, get off your phone. And you said earlier Misty, in the first place segment, you know, both and, and that's where I think we're missing out on that. Get off your phone. It's get off your phone and get into real relationship. It there has to be a, ah, following of an invitation to engage in real relationship and real community that's more compelling than the Artificial community that's online. And what we see is kids who are desperate for connection. And yet our first instinct when we punish them is to take away what they see as their primary means of connection. And then we wonder why it doesn't work and why they're so angry about that they are crying out. Every nerve in their brain is just craving connection, and we need to step in and meet that need. And one of the things that, I'm concerned about is that connection that they have to the AI chatbot and all of the personal information that they put in there. Because they don't have discernment, they're pouring out their heart. They may say, your whole family history. They may be putting information like their birth date or their, you know, location or where they are or their deepest, darkest feelings that are maybe being used even to train another model that, are can be publicly discoverable.
What kind of boundaries do you think for both for security and just relationship thriving need to be on the information that you put into an AI companion or chatbot?
What kind of boundaries do you think for both for security and just relationship thriving, need to be on the information that you put into an AI companion or chatbot?
Misty Phillip Yeah, this is so good. I say do not put anything into an AI model that you are not comfortable standing on a stage with a microphone in your hand, with millions of people in the audience. If you are comfortable saying that, and knowing that it's going to remember long after you've forgotten that you said it, then go for it. Right? We should not put any personal identifying information. Do not share your deepest, darkest secrets. Because like I said earlier, it's all being tracked, it's all being stored, and it will be used against you, whether that's in marketing or some other way. it is another data point being collected on you. So I think that the good use is looking at it like it is a tool that can be used to help us do activities, that will make us more productive. But never as a counselor, never as a friend, and never put, Like I had a friend who put all of her health information. And, this becomes a little, complex because I know that, that health agencies, hospitals, doctors offices are using a form of AI, but they're not using, an open model. So we need to differentiate there. But she took what her doctor said and put it into an AI model. And I'm like, would you stand on the stage and tell everybody what you're going through in your health? Like, why would you do that? And, and it looks helpful, but we have to think about what the potential harms are of that data being leaked, of it being stored, and how it could possibly be used against us.
Dr. Jessica Peck Those are very serious things to think about, but a way that we can be wise and discerning in a digital age. And it is. It just feels like a wild wild west out there, Misty. It really does. And I'm so grateful for people like you who are willing to step into this space and to create some boundaries. I encourage you to talk about these things with your families. It may seem like a no brainer, but we're all learning. And we'll learn some more with Misty Phillip right on the other side of this break. Doctor Ligon Duncan from the American Family Studios documentary the God who Speaks
Dr. Ligon Duncan The Bible is inspired because its nature is the self revelation of God. In other words, the authority of the Bible is the authority of God. Behind your doctrine of scripture is a doctrine of God. The product of scripture is the activity of God. The Scripture is the product of God the Holy Spirit, which is why God, the Holy Spirit uses it in conversion and in sanctification. So what we believe about the Bible is based on what we believe about its source. And because we believe God to be the author of the Bible, we talk about the quality of the Bible as inspired or God breathed. Visit thegodwhospeaks.org
Heart of the Father by Ryan Ellis I've never known, a love like yours. so intimate, so powerful and I've tasted, I've seen and nothing comes close. I've never known a love like yours Jesus, your name is power, breath and living water. And your spirit guides, me to the heart of the Father. Letting your praise ring louder every day and every hour. Cause your spirit guides me to the heart of the Father.
Dr. Jessica Peck Welcome back friends. That's Heart of the Father by Ryan Ellis. And I'm so grateful that we can run to the heart of the Father when it feels like the world is overwhelming and the world is changing so fast with the advances from artificial intelligence and we see AI everywhere. I'm talking today to someone who knows this world very well. She is walking this world to help share wisdom with us on a daily basis. I'm so grateful for that. We're talking to Misty Phillip. She is author of the Trojan Horse of the Digital Age. Why Christians Must Discern AI and Upskill Or Die Thriving in the AI revolution. These are the two resources she had. We're going to talk about some of her other resources that she has in just a minute, including an app she made with her son. But before we go there, I want to finish the conversation that we are having here. And if you're Listening in the things that we've said is, hey, wake up and realize how much AI is already impacting your family life. Draw your family together, have a family convo and say, how is AI impacting our life? And where do we need to put some boundaries in there? Some of the boundaries Misty and I have talked about is not putting your personal information into any chatbot that includes medical information or personal information, treating it like it's a counselor, drawing boundaries around that. And Misty You draw a very firm boundary around the. I think it's a clear way to see this spiritual and relational responsibilities is. That is for humans. But there are some things that can be for preparation, for administration, for just practical things. Much like you talked about helping with your podcast where it tell. Tell us a little bit more about that boundary and how we can set those boundaries in place.
Misty Phillip Well, I love, I love how you broke that down, because that's exactly how I use it. I. I am not afraid of AI. I do use AI. I am careful not to put, you know, personal information in there, but I use it for administrative tasks. Like when I go to speak, I'll put my talk in there and then I'll let it create the PowerPoints for me. Because my audience doesn't care if I, create the PowerPoint or it's created by somebody else. Right. Something else. And so I allow AI to do that. So I never look at an AI model and go, you know, I'm feeling kind of sad today. I wonder what AI is going to say. I don't ever look at it in a relational way, ever. I mean, that's just a hard and fast rule I look at it for. How can it help me to be more productive? How can it. It's really great at research. what. How can it help me? Like, when we take on a new client, I'll have IT research the client. It'll pull tons of data that would take me a long time to read. And it can summarize it. Right before I, go into an interview, let's say I'm interviewing with somebody new. Or, just there's so many ways that it can be used for good. Bible translators are using it to translate all of the Bible. I mean, there's so many great ways that we can steward this technology for good. and I think that, I'm actually working on my next book, and my next book is talking about, you need to have an AI apologetic before you write an AI policy. So I've been asked to speak on Creating an AI policy for an organization and I think this translates to personal lives and to family lives as well. You can't write a policy or come up with the rules, unless you know what you believe about it and why. And for me I think that starts with education, understanding, understanding what AI is, what it isn't, what it's capable of, and then creating those are those own boundaries for ourselves. So, you know, the way you use AI may be different than the way I use AI and that's okay. We need to come up with the way that we use it. So I have a son that is, he's an adult. he was a podcast producer and he and used AI to basically work himself out of a job by doing all of the editing and making the social media clips. But he doesn't send anything to his clients until he has overseen all of it. but now people that can't afford to have a full time producer have his wisdom and knowledge of being a producer for five years of audio editing and video editing. And so there's so much, many great ways that we can use it. And I think if we're just wise, just using wisdom and setting boundaries for ourself first and then for our company, our family and and so on.
Dr. Jessica Peck I'm so glad to hear you say that. I mean, I use it differently than you do and my role as a professor, I can have it critique my lectures. I remember the first time I put one of my lectures into AI and I said critique this from a student perspective. And then I, you know, gave it some detailed prompts about that, that, oh, let's just say it wasn't kind. I mean it just said basically this part's boring and this part goes on way too long. And as a student I still don't know the practical things of A, B and C. But you know what, Misty M. I found that so helpful I was able to go and, and change it. And just like you said, in some ways I think it will be kind of a renaissance. Some services that families have not been able to afford to have, they will be able to have. You could have a tutor, whereas before you might have to pay for that services. And this is just going to see, I think, a shift in all of the industries that are happening. And that's what's happened before when we've had technological advances. Yes, there are some jobs that will be quote unquote lost to AI, so to speak, but it will create new jobs as well. And so we can look at that, you know, with innovation and wisdom. But you've given us some really practical guidelines around where to draw those boundaries. Now one thing you've talked about, Misty, is that, you know, this is, this is experimental. It, I've said it's a wild wild west and we are going to make mistakes. We are going to be deceived. Honestly, my kids told me, my kids are all like college age and high school age. And they said at first they could tell whatever was AI because AI was so bad, right? Like everybody had seven fingers or whatever it was. But they've told me now I can't tell the difference. It's really hard to tell the difference. And, and so that, that can be difficult, don't you think?
Misty Phillip Oh, absolutely. And
The technology is getting better every single day
the technology is getting better every single day. And you know, you talked about the speed, the velocity at, which this is moving we can't even wrap our minds around. And so that's why I always say you have got to be in the word of God. You have to know the word of God. It has to be in you. Because we don't. It's not always like these big bold face lies that come at us. It's like a lie with truth sprinkled in. But if you don't know the truth, you won't know. And because anybody can, can say anything on the Internet and then people can share it. And it doesn't mean that it's true. It might sound good, but that doesn't mean that it's true. And so you're right. We, we have to understand that. but the Bible talks about this. The Bible says that there's coming a time where we will be deceived. So we must be wise as serpents and gentlemen, as doves, and stay rooted and grounded in the word of God that is our anchor and walking with the Holy Spirit. Because the Lord will shelter us and shepherd us and, tell us in the way that we should go. If we trust in the Lord with all of our heart and lean not on our own understanding, in all of our ways, we follow Him. He will make our path straight. So that has got to be our lifeline because we are living in a day when we're not going to know what's real. And it's going to get really trippy too, when the reality robots start coming online. If you look at anything that Elon Musk is saying, because that's sort of the next progression of this. AI is then embodied AI, in robots and the advances in robotics. It's the same kind of thing. So they used to be very clunky and now they're doing martial arts and gymnastics and, and all kinds of crazy things. And so we're living in a, crazy amazing time. But God has chosen a us for such a time as this. He created us to live at this time on the kingdom calendar. We could have lived at any other time in all of history, yet he chose us, to be the ones to experience it. So we just need to be wise and to follow him, keep our eyes fixed on him and he is going to guide us through no matter what technology comes our way.
Dr. Jessica Peck That is so hopeful. And you just use my two favorite words together in the history of ever. But God and He has, he has created us for such a time as this and he is not surprised by any of these things. I want you to talk Misty M a little bit about having grace. When someone makes a mistake, when they give information, they should, so they shouldn't. When they fall for a scam, it feels like in my community police report every single week we see especially elderly people who are targeted and who are scammed using AI technologies. It's getting increasingly easier to manipulate people, to deceive people. We have children who are ill equipped for the wisdom that they need in ways to, to appropriately engage. How can we hold, hold truth and, and give and give correction and, and you know, all the things that we need to do, whether that's a parent, child relationship or guiding with, between our spouses or extended family. How do we have grace? Because I think it's a dangerous position to think, oh, I would never, that would never happen to me. How do we have grace in those moments? Because there's a lot of shame that can be piled on. And I know you've about talked, talked about this.
Misty Phillip Yeah, absolutely, you're right. We need so much grace. I just did a talk this past week to a group of mental health professionals and that was my exact talk to them. And it was an audience. There were, there were a lot of people, I would say, that were 60 plus and that young people and the elderly are the ones most likely to be scammed. And so I gave them some things to look out for. So you know, when you.
Phishing emails are something that we deal with a lot in cybersecurity
Phishing emails are something that we deal with a lot in cybersecurity. So that's an email that looks like it's from somebody or you can get, because you can capture that voice. You can get a three second call. it could be a grandparent being called by a grandchild and the child says, please don't tell mom and dad, I'm in trouble. Can you send me $500? It sounds just like your grandchild. And, you can easily be deceived. So first of all, have a family safe word. I think everybody a family safe word so that people know they can hang up the phone and call their person if they don't give that family safe word. But we need to understand this is a mental health issue because it does. The lasting effects of it are shame. my sister in law works, for her father's car lot and they called her on a Friday afternoon on a holiday weekend, said she needed to wire this money. She had a feeling in her gut, but she didn't follow it. And she wired the money and they did a smaller amount. They were going to do a larger amount the next time. But she was scammed out of thousands of dollars. And she came to us just so, it just affected her so much. And we, we had to say, you know, it's not you. These are professionals who are using AI. They're bad actors and they are using it and they are targeting business, businesses, families. So we have to be, we have to be wise about that. And so I think one of the best things people can do, like I said, have that family safe word that you create, so that everybody knows, that can help protect a lot of people. It can go a long ways.
Dr. Jessica Peck That's great advice and one of the things that you've done in your ministry and your business. Misty, you talked earlier about your son's abilities, which is great. And you shared with me during the break that he actually created an app to go along with your book. And you have resources for families who are thinking, you know what, I know they're listening right now thinking, we really haven't talked about this. And let me tell you, this might be a great topic of conversation to have at Thanksgiving at the holidays maybe instead of the election. Is that too soon? Okay, that's too soon. But Misty M. You do have some, some resources there for families and they do need to have this conversation.
Misty Phillip Yeah, absolutely. We, we made some cards that have open ended questions that they can talk to their family about. Like when you have a problem, where do you go to for information? those kinds of things. So it really opens up that dialogue and to give parents the opportunity to talk to their, to their kids about it. but I'm really excited.
So I went to the missional AI conference which is all of the people in Silicon Valley and around the globe that are using AI for good for things like Bible translation
So I went to the Missional AI conference which is all of the people in Silicon Valley and around the globe that are using AI for good for things like Bible translation. Well when I was there the U version app was there and they use can now build an app on the YouVersion app. And so I came home to my or actually I called him while I was still in California and I said can you make me an app for my book? Because there are people that will download an app and will read the content, that won't pick up a book and read it. And really that's what I wanted, wanted to create that app for. And so I partnered with my son, he made the app, it's available on the app Store to download and it basically walks you through all of the themes in the Trojan Horse of the Digital age. And it has ah, scripture that goes with it and you can click into the YouVersion Bible and read it in context in the whole chapter. So would love for people to download that and they can go to my, my website, Misty M. Philip and get those those cards, those conversation cards to start having those conversations with their family.
Dr. Jessica Peck Misty, thank you so much. This is such a great conversation and a conversation that I, hope is happening in your home. You can go again, as she said, to mistyphillip m.com you can get the books the Trojan Horse of the Digital Age. Why Christians Must Discern AI and Upskill Or Die Thriving in the AI Revolution. And I'll tell you, I follow Misty's newsletter and even this week she talked not about bitcoin but about a different kind of coin. I'm even looking because I had to write it down. I didn't even know what it was. And it is there. So if you want to know stablecoin, that's what it is. Stablecoin. If you want to know all things AI, get plugged in. And as you pray for wisdom and discernment, I pray the same for you. And I pray as I always do, that the Lord will bless you and keep you and make his face to shine upon you. I'll see you right back here tomorrow. We'd like to thank our sponsors, including PreBorn. PreBorn has rescued over 400,000 babies from abortion and has seen over 100,000 commitments to Christ. Will you join PreBorn in continuing this good work? supporting young moms in crisis? Save a life today. Go to preborn.com/AFR
Jeff Chamblee the views and opinions expressed in this broadcast may not necessarily reflect those of the American Family association or American Family Radio.
Join Jessica Peck on the Dr. Nurse Mama Show on American Family Radio as she welcomes author, speaker, and media expert Misty Phillip. Together, they unpack the rapid rise of artificial intelligence, exploring the balance between embracing technological tools for productivity and setting firm biblical boundaries against digital deception, surveillance, and sycophantic AI companions. Learn how families can practice digital discipleship, protect their personal data, and stand firm in Christ in a changing world.
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